Book released by Defense Attorney, Nov 2015 #2

[Lilibet]

I respect your opinion, Hope. I too wish he had written a different book, or kept some things out of it. To me, some of it was very hurtful. I get where you're coming from, although I choose to have a different point of view about Nurmi. So yes, reasonable people can certainly disagree.

 

[Hope4More]

I respect your opinion, Hope. I too wish he had written a different book, or kept some things out of it. To me, some of it was very hurtful. I get where you're coming from, although I choose to have a different point of view about Nurmi. So yes, reasonable people can certainly disagree.

And I respect your opinion, as I hope you already know from other threads.

The day I remember best from both trials is the day when Nurmi accused Flores of sneaking into the evidence room to view the alleged *advertiser censored* on T's computer. We were hearing testimony by just tweets then.

I well remember feeling literally sick to my stomach, feeling overwhelmed by waves of absolute disgust and sense of lines crossed, of total violation. That was the day I lost all respect for JSS, as well as the day I came to utterly loath Nurmi, as well as the day when I gave myself a very long time out before I said anything that would make mods do so.

That was a long time ago, and thankfully I long ago stopped having emotional responses to anything or anyone involved other than Travis.

I genuinely do feel compassion for Nurmi, and I'm exceedingly grateful that he did his job well enough to deny her any chance of winning anything on appeals. Still doesn't mean I like the man.

Thanks for disagreeing agreeably.

 

[Soulsad]

I'm right there with you 'IfIMay'. For me it would take an apology to Travis AND his family for all of the smut he (L. Kirk) dragged Travis and his legacy through. Maybe if the apology included a heart-felt "Please forgive me Travis, I really am ashamed of how I defended this murderer and her case of lies and fabrications". Maybe then I could feel some compassion for his insecurity in penning this book. It's just his excuse for what he did. He needs to own his own shame. I am sorry for his cancer though. Travis wasn't perfect but he was a wonderful asset to humanity. His 'stepping stones' made him human. Wonderfully human. ♥

You are better than me, I guess. I don't see him wrestling any demons in all of this. He is just expanding his own ego and putting up his sarcastic wall to save himself from the quite right criticism he received. I don't see him turning any corner yet. When and if he does, I'll jump on the pity for him wagon. He chose how to take on his "noble" cause of saving a savage murderer. It was a PERSONAL choice, too. He chose to become death qualified and to take on these exact kind of cases and deal with the worst of the worst. So no hankie from me. I do hope his cancer is in remission, as I don't wish that hell on anyone. But that is as far as I can go. Maybe volume 2 or 3 of his diatribe will show some growth and accountability on his part for his contribution to that farce of a defense.

 

[MistyM]

the only thing about nurmi's book that kinda doesn't make sense is that he goes on and on about how manipulative 'ms. arias' was and is, and yet he doesn't admit to thinking travis was manipulated in any way by 'ms. arias'. in fact, i'd venture to say he is hinting that travis was the manipulator in that relationship. wow, what a force to be reckoned with, that travis alexander, master master manipulator... /rolls eyes.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

It's good to see that the dislike we have for LKN professionally, hasn't stopped us from having compassion for him during his cancer struggle. What a group we have on WS, it makes me proud to "know" you all. :grouphug:

 

[TexMex]

I have the Nurmi book. Whatever the motivation it has some interesting behind the scenes info. He really disliked Jodi immensely

 

[Madeleine74]

He chose how to take on his "noble" cause of saving a savage murderer. It was a PERSONAL choice, too. He chose to become death qualified and to take on these exact kind of cases and deal with the worst of the worst. So no hankie from me.

This is the quote I was responding to, along with the one below it that said, "He is a lot like his murderous client."

Nurmi is a character and one who does things many (myself included) didn't agree with. However, the reality is when you become a lawyer and you work in the field of criminal law you have only 2 choices: work for the state's DA, of which there are very few positions available, or work in some capacity as a defense attorney (either for the state or in private practice). In private practice you absolutely get to pick your own clients. When you work for the state you don't. Simple as that. Being 'death qualified' is just another level of qualification, it means you have experience and training in cases in which a client may be eligible for the DP. It doesn't mean you want evil to flourish in the world.

