Brendan Dassey's Habeas Corpus Petition Granted

[Karinna]

I don't disagree with you at all, I think it is more likely than not her remains, but I agree that there is enough reasonable doubt there, especially considering how the "crime scene" was handled, or not handled.

I also agree about TH's family, I think I would want more "proof", JMO.

Definitely. I am just going by my own personal experiences on that because my 23 yr. old son was killed by a drunk driver in another state and we had to wait a week to get his body flown home for the funeral after the state where he died released his body. My first reaction was denial, that no they made a mistake it couldn't be my son. I had to see for myself that it was really him, and even when i did, i was still in shock & denial, but at least eventually it did sink in that it was in fact true.
I can't imagine a scenario such as what the Halbach family has had to go through and how i would ever find resolution if it couldn't be 100% proven it was my child. It is very sad if that is the case.

 

[Madeleine74]

Case amnesia seems to have developed.

There was evidence (and accompanying testimony) that some muscle tissue was still attached to one of TH's leg bones and DNA was able to be extracted from that muscle tissue to develop a DNA profile. That DNA profile matched DNA that was developed from a pap test that TH had recently had during an exam.

So the pap test was the known source and the bone w/muscle still attached was the questioned source (i.e. whose bone & muscle was it). The testing showed it was TH's. (see state exhibit 385 - Photo of bone fragments and muscle tissue and transcripts from Avery trial for testimony about the DNA testing).

 

[Karinna]

Case amnesia seems to have developed.

There was evidence (and accompanying testimony) that some muscle tissue was still attached to one of TH's leg bones and DNA was able to be extracted from that muscle tissue to develop a DNA profile. That DNA profile matched DNA that was developed from a pap test that TH had recently had during an exam.

So the pap test was the known source and the bone w/muscle still attached was the questioned source (i.e. whose bone & muscle was it). The testing showed it was TH's. (see state exhibit 385 - Photo of bone fragments and muscle tissue and transcripts from Avery trial for testimony about the DNA testing).

So how do you or anyone else explain this from forensic studies?
(quote)
This is not surprising, as many studies have shown that DNA cannot withstand high heat exposure — such as the heat alleged to have been generated in the raging bonfire.

I would imagine that goes for DNA on any other body part that is exposed to high heat exposure as well? I am certainly not convinced about the testing done on anything in this case because all of it has been thrown into doubt.

 

[Madeleine74]

I don't explain anything, as I'm not a scientist nor a criminalist, nor a fire expert, nor someone involved in the case.

I just follow the testimony and see the evidence presented. My suggestion is to look at the trial testimony as that is the only record that matters. You can see what questions were asked by both the state and the defense about that particular evidence.

 

[Karinna]

Here is another interesting article.
(Quote)
I am not convinced that the remains (from who knows where) matched Teresa Halbach. In fact, there is no chain of custody to reflect how Culhane even received the bone into her lab. Dr. Eisenberg testified that she shipped it directly to the FBI after identifying it as human remains. Sherry wouldn’t have received it before Culhane, as it wouldn’t have been identified as human at that point. If there is no proof there were remains on the property (there isn’t) and there is no conclusive identification of the remains (there isn’t), how can Avery be responsible for Teresa’s death? We’re left with nothing but the car on the property and the (very questionable) blood inside. Is that enough evidence to prove a person was murdered there? Or anywhere for that matter?

It doesn’t add up. IF a shin bone survived, the teeth should have survived! It is impossible to trust any of this evidence.
https://stopwrongfulconvictions.wor...were-the-remains-identified-via-junk-science/

 

[Karinna]

I don't explain anything, as I'm not a scientist nor a criminalist, nor a fire expert, nor someone involved in the case.

I just follow the testimony and see the evidence presented. My suggestion is to look at the trial testimony as that is the only record that matters. You can see what questions were asked by both the state and the defense about that particular evidence.

Which doesn't really help if the whole trial was a farce to convict SA & BD. And certainly not the first time a wrongful conviction has been brought about. There are & have been lots of cases of innocent people wrongfully convicted and time will tell if this is another such case? We will see i guess.

