Brendan Dassey's Habeas Corpus Petition Granted

[RANCH]

I'm saying TH was already reduced down to bits, pieces, and rubble just from her murder and burning. So little of her was left before anyone could find her. Her clothes...burned down to nothing except for a rivet, a zipper. Bones with steel belts intertwined. She very well could have been missed altogether except for a trained K9 who could find her scent.

When I read the WI protocol for body preservation and saw what was listed as needing to be left untouched, all I could think was that whoever did this to TH left almost nothing and I saw the irony in that. People are focusing on LE, but TH's desecration was days before LE ever stepped on site and reading that protocol really brought home how heinous her death and disposal was.

Did you read the WI protocol or the one posted up thread from Milwaukee County?

I found this on the Manitowoc County website.

Why is the Coroner's Office involved?

Wisconsin State Statute 979 sets the guidelines for Coroners and Medical Examiners in Wisconsin. All deaths in Manitowoc County regardless of cause and manner are reportable to the Coroner's office. The Coroner and/or Deputy Coroner will determine if our office will need to investigate deaths reported to our office.

Wisconsin State Statue 979 talks about reporting deaths to the Coroner or ME and other matters but not all of the protocols that Milwaukee County apparently requires. I'm not sure what laws were broken in regard to the Coroner not being allowed on scene. Maybe I'm missing something.


http://www.co.manitowoc.wi.us/departments/a-c/coroner/faqs/

http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/979.pdf

 

[missy1974]

The coroner was NOT called (means to me that it was NOT reported to her imo) She found out about the remains from television. Her decision was to obviously investigate, evident by getting a forensic anthropologist lines up and she went to the scene and was not allowed on scene.

Jmo

 

[Karinna]

Did you read the WI protocol or the one posted up thread from Milwaukee County?

I found this on the Manitowoc County website.


Wisconsin State Statue 979 talks about reporting deaths to the Coroner or ME and other matters but not all of the protocols that Milwaukee County apparently requires. I'm not sure what laws were broken in regard to the Coroner not being allowed on scene. Maybe I'm missing something.


http://www.co.manitowoc.wi.us/departments/a-c/coroner/faqs/

http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/979.pdf

If you refer to what K. Zellner said about that she mentions that was a Violation of WI statute. So i guess being an Attorney she would know that.
In most places a death at home or in a public place requires a Coroner i think?

 

[RANCH]

The coroner was NOT called (means to me that it was NOT reported to her imo) She found out about the remains from television. Her decision was to obviously investigate, evident by getting a forensic anthropologist lines up and she went to the scene and was not allowed on scene.

Jmo

Statute 979 does say that LE "shall immediately notify" the Coroner or ME. So if your correct that is the only part of the statute that was violated. Not barring the Coroner from the scene. JMO

 

[RANCH]

If you refer to what K. Zellner said about that she mentions that was a Violation of WI statute. So i guess being an Attorney she would know that.
In most places a death at home or in a public place requires a Coroner i think?

I'm trying to figure out what statute was violated.

 

[Karinna]

Wisconsin Coroners and Medical Examiners Association
C/MEs are prof
essional medicolegal death investigators. Our duty is not limited to pronouncing
death and removing the body. Our profession combines medical and forensic science to perform
independent investigations into the cause and manner of death. The job we do eve
ryday is one
the average citizen doesn’t even want to think about, but one that it necessary and important.
http://www.wcmea.com/media/305/manitowoc_response.pdf

 

[Karinna]

I'm trying to figure out what statute was violated.

 A sheriff or police chief shall, immediately upon notification under sub. (1) or s. 948.23 (1) (b) of a death, notify the coroner or the medical examiner, and the coroner or medical examiner of the county where death took place, if the crime, injury, or event occurred in another county, shall immediately report the death to the coroner or medical examiner of that county.
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/979/01

 

[RANCH]

 A sheriff or police chief shall, immediately upon notification under sub. (1) or s. 948.23 (1) (b) of a death, notify the coroner or the medical examiner, and the coroner or medical examiner of the county where death took place, if the crime, injury, or event occurred in another county, shall immediately report the death to the coroner or medical examiner of that county.
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/979/01

Yes. I posted the same up thread. I'm trying to see if barring the Coroner from the scene violated any Wisconsin statutes.

