Breaking News Thread 8/19

[Buzz Mills]

Searching For A Killer
Who Killed JonBenet?

(CBS) Their faces are instantly recognizable, but John and Patsy Ramsey are famous in a way no one would want.

Although they have never been publicly called suspects or charged with the 1996 death of their daughter JonBenet, they are resigned to a painful reality.

“We could find the killer tomorrow, he could be arrested, convicted and jailed, and there’d still be 20 per cent of the population would think that we had something to do with it,” says John.

48 Hours Investigates is taking a fresh look at the Ramsey case: finding new evidence and new leads, and reporting on the Ramseys’ personal story, and their thoughts on what happened in their Boulder, Colo., home on Christmas night in 1996. 48 Hours Investigates will also report on never-before-seen videotapes of the police interrogation of both John and Patsy Ramsey. Erin Moriarty reports.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/01/48hours/main523869.shtml

Searching: The Interrogation Tapes
Questions For The Ramseys

(CBS) On June 23, 1998, 18 months after JonBenet was murdered, John and Patsy Ramsey, sitting in separate rooms at the same time, were questioned by Boulder authorities in a Colorado Police Station. The tapes have never been seen publicly - until 48 Hours Investigates aired them.

John’s interrogator was Lou Smit, a homicide detective working for the Boulder DA’s office. Detective Tom Haney questioned Patsy, who at the time was taking medication for both anxiety and depression.

There isn’t a lot of physical evidence against either John or Patsy Ramsey. So the investigators were looking for inconsistencies and focusing on minute details from the crime scene.

Smit asked Patsy questions about pineapple that her daughter ate before being murdered. Autopsy results found undigested pineapple in JonBenet’s stomach. And police discovered fingerprints on a bowl of pineapple left in the family’s dining room on the morning of the murder.

“I didn’t put the bowl there. OK? I didn’t put the bowl there,” Patsy told Smit.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/01/48hours/main523875.shtml

Searching: The Detective
Smits Changes His Mind

Lou Smit (CBS)

(CBS) One hundred miles away from where JonBenet Ramsey was murdered, in a modest home in Colorado Springs, 67-year-old Lou Smit works every day, alone, trying to find her killer. He keeps a picture of her in his wallet.

Smit interrogated John Ramsey in 1998. He is a veteran detective who was hired by the Boulder District attorney to work on the Ramsey Murder case. At first, he thought it was the Ramseys who had killed their daughter.

But as Smit followed the evidence and questioned the Ramseys, he became convinced that the Boulder police were focusing on the wrong suspects.

“John Ramsey came through very, very sincere. When I left that I interview, there was no doubt in my mind that he had nothing to do with the death of his daughter,” says Smit, who quit the investigation in disgust to work on his own to find the killer.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/01/48hours/main523884.shtml

Searching: The Stun Gun Theory
Key Evidence?

Smit and others believes these marks were made by a stun gun. (CBS)

(CBS) More than any other evidence, detective Lou Smit believes that small marks left on JonBenet’s face and back, prove that an intruder killed JonBenet.

“The killer had a stun gun. I am sure the killer had a stun gun,” he says.

He thinks the marks were made by a stun gun, an electrical weapon, which was used to incapacitate the little girl in order to move her to the basement. Smit believes only an intruder would need to use one.

“There is no reason at all for the parents to have a stun gun to help stage the murder of their daughter,” he says. “There’s nothing to indicate the Ramseys ever owned a stun gun.”

What’s significant about the injuries, says Smit, is that those on the child’s face and those on her back appear to be an equal distance apart: approximately 3.5 centimeters, much like the prongs of a stun gun.

Dr. Michael Dobersen, a stun gun expert and coroner for neighboring Arapahoe County, also believes the marks on JonBenet were left by a stun gun. To prove it, he used one on the skin of an anesthetized pig. “The marks are similar in size, shape and color and are a certain distance apart,” he says.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/01/48hours/main523887.shtml

Searching: Other Suspects?
A Man Obsessed?

