Boulder police chief exonerates Fleet and Priscilla White in death of JonBenet Ramsey

[madeleine]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/18/chief-who-took-over-jonbenet-inquiry-to-retire/

BOULDER, Colo. (AP) - Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner, who took over the department in the aftermath of the 1996 JonBenet Ramsey slaying, said Tuesday he will retire on April 1.

 

[bettybaby00]

I haven't been on in a bit, and am now just reading about this!!! Interesting and significant, IMO. Especially with another pro-Ramsey book on the way.

this fact alone tells me FW witnessed something very important (IMO re JR's behavior and him finding JB).the fact that the Ramsey team went straight to FW to breathe down his neck instead of looking for the intruder says it all,no?

I think he knows a good deal that we haven't been made aware of. Just what was revealed in Kolar's book was profound for me. For some, the info might have already been out there, but up until his book I had only read online info (a lot), and his book was a great primer for the facts in the case. As for FW:

*he had already looked in the wine cellar, and saw no body. Yes he didn't turn on the light,(he reported being unable to locate the switch), "but he did step into the room and saw nothing" (1710) but when he witnessed JR discovering the body, she was close to the door. Was she moved during the unaccounted time by JR? (By moved I mean closer to the door, not that she was somewhere completely different.)

*and speaking of light, JR was a little too enthusiastic as he started screaming over JRBs discovery "immediately upon opening the door, before he flipped the light switch" (1710)

*before Burke leaves with FW (only minutes after purportedly being awakened) officer French tried to "interview Burke," but was quickly told by JR "the boy was asleep during the entire event, and had no information for officers." (530) yet john also told first responders "Burke was still asleep and had not been awakened to determine if he knew anything." So how does john know whether or not Burke "knew anything" (481)? Also, notice he doesn't say Burke didn't hear anything, just that he doesn't have info for the officers, and he also says Burke was asleep during the "entire event," not just asleep, but asleep during the entire event. Kinda interesting choice of words IMO

*FW witnessed/experienced BRs behavior 1st hand. Most significant IMO... After being awakened/summoned from his room and told "your sister is missing, and you're going to spend the day at the Whites, he quickly dressed and retrieved his new Nintendo before leaving the house." Showing no signs of outward panic, and asking no questions

*burke and FW left at 8:00ish," and the ride was quite. FW reported, "there was little conversation in the car, and Burke had no (yes no) questions about his sister's disappearance or about the presence of uniformed officers in his house that morning." ( 1159) (sorry, emphasis mine)

Now I get it that being awoken in such a manner might make a kid frightened and quiet while getting ready to leave. But on the drive to your friends house, with a long time, trusted, family friend along for the ride he has NO QUESTIONS? Not one? about the numerous family, and friends, the cops and the strangers in his house when he woke up???? No WHERES MY SISTER???????

Doesn't add up.

All quotes Foreign faction kindle addition

 

[Darlene733510]

Speaking of FW. We know his daughter and JB were good friends. Could JB have mentioned something to her friend?
Could her friend have had someone try to introduce an episode of "playing doctor" to her as he and JB were caught doing, when the housekeeper looked in on them?
Maybe that is why PW wanted to speak to PR, and PR refused to speak with her.
I sure wish we could hear from FW, but for some reason we haven't, and probably never will.

 

[DeeDee249]

Speaking of FW. We know his daughter and JB were good friends. Could JB have mentioned something to her friend?
Could her friend have had someone try to introduce an episode of "playing doctor" to her as he and JB were caught doing, when the housekeeper looked in on them?
Maybe that is why PW wanted to speak to PR, and PR refused to speak with her.
I sure wish we could hear from FW, but for some reason we haven't, and probably never will.

I suppose it could be possible, but I just feel that maybe PW had been aware of BR "playing doctor" with his sister, or PW was aware of some other abuse going on, either with BR or someone else.

 

[DeDee]

I haven't been on in a bit, and am now just reading about this!!! Interesting and significant, IMO. Especially with another pro-Ramsey book on the way.


I think he knows a good deal that we haven't been made aware of. Just what was revealed in Kolar's book was profound for me. For some, the info might have already been out there, but up until his book I had only read online info (a lot), and his book was a great primer for the facts in the case. As for FW:

*he had already looked in the wine cellar, and saw no body. Yes he didn't turn on the light,(he reported being unable to locate the switch), "but he did step into the room and saw nothing" (1710) but when he witnessed JR discovering the body, she was close to the door. Was she moved during the unaccounted time by JR? (By moved I mean closer to the door, not that she was somewhere completely different.)

