Brad Cooper: Appeal info

[oenophile]

Strangled with no evidence of sexual assault? Odd don't ya think, considering she was not wearing underwear or shorts, but her jog bra was there - though turned in the wrong way- suggesting it was placed by someone else. Maybe this was foot fetish monster since she was also stripped of her socks and shoes? This is just another piece of HUGE circumstantial evidence pointing straight to Brad Cooper.

1. The ME said that sexual assault was inconclusive due to the level of decomposition of the body. Thus, if a sexual assault had taken place, there would be no evidence of it.
2. Why, precisely, does this point to Brad? I don't get the connection. If he had killed her and he said that she was out for a jog, then wouldn't he want her to be found wearing a jogging outfit with shoes? Seems logical to me. Unless you are predisposed to believing Brad did it despite the evidence, the clothing points away from Brad. If she was sexually assaulted in a vehicle, the person that did it would have removed the important clothing (including the shoes, if she is kicking) while she was still in the van. About the only thing slightly odd would be the socks removed. Everything else fits with random killer. He then would have disposed of the clothing someplace else, including the shoes.

 

[oenophile]

Sounds pretty staged on this end..

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 4

Doesn't sound at all staged on this end.

 

[Just the Fax]

1. The ME said that sexual assault was inconclusive due to the level of decomposition of the body. Thus, if a sexual assault had taken place, there would be no evidence of it.
2. Why, precisely, does this point to Brad? I don't get the connection. If he had killed her and he said that she was out for a jog, then wouldn't he want her to be found wearing a jogging outfit with shoes? Seems logical to me. Unless you are predisposed to believing Brad did it despite the evidence, the clothing points away from Brad. If she was sexually assaulted in a vehicle, the person that did it would have removed the important clothing (including the shoes, if she is kicking) while she was still in the van. About the only thing slightly odd would be the socks removed. Everything else fits with random killer. He then would have disposed of the clothing someplace else, including the shoes.

So, the killer(s) took the time to strip her shorts, socks and shoes, yet left the bra? If they went that far, I would expect evidence of rape from the rape kit.

Have you tried to dress a limp corpse? Not me, but I can easily imagine it would be very difficult to put on her underwear and shorts, hence the single jog bra, turned inward - as expected if it was placed haphazardly by someone else. The lack of socks and shoes was a stupid mistake, as having them in place would be much more believable.

 

[Madeleine74]

Not only that but there was no hairband in her hair, or near her. No BB cap either, which she was known to wear running. It's these little mistakes that trip up a killer because they can't possibly think of or remember everything.

 

[oenophile]

So, the killer(s) took the time to strip her shorts, socks and shoes, yet left the bra? If they went that far, I would expect evidence of rape from the rape kit.

Have you tried to dress a limp corpse? Not me, but I can easily imagine it would be very difficult to put on her underwear and shorts, hence the single jog bra, turned inward - as expected if it was placed haphazardly by someone else. The lack of socks and shoes was a stupid mistake, as having them in place would be much more believable.

Not only that but there was no hairband in her hair, or near her. No BB cap either, which she was known to wear running. It's these little mistakes that trip up a killer because they can't possibly think of or remember everything.

Neither of these hypotheses hold up when you consider it rationally.

A. Rape kit: already discussed, state of decomposition is primary factor as to why no evidence of rape.
B. Difficult to put on underwear and shorts? Really? On a dead body? I'll admit I've never done it, but it doesn't seem that hard to do. But sports bras are not exactly easy to remove over the arms of a struggling woman.
C. Stupid mistakes/little mistakes. I find it amazing that Brad is this mastermind killer that doesn't leave any physical evidence in the car, no tire tracks, no evidence of a crime, and yet he supposedly makes stupid mistakes over something that would be obvious? I realize that this adds to the tragic irony of a fictional story, but we aren't talking fiction here. And if the prosecution is correct, Brad had plenty of time to dress the body. But the evidence doesn't point to Brad, unless you think he is Wile E. Coyote, super genius.

What you need to ask is: what makes sense? Does it make sense that Nancy would be only wearing a partially removed sports bra after being abducted, sexually assaulted and murdered? Absolutely. Does it make sense that Brad would dress her in only a sports bra in order to create a jogging scenario? Nope.

 

[otto]

So, the killer(s) took the time to strip her shorts, socks and shoes, yet left the bra? If they went that far, I would expect evidence of rape from the rape kit.

Have you tried to dress a limp corpse? Not me, but I can easily imagine it would be very difficult to put on her underwear and shorts, hence the single jog bra, turned inward - as expected if it was placed haphazardly by someone else. The lack of socks and shoes was a stupid mistake, as having them in place would be much more believable.

Are there any stats that examine clothing of murder victims, and the probability that the murder was not committed by a stranger?

 

[otto]

Not only that but there was no hairband in her hair, or near her. No BB cap either, which she was known to wear running. It's these little mistakes that trip up a killer because they can't possibly think of or remember everything.