(CBS) On the cold December night that marked the first anniversary of JonBenet’s murder, dozens of mourners showed up for a candlelight vigil outside the Ramsey home. One man in particular caught the eye of detective Lou Smit.

“Many times, criminals do return to the scene. And that was on the anniversary. That puts him right there at the Ramsey house a year later,” says Smit.

The man was Gary Oliva, 38, a convicted sex offender from Oregon who made frequent trips to Boulder. He has been classified as a paranoid schizophrenic. He was convicted of assaulting another 7-year-old girl in Oregon, and spent time in prison.

Smit is convinced that a pedophile came into the Ramsey home and killed their daughter. “I’ve probably got 25 good leads. And I probably have another 50 pages of other leads to follow,” he says

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/01/48hours/main523892.shtml

 

[scandi]

It's probably hit or miss either way now anyway, as I bet a lot of them are doing it on their own. But this guy was hired by a well known newspaper.

 

[Wudge]

Without verification of Karr's confession, or a DNA match, SBTC appears to be the best evidence they have at this moment. What are the odds of that being used in a yearbook, and on the ransom note.

Don't forget the "Victory" as well as SBTC, it would seem to fit too.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Don't forget the "Victory" as well as SBTC, it would seem to fit too.

That's right, thanks for the reminder--that's an unusual clue, but the odds are high enough against a random match on something like that--.

 

[close_enough]

Scandi, I just saw on Fox News I think, a reporter who ran into him in Paris (this reporter got him in touch with Michael Tracey) Anyway, he said that the guy really creeped him out when he started talking about the case. This reporter did not say if he confessed or not. Just that he knew way too much information about the case.

lol, not making lite of it, but there's been a few posters on this forum, i've thought the same about...

 

[wenchie]

Is there any evidence that Karr was a user of acronyms?

After writing that long note, the author didn't use S.B.T.C. because he/she was in a hurry.

Patsy was a user of acronyms, and yet this seems to be considered as less significant than a yearbook blurb written 24 years ago?

 

[close_enough]

Oh man, I missed that! I'm watching FOX. I don't know if I believe that though to be honest, why would he have a press conference and say he was there when she died, and then want to have ANOTHER press conference to tell reporters that he never said he drugged her, only to turn around and tell fellow inmates that his story wasn't true? UGH! I hate this.

i missed all of this...i'm sitting here trying to weed thru all the posts/threads to get new info...my husband is watching TV & i've wore him out w/the Perry March trial, so i'm not even going to say, "honey, can i change the channel?"...

 

[newtv]

CNN is reporting that the prisoners he has been housed with are saying that he told them his story isn't true.

what I heard from the prisoner was that he was saying some of the things that are being said about him are not true..and to me that could mean alot of things..such as "he is a liar, delusional, not in bolder, it was an accident, and on and on"..personally I think the media is doing the same thing they always do-they do not have a clue about things and they report fragments of everything that means nothing.
That said there is really only one thing to find out..was he in Bolder or not. If he wasnt then he should be charged for mischief of the highest order..and so on..he should be slammed in jail for bolting his charges..and after that if there is nothing to hold him with they have to let him go.
I think there are a couple of possibilities..he is the killer and this is how themind of a killer -predator-sadist, etc works..he is not the killer and is playing this out for attention. I go back and forth and thats why I want to know if he was even in Bolder.
If he wasnt the case is over-unless he knows who did it and it leads to that.
I think he is a crafty, cagey, violent, man under that act.
He pays attention to detail in an obsessive way..and that is why he knows the death wasnt an accident (unless somehow it turns out to be in his mind-he didnt mean to kill her in his mind..he also did not necessarily have to have sex with her in conventional way-so maybe there is no semen for that reason-what if he touched himself with just his zipper down forexample?)
He was so horrible to his first wife that she feared for her life-he is very controlling-noone can stand to be around him..he is fititng the profile of a murderous person..I dont know if thats what makes him likely to have done it in my mind or not-but
i no longer rule him out just because of it.
However-if its not an act, then he is all the things i mentioned and looking for a place in the biggest sex crimes of all time..and thats just as possible.
I would not make anything of the media statements..they will take our thoughts if they had any reason to- they will take a word about him from anyone..the truth is we dont know and unless he was not in Bolder, we cant know anything until it all unfolds.