*and speaking of light, JR was a little too enthusiastic as he started screaming over JRBs discovery "immediately upon opening the door, before he flipped the light switch" (1710)

*before Burke leaves with FW (only minutes after purportedly being awakened) officer French tried to "interview Burke," but was quickly told by JR "the boy was asleep during the entire event, and had no information for officers." (530) yet john also told first responders "Burke was still asleep and had not been awakened to determine if he knew anything." So how does john know whether or not Burke "knew anything" (481)? Also, notice he doesn't say Burke didn't hear anything, just that he doesn't have info for the officers, and he also says Burke was asleep during the "entire event," not just asleep, but asleep during the entire event. Kinda interesting choice of words IMO

*FW witnessed/experienced BRs behavior 1st hand. Most significant IMO... After being awakened/summoned from his room and told "your sister is missing, and you're going to spend the day at the Whites, he quickly dressed and retrieved his new Nintendo before leaving the house." Showing no signs of outward panic, and asking no questions

*burke and FW left at 8:00ish," and the ride was quite. FW reported, "there was little conversation in the car, and Burke had no (yes no) questions about his sister's disappearance or about the presence of uniformed officers in his house that morning." ( 1159) (sorry, emphasis mine)

Now I get it that being awoken in such a manner might make a kid frightened and quiet while getting ready to leave. But on the drive to your friends house, with a long time, trusted, family friend along for the ride he has NO QUESTIONS? Not one? about the numerous family, and friends, the cops and the strangers in his house when he woke up???? No WHERES MY SISTER???????

Doesn't add up.

All quotes Foreign faction kindle addition

*he had already looked in the wine cellar, and saw no body. Yes he didn't turn on the light,(he reported being unable to locate the switch), "but he did step into the room and saw nothing" (1710) but when he witnessed JR discovering the body, she was close to the door. Was she moved during the unaccounted time by JR? (By moved I mean closer to the door, not that she was somewhere completely different.)

FW went to the wine cellar for liquor during the Ramsey's Christmas party on the 23rd. Did he not need to flip on the hidden light switch to see what he was doing?

*and speaking of light, JR was a little too enthusiastic as he started screaming over JRBs discovery "immediately upon opening the door, before he flipped the light switch" (1710)

This version of JRs scream is revealed to us only via FW?

*before Burke leaves with FW (only minutes after purportedly being awakened) officer French tried to "interview Burke," but was quickly told by JR "the boy was asleep during the entire event, and had no information for officers." (530)

FW stated that during the six minute drive to his home with BR that they were silent. Maybe FW knew what happened and did not need the 9yo to tell him. Officer Patterson went to the White's to question BR while Det Ardnt went to where the Rs were at the Fernie's on the 26th.


FW touched evidence at the crime scene:

• the broken glass
• the blue suitcase
• JonBenet's ankle
• the masking tape

And who knows what FW did while in the basement when he first arrived at 6am. He didn't tell the PO that he found an unlatched window that JR later latched during his own early morning excursion into the basement. After the body was brought upstairs,FW took LA aside and informed her that he did not see JBR when he looked inside the wine cellar earlier that morning.

FW ignored multiple court issued subpoenas to the point that he was ordered to spend 30 days in jail beginning Oct 25, 2001, by explaining to the court, in the People vs Miller hearing, that it was more important to protect his family than it was for him testify. After removing his coat and tie, he was handcuffed and led to a jail cell. AYKM?

Regarding BRs behavior, young children do not view life in the way adults do. Maybe playing his new Nintendo was more fun than looking for his sister. I shall share a true story. My 6yo granddaughter was playing with my 2013 calendar when it was replaced with the new 2014. When she came to the month of Sept., she asked, "DeDee, why did you draw a sad face on the 3rd day?" Gently, I explained that was the date my mother died a few years ago. She replied, "Why didn't you put a smiley face since that is the day when she went to heaven?"

 

[Anyhoo]

FW went to the wine cellar for liquor during the Ramsey's Christmas party on the 23rd. Did he not need to flip on the hidden light switch to see what he was doing?



This version of JRs scream is revealed to us only via FW?



FW stated that during the six minute drive to his home with BR that they were silent. Maybe FW knew what happened and did not need the 9yo to tell him. Officer Patterson went to the White's to question BR while Det Ardnt went to where the Rs were at the Fernie's on the 26th.


FW touched evidence at the crime scene:

• the broken glass
• the blue suitcase
• JonBenet's ankle
• the masking tape

And who knows what FW did while in the basement when he first arrived at 6am. He didn't tell the PO that he found an unlatched window that JR later latched during his own early morning excursion into the basement. After the body was brought upstairs,FW took LA aside and informed her that he did not see JBR when he looked inside the wine cellar earlier that morning.