BBM

I think the baseball cap must be with the necklace that she never took off.



http://www.nancysbutterflyfund.org/index.php

 

[Just the Fax]

oenophile,
I considered it very rationally -:cheers:

 

[Madeleine74]

BBM

I think the baseball cap must be with the necklace that she never took off.



http://www.nancysbutterflyfund.org/index.php

Ummmm....she's wearing earmuffs in that picture along with a long sleeve jacket, which indicates it was cold outside. This run must have been up north somewhere. In the summer in NC she was known to wear a BB cap when running outside. I didn't say 100% every time, but that was her usual attire during her time in NC. BTW, did you notice her hair's in a ponytail?

 

[Madeleine74]

For those who like to analyze and parse words and phrases, you'll enjoy reading the verbatim transcripts of what police chief Pat Bazemore actually said in the various press conferences. I'll post each press conference separately.


July 14, 2008 1:30pm (note that NC's body had not yet been discovered)

(Question is from the media. PB is Pat Bazemore)

Question: "Have you had any DEFINITIVE confirmation that anyone saw her jogging Saturday?"

PB: "We have not had any definitive information."

Q: "Have you had any reports in Cary of joggers being harassed or followed or tailed recently?"

PB: "We have not had any...we believe this is an isolated incident, and we are investigating it as a missing person and an isolated incident with this case."


Q: "So you haven't had any reports of joggers being harassed or followed?"

PB: "We have not received any reports for the areas we're actually talking about and where we think Nancy has been. We have not received any reports."


Q: "If you believed that there was somebody that was dangerous in the community that people need to be concerned about, would you not put that info out?"

PB: "We absolutely would put any information out if we had any indication that our community was at harm, we would get that information out as quickly as we had it."

Q: "This may sound like an obvious question, but you haven't had any reports of her being sighted since the disappearance, correct?"

PB: "We have not had any reports of ACTUAL sightings, and if we do get any reports we will immediately go and look for the area if she was reported."

 

[Madeleine74]

July 14, 2008 6:30pm (this was the news conference w/Brad Cooper statement; NC's body had not yet been discovered)

** This is not a complete transcript. **

Q: "Why do you think she's still alive?"

PB: "Because the last time anyone saw her she went out running on Saturday and there's been nothing that indicates that she is not a missing person at this time."


Q: "But there is nothing that indicates she is alive?"

PB: "There is nothing that indicates one way or the other and we will continue searching for her as a missing person until we identify something otherwise."


Q: "What kind of concern should Cary residents have, if any, regarding any outdoor activities they engage in like jogging alone and so forth?"

PB: "There is nothing right now that indicates that this is anything more than an isolated case. If there was any indication our citizens were at harm, we would be putting information out right away to let our citizens know to be careful and that there was a possibility of danger for them."


Q: "What time was she reported missing?"

PB: "She was reported missing at 2:51pm Saturday afternoon."


Q: "Who was the last person to see her at night and also in the morning, was it her daughter or Mr. Cooper who actually saw her walk out in her running shorts?"

PB: "The last person that actually saw her was Brad Cooper and he did see her the night before, and he was also the last person to see her before she went jogging."


Q: "Do you believe she's been the victim of foul play?"

PB: "There is nothing we have...no indication right now that there is any foul play. Again we're going to continue to investigate this as a missing person until there is indication otherwise."


Q: "Why do you think this is an isolated incident?"

PB: "We've had no reports in the area of suspicious activity and there's been nothing that we've had reported or that we've seen that would indicate that it's anything but an isolated incident."


Q: "Are leads coming in ... from all the efforts of police and volunteers out there?"

PB: "They're actually talking to people in the area so a lot of people are providing information, and any information that we do get we do follow up on."


Q: "Has there been any CONFIRMED sighting or any sighting of her whatsoever?"

PB: "There has been no confirmed sighting...I do want to reiterate to you that her sister is an identical twin and we do want to be very careful that people do not confuse her sister with her."

 

[otto]

Ummmm....she's wearing earmuffs in that picture along with a long sleeve jacket, which indicates it was cold outside. This run must have been up north somewhere. In the summer in NC she was known to wear a BB cap when running outside. I didn't say 100% every time, but that was her usual attire during her time in NC. BTW, did you notice her hair's in a ponytail?

Earmuffs? Headphones? Do Canadians wear earmuffs with their shorts? Maybe it was way up North in Banff in September.

I have seen photos where she wears her hair down, and others where she has it tied back. Did investigators look for an elastic in the drainage ditch near a construction site?

 

[otto]

July 14, 2008 6:30pm

Q: "Why do you think this is an isolated incident?"

PB: "We've had no reports in the area of suspicious activity and there's been nothing that we've had reported or that we've seen that would indicate that it's anything but an isolated incident."

<respectfully snipped for brevity>

Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook (aged 10 and 8) vanished off the street while cycling on a summer afternoon in Iowa last year. There were no reports of suspicious activity. It had never happened before, and it hasn't happened since. It was an isolated incident. Does that mean that their parents are responsible?

 

[Madeleine74]

July 15, 2008 5pm (reporting the body was Nancy)

** not a complete transcript **

PB: "....Nancy was murdered and our investigation is now a homicide."


PB: "....members of the CPD, the Wake County Sheriff's Dept and the CCBI worked throughout the night to process the crime scene. As of this hour we still have not named a suspect or a POI.