Unless you're someone who believes anyone charged with capital first degree murder should just be taken out back and immediately executed, that's just not how it's done in this country (but Pakistan will welcome you with open arms). Our constitution lays out the process and the rights under it and everyone is entitled to those same rights, even people who don't deserve it.

Nurmi is not JA. His tactics were strange and quite controversial, but you can't say he didn't give JA a vigorous defense. That very defense will keep her from ever being successful on appeal.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Hi Tex and Madeleine, good to see you both. :happydance: And just where have you been geevee? :thinking:

 

[TexMex]

:seeya: back atcha CA

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I have the Nurmi book. Whatever the motivation it has some interesting behind the scenes info. He really disliked Jodi immensely

I will be waiting with bated breath to read his letter to Ms. Arias in Volume 3, hopefully he lets her have it and says just exactly how he "feeeeels", maybe he will give her the final FU and say "you are the worst thing that has ever happened to me" If he reads here.... go ahead Nurmi, you have my permission. LOL.

 

[TexMex]

I will be waiting with bated breath to read his letter to Ms. Arias in Volume 3, hopefully he lets her have it and says just exactly how he "feeeeels", maybe he will give her the final FU and say "you are the worst thing that has ever happened to me" If he reads here.... go ahead Nurmi, you have my permission. LOL.

Lol. He sure didn't like Yreka or the Arias clan either. How "cold" and untidy their home was...they didn't seem to care about their daughter etc. He liked the grandparents a bit. Their home was a bit "warmer". Nurmi went in Jodi's little pink bedroom there and realized he was probably standing in the very place Jodi planned her murder trip.

 

[RickshawFan]

When Jodi insisted a few years back that Nurmi stay on as her attorney, I'll bet in some way or other she had her sights set on him. Perhaps she thought she could win him over as the one special person in her life. She got fixated on him, the way she did with Travis. Heck, he was a waaaaay bigger gravy train than Travis. She thought she could own him, cater to her every need, make him respond to her every phone call with bated breath, bring her gifts.... After all, she might claim, she got him his gravy train. This was like extortion. She ruined his reputation like she ruined Travis's.

Maybe this is why Nurmi can't appreciate how Jodi manipulated Travis: he doesn't want to believe that he, too, was one of Jodi's victims. He thinks he was too sharp to perceive what Jodi was up to, but he was schnookered.

 

[GigiG]

Lol. He sure didn't like Yreka or the Arias clan either. How "cold" and untidy their home was...they didn't seem to care about their daughter etc. He liked the grandparents a bit. Their home was a bit "warmer". Nurmi went in Jodi's little pink bedroom there and realized he was probably standing in the very place Jodi planned her murder trip.

BBM

That he oddly, later on, claims to be "heat of passion." Errr, can't have it both ways...

 

[TexMex]

BBM

That he oddly, later on, claims to be "heat of passion." Errr, can't have it both ways...

Well...self defense! He has to represent his client with the story they tell him, not his own theory. He absolutely knew who she was and what she did but the law requires him to provide her a defense

 

[Madeleine74]

Maybe this is why Nurmi can't appreciate how Jodi manipulated Travis: he doesn't want to believe that he, too, was one of Jodi's victims. He thinks he was too sharp to perceive what Jodi was up to, but he was schnookered.

In his book he claims he recognized right away that JA was trying to manipulate him as that's her M.O. I think Nurmi just couldn't relate to Travis on any level and since his job was to represent the murderess, he was only looking at the aspects that would help his defense. In terms of him not wanting to believe he too was one of JA's victims, that's why he wrote the book. He not only acknowledges it, he is using that as his "don't hate me, I suffered having to deal with her the whole time" schtick. Nurmi was and is married, so if JA thought he was going to be her 'next big thing,' that's kind of sad as he wasn't single to begin with.