FW ignored multiple court issued subpoenas to the point that he was ordered to spend 30 days in jail beginning Oct 25, 2001, by explaining to the court, in the People vs Miller hearing, that it was more important to protect his family than it was for him testify. After removing his coat and tie, he was handcuffed and led to a jail cell. AYKM?

Regarding BRs behavior, young children do not view life in the way adults do. Maybe playing his new Nintendo was more fun than looking for his sister. I shall share a true story. My 6yo granddaughter was playing with my 2013 calendar when it was replaced with the new 2014. When she came to the month of Sept., she asked, "DeDee, why did you draw a sad face on the 3rd day?" Gently, I explained that was the date my mother died a few years ago. She replied, "Why didn't you put a smiley face since that is the day when she went to heaven?"

I've always thought FW knows more than he is telling, and apparently I am not the only one to think it. I think it is absolutely ludicrous for the BPD to proclaim anyone as "innocent" in this murder until they know what happened. Why would anyone believe the BPD anyway? What credibility do they have at this point? If they don't know who killed her the best thing they can do is not say anything. DA's and Police Chief's making broad proclamations of innocence when they don't even know what happened makes them look like asses, IMO.

 

[bettybaby00]

FW went to the wine cellar for liquor during the Ramsey's Christmas party on the 23rd. Did he not need to flip on the hidden light switch to see what he was doing?

Do you have a source for this, I'm not aware of any record of being stated?

This version of JRs scream is revealed to us only via FW?

IKD, but then again, IIRC, doesn't JRB recount that he screamed upon finding her body?

FW stated that during the six minute drive to his home with BR that they were silent. Maybe FW knew what happened and did not need the 9yo to tell him. Officer Patterson went to the White's to question BR while Det Ardnt went to where the Rs were at the Fernie's on the 26th.


FW touched evidence at the crime scene:

• the broken glass
• the blue suitcase
• JonBenet's ankle
• the masking tape

And who knows what FW did while in the basement when he first arrived at 6am. He didn't tell the PO that he found an unlatched window that JR later latched during his own early morning excursion into the basement. After the body was brought upstairs,FW took LA aside and informed her that he did not see JBR when he looked inside the wine cellar earlier that morning.

FW ignored multiple court issued subpoenas to the point that he was ordered to spend 30 days in jail beginning Oct 25, 2001, by explaining to the court, in the People vs Miller hearing, that it was more important to protect his family than it was for him testify. After removing his coat and tie, he was handcuffed and led to a jail cell. AYKM?

I'm gathering from the above that you feel FW could have been involved? Possibly the suspected intruder that was close to the family? Your post leads me to believe that you feel his behaviors were suspect. Ok, let me ask you this. Of all the people the Rs named as possible suspects, were any--including FW--ever considered suspects? No. Why? B/C every possible lead, or person who was named by the Rs as possible suspects were FULLY vetted by LE. And although I don't have anything on hand ATM, I feel confident in believing that the DAs office fully vetted him, among all the other named people as well.

Also, as part of that vetting process wouldn't it be safe to assume that the "pivotal DNA evidence" that proves non-Ramsey involvement wasn't also proven to rule out all the people within the family's circle of friends and associates?

To the best of my knowledge, FW was never considered a suspect or even a person of interest. That is except for the finger pointing from the Rs.

Regarding BRs behavior, young children do not view life in the way adults do. Maybe playing his new Nintendo was more fun than looking for his sister. I shall share a true story. My 6yo granddaughter was playing with my 2013 calendar when it was replaced with the new 2014. When she came to the month of Sept., she asked, "DeDee, why did you draw a sad face on the 3rd day?" Gently, I explained that was the date my mother died a few years ago. She replied, "Why didn't you put a smiley face since that is the day when she went to heaven?"

Yes children do process life experiences different than adults. Discounting the maturity level between 6 and 9 year olds, the personal experience you've shared is not quite an apples to apples comparison. Consider this: if your young granddaughter had been at the scene of your mother's passing, don't you think her reaction would have been different? Might she not have questions about why she died, or what caused it, did it hurt, or even questions about death in general? Young children usually ask many questions when someone dies, especially if they are very close to that person, or if they were present when it happened. given the nature of JRBs death it is very unusual for BR to not have had many questions about what had happened to his sister. He went to bed on the night of the 25th and woke up to a very chaotic situation, including strangers and uniformed police officers wandering throughout his home. If nothing else, he should have shown fear that something bad could happen to him. Yet he didn't, nor is there any evidence that he even sought out his mother before leaving the house. Wouldn't you think a 9 year old in such a situation would run to his mom? If not out of concern for his sister, didn't he worry where his mom was or if she was ok? No. No questions, seemingly no concern for anything. Not when he came down stairs, not in the car. Not when he was questioned by Officer Patterson later that day or even when he was interviewed by social services several weeks later. It might just be me, but that isn't normal by any definition.

