Bosma Murder Trial 04.05.16 - Day 30

[Just4TB]

He is probably drawing an MA salary and living with MB but sadly SS is no longer on payroll to clean up his accidents. Sorry, bad joke.

:rolling:

 

[Errrr]

MOO, perhaps DM was kind to his dog because it showed him adoration. He rescued it, took care of it & it happily followed him everywhere. If you offer the comforts & necessities of life, kind attention, & companionship to most pets, they will worship you. The problem is, it seems DM also treated his human inner circle the same way...as his own "pets". He used comforts such as money, lodging, drugs etc, to make his inner circle dependent upon him. However, he expected them to fall in line, do what he wanted & follow him around (like a dog) adoring him & obeying.

Dogs are babe magnets.

 

[puppyraiser]

Are Wed, Thurs and Fri legal argument days, no jury present?

 

[mskrisc]

IMO, it's all about intimidation. DM is still expecting that he has some sort of power and control over MS, IMO. They say it takes 3 months to get over an addiction, so maybe the sudden break and long separation between DM and MS broke the spell that MS was under and he longer feels intimidated or controlled by DM.

MS has had a major reality check and he seems to grasp that, whereas DM is still living in a land of his own imagination where anything he wants is possible, IMO. DM has no grasp on the harsh reality he's facing, IMO. Unlike DM's usual flights of fancy, and freedom from rules and regulations, his new reality will be a never-ending story, but it will certainly be no fairy tale, IMO.

All MOO.

Couldn't agree more! A lot of entitled rich kid mixed in with some psychopathic traits! IMO of course

 

[Kamille]

Are Wed, Thurs and Fri legal argument days, no jury present?

I think it's only Thursday and Friday this week. I believe that BD will be back on the stand in the morning.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

And if I am not mistaken, isn't Smich Jewish?

No I believe it's Czech.

 

[Satchie]

I understand that AC's date on this blog post is incorrect, but he did mention that they "rolled up" in the Yukon. That would not have been on the 9th. And I'd think if it were the red truck with a large trailer in tow that Daly saw, the Crown would have elicited this information.

Is it possible that DM dropped MS and MM off at Montrose on the 10th after visiting with them at the apartment? I'm sure they all would have been very tense that day.

MOO

ETA: Added AC's blog post

That's odd, AC is the only one used the word Yukon, all the other reporters say truck:

Moodie questioning witness:

"I just remember the truck zooming by, Mark hopping out, running into the house, Marlena coming back out and telling us to scram," Daly says. I'm not sure about what date this pertains to.
by Adam Carter 2:41 PM

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Daly refreshing memory by going over witness statement. Remembers Dell's truck dropping Mark off at house, Marlena coming out with weed.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Says he remembers DM's truck dropping Mark off. Mark ran inside. Sent Marlena out with my (Daly's) weed...

Pillay cross examination tweets:

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 9s9 seconds ago
Daly waiting for Smich to buy marijuana from him the week of May 6. Dell's truck rolls up, Smich goes straight into house, no words.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 11s12 seconds ago
He's recalling in May 2013 a night when Smich blew past him and out of Millard's truck #TimBosma

 

[mskrisc]

I know many Canadians, including my mother in law, that *always* call our minivan a "truck". Drives me nuts, lol.

Lol! I call my Expedition a truck ...

 

[deugirtni]

Originally Posted by CJPRINCESS

Nope I'm still seeing it.

On May 7, Smich told Daly "I f--ked up." "He said it over and over again, yes," Daly says.

by*Adam Carter*4:02 PM

Pillay asking about May 6, when Daly saw Smich rolling up with Millard and Marlena in Millard's Yukon. Smich "blew past him," and went into*the house, court hears

http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/Th...April_5?Page=2

That's the live blog. The poster said it was deleted from Twitter not Scribblelive.

I could be mistaken, but I get the impression that AC is unable to make edits/corrections to his live blog after the fact. I have noticed other errors have remained uncorrected, and one time I noticed there had been an edit which stated it had been made by CBC as opposed to AC.. at the time, that confused me, because I was wondering why CBC would edit out something that AC had typed.

