Bosma Murder Trial 01.18.16 - Jury selection process commences

[Kamille]

In the Dennis Oland trial all 14 jurors sat through the whole trial , then 2 were dismissed at the end of the trial , then the remaining 12 were sequestered and began deliberations

Deliberations only last a couple of days and slim chance that a jury member will become incapacitated.

Thanks Arnie. It also appears as though 16 were chosen originally and 2 were dismissed at the beginning, well actually one alternate replaced a juror prior to trial. And after looking up the case it appears that they were down to 13 jurors (one was dismissed during the trial due to "an association he had with someone involved in the case came to the attention of the court. prior to deliberations") and only one was dismissed in a random drawing prior to deliberations. That had to be tough.

So that case is a good example of what to expect in this one.

MOO


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-juror-discharged-saint-john-1.3256728

 

[Variant]

Section 644 of the Criminal Code explains discharge of Jurors.

In Canadian criminal trials, a jury can be reduced to 10 and still be able to deliberate and render a verdict.

The alternates chosen prior to trial are likely there to ensure that the chosen jurors do not have an issue that arises once they actually notify family and employers that they have, in fact been chosen to serve for a certain length and specific period of time. Or any other personal issues with any of the chosen jurors that comes up prior to trial. I would not be surprised to learn that the attorneys for both sides are permitted to check the backgrounds of chosen jurors and alternates, prior to trial, for any undisclosed issues that may have been missed during the selection process.

On an average jury therefore, while all 12 can deliberate at the close of arguments, 2 of them could really be considered "alternates" in that if 2 were to need to be discharged, the rest could continue. In this case, it appears that the judge has requested an extra 2.

ETA: According to Arnie's post about the Dennis Oland trial, it appears that if all 14 are left at the end of the trial, 2 will be dismissed by random draw before deliberations. Or at least that's what was done in that case. I guess we'll wait to hear what instruction the judge in this case has given. Not sure if he can even let the 14 jurors deliberate? Probably not. The Code says 12. It's probably a minimum of 10 and a maximum of 12.


MOO

http://yourlaws.ca/criminal-code-canada/644-discharge-juror

I was in a jury panel for a murder trial held in Toronto last April. My number wasn't drawn so consequently I was present through the full selection process. (This was the third time in twenty years that I've been called to jury duty; I was selected and served the first time).

Although it hasn't been reported this way, I expect that the selection process was similar to the one I observed, unless judges are allowed to set different rules for selection.

In this system jurors must also be approved by two of their peers, termed "triers", who are also on the jury. Triers approve or deny the potential juror after the defence and prosecution approve, so triers have the ultimate say in the selection before the judge selects. In theory this adds to fairness in that jurors are not only chosen by the legal system, but also by members of the public.

The first two jurors approved by the lawyers do not have triers to approve them; they are chosen solely to be the triers of subsequent jurors. Once the first set of triers have approved two more jurors, those two jurors become the triers of the next two and so on until 12 jurors and 2 alternates are selected. The original two jurors approved by the lawyers have not been approved by their peers and are dismissed from the jury.

The remaining 14 are required to attend throughout the trial, but the two alternates do not deliberate unless they are substituting for one of the other twelve.

In my case several potential jurors that were approved by both lawyers were rejected by their triers. I expect that this kind of detail would be part of the publication ban.

 

[MsSherlock]

Thanks Arnie. It also appears as though 16 were chosen originally and 2 were dismissed at the beginning, well actually one alternate replaced a juror prior to trial. And after looking up the case it appears that they were down to 13 jurors (one was dismissed during the trial due to "an association he had with someone involved in the case came to the attention of the court. prior to deliberations") and only one was dismissed in a random drawing prior to deliberations. That had to be tough.

So that case is a good example of what to expect in this one.

MOO


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-juror-discharged-saint-john-1.3256728

Thanks Kamille- that article explains it to a T. So right now there are 14 main Jurors and 2 alternates. The 14 main Jurors will sit thru the entire trial, but if any of them have dropped out between the time they were selected and the time the trial starts on Monday, one of the two alternates will take their place prior to the trial starting. Once the trial starts, if a Juror drops out, they're not replaced- the Jury just continues with the reduced number. If it drops to less than 10, then it's a mistrial. When it's time to deliberate and there are more than 12 Jurors, 12 are picked by random draw and sent to deliberate. I think I got it!!! MOO

 

[Arnie M]

Thanks Arnie. It also appears as though 16 were chosen originally and 2 were dismissed at the beginning, well actually one alternate replaced a juror prior to trial. And after looking up the case it appears that they were down to 13 jurors (one was dismissed during the trial due to "an association he had with someone involved in the case came to the attention of the court. prior to deliberations") and only one was dismissed in a random drawing prior to deliberations. That had to be tough.

So that case is a good example of what to expect in this one.

MOO


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/oland-trial-juror-discharged-saint-john-1.3256728

.

Its a good system to ensure there are enough jurors after a long trial

Unless you are the one being dismissed at the very end.

It would be like spending months studying intently for a crucial final exam

Then be told everything you learned has no value so go home .

 

[Variant]

.

Its a good system to ensure there are enough jurors after a long trial

Unless you are the one being dismissed at the very end.

It would be like spending months studying intently for a crucial final exam

Then be told everything you learned has no value so go home .