 

[Meara]

Ah, the chance I've been waiting for! Yes, FW went to the wine cellar on the night of the 23rd and brought up something, wine or liquor. This does not mean he knew where the light switch was. He went down to get more. This means someone else brought up the first bottles, most likely J or P since they were hosting. PR has said (and maybe JR, too) that they weren't good in general at turning off lights. I can see one of them down in the WC, gathering up bottles to take upstairs, and leaving the light on, either because they tended to be careless about lights, or because carrying the bottles made turning the lights off awkward. It's entirely possible FW didn't know the location of the light switch because he never had to use it.

Now, having said all that, I will find and post the long ago seen sources that support these claims. BRB. Well...BB, anyway.

 

[questfortrue]

RSBM


I'm gathering from the above that you feel FW could have been involved? Possibly the suspected intruder that was close to the family? Your post leads me to believe that you feel his behaviors were suspect. Ok, let me ask you this. Of all the people the Rs named as possible suspects, were any--including FW--ever considered suspects? No. Why? B/C every possible lead, or person who was named by the Rs as possible suspects were FULLY vetted by LE. And although I don't have anything on hand ATM, I feel confident in believing that the DAs office fully vetted him, among all the other named people as well.

Also, as part of that vetting process wouldn't it be safe to assume that the "pivotal DNA evidence" that proves non-Ramsey involvement wasn't also proven to rule out all the people within the family's circle of friends and associates?

To the best of my knowledge, FW was never considered a suspect or even a person of interest. That is except for the finger pointing from the Rs.
RSBM

As you say, bettybaby00, FW was investigated and never named a suspect. There’s more too.

No expert on FW here, but from what I’ve read FW and his wife were very cooperative with the BPD: According to PMPT the Whites were interviewed on Jan. 4, 1997. The Whites also agreed to allow their two children D and F Jr. to be interviewed. . . .
The W’s were asked to give blood, hair, saliva and handwriting samples, which they willingly provided. The Whites would soon become the most cooperative witnesses. Some detective believed they might unknowingly hold the answers to key questions. Over the next two months, the Whites would be interviewed eighteen times, often at their own request.

Additionally, FW wrote a letter to the University President urging him to consider the ramifications of allowing the journalism professor Tracey documentary to move forward, since this was an open investigation into a child’s murder.

He also wrote to the Governor (twice) asking him to appoint another DA office to take over the investigation and case, since he felt the Boulder DA’s office was not going to be able to fully deal with this homicide. A compromise action by the Governor was to order a GJ to be called.

I believe that FW reached a point, deciding to avoid speaking about this case in public, and vowing to only bear witness at a trial. But I also have a hunch he isn’t going to put up with any more insinuations/libel from any new books which might be published. MHO.

 

[bettybaby00]

As you say, bettybaby00, FW was investigated and never named a suspect. There’s more too.

No expert on FW here, but from what I’ve read FW and his wife were very cooperative with the BPD: According to PMPT the Whites were interviewed on Jan. 4, 1997. The Whites also agreed to allow their two children D and F Jr. to be interviewed. . . .
The W’s were asked to give blood, hair, saliva and handwriting samples, which they willingly provided. The Whites would soon become the most cooperative witnesses. Some detective believed they might unknowingly hold the answers to key questions. Over the next two months, the Whites would be interviewed eighteen times, often at their own request.

Additionally, FW wrote a letter to the University President urging him to consider the ramifications of allowing the journalism professor Tracey documentary to move forward, since this was an open investigation into a child’s murder.

He also wrote to the Governor (twice) asking him to appoint another DA office to take over the investigation and case, since he felt the Boulder DA’s office was not going to be able to fully deal with this homicide. A compromise action by the Governor was to order a GJ to be called.

I believe that FW reached a point, deciding to avoid speaking about this case in public, and vowing to only bear witness at a trial. But I also have a hunch he isn’t going to put up with any more insinuations/libel from any new books which might be published. MHO.

Thank you for the details. I knew much of this but didn't feel I could document some of it accurately.

It has been my view that they were very active in seeking justice for JonBenet. As for your last comments, are you responding to the reference made about people Vs Miller that was posted? I really have no info on that. Also, the idea that he "didn't feel he should speak about the case publicly b/c it was an open investigation is also interesting. As I've been rereading Kolar's book I was struck by his puzzlement regarding L. Smit's willingness to speak about the case publicly during an open investigation.