PB: As you can imagine, this is a terrible blow to all of us who feel we have grown to know and care about Nancy and her family. We are appalled and outraged by this terrible tragedy, and as the chief of this department, I promise each one of you that nothing will stand in our way of doing our very best to ensure a swift and certain closure to this case.

PB: To that end, and as most of you already know, it's imperative that none of us does or says anything that will jeopardize our efforts in identifying the person or persons responsible for Nancy's death and bringing them to justice. For this reason I will be VERY limited in the information that I can share with you at this time, which I am sure you understand." At this time I will take questions."

< several questions about details of the investigation, none of which can be answered >


Q: You said earlier today that you think this is an isolated incident...can you explain why?"

PB: "We have absolutely nothing that would lead us to believe that this is anything other than an isolated incident at this time."


Q: "If it's isolated do you believe she knew who killed her?"

PB: "Again that's another detail of the investigation and as we work the investigation we'll develop leads and we'll work those, but we haven't named anyone as a suspect and we haven't named a POI at this time."


Q: "Chief, do you believe that this was a RANDOM ACT OF VIOLENCE?"

PB: "We do not believe this was a random act of violence."

 

[otto]

Wait a minute ... what's that ... could it be that she has her music strapped onto her upper arm? That makes a lot more sense than a Canadian wearing earmuffs and shorts.

So, no earmuffs, no baseball cap ... probably no necklace.

 

[otto]

July 15, 2008 5pm (reporting the body was Nancy)

** not a complete transcript **

PB: "....Nancy was murdered and our investigation is now a homicide."


PB: "....members of the CPD, the Wake County Sheriff's Dept and the CCBI worked throughout the night to process the crime scene. As of this hour we still have not named a suspect or a POI.

PB: As you can imagine, this is a terrible blow to all of us who feel we have grown to know and care about Nancy and her family. We are appalled and outraged by this terrible tragedy, and as the chief of this department, I promise each one of you that nothing will stand in our way of doing our very best to ensure a swift and certain closure to this case.

PB: To that end, and as most of you already know, it's imperative that none of us does or says anything that will jeopardize our efforts in identifying the person or persons responsible for Nancy's death and bringing them to justice. For this reason I will be VERY limited in the information that I can share with you at this time, which I am sure you understand." At this time I will take questions."

< several questions about details of the investigation, none of which can be answered >


Q: You said earlier today that you think this is an isolated incident...can you explain why?"

PB: "We have absolutely nothing that would lead us to believe that this is anything other than an isolated incident at this time."


Q: "If it's isolated do you believe she knew who killed her?"

PB: "Again that's another detail of the investigation and as we work the investigation we'll develop leads and we'll work those, but we haven't named anyone as a suspect and we haven't named a POI at this time."


Q: "Chief, do you believe that this was a RANDOM ACT OF VIOLENCE?"

PB: "We do not believe this was a random act of violence."

That seems to be the point ... police immediately concluded that the murder was not random. They arrived at this conclusion based on factors that do not necessarily imply that a murder is, or is not, random. It appears that police were influenced by the opinions of the neighbors and then pursued the theory put forth by the neighbors.

 

[ncsu95]

Wait a minute ... what's that ... could it be that she has her music strapped onto her upper arm? That makes a lot more sense than a Canadian wearing earmuffs and shorts.

So, no earmuffs, no baseball cap ... probably no necklace.

No, she always wore her necklace....except when she went to Harris Teeter the day before the murder. Other than that, she always wore it.

 

[StJohn]

Ummmm....she's wearing earmuffs in that picture along with a long sleeve jacket, which indicates it was cold outside. This run must have been up north somewhere. In the summer in NC she was known to wear a BB cap when running outside. I didn't say 100% every time, but that was her usual attire during her time in NC. BTW, did you notice her hair's in a ponytail?

Considering the alternate theory that Nancy may have been abducted, assaulted and killed, seems unlikely that in a life or death struggle her cap would remain on her head, or a headband remain perfectly in place. Can't see her abductors kindly placing her cap back on her head after killing her, any more than they kindly recovered her breasts with her jog bra.

 

[oenophile]

That seems to be the point ... police immediately concluded that the murder was not random. They arrived at this conclusion based on factors that do not necessarily imply that a murder is, or is not, random. It appears that police were influenced by the opinions of the neighbors and then pursued the theory put forth by the neighbors.

Precisely. At that point in the investigation, there was no reason for her to say that the murder is not random. A more accurate statement would be that they did not know if it was random or not.

I would argue that the police were also influenced by their desire to project an image of Cary as a safe place to live. A random act of violence would jeopardize that image. If she was killed by someone she knew, then the people could feel more secure. Hence also the emphasis that this was an isolated incident.

 

[Just the Fax]

Considering the alternate theory that Nancy may have been abducted, assaulted and killed, seems unlikely that in a life or death struggle her cap would remain on her head, or a headband remain perfectly in place. Can't see her abductors kindly placing her cap back on her head after killing her, any more than they kindly recovered her breasts with her jog bra.

....it also seems unlikely, that in a life or death struggle, her socks and shoes would be removed.