Bosma Murder Trial 03.03.16 - Day 19

[ArianeEmory]

I don't recall seeing one but maybe I missed it in the slides??

Sorry, storage *unit* (don't know why I typed shed):

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...3-02-16-Day-18/page10&p=12393446#post12393446

 

[Ontario Mom]

Hmm...

While Dellen’s lawyer has stated that Madeleine Burns and the Millard family are certain Wayne’s death was a suicide and not foul play, Mr. Sharif says he and others were shocked to learn after the Bosma murder that Wayne had not died from natural causes. Although he has never been contacted by police, Mr. Sharif said detectives talked to John Barnes, Millardair’s fomer director of maintenance and project risk management, for the first time last month.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/m...-bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it

 

[Abitcountry]

Curious...

[video=twitter;705529463698825216]https://twitter.com/AdamCarterCBC/status/705529463698825216[/video]

We're all assuming (anyway I think we all do?) that Tim's front seats were torched in the cornfield at the farm in Ayr. Yet, this image shows a non-burnt, dried out corn husk stuck in one of the seats. If in fact the seats were burnt while sitting on the corn (and pictures certainly give that appearance as there is burnt corn stalks flattened into the dirt) then it seems to me the only way a non-burnt corn stalk could have become wedged like that, is if the burnt seat was then dragged across the corn. If it was just picked straight up, any corn under it would have been burnt and wouldn't have stuck.

So now I have to wonder - was it just one of them at the farm torching the seats, and was it too heavy for just one person to pick it up and put it in the trailer (or wherever it was put to remove it from the location) so they had to drag it across the unburnt corn? Just thinking out loud.

May be that is the end that CN was caring and it got a little heavy !!!!

 

[jash]

One thing is really bothering me and I can't figure out the answer.

On the 9th when LE visited the hanger "to have a look around", one of the officers testified that as soon as they left, they had DM put on surveillance.

If that was the case, then they would have tailed DM that day when he went to pick up CN, move the Eliminator into the woods, and drop the trailer off at his mothers.

Yet, it was the dirt-bike guy who alerted the LE to the Eliminator in the woods, and a neighbour of MBs who alerted the police to the trailer (from what I can remember).

How could he have been under surveillance, yet the LE did not know of these things?

Police went to the hangar on May 10th, and arrested him later that day.

On May 10, police received information from "two reliable police sources from Toronto and Peel" that a man named Dellen Millard matched the tattoo description, and police put in a request for his phone records as well.

...

From there, police wanted to confirm whether Millard matched the description they had, so Tselepakis and Staff Sgt. Paul Hamilton were tasked to pay him a visit. Both detectives testified Wednesday about a visit to Millard at his hangar at the Region of Waterloo airport on May 10.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...d-cellphone-that-led-to-ambition-tattoo-clue/

 

[Kamille]

One thing is really bothering me and I can't figure out the answer.

On the 9th when LE visited the hanger "to have a look around", one of the officers testified that as soon as they left, they had DM put on surveillance.

If that was the case, then they would have tailed DM that day when he went to pick up CN, move the Eliminator into the woods, and drop the trailer off at his mothers.

Yet, it was the dirt-bike guy who alerted the LE to the Eliminator in the woods, and a neighbour of MBs who alerted the police to the trailer (from what I can remember).

How could he have been under surveillance, yet the LE did not know of these things?

LE visited DM on the 10th, after everything was moved.

HTH

 

[dar107]

Who would go into the barn and see an incinerator on a trailer and think of stealing it? :waitasec:

MOO

My thoughts exactky. I don't see much issue keeping it stored in a locked barn. Possibly tarped. Can't imagine what a theif in the night would think walking into that sight. Kinda hard to steal non-chalantly! Limited selection of anyone in that market I'd think. I think I'd be running back out the barn door if I was that theif!

 

[Kamille]

IIRC it was right around 6am on the 7th that AS and SS both got the text not to come to the hangar that day, at all, for any reason. If that's accurate, then I suppose it was because they were busy hosing out the truck and trying to clean up a huge mess.

He was in the area of the hangar when he sent the texts to SS and AJ at 5:55am on the 7th. Then he started sending more texts at 7:52am from the area of MS's home. So I assume he was dropping him off. Perhaps they had just come from the farm after burning the seats.

So after DM dropped him off, is likely when MS used his Ipad to message MM about her phone. So it appears that MS's phone was out of commission (dead battery?) and he probably tried to call MM with the landline phone at his Mom's house without being able to get through. That's why he messaged? Now if he was using a burner phone, it was probably a cheap flip phone that does not start working the minute you plug it in. Which is why the texts didn't start coming in until a bit later, likely after it was plugged in and charging for a while. Or perhaps she had the charger and he had to go get it. And the charging the phone is probably why he decided to use MM's phone for that day when he was back at the farm later that evening around 11:30pm with her phone.