 

[chlban]

He also wrote to the Governor (twice) asking him to appoint another DA office to take over the investigation and case, since he felt the Boulder DA’s office was not going to be able to fully deal with this homicide. A compromise action by the Governor was to order a GJ to be called.

I believe that FW reached a point, deciding to avoid speaking about this case in public, and vowing to only bear witness at a trial. But I also have a hunch he isn’t going to put up with any more insinuations/libel from any new books which might be published. MHO.

Nor should he. He has been fully investigated and there has never been one shred of credible evidence to tie him to this crime.

In addition, as you said, he has pushed much harder on this case than the victims own family. Although, granted that isn't saying much. He was also the first "friend" who appeared to figure things out. Although we cannot know that for sure, unless he finally decides to speak publicly, the "evidence" certainly points to that being the reason for the fall out with the R's in Atlanta.

I am sick and tired of people just becoming familiar with a case that has been ongoing for 17 years finally deciding to play detective and naming or insinuating that FW was some sick freak just because he had the misfortune of being in the house that day and because the Ramsey's, proven liars, have tried to throw him, along with just about anyone else they could think of, under the bus.

 

[Mama2JML]

Nor should he. He has been fully investigated and there has never been one shred of credible evidence to tie him to this crime.

In addition, as you said, he has pushed much harder on this case than the victims own family. Although, granted that isn't saying much. He was also the first "friend" who appeared to figure things out. Although we cannot know that for sure, unless he finally decides to speak publicly, the "evidence" certainly points to that being the reason for the fall out with the R's in Atlanta.

I am sick and tired of people just becoming familiar with a case that has been ongoing for 17 years finally deciding to play detective and naming or insinuating that FW was some sick freak just because he had the misfortune of being in the house that day and because the Ramsey's, proven liars, have tried to throw him, along with just about anyone else they could think of, under the bus.

According to Mr. White, there was no fall out in Atlanta.

 

[chlban]

According to Mr. White, there was no fall out in Atlanta.

Yeah right. Mr. White didn't want to become a victim of the Ramsey legal machine. It is clear to anyone with a brain why he has kept his mouth shut, publicly, all these years.

 

[DeDee]

Do you have a source for this, I'm not aware of any record of being stated?


IKD, but then again, IIRC, doesn't JRB recount that he screamed upon finding her body?


I'm gathering from the above that you feel FW could have been involved? Possibly the suspected intruder that was close to the family? Your post leads me to believe that you feel his behaviors were suspect. Ok, let me ask you this. Of all the people the Rs named as possible suspects, were any--including FW--ever considered suspects? No. Why? B/C every possible lead, or person who was named by the Rs as possible suspects were FULLY vetted by LE. And although I don't have anything on hand ATM, I feel confident in believing that the DAs office fully vetted him, among all the other named people as well.

Also, as part of that vetting process wouldn't it be safe to assume that the "pivotal DNA evidence" that proves non-Ramsey involvement wasn't also proven to rule out all the people within the family's circle of friends and associates?

To the best of my knowledge, FW was never considered a suspect or even a person of interest. That is except for the finger pointing from the Rs.


Yes children do process life experiences different than adults. Discounting the maturity level between 6 and 9 year olds, the personal experience you've shared is not quite an apples to apples comparison. Consider this: if your young granddaughter had been at the scene of your mother's passing, don't you think her reaction would have been different? Might she not have questions about why she died, or what caused it, did it hurt, or even questions about death in general? Young children usually ask many questions when someone dies, especially if they are very close to that person, or if they were present when it happened. given the nature of JRBs death it is very unusual for BR to not have had many questions about what had happened to his sister. He went to bed on the night of the 25th and woke up to a very chaotic situation, including strangers and uniformed police officers wandering throughout his home. If nothing else, he should have shown fear that something bad could happen to him. Yet he didn't, nor is there any evidence that he even sought out his mother before leaving the house. Wouldn't you think a 9 year old in such a situation would run to his mom? If not out of concern for his sister, didn't he worry where his mom was or if she was ok? No. No questions, seemingly no concern for anything. Not when he came down stairs, not in the car. Not when he was questioned by Officer Patterson later that day or even when he was interviewed by social services several weeks later. It might just be me, but that isn't normal by any definition.

Patsy, herself, tells us that FW had been in the wine cellar prior to Christmas 1996. From PRs interview:

TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. In the months prior to Christmas of 1996 Fleet would have gone in there?
PATSY RAMSEY: I would say Fleet, the cleaning lady and –
TRIP DEMUTH: Maybe the husband?
PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe the husband and maybe the daughter.
TRIP DEMUTH: How about yourself?