 

[close_enough]

If the article is true, makes you wonder how the judge ever signed off on the warrant for his arrest. There are supposed to be sufficient grounds for his arrest. If he's not the guy, makes for great grounds for a false arrest suit. Of course, after they arrested him, he confessed. What facts did the emails have in them, that deserved an arrest? That is the burning question for me. As so many things get discussed on forums, who is to say, that these alleged crime scene details weren't known by many other forum posters. It will be interesting to find out.

i agree Buzz...it does make you wonder...it seems all they have (we've heard) are the emails & this 'confession'....someone mentioned on another thread that Karr might even come out of this with some money....

 

[close_enough]

Is there any evidence that Karr was a user of acronyms?

After writing that long note, the author didn't use S.B.T.C. because he/she was in a hurry.

Patsy was a user of acronyms, and yet this seems to be considered as less significant than a yearbook blurb written 24 years ago?

i've been thinking about this note..it is a long note...it would take me, gosh i don't know how long, but a long time, to write that note w/my left hand, to make it ledgible (sp?)....(maybe i'll do a 'test' for myself later)

& you're right, Patsy was a user of acronyms....

i have to admit though, the SBTC & what Karr wrote in that yearbook, is a very strange coincidence...

 

[Tom'sGirl]

I am sending scouting parties to both airports.

Better send a party to Ontario, that's where his flight more than likely would be diverted if LAX gets screwed up AGAIN!

 

[newtv]

there might be some remote possibility that if there is any truth to it being the guy who suicided, maybe he knows what happened because he was his friend in a pedophile ring.
Or he knows who did..it might all lead to something we are not able to anticipate at this stage..the best thing is it will wake people up to the mental gymnastics of such a person..I say predator, pedophile, not mentally ill in the truer sense of the word.
Pedophiles make this *advertiser censored* up to justify their choices.
I hope with the spotlight that will be on htis guys life and development and life journey, theose who think these guys are safe to release into the world may think twice.
This is the creepy mind of a pedophile-possibly murderer, without a shut-off valve. We dont get to see that in real time..we read about it- we know that LE see it all the time-forensics people and those unfortuante enuf to be preyed on by them.
Now the general population can see the machinations of a maniac - a soft spoken monster.
I hope those people step up and vote for laws that do not allow any rights for those convicted of any sex crime involving children.

 

[close_enough]

I would just bet LAX airport is going to be loaded with reporters hoping to get a picture, and a word, or two.

yeah, no kidding....i would imagine it's going to be wild..

 

[Buzz Mills]

Three brothers

Parents married in 1958

Michael Karr, older brother, may be 44
John Mark Karr, birthdate Dec. 12, 1964, age 41
Nathaniel Karr, younger brother

Parents divorced in 1973
Father remarried

If anyone saw Nate Karr interviewed, did he look like an older, or younger brother of John Mark Karr???

 

[scandi]

Ohhh, you lost me on the importance of Victory!~ But I agree the odds are very high against it. Do the capital letters in the yearbook and the ransom note look similiar, considering 10 years lay in between their writing.


Yes Close, I saw that clip too and luckily I had already read about him right here on WS! :woohoo: It was from a different perspective though, hearing someone talk about it rather than read it, as when he stated that at a certain point he decided not to visit with him anymore because he was a bit spooked by this guy, I heard he realized this guy was a bit too obsessed with the case.


This Karr is too transparent. He is not simple minded, as I have read things he has written and they are well stated and probably poignant for what he was trying to say. So that says he was well educaed.

What he never became was socially fluid, to where he could mingle with people and be accepted because he was stimulating to listen to and normal sounding in most respects.