 

[Karinna]

Yes. I posted the same up thread. I'm trying to see if barring the Coroner from the scene violated any Wisconsin statutes.

Well for starters they violated the statute where the ME/Coroner needs to be immediately notified of the death. I think from there it would of been the ME/Coroner's call as to whether the coroner attends the scene or not, not LE's call IMO. Coroners & LE usually work together.

 

[Karinna]

In all cases of death reportable under sub. (1) or s. 948.23 (1) (b) where an autopsy is not performed, the coroner or medical examiner may take for analysis any and all specimens, body fluids and any other material which will assist him or her in determining the cause of death. The specimens, body fluids and other material taken under this subsection shall not be admissible in evidence in any civil action against the deceased or the deceased's estate, as the result of any act of the deceased.

 

[Karinna]

So from my reading of that the ME/Coroner had every right to take whatever they needed from the crime scene to determine COD. She was barred from doing so.

 

[RANCH]

Well for starters they violated the statute where the ME/Coroner needs to be immediately notified of the death. I think from there it would of been the ME/Coroner's call as to whether the coroner attends the scene or not, not LE's call IMO. Coroners & LE usually work together.

I say again, I agree that not immediately notifying the Coroner is an apparent violation of Wisconsin Statute 979.

I don't know if it's the Coroners call to attend the scene. I can't find it in Wisconsin statute.

Different government agency's sometimes don't get along. Power trips and all.

 

[RANCH]

So from my reading of that the ME/Coroner had every right to take whatever they needed from the crime scene to determine COD. She was barred from doing so.

Well link it up so I can check it out.

What I saw in the link I provided to statute 979 the ME/Coroner can use "materials" to determine the COD. I didn't read where they were the only ones allowed to collect those materials. JMO

 

[Karinna]

From what i know of a death that happens at home or in a public place, after ambulance have attended and the person dies, then LE are there and treat it as if a crime scene. They then notify the Coroner and have to wait for the Coroner to attend and make their determination, the Coroner also take photos at the scene of death and when they are done the body is able to be removed to the morgue for autopsy. The Coroner after autopsy determines the cause of death, and then the body of the person is released to the funeral home for the funeral arrangements. So the ME/Coroner's job is a very important one.

 

[Karinna]

Well link it up so I can check it out.

What I saw in the link I provided to statute 979 the ME/Coroner can use "materials" to determine the COD. I didn't read where they were the only ones allowed to collect those materials. JMO

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/979/01

 

[Karinna]

The ME/Coroner is usually the person as far as i know who determines the cause of death after autopsy is done, not LE. Because LE don't perform autopsies.

 

[RANCH]

From what i know of a death that happens at home or in a public place, after ambulance have attended and the person dies, then LE are there and treat it as if a crime scene. They then notify the Coroner and have to wait for the Coroner to attend and make their determination, the Coroner also take photos at the scene of death and when they are done the body is able to be removed to the morgue for autopsy. The Coroner after autopsy determines the cause of death, and then the body of the person is released to the funeral home for the funeral arrangements. So the ME/Coroner's job is a very important one.

I was with my dad when he died at home and nothing like that happened. Same when my uncle died at home. LE was present after my uncle's unexpected death. No ME/Coroner or autopsy.

Not my opinion. FACT.

 

[Karinna]

I was with my dad when he died at home and nothing like that happened. Same when my uncle died at home. LE was present after my uncle's unexpected death. No ME/Coroner or autopsy.

Not my opinion. FACT.

I don't know why in your case that would of happened?

 

[RANCH]

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/979/01

Oh come on. That's a link to the same statute that I've been using. That statute does not say that the ME or Coroner has a right to be at a crime scene to collect evidence.

 

[RANCH]

I don't know why in your case that would of happened?

With my dad it's because he was under a doctors care and terminal.

With my uncle he was under a doctors care and LE found no sign of it being a homicide. He had just had his pacemaker replaced a few days before. It was suspected that an infection developed that caused his death. No way to know for sure because the ME wouldn't do an autopsy and family couldn't afford to pay for one.