From the Fleet White deposition:

A. There was a latch, as I recall, that was at the top of the door, and I unlatched it and then opened the -- opened the door and just looked in the room.
Q. Did you open the door completely to look in?
A. Wide enough to look in.
Q. And what did you see?
A. It was dark
Q. Totally dark?
A. As I recall, it was quite dark.
Q. Did any of the light in the hallway illuminate the area when you opened the door, to some extent?
A. Perhaps to some extent, but it was quite dark.
Q. It is my understanding you tried to find a light switch unsuccessfully?
A. Yes.
Q. Which side of the wall did you reach for? Left? Right? Describe for me the extent of your effort to locate a light switch in the wine cellar.
A. I believe I just reached in and felt the wall next to the door and didn't find one, so --
Q. Did you actually step into the room, though?
A. I may have put one -- I may have leaned in, placed one foot in.
Q. Would there be any reason why you would not have simply walked into the room, even though dark, to make an observation?
A. I don't -- I don't remember why I didn't walk in the room
Q. But you did not?
A. I did not walk in the room, other than to, perhaps, lean in or -- far enough to reach around and look for a switch.
Q. When you couldn't find a switch, what did you do?
A. I closed the door.
Q. Did you relatch it?
A. I believe I relatched it.
Q. Were you wearing gloves that morning?
A. No.

* * *

So we have FW, who walked around the morning of the 26th writing notes, stating he may have taken one step into the wine cellar. If the wooden latch is at the top of the door, why did he think JonBenet would have hidden herself inside that cold and moldy environment?

If JBR was kidnapped as the RN stated, why did FW think she would be in a windowless room that was locked from the outside?

The story about FW retrieving wine from the basement cellar is mentioned on several forums, including this one from the Wine Cellar thread.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6166917&postcount=39"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6166917&postcount=39][/ame]


John tells us in his 1997 interview that he screamed after he lifts JonBenet's body or maybe he could not scream at all:

JR: Right. I found her and I, the first hope of course is that she’s OK. I took the tape off her lips, and her lips were blue. And I tried to untie her hands and her arms. She was stiff, and so I was afraid that she was gone, and so I just picked her up, and screams, and the I went upstairs and laid her down on the floor


From JRs June 1998 interview with Smit:

LOU SMIT: How do you know they were tied

8 tight?

9 JOHN RAMSEY: Because they were -- you know,

10 her skin was swollen around. And they were not

11 easy to get off. I tried to untie them quickly and

12 I just picked her up carried her upstairs. I was

13 screaming. In fact, I couldn't even scream.

14 And then I brought her upstairs into the

15 living room and later there, at one point, tried

16 to untie the not further, and Linda Arndt stopped

17 me from doing it.


Quite frankly, it does not matter, in solving the case, whether or not JR screamed nor when he did.
* * *

Burke did not know his sister was dead in the basement when he was being led from his bedroom by his father and family friend. He was told that she was missing. Why didn't Patsy run to Burke as he was leaving his home and hold her son close bc someone was out there? Further, when the children visited with Patsy while she was hospitalized, Burke did not ask any questions. Patsy said he stood around with his hands in his pockets. It was JonBenet who was curious and asked multiple questions. (See video in the media thread.)

In response to the assumption that I believe FW was involved in the murder, the answer is no, not at this time. I hold the belief that PR premeditated her daughter's murder so, to that end, all others must be eliminated, including FW.

 

[Mama2JML]

RS&BBM

So we have FW, who walked around the morning of the 26th writing notes, stating he may have taken one step into the wine cellar. If the wooden latch is at the top of the door, why did he think JonBenet would have hidden herself inside that cold and moldy environment?

If JBR was kidnapped as the RN stated, why did FW think she would be in a windowless room that was locked from the outside?

Your guess is as good as mine, DeDee.

 

[Anyhoo]

Patsy, herself, tells us that FW had been in the wine cellar prior to Christmas 1996. From PRs interview:

TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. In the months prior to Christmas of 1996 Fleet would have gone in there?
PATSY RAMSEY: I would say Fleet, the cleaning lady and –
TRIP DEMUTH: Maybe the husband?
PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe the husband and maybe the daughter.
TRIP DEMUTH: How about yourself?


