Bosma Murder Trial 06.13.16 - Day 60 - Charge to jury - Day 2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nickandnora said:
Legal aid would not come near the expense of this case, they pay very minimum, that is why many lawyers do not accept legal aid case
Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't have the figures, but lawyers who choose or are assigned to legal aid cases in Ontario receive much more compensation than Public Defenders in the U.S. do. Just wanted to point that out for any of our U.S. WSers. [emoji4]

MOO
 
"The only words or actions of direct evidence from the time of the killings comes from Smich," Goodman says. He adds that they also have to address his credibility as a witness.
by Adam Carter 1:58 PM

Goodman is giving a highly typical example here. The jury is following along on their decision trees.
by Adam Carter 1:59 PM

Goodman says the jury can conclude that the two accused haven't participated in this crime at all, as a principal or as an aider/abettor.
by Adam Carter 2:04 PM
 
molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 8m8 minutes ago
Goodman reminds jury that "the only direct evidence from the time of the killing comes from Smich." #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 1m1 minute ago
Goodman tells jurors if they are are unsure of the exact role of an accused, they can consult another supplementary Decision Tree. #Bosma
 
MrsThreadgoode said:
Sorry, I don't have the figures, but lawyers who choose or are assigned to legal aid cases in Ontario receive much more compensation than Public Defenders in the U.S. do. Just wanted to point that out for any of our U.S. WSers. [emoji4]

MOO
Click to expand...

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...richard-wills-over-13-million-legal-bill.html

his laywers successfully billed LAO 1.3 million dollars for his case. The only reason it was a problem was because he abused the system and applied for the aid fraudulently.
 
Goodman now moving to his fourth decision tree. He cautions the jury they can only use this tree if they're convinced one of the two murdered Bosma, but they're not sure which one it was.
by Adam Carter 2:05 PM

The first question in this tree asks if the jury is satisfied that one of the accused was either the principal or aider/abettor.
by Adam Carter 2:06 PM

If the answer to that question is no, the jury is using the wrong tree, Goodman says.
by Adam Carter 2:07 PM
 
molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 2m2 minutes ago
This Tree asks whether they are satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that DM or MS was was EITHER a principal or aider/abettor. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 1m1 minute ago
"This decision tree is only to be used in the unique circumstances that the accused under consideration... (1/2) #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 1m1 minute ago
"...either murdered the victim, or aided or abetted his co-accused...but you are not sure which." #Bosma (2/2)
 
canadiangirl said:
molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 2m2 minutes ago
This Tree asks whether they are satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that DM or MS was was EITHER a principal or aider/abettor. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 1m1 minute ago
"This decision tree is only to be used in the unique circumstances that the accused under consideration... (1/2) #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 1m1 minute ago
"...either murdered the victim, or aided or abetted his co-accused...but you are not sure which." #Bosma (2/2)
Click to expand...

BBM Isn't that the exact scenario they are faced with? Help me here...what am I missing? MOO
 
meterclicks said:
The first question in this tree asks if the jury is satisfied that one of the accused was either the principal or aider/abettor.
by Adam Carter 2:06 PM

If the answer to that question is no, the jury is using the wrong tree, Goodman says.
by Adam Carter 2:07 PM
Click to expand...

Given the evidence against DM, this seems to be quite a suitable tree for the Jury to climb.
 
Goodman now going back to his second decision tree about aiding and abetting.
by Adam Carter 2:08 PM

The third question on this tree is at the time one of the accused killed Bosma, did the other person know the first intended to commit murder, and did that person encourage or help? If the answer is no, the verdict is guilty of second degree murder. If the answer is yes, it's guilty of first degree murder.
by Adam Carter 2:10 PM

Goodman is still explaining that question. He's doing so very, very thoroughly.
by Adam Carter 2:14 PM
 
Bellers said:
https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...richard-wills-over-13-million-legal-bill.html

his laywers successfully billed LAO 1.3 million dollars for his case. The only reason it was a problem was because he abused the system and applied for the aid fraudulently.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for posting this article. I had forgotten about this.

"Wills’ behaviour at his preliminary hearing was so outrageous no lawyer was willing to take his case at regular legal aid rates, then about $93 an hour. The judge ordered the attorney general to fund the cost of his defence at an enhanced rate of $200 an hour."

(In regard to questions re MS and possibility of his receiving Legal Aid, comparing LAO rates to public defenders' compensation in U.S. up thread ... for interest sake only.)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I know that it is still locked until deliberations start but it made me happy to see the "Verdict Watch" thread waiting and ready to go.
 
Goodman is again stressing that first-degree murder is only an available verdict if the jury believes there was planning and deliberation.
by Adam Carter 2:16 PM

Goodman now going back to his fourth decision tree. The second question there is has the Crown proven that at the time one of the accused committed murder, did the other know he was going to commit planned and deliberate murder, an that he intended to participate. If the answer is no, it's second degree murder. If it's yes, it's first-degree.
by Adam Carter 2:20 PM

Goodman now moving to decision tree three: Common Unlawful Purpose. He thanks them for their patience.
by Adam Carter 2:22 PM
 
Adam Carter seems to be the only one tweeting. Molly and Susan are both pretty silent. Sorry folks!
 
DeepWoodsOff said:
BBM Isn't that the exact scenario they are faced with? Help me here...what am I missing? MOO
Click to expand...

Decision tree #3 seems to be the way to go, but the judge is giving the jury all of the options - leaving it up to them, for eg., to believe every word out of Smich's mouth and decide that the facts of the case are that DM shot Tim.

I don't believe they will decide those are the facts, and so will need to use #3 decision tree.

MOO
 
Goodman says the jury doesn't need to use this tree if an accused is found guilty of first or second degree murder already.
by Adam Carter 2:23 PM

The first question in this tree is, has the Crown proven that one of the accused agreed that they would steal Bosma's pickup and help each other. If the answer is no, they're not guilty.
by Adam Carter 2:24 PM
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 69 more.
Total: 2,437 (members: 70, guests: 2,367)

Online statistics

Members online
70
Guests online
2,367
Total visitors
2,437
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
602,008
Messages
18,133,181
Members
231,206
Latest member
habitsofwaste
Back
Top