 

[deugirtni]

The "two gun" theory isn't holding up for me. I'm not disputing the testimony today, but the Crown's opening statements claim that DM dropped off the toolbox to a friend, and then after his arrest this toolbox was obtained by Smich. If there were two guns, whose gun was in the box? Were there two guns in the box?

We don't know who originally owned the toolbox, but there is a photo of it in DM's house from DM's computer.

Right now I'm leaning toward there being one murder weapon in this case. DM was in possession of it after the murder, but MS managed to get it after DM's arrest. JMO.

I think there was only 1 murder weapon, but there seem to for sure have been 2 guns mentioned now.

AC Live Blog:
Goodman cautions the jury that they shouldn't be considering that another firearm was mentioned in terms of reaching a verdict in this case.
1:08 PM

 

[deugirtni]

Agree.
I also suspect that MS was afraid because DM was now out of reach, MS had lost his confidant master.
In MS mind at the time, he would think it very likely that DM was pinning the entire thing on MS alone.
Although we know that DM clammed up, MS would not have known that at the time.

Moo, but I think the 2 (DM and MS) already had made a pact that if anything were to come down, the 2 would remain silent. Neither one of them spoke to anyone once they were arrested. Both of them made a point of stating to reporters that they were not talking to *anyone*. When MS was being arrested, he yelled at his gf to keep her mouth shut.

I get the impression that it was a 'philosophy' of DM's, that he thought about all of this in advance and planned it all, based on NOT ever getting caught.. ie showing up at testdrives without a vehicle to be recognized, purchasing a phone with fake contact info, using the burner phone only for testdrive/auto interactions, using a fake name during interactions with the autosellers), and part of that was that if nobody said a word, there would be nothing to base charges or a conviction on. He just failed to think about all of the possibilities, such as choosing the wrong guy, one who was so clean that police got right on the case, rather than waiting at least the usual 24 hours in an adult MP case; the photographic memory of Igor to notice that little tattoo and be able to pick MS from a photo lineup; if not for those 2 things, DM's theory may well have been correct.

If this case hadn't been taken so seriously right from the get-go, which I believe was a mere HOUR or so after TB left his property, it wouldn't have been plastered all over the news so early, and AJ wouldn't therefore have even known about it, and therefore wouldn't have photographed the VIN and etc. The truck could very well have been painted as scheduled before it even hit the news, and then in hindsight, if AJ had wondered, hmm, that black truck that I saw and then it was painted red.. I wonder...., but by then there may have been not enough proof. When DM was spending his first months in jail, and saying crazy things like, 'they might as well have said I went to the moon' (from memory)... he was thinking according to his plan, and NOT according to the realities which included the parts he didn't account for. That seemed difficult for him to wrap his head around the fact that things had changed, because things moved SO fast, it allowed LE to obtain all kinds of evidence that otherwise may not have been possible to obtain.

It is interesting to me that even with all of the MANY individual pieces of incriminating circumstantial evidence that make up the massive totality of evidence.. it seems the most incriminating is felt to be the testimony of the people the 2 associated with beforehand and immediately afterward, and their words (note that today, after Daly's testimony, some people on WS are suddenly declaring their opinion that MS was the shooter, based on his words). And it seems that long after DM was arrested, and even though he was ordered to have no communication with those people who could most incriminate him (and MS), DM was sitting in the slammer trying to break the rules to communicate with them regardless, and devise ways for their words to not be incriminating, trying to continue his tradition of controlling things and people to do what he wanted, even going so far as to put others in his service to try to get (at least) one of them to CHANGE what he had already said to police.

All moo

 

[swedie]

I'm curious what others think. Up until now, 99% percent of all the speculation around motive, on this forum, has had to do with DM. We've all had lots of theories in regard to DM's motives.

However, what about MS's motives? Clearly DM would be getting the truck in the end, so that was the payoff for the risk he took. But what was MS going to get out of this? Not the truck, that's for sure.

Was DM going to pay him? Otherwise, what could possibly be worth the risk for MS?

The only thing I can think of, other than monetary compensation, is that MS was so under DM's spell, that he marched to DM's drum no matter how ludicrous the idea or risk might be.

I have a feeling that even though motive need not be proven in this case, Dungey will ultimately try to appeal to the fact that MS had no motive here, and that he was ultimately the victim of DM's mind control.