MOO

 

[matou]

[h=1]Tim Bosma Murder Trial: The "bouncing" bullet theory of defence | EXHIBIT #86[/h]
[video=youtube;Do7reGBiL88]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do7reGBiL88&index=1&list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA[/video]

Published on Mar 3, 2016
What the jury saw at the Tim Bosma murder trial: Exhibit #86 — Forensic exam photos and a defense theory of a "bouncing" bullet casing. The possibility of a shifting shell casing, one that somehow may have moved from the front seat to the back seat of the pick-up truck in which prosecutors say Tim Bosma was shot dead, revealed the competing lines of defence separating the two men accused in the high-profile killing.

From Adrian Humphreys for The National Post

 

[ABro]

People who do very bad things are not necessarily psychopaths. They can just be evil. Psychopathy actually has a biological foundation, evil has a moral and spiritual one.

Psychopathy is a behavioural disorder. They renamed it sociopathy in the seventies (or maybe earlier) because it was social ie not biological. In the end, the name change just seemed to cause confusion.

I know there are now some claims psychopathy is biological but the nature/nurture pendulum swings back and forth. Right now, in the age of the genome, we are in a period where many people want to believe everything is biological/chemical/wiring.

There is, however, a very vigorous debate about this, especially outside North America, where they don't buy into this "it's all chemical" stuff.

 

[dar107]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...a-death-faces-2-more-murder-charges-1.2605741

"A former acquaintance of Millard's, who says she had attended almost two dozen parties at his home in the Toronto suburb of Etobicoke, told CBC News that Millard and Noudga were dating.

"But [Millard] and Laura [Babcock] were just fooling around," she said. "He kept Laura around and gave her drugs."

The source asked CBC not to use her name because she said she was "terrified" of Millard. She described many of his parties as fuelled by cocaine and the drug MDMA and recalled several times when large brawls broke out.

"It's disturbing," she said. "I've been alone in a house with him."

Maybe the girl in the tool box pic?
This gels with the the theory of MS being an addict and DM feeding that addiction and using it to his advantage. Has the been talk of DM doing drugs as well or was he just sitting back trying to look like the cool rich guy host with the most? My line of thinking is that DM used and abused and dangled the drugs to get MS to do whatever he wanted him to do. Heavy addicts will do just about anything for the next fix. Not excusing MS in anyway. Just food for thought.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I feel like we would have seen or heard about more drug paraphernalia. Neither DM or MS look like meth users (well, maybe MS a little, before arrest), and real addicts would have had drugs/pipes/etc on them or in their bedrooms. We've seen how disorganized they all are. I don't recall anything but weed stuff.

Not saying they didn't have hard drugs at times, just saying we've seen no evidence of addiction.

 

[ABro]

If my memory is correct, the dirt biker saw the incinerator in the trees after DM and CN moved it there. He said he hadn't seen it there before.
MOO

Your memory is correct. I should have made that clearer. He saw it on the 10th but had never seen it before.

 

[Yendys]

I'm not sure where the incinerator was stored as a rule, but I'm not sure the doors on the barn are tall enough to get it inside. At least not the front doors. Can't remember if there are any photos of the back of the barn. That's where the larger doors usually are on these old barns. MOO

 

[Gumshew]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...a-death-faces-2-more-murder-charges-1.2605741

"A former acquaintance of Millard's, who says she had attended almost two dozen parties at his home in the Toronto suburb of Etobicoke, told CBC News that Millard and Noudga were dating.

"But [Millard] and Laura [Babcock] were just fooling around," she said. "He kept Laura around and gave her drugs."

The source asked CBC not to use her name because she said she was "terrified" of Millard. She described many of his parties as fuelled by cocaine and the drug MDMA and recalled several times when large brawls broke out.

"It's disturbing," she said. "I've been alone in a house with him."

Maybe the girl in the tool box pic?
This gels with the the theory of MS being an addict and DM feeding that addiction and using it to his advantage. Has the been talk of DM doing drugs as well or was he just sitting back trying to look like the cool rich guy host with the most? My line of thinking is that DM used and abused and dangled the drugs to get MS to do whatever he wanted him to do. Heavy addicts will do just about anything for the next fix. Not excusing MS in anyway. Just food for thought.

IMO, MS was dealing dope himself. Maybe not the hard stuff but weed indeed. Someone supplied him with weed to sell and I don't believe it was DM. Of course if he was into coke or such, perhaps DM was his supplier for that. One thing to understand is that unless you are growing weed yourself or are clandestinely flying in your personal stash of coke from somewhere, your supply and supplier are always connected to gangland. Again, JMO about what DM and MS might have been up to.

 

[Bsafe]

Here is my theory on that.

After allegedly doing what they did at the hangar, they were probably close to dawn, with the airport "waking up" so to speak. They took the truck, eliminator, et al to the farm, with the intention of burning the seats in the incinerator. Being the dummies they are (IMO) they didn't realize that the seats wouldn't come apart seperately. Failing to get them into the incinerator, they set them ablaze in the cornfield. All IMO MOO

Based on the evidence and testimony given so far, I suspect next week is when we'll be hearing about video evidence at the hangar I have mixed feelings about that. Good because the jury will get to actually see DM and MS operating the incinerator at the hangar in the middle of the night, the same night Tim went missing... but bad, for the same reason.