He almost zoned out into his own world, even when around people, so they thought he was weird. They didn't know his brain was teeming with pedopheliac thoughts of conquest, which it probably was a lot, I mean a lot of the time.

And as the years went on his body started to change, from a robust and normal body when he was in Paris to the pathetic wasted state it is in today. It showed what obsession had done to him physically in being gripped for at least 10 years + with the image of her in his mind.

Too much of anything is bad. He has never learned that lesson because he evidently didn't want to.


Scandi

 

[close_enough]

CNN is reporting that the prisoners he has been housed with are saying that he told them his story isn't true.

good grief...

 

[close_enough]

Bean, do you still think he will go to Boulder if this is substantiated or will they serve him with the outstanding warrant in Ca?

You're so good I thought you just must know the answer? BaHaaaaaa Haa Haa Haa

Actually I am so enjoying reading all these fascinating posts by some of the old timer JB posters and of course our regulars too.

I see Bluecrab even showed up today!

Scandi

oooh, was very curious about BC's reaction to all of this....i've got to get to bed...hopefully i'll get the posts via WS email....

nite!

 

[Buzz Mills]

Timeline for John Mark Karr

1964: John Mark Karr is born in Conyers.

1976: Karr moves to Hamilton, Ala., where he is raised by his grandparents.

1983: Graduates from Hamilton High School.

1984: Karr, 19, marries 14-year-old Quientana Shotts in Hamilton, Ala.

March 1985: Karr's marriage is annulled.

May 1989: Karr marries 16-year-old Lara Knutson of Lilburn, Ga., in the Gwinnett County Courthours in Lawrenceville, Ga.

Sept. 1989: The Karr's twins — Angel and Innocence — die in childbirth and are buried in the New Cooper Cemetery outside Hamilton.

1991–2000: The Karrs have three sons while living in Hamilton.

August–September 1996: Karr served as a substitute teacher at Hamilton Elementary School.

2000: Karr and his wife move to Petaluma, Calif.

December 2000–April 2001: Karr works in the Petaluma School District as a substitute schoolteacher.

April 2001: Karr is arrested and jailed in Sonoma County, Calif., on five counts of possessing child *advertiser censored*.

October 2001: Karr is released on his own recognizance but later fails to show up in court. He and his wife get divorced.

April 2002: The California Commission on Teacher Credentialling suspends Karr's teaching credentials for allegedly committing an offense "involving aiding and abetting the unlawful sale, use or exchange to minors of controlled substances," according to the minutes of the commission's meeting.

2001-2005: According to a resume posted online, Karr taught in Asia in 2001 and 2002 and lists additional teaching work in 2004 and '05 in Honduras. It also says Karr taught English to executives in Costa Rica. The posting says Karr worked as a private teacher and care-giver in Germany and the Netherlands.

2006: University of Colorado journalism professor Michael Tracey contacts police about his e-mail communication with Karr after the e-mails take an allegedly bizarre turn. Tracey was the producer of a controversial documentary in 1998 that challenges the presumption of the Ramseys' guilt and takes the media to task for coverage of the case. He and Karr had been communicating by e-mail for several years.

June 6, 2006: Karr arrives in Bangkok from Malaysia to look for a teaching job.

Aug. 17, 2006: Karr is arrested in Bangkok, Thailand, in the slaying of JonBenet Ramsey.

Aug. 18, 2006: Karr tells reporters: "I am so very sorry for what happened to JonBenet. It's very important for me that everyone knows that I love her very much, that her death was unintentional, that it was an accident."

http://www.pulsejournal.com/school/content/shared/news/stories/JONBENET_TIMELINE_0818_COX.html

 

[Zelda]

I could be wrong, but I have the impression that at the time D.A.s team in Boulder got the warrant, they did not know about the reporting of Karr's alleged confession five years earlier.

What happened five years ago. I've missed something here.

 

[narlacat]

What happened five years ago. I've missed something here.

Zelda
Go to page two, there's a thread 'woman says Karr confessed to her 5 years ago'...something like that.
Explains it there.