What say you?

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 13h13 hours ago
"These guys don't **** around, they're going to find me. He said he f---ked up," Daly says about a conversation with Smich.


"These guys." SS and AJ? So far from what we've heard during trial, it doesn't sound like MS knew SS and AJ very well other than from seeing them around the hangar once in a while and some small talk. Did DM tell MS if he got out of line "these guys" would find him? Maybe DM had other friends who MS feared?

MS telling BD he f&%$ed up. Sounds to me MS was saying be regretted going along with DM for the test drive because he didn't know a murder was going to happen. His erratic and paranoid behaviour, that would be normal behaviour for someone in his position IMO. Especially not knowing if DM threw him under the bus right after his arrest. Could MS have meant he F'ed up by going and picking up the gun and DM's friend (who turned the toolbox/gun over to him) now knew MS was involved? Did MS confide in DM's friend and he regretted telling him? Or he F'ed up by giving his gun to DM sometime prior to TB's murder? It could have many meaning but I wouldn't necessarily say it goes to prove that he was the shooter, as some seemed to have jump to that conclusion already based on those three words "I f&$%ed up." ALL MOO.

 

[swedie]

We also know MS has been charged with LB's murder. How involved he was in her case, we'll have to wait and see. But even if MS wasn't the shooter in TB case, he had LB's murder hanging over his head. How would he be able to go to LE and tell them he was with DM on a test drive and DM murdered the owner? He figured if he did go to LE, DM could throw him under the bus in LB's murder for snitching on him. IF MS didn't shoot either LB and TB, he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. DM probably had some sort of evidence to hold over MS in regards to LB's murder. MOO.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, the crown and the families all know whose on each witness list. Sometimes, late witnesses are interviewed and added to prove a point or dismiss something that was testified too. But the lawyers are usually still given a bit of time to interview the witness so they know what to expect.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe the defence has an obligation to produce its witness list (if any) to the Crown in advance.

 

[deugirtni]

It was confusing even if you were in court listening to everything so I can only imagine what it would be like following it on Twitter.

I noticed on another occasion while in court that when Sachak was doing his cross of SH, it was similar in that times/dates/events were being mismashed together during many leading questions.. I got a different impression of what had been said, than what was reported by some tweeters that day. I could be mistaken in what I heard, but it made me wonder if the defence lawyers for DM do this type of thing deliberately to suit whatever purpose they are trying to show at that time. Same thing for Daly's testimony in that if MS was all paranoid and saying that he f'd up on the day after the murder, it could *be perceived* to have a different meaning than if he said samething on the day/after DM was arrested.

I wonder if the defence seems to lead the questions to deliberately confuse dates/times/events to make their desired point, or if the defence is just going about their cross in a scattered way.

Also, imo, I believe this is one downside in the 'tweeting' of a trial. The reporters are listening and watching intently, while at the same time, trying to type their tweets, but to fit in only x many characters. It is obviously impossible to get down every word, and tweeting is not a transcript of what was said during the entire day in front of the jury. It would be easy to type something that was said at a given second in tiime, but find that overall, in the context of say, an entire paragraph, something could have been taken out of context. In that regard, it seems that old fashioned note-taking and then a story written afterwards which encompasses all of the notes, might give a more accurate overall portrayal of the day's testimonies. MOO.

Frankly, I have to hand it to the reporter tweeters who have this task of listening intently, tweeting, watching their typos, getting their info accurate, not getting names mixed up while they're typing, knowing who is speaking, watching for nuances and glances, and generally getting an overall accurate brain-fill of everything that was said on a given day. How the heck does AC do it when he's got to do both a live blog AND tweets, or does he just duplicate them, but even so, there is another task in itself, to choose which ones to copy and paste? And then he's also out there in the streets getting his own photos. God this guy is going to need a large vacation when this trial is over! He is certainly an asset to his employer to be able to multi-task the way he does! Again, moo.

 

[HackD]

Shotgun ammunition is generally referred to as shells, while rifle and handgun rounds are referred to as bullets. Technically, the bullet is the projectile that leaves the casing. Shotgun shells generally contain pellets, which are occasionally referred to as bullets. Both SG shells and HG bullets can be referred to as "rounds" or "loads". All can be referred to as "ammunition". Phew!!