 

[missy1974]

Definitely. I am just going by my own personal experiences on that because my 23 yr. old son was killed by a drunk driver in another state and we had to wait a week to get his body flown home for the funeral after the state where he died released his body. My first reaction was denial, that no they made a mistake it couldn't be my son. I had to see for myself that it was really him, and even when i did, i was still in shock & denial, but at least eventually it did sink in that it was in fact true.
I can't imagine a scenario such as what the Halbach family has had to go through and how i would ever find resolution if it couldn't be 100% proven it was my child. It is very sad if that is the case.

From personal experience, I also agree. I need proof, without proof, there are always questions. JMO

 

[Limaes]

A very well written rebuttal to Duffin's decision. In my opinion, it is the best article ever written regarding this case and he gives clear examples to explain his opinion. It is a long article but I am including here a very bizarre and very unethical action by Judge Duffin.


"Duffin doesn’t think so, and to back this up, he cites a book on false confessions co-written by Steven Drizin...Brendan Dassey’s attorney. *Seriously: "

Intuitively, one would not expect Dassey to provide the level of detail he did on March 1 had he not been involved in the events he described. The prosecution emphasized as much in its closing argument: “People who are innocent don’t confess in the detail provided to the extent this defendant provided it. They don’t do that.” (ECF No. 19-23 at 144.) Research, however, shows that some people do make detailed confessions to crimes they did not commit. (ECF No. 19-27 at 202-08); see also Steven A. Drizin & Richard A. Leo, The Problem of False Confessions in the Post-DNA World, 82 N.C. L. Rev. 891, 933-43 (2004).


Judge Duffin citing a book co-authored by Dassey's attorney as a reference is disgraceful and pretty dumb. I feel very confident that the State will win their appeal.

http://newstalk1130.iheart.com/onai...50465/?desktop=true&desktopviewduration=86400

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[missy1974]

It's not a book, it is an article in the North Carolina Law Review, from March 2004. Anyone interested in reading about 125 documented interrogation induced false confessions will find it very interesting. Those that do not think false confessions exist, will probably not.

Someone who mainly works with cases involving false confessions, like Steven Drizin, I find it only logical that his past cases or law review articles can, may, and will be cited when dealing with a false confession, whether he is representing the accused or not. JMO

http://www.reid.com/pdfs/20111020-drizin.pdf

 

[Limaes]

It's not a book, it is an article in the North Carolina Law Review, from March 2004. Anyone interested in reading about 125 documented interrogation induced false confessions will find it very interesting. Those that do not think false confessions exist, will probably not.

Someone who mainly works with cases involving false confessions, like Steven Drizin, I find it only logical that his past cases or law review articles can, may, and will be cited when dealing with a false confession, whether he is representing the accused or not. JMO

http://www.reid.com/pdfs/20111020-drizin.pdf

Not when it is the Judge and the co-author is the Attorney of the Defendant.

It is laughable that KK being in a band 30 yrs ago with Schimel is considered unethical but what this Judge has done is deemed ok.

Maybe by the time the State's appeal is being reviewed, KK'S book will be completed and the Judge could use that as a reference to overturn Duffin's decision?

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[Karinna]

A very well written rebuttal to Duffin's decision. In my opinion, it is the best article ever written regarding this case and he gives clear examples to explain his opinion. It is a long article but I am including here a very bizarre and very unethical action by Judge Duffin.


"Duffin doesn’t think so, and to back this up, he cites a book on false confessions co-written by Steven Drizin...Brendan Dassey’s attorney. *Seriously: "

Intuitively, one would not expect Dassey to provide the level of detail he did on March 1 had he not been involved in the events he described. The prosecution emphasized as much in its closing argument: “People who are innocent don’t confess in the detail provided to the extent this defendant provided it. They don’t do that.” (ECF No. 19-23 at 144.) Research, however, shows that some people do make detailed confessions to crimes they did not commit. (ECF No. 19-27 at 202-08); see also Steven A. Drizin & Richard A. Leo, The Problem of False Confessions in the Post-DNA World, 82 N.C. L. Rev. 891, 933-43 (2004).