From the Fleet White deposition:

A. There was a latch, as I recall, that was at the top of the door, and I unlatched it and then opened the -- opened the door and just looked in the room.
Q. Did you open the door completely to look in?
A. Wide enough to look in.
Q. And what did you see?
A. It was dark
Q. Totally dark?
A. As I recall, it was quite dark.
Q. Did any of the light in the hallway illuminate the area when you opened the door, to some extent?
A. Perhaps to some extent, but it was quite dark.
Q. It is my understanding you tried to find a light switch unsuccessfully?
A. Yes.
Q. Which side of the wall did you reach for? Left? Right? Describe for me the extent of your effort to locate a light switch in the wine cellar.
A. I believe I just reached in and felt the wall next to the door and didn't find one, so --
Q. Did you actually step into the room, though?
A. I may have put one -- I may have leaned in, placed one foot in.
Q. Would there be any reason why you would not have simply walked into the room, even though dark, to make an observation?
A. I don't -- I don't remember why I didn't walk in the room
Q. But you did not?
A. I did not walk in the room, other than to, perhaps, lean in or -- far enough to reach around and look for a switch.
Q. When you couldn't find a switch, what did you do?
A. I closed the door.
Q. Did you relatch it?
A. I believe I relatched it.
Q. Were you wearing gloves that morning?
A. No.

* * *

So we have FW, who walked around the morning of the 26th writing notes, stating he may have taken one step into the wine cellar. If the wooden latch is at the top of the door, why did he think JonBenet would have hidden herself inside that cold and moldy environment?

If JBR was kidnapped as the RN stated, why did FW think she would be in a windowless room that was locked from the outside?

The story about FW retrieving wine from the basement cellar is mentioned on several forums, including this one from the Wine Cellar thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6166917&postcount=39]


John tells us in his 1997 interview that he screamed after he lifts JonBenet's body or maybe he could not scream at all:

JR: Right. I found her and I, the first hope of course is that she’s OK. I took the tape off her lips, and her lips were blue. And I tried to untie her hands and her arms. She was stiff, and so I was afraid that she was gone, and so I just picked her up, and screams, and the I went upstairs and laid her down on the floor


From JRs June 1998 interview with Smit:

LOU SMIT: How do you know they were tied

8 tight?

9 JOHN RAMSEY: Because they were -- you know,

10 her skin was swollen around. And they were not

11 easy to get off. I tried to untie them quickly and

12 I just picked her up carried her upstairs. I was

13 screaming. In fact, I couldn't even scream.

14 And then I brought her upstairs into the

15 living room and later there, at one point, tried

16 to untie the not further, and Linda Arndt stopped

17 me from doing it.


Quite frankly, it does not matter, in solving the case, whether or not JR screamed nor when he did.
* * *

Burke did not know his sister was dead in the basement when he was being led from his bedroom by his father and family friend. He was told that she was missing. Why didn't Patsy run to Burke as he was leaving his home and hold her son close bc someone was out there? Further, when the children visited with Patsy while she was hospitalized, Burke did not ask any questions. Patsy said he stood around with his hands in his pockets. It was JonBenet who was curious and asked multiple questions. (See video in the media thread.)

In response to the assumption that I believe FW was involved in the murder, the answer is no, not at this time. I hold the belief that PR premeditated her daughter's murder so, to that end, all others must be eliminated, including FW.

Question: Assuming FW is telling the truth in his disposition, was JB's body in the room when he looked in? He says it it is quite dark but I question if the white blanket on the floor would have reflected enough light to be visible, and if it was visible he should have seen it. I mean a white blanket in the shape of a body on the floor of a darkened room would have gotten my attention. My theory is that the body was NOT in the room at the time FW looked but was placed there later by JR during the two hours he was not in LA's sight. If so there was nothing for FW to see. What allowed JR to be so "cordial" with LE at first on the morning of 12-26 was the knowledge that JB's body so well hidden that LE was not going to find her no matter where they searched. This may indicate that he/they still had plans of secretly removing her body from the house. However later things changed and JR realized LE was not going to go away, and then he realized a change of plans had to be made. At this time he removed JB from where she was at to the basement room. JR was reportedly much more nervous and anxious (and less "cordial") when he knew the body had been placed where LE could get to it.

As for why FW looked in the room, I can see someone being very thorough and just wanting to check everywhere for her, even places where it was illogical for her to be. I can myself doing that. IMO there is nothing suspect about what FW says at this point in his disposition.

 

[Venom]

FW's dna does not match the dna from the scene, isn't that dna the tell tale mark of JB's killer? :waitasec:

As for why FW looked in the room, I can see someone being very thorough and just wanting to check everywhere for her, even places where it was illogical for her to be. I can myself doing that. IMO there is nothing suspect about what FW says at this point in his disposition.

Agreed.