Some jurors would welcome the chance to get out of the deliberation phase, which in some cases could be contentious and take several more weeks or months : )

 

[Arnie M]

Some jurors would welcome the chance to get out of the deliberation phase, which in some cases could be contentious and take several more weeks or months : )

Haaaa .... so true , but then they should try to get disqualified during selection .... just kidding , it is actually a serious and important but thankless duty to be called up. I am sure glad I was not on the Oland Jury , I would have voted not guilty , even though I think he did it . Enough fumbles by police to create plenty of doubt. They say even the Judge was surprised by the guilty verdict. I know I was.

 

[swedie]

Just curious how things will unfold with the 16 person Jury on Monday. Will the 16 Jury members be in the Court room when the Judge calls Court to order and then he'll excuse the 2 alternates or will the alternate Jurors be dismissed just prior to Court?

Hi MsSherlock, yes I touched on this in my post 132 on this thread. I was surprised Justice Heeney who presided over MR's trial excused the two alternates prior to them getting any evidence. I did a google search and found, in Canada a jury can consist of 10 people should a couple jurors be excused or have to pardon themselves from serving jury duty once the trial is under way. Ten jurors is adequate for deliberations and deciding the accused guilt or innocence. So yes, it does make sense that Justice Heeney excused the two alternates. All 14 sat in and listened to the opening statement from the Crown, and at that point the judge had a good indication to know whether the jury of twelve would be able to handle their duties of serving in MR's trial. Had a couple jurors had to drop out for unexpected reasons, or be excuse by the judge, there would have still been enough jurors to constitute a full jury. HTH and MOO.

MR's trial, alternates excused.
Jury selection took place last week and 12 people were selected to serve, along with two alternates who will be dismissed once the evidence starts if they aren’t needed to fill in.

http://www.news1130.com/2012/03/05/tori-stafford-died-from-repeated-blows-to-the-head-jury-hears/

And this from Kamille's following post:
(2) Where in the course of a trial a member of the jury dies or is discharged pursuant to subsection (1), the jury shall, unless the judge otherwise directs and if the number of jurors is not reduced below ten, be deemed to remain properly constituted for all purposes of the trial and the trial shall proceed and a verdict may be given accordingly.

http://yourlaws.ca/criminal-code-canada/644-discharge-juror

 

[SnooperDuper]

.

Its a good system to ensure there are enough jurors after a long trial

Unless you are the one being dismissed at the very end.

It would be like spending months studying intently for a crucial final exam

Then be told everything you learned has no value so go home .

No no Arnie it would be like being told you are off the hook for the final exam and pass regardless!

When your vote counts, it weighs on you for the rest of your life.

Not everyone is dying to put in their vote.

 

[matou]

The Tim Bosma trial: Who are the players?

From Dellen Millard and Mark Smich to the Crown, defence and Bosma himself, here's who you need to know

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-who-is-who-1.3425638

 

[matou]

1,001 days from the disappearance of Tim Bosma to opening statements at trial

New article by Ann Brocklehurst.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...tim-bosma-to-opening-statements-at-trial.html

 

[SnooperDuper]

1,001 days from the disappearance of Tim Bosma to opening statements at trial

New article by Ann Brocklehurst.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...tim-bosma-to-opening-statements-at-trial.html

thanks

 

[atthelake]

I have not followed this case.

Thank you to all the people that are posting some of the best links and summary updates to catch us folks coming in so late in the process to get up to date!

Is there going to be a livestream link for this trial or just tweets?

:tyou:

 

[matou]

I have not followed this case.

Thank you to all the people that are posting some of the best links and summary updates to catch us folks coming in so late in the process to get up to date!

Is there going to be a livestream link for this trial or just tweets?

:tyou:

No live video stream here in Canada. There will be live tweets and articles to get us through this trial.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I have not followed this case.

Thank you to all the people that are posting some of the best links and summary updates to catch us folks coming in so late in the process to get up to date!

Is there going to be a livestream link for this trial or just tweets?

:tyou:

Twitter maybe:

Susan Clairmont
Molly Hayes
Ann Brocklehurst

 

[Tamarind]

I was just wondering if this thread can now be used as a general info thread and not just jury selection process posts? Thanks for all the general summary links above.

 

[deugirtni]

Twitter maybe:

Susan Clairmont
Molly Hayes
Ann Brocklehurst

Also tweeting (at least previously):
Adam Carter (CBC), and
Lisa Hepfner (CHCH TV)

 

[swedie]

Here are Twitter account links of some the reporters who will be tweeting tomorrow from the courtroom during the trial for Tim.

DM and MS have been charged with first degree murder of TB. DM has also been charged with forcible confinement and theft over $5000. The two additional charges against DM were laid prior to TB's charred remains being found, on DM's farmland property in Ayr, Ontario. Along with TB's remains, an animal incinerator was also found on DM's property. HTH and MOO.

https://twitter.com/AnnB03
https://twitter.com/susanclairmont?lang=en
https://twitter.com/mollyhayes
https://twitter.com/AdamCarterCBC?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
https://twitter.com/hefchchnews
https://twitter.com/MaryamSun1

 

[deugirtni]

I had forgotten about those additional charges for DM. I wonder why MS didn't also get charged with those?

 

[matou]

Have those other charges been dropped? Obviously they were holding charges until Bosma was found.

 

[cansleuther]

There was no mention of forcible confinement or theft when the charges were read out at the first day of jury selection - only first-degree murder.

[video=twitter;689104153637994497]https://twitter.com/MaryamSun1/status/689104153637994497[/video]