Judge Duffin citing a book co-authored by Dassey's attorney as a reference is disgraceful and pretty dumb. I feel very confident that the State will win their appeal.

http://newstalk1130.iheart.com/onai...50465/?desktop=true&desktopviewduration=86400

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BBM, I think Magistrate Judge William Duffin's 91 page decision to overturn Dassey's conviction was based on more than you mention. I am willing to give him a bit more credit than that seeing as he is a very experienced man in his field, otherwise he would not be in the position he is in.
As far as the state winning anything we will see.

 

[Karinna]

I also think most of us would know the ramifications to the state of WI in not appealing the decision in Dassey's overturned conviction, and what that would mean for them if they didn't fight this as much as they can. I think it was a slam dunk that they would do this, IMO.

 

[Limaes]

Of course they would appeal it. If Duffin decided against BD, they would also have appealed. It was never going to stop there imo.

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[Karinna]

Of course they would appeal it. If Duffin decided against BD, they would also have appealed. It was never going to stop there imo.

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My point was that the state appealed Duffin's decision because if they didn't it would be like admitting they screwed up, and the state will never admit to any wrongdoing, they would lose face, and would have to compensate an innocent 16 year old that got railroaded for wrongfully imprisoning him taking away a good part of his life. They wanted to win at all costs and still do no matter if people are innocently rotting in prison. The state would never of taken this lying down, IMO.
As far as Duffin not granting Dassey his petition who knows because it didn't work out that way.

 

[Karinna]

Wonder why the state of WI doesn't want a retrial for BD, because that was an option? No evidence perhaps against BD, too hard to prove anything without the coerced confession? Yeah i bet.

 

[Limaes]

They are appealing it because they believe he is guilty. They have already successfully taken him to trial. They must believe that Duffin made errors and feel confident that his decision will be overuled.

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[Karinna]

They are appealing it because they believe he is guilty. They have already successfully taken him to trial. They must believe that Duffin made errors and feel confident that his decision will be overuled.

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Disagree.

 

[Karinna]

Excellent & interesting article that i found on another site.

(quote)
Confessions are infallible because innocent people never confess.
We now
know that this is not true. Innocent people do confess with surprising regularity.
Harsh interrogation tactics, a variant of Stockholm syndrome, the desire to end the
ordeal, emotional and financial exhaustion, family considerations and the youth or
feeble-mindedness of the suspect can result in remarkably detailed confessions that
are later shown to be utterly false.
http://georgetownlawjournal.org/files/2015/06/Kozinski_Preface.pdf

 

[IDK]

Excellent & interesting article that i found on another site.

(quote)
Confessions are infallible because innocent people never confess.
We now
know that this is not true. Innocent people do confess with surprising regularity.
Harsh interrogation tactics, a variant of Stockholm syndrome, the desire to end the
ordeal, emotional and financial exhaustion, family considerations and the youth or
feeble-mindedness of the suspect can result in remarkably detailed confessions that
are later shown to be utterly false.
http://georgetownlawjournal.org/files/2015/06/Kozinski_Preface.pdf

I totally agree with all your previous statements, Karinna. I also don't find it odd that Duffin used a quote from Drizin's book/article. Drizin is an accepted and accomplished authority in the field, so......

Also, Karinna, I just wanted to say that I am very sorry for your loss. Thanks for sharing your perspective, as it is important to understand what might be going through the minds of t TH's family members. Hugs to you, Karinna.

 

[Karinna]

I totally agree with all your previous statements, Karinna. I also don't find it odd that Duffin used a quote from Drizin's book/article. Drizin is an accepted and accomplished authority in the field, so......

Also, Karinna, I just wanted to say that I am very sorry for your loss. Thanks for sharing your perspective, as it is important to understand what might be going through the minds of t TH's family members. Hugs to you, Karinna.

Thankyou for your kind words IDK.