I assume you meant "Zombie" shells, per the Zombie handgun bullets referenced in BD testimony today.
Yes, Zombie loads are available for shotguns.

http://www.hornady.com/store/12-Ga-00-Z-MAX

Hope this helps!

As far as lethal rounds go, there is also a slug load available. 12 Ga. shells pictured.

 

[ABro]

I noticed on another occasion while in court that when Sachak was doing his cross of SH, it was similar in that times/dates/events were being mismashed together during many leading questions.. I got a different impression of what had been said, than what was reported by some tweeters that day. I could be mistaken in what I heard, but it made me wonder if the defence lawyers for DM do this type of thing deliberately to suit whatever purpose they are trying to show at that time. Same thing for Daly's testimony in that if MS was all paranoid and saying that he f'd up on the day after the murder, it could *be perceived* to have a different meaning than if he said samething on the day/after DM was arrested.

I wonder if the defence seems to lead the questions to deliberately confuse dates/times/events to make their desired point, or if the defence is just going about their cross in a scattered way.

Also, imo, I believe this is one downside in the 'tweeting' of a trial. The reporters are listening and watching intently, while at the same time, trying to type their tweets, but to fit in only x many characters. It is obviously impossible to get down every word, and tweeting is not a transcript of what was said during the entire day in front of the jury. It would be easy to type something that was said at a given second in tiime, but find that overall, in the context of say, an entire paragraph, something could have been taken out of context. In that regard, it seems that old fashioned note-taking and then a story written afterwards which encompasses all of the notes, might give a more accurate overall portrayal of the day's testimonies. MOO.

Frankly, I have to hand it to the reporter tweeters who have this task of listening intently, tweeting, watching their typos, getting their info accurate, not getting names mixed up while they're typing, knowing who is speaking, watching for nuances and glances, and generally getting an overall accurate brain-fill of everything that was said on a given day. How the heck does AC do it when he's got to do both a live blog AND tweets, or does he just duplicate them, but even so, there is another task in itself, to choose which ones to copy and paste? And then he's also out there in the streets getting his own photos. God this guy is going to need a large vacation when this trial is over! He is certainly an asset to his employer to be able to multi-task the way he does! Again, moo.

I don't think it's a defence tactic. Also, y'day the date confusion started with the Crown. I think the fundamental problem is Daly doesn't remember the dates.

The live tweeting reporters are doing a fantastic job, I agree. But it's inevitable when they do that there will be mistake or two. It's the nature of the beast.

I think AC uses a Scribblelive feature that automatically tweets. I agree with you -- his work is amazing.

 

[ABro]

I could be wrong, but I don't believe the defence has an obligation to produce its witness list (if any) to the Crown in advance.

Off the top of my head, I believe the defence has to give notice of alibi and expert witnesses.

 

[Inspector_North]

I give Daly credit for coming clean. However, if DM & MS would have used separate burner phones for each test drive, and DM covered his tattoo, the only person so far that would have done the right thing without LE pressure was AJ. Even he delayed providing LE information.

Hats off to AJ. This has torn his family apart for doing the right thing.

MOO

 

[Gibson67]

That's odd, AC is the only one used the word Yukon, all the other reporters say truck:

Moodie questioning witness:

"I just remember the truck zooming by, Mark hopping out, running into the house, Marlena coming back out and telling us to scram," Daly says. I'm not sure about what date this pertains to.
by Adam Carter 2:41 PM

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Daly refreshing memory by going over witness statement. Remembers Dell's truck dropping Mark off at house, Marlena coming out with weed.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Says he remembers DM's truck dropping Mark off. Mark ran inside. Sent Marlena out with my (Daly's) weed...

Pillay cross examination tweets:

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 9s9 seconds ago
Daly waiting for Smich to buy marijuana from him the week of May 6. Dell's truck rolls up, Smich goes straight into house, no words.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 11s12 seconds ago
He's recalling in May 2013 a night when Smich blew past him and out of Millard's truck #TimBosma

wow very confusing..how do they expect the Jury to understand when they don't connect the dots and clarify things for them.