As for where it was stored, I'm guessing it was inside the barn at the farm in Ayr. While it was delivered to the hangar initially, IIRC phone pings on the night Tim went missing show these heathens going from Brantford to Ayr (to collect the incinerator) then back to the hangar. Video surveillance also backs up it was towed in.

As for the spatter expert today, it makes a lot of sense that the inside of Tim's truck was hosed out AT the hangar, and that was the reason for the text not to come in, for "any reason". (As it was still sitting there the next day).

The one thing I'm still very confused about, are the burnt seats.
The seats were already out of the truck by the time AJ saw the truck in the hangar on the 8th, so when did they burn them at the farm? It had to be sometime between the early morning hours of the 7th and the morning of the 9th when AJ came in to work again and the truck was gone Since I don't think anyone drove that truck anywhere without seats, I'm guessing the seats were put in another vehicle (with a tarp) and taken to the farm to be burned. Once that was done, the truck and the seats and the tarps were all put in the trailer and parked at MB's house. Again, all guesswork on that particular timeline and I don't even know if the phone pings can pin it down.

moo.

 

[billandrew]

IMO, MS was dealing dope himself. Maybe not the hard stuff but weed indeed. Someone supplied him with weed to sell and I don't believe it was DM. Of course if he was into coke or such, perhaps DM was his supplier for that. One thing to understand is that unless you are growing weed yourself or are clandestinely flying in your personal stash of coke from somewhere, your supply and supplier are always connected to gangland. Again, JMO about what DM and MS might have been up to.

I'll bet someone like MWJ would have be an ideal supplier for DM. At least for drugs like cocaine or MDMA.

 

[dar107]

I feel like we would have seen or heard about more drug paraphernalia. Neither DM or MS look like meth users (well, maybe MS a little, before arrest), and real addicts would have had drugs/pipes/etc on them or in their bedrooms. We've seen how disorganized they all are. I don't recall anything but weed stuff.

Not saying they didn't have hard drugs at times, just saying we've seen no evidence of addiction.

True. However we still have lots to hear about. We have mostly heard about the various electronic devices that were found. And some items may not even relevant to the trial and not be mentioned. Even if MS room at home was a pigsty I doubt he would leave crack pipes out in the open with his mom able to walk in anytime. I just feel I see addiction when I see his pics based on personal experience with addicts. Could tie in with LBs demise as well. Maybe a party nite gone way wrong.

 

[Abitcountry]

I feel like we would have seen or heard about more drug paraphernalia. Neither DM or MS look like meth users (well, maybe MS a little, before arrest), and real addicts would have had drugs/pipes/etc on them or in their bedrooms. We've seen how disorganized they all are. I don't recall anything but weed stuff.

Not saying they didn't have hard drugs at times, just saying we've seen no evidence of addiction.

I know aspirin and Buckley's gel caps .....nothing about recreational drugs.

So I am asking is there an illicit drug that is addictive and known to create in the user behaviours that DM is manifesting---inflated sense of personal importance or self worth and delusions of grandeur....disregard for the law and fellow human beings...leader and manipulator of others etc.

It is obvious that MS is strung out...has lost his ambition etc etc etc.

I am vaguely aware that different drugs have different effects and effects can vary over time.

 

[Kamille]

Okay so if DM and MS left the hangar around 5:55am on May 7th to take the seats and the incinerator to the farm, it's a 19 minute drive according to google maps. Probably a little quicker when you're driving faster than the speed limit. So let's say they get to the farm around 6:15am and set up the area to burn the seats. So perhaps around 6:30am they are ready to be lit. Fits in with the general time frame neighbour said he saw the smoke.

Now they are heading back to MS's house, a 50 minute ride, getting there around 7:45am and then it appears that DM headed back to his own home according to the cell pings. He was there by around 9am. So if he was going to be driving around that day or perhaps getting some rest, they likely left the burned seats at the farm. Maybe left them there in the field to cool down. Or dragged them to the barn. The next pings show DM back at the hangar around 8:45pm and then MS using MM's phone at the farm around 11:30pm, probably picking up the burned seats to take back to the hangar. I would assume through all of this that they are driving together with DM picking up MS again on his way back to the hangar. There is a note that DM's phone "did not communicate" that evening after 8:55pm (when he sent a text from the hangar) so I supposed he may have turned it off.

MOO

 

[JPC]

Yes, it is very Shroud of Turin like. I bet it was the plank they put the body on to transport it from the truck to the Eliminator.

My theory has always been that this board was maybe where LBs corpse was stored prior to incineration. She may have been out at that farm on the board, wrapped in a tarp. LE may not have a body or even bones like TB but they may have DNA from this board. Could be a long shot but has been my theory for some time. RIP LB