FW did a heck of a lot more for JB then her own family did in terms of trying to get justice for her. He's been cleared, there is no trace of him being in contact with JB that night after she returned home. Who's shirt fibers are in the crotch of her panties, on the duct tape, among others?

jmo and :twocents:

 

[bettybaby00]

Quite frankly, it does not matter, in solving the case, whether or not JR screamed nor when he did.
* * *

No it's no smoking gun by any means, yet it is one of many inconsistencies.

Burke did not know his sister was dead in the basement when he was being led from his bedroom by his father and family friend. He was told that she was missing. Why didn't Patsy run to Burke as he was leaving his home and hold her son close bc someone was out there? Further, when the children visited with Patsy while she was hospitalized, Burke did not ask any questions. Patsy said he stood around with his hands in his pockets. It was JonBenet who was curious and asked multiple questions. (See video in the media thread.)

If BR did in fact sleep through "the entire event" as JR states, it still doesn't fully explain his behavior IMO. We're not talking about a situation where a child goes "missing," and the parents are in the process of "looking" for her. For example, I'm sure many of us have experienced situations where through some sort of miscommunication, or scheduling snafu suddenly realize they don't know where their kid is. Say, not getting off the bus after school, or not being dropped off after a play date on time, or even wandering away while your at the mall, and then after a few frantic phone calls, checking with neighbors, etc., etc., you come to find out there was some sort of miscommunication about the time, or that your child's bus broke down on the way home. Even the scenario at the mall is soon resolved when you suddenly see your tearful kid being led to the security desk by a friendly, empathetic mom, and the situation is soon forgotten. This is not what Burke woke up to on the morning of the 26th. There were cops, crime scene people, family friends and the family paster milling about his house. If he left the house with only the explanation of "your sister is missing," how could he not have questions about what happened given the intensity of the scene at his house. Even hours later when questioned by Det. Patterson, he doesn't appear concerned about the situation. Kolar remarks about his behavior after reading the transcript of that interview.

It is not clear whether Burke was aware that JonBenet had been found at the time this interview was conducted, but throughout the questioning, I found it odd that he never once expressed concern for his missing sister, or asked about the status of the search for her.

I noted that Burke concluded the interview, not with a question about the welfare of his sister, but with a comment about his excitement about going to Charlevioux. The anticipation of being able to build a fire at the family's second home apparently held some appeal for him. (4468)

As for his demeanor at the hospital, this could be true, he does seem to be described as a quiet kid. But is it fully true? Meaning that he could well have asked questions prior to PRs admission to the hospital. Or he could have been told by his father not to pester his mother, and therefore he questioned his dad about his mother's illness and care instead. Again, IMO this is an not a fair comparison as PRs illness and treatment was ongoing, and afforded other opportunities for Burke to have asked questions. The 26th was a chaotic mess where a child is faced with the possibility that he'll never see his sister again, how can he not have questions?

In response to the assumption that I believe FW was involved in the murder, the answer is no, not at this time. I hold the belief that PR premeditated her daughter's murder so, to that end, all others must be eliminated, including FW.

This was not clear to me from your post. Good to hear that you feel FW was not involved.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

FW's dna does not match the dna from the scene, isn't that dna the tell tale mark of JB's killer? :waitasec:


Agreed.

FW did a heck of a lot more for JB then her own family did in terms of trying to get justice for her. He's been cleared, there is no trace of him being in contact with JB that night after she returned home. Who's shirt fibers are in the crotch of her panties, on the duct tape, among others?

jmo and :twocents:

Yes and that is my point. If you believe the DNA does not match FW so he is not the killer, You have to say the same about the R's. It is the same measure.

Im glad that FW helped get justice.. Can you tell us how???

And let me be clear, I don't think that any of the Whites had anything to do with this crime. Nothing. Never thought they were suspects from the beginning. i have always believed at best this was fringe acquaintance, at worst just a horrible killer that fixated on this family and JBR. JMO

 

[chlban]

FW did a heck of a lot more for JB then her own family did in terms of trying to get justice for her. jmo and :twocents:

Exactly. That is a large part of why the innuendo's make me so angry.

It is usually the ridiculous IDI's, grasping at any straw, or someone brand new to the case and landing upon the guy who was with John when he "found" the body, as if that somehow implicates him in the death.

It's these people that want to turn this into some giant JFK (the movie) style conspiracy complete with pedophile rings and the Ramseys pimping their daughter out to some weird group of friends for entertainment.

As little as I think of the Ramseys, I don't even begin to buy such nonsense.

Sometimes if it looks like an accident and a subsequent cover up, it is an accident and a subsequent cover up.