 

[Madeleine74]

Well...self defense! He has to represent his client with the story they tell him, not his own theory. He absolutely knew who she was and what she did but the law requires him to provide her a defense

Thank you TexMex. Don't know why it's so hard for the role of defense to be understood or even that it's a required function within an adversarial system. It's like people expected Nurmi (or any defense attorney, really) to pack up their bags, quit their job, and leave the profession altogether to avoid JA and her tangled web of stories and lies. None of her lies helped her, she ended up in the very cell she was destined for from the beginning, for the rest of her pointless life.

 

[Tiger09]

I think Nurmi was too afraid to even attempt to relate to Travis. It's easy for us to sit here and judge him as trial watchers. We never interacted with her. I'm sure she's a million times creepier and more dangerous than we could even fathom. And Nurmi legally had to interact with her, sit by her, sit with her, defend her... every single day. Must say though that he tried his best to get away, and he tried his best to kill all of her appeals. I think his cancer diagnosis scared him even more and made him realize that time is short. He had to say what he had to say. So rock on, Nurmi. I may not always agree with you, but you are a human and I can't understand your position.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

 

[TexMex]

I think Nurmi was too afraid to even attempt to relate to Travis. It's easy for us to sit here and judge him as trial watchers. We never interacted with her. I'm sure she's a million times creepier and more dangerous than we could even fathom. And Nurmi legally had to interact with her, sit by her, sit with her, defend her... every single day. Must say though that he tried his best to get away, and he tried his best to kill all of her appeals. I think his cancer diagnosis scared him even more and made him realize that time is short. He had to say what he had to say. So rock on, Nurmi. I may not always agree with you, but you are a human and I can't understand your position.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

She was super creepy...he relates how she manipulated her mother in phone calls from prison.(he had access to the recorded calls) Demanding money for her commissary. How when he was in Yreka interviewing her folks that Jodi called and inserted herself so as to control that situation. How she got him on the phone and demanded he spend time consoling her cat. Called his office multiple times daily and got mad when he took an extra day or so on a family vacation.

 

[samspace070]

Madeleine, I don't think anyone here thinks or feels that. Really.

This was a nasty case with an exceptionally despicable defendant, and an especially thin-skinned defense attorney who began taking everything trial related very personally early on.


I think everyone still here understands full well what his professional obligations were and why he had no choice but to provide her with the defense of her choice, no matter how vicious and ugly.

I think we're all equally aware, though, that Nurmi went further then he needed to go, and that his concerted attacks on Flores and JM were personal and had to do with Nurmi defending his own wounded ego, not his client.

Amen to that Hope, I totally agree with your entire post.

 

[samspace070]

Hi back to you, Madeleine.


I followed your link which just kicks me to the top of this page, but I did reread all the posts here.

Perhaps the post you refer to is about Nurmi choosing to be DP- qualified, and so should have known what kind of client he's bound to have, and thus is undeserving of sympathy?

Your version is one interpretation of what was meant. Mine is different. I understood it to mean that Nurmi is asking for sympathy for the choices he made freely, and having made those choices freely should have understood he wasn't going to be beloved no matter what he did. Successful defenders of the most reviled don't get thrown ticker tape parades. If adulation is what is most important to Nurmi he made a very bad career choice indeed.

All of that is different- and more nuanced- than misunderstanding what his job was, and criticizing him for doing what he had to do.

And if I'm the one who is misunderstanding critiques of Nurmi, bad on me and please pipe up, those who I've misunderstood.

I have watched and followed a lot of defense attorneys thru the years and have great respect for a lot of them, Alan Dershowitz, Barry Scheck, Peter Neufeld, F Lee Bailey, and Tom Mesereau to name a few. There are many more but those come to mind first. Anan Dershowitz is brilliant and doesn't whine like Nurmi does. He is a true professional. I just personally didn't like the way Nurmi conducted himself in this trial. I didn't particularly like his co-counsel either. She was just as whinny as he was. I haven't liked too many prosecutors but Juan was different. I believe he really wanted justice for the victim. And I definitely believe he was very professional. I am sorry if my comments offends anyone but that is my opinion and I don't believe I am alone in it.