Brendan Dassey's Habeas Corpus Petition Granted

[proudfootz]

Berg's examples of details Dassey gave were appallingly weak. I have to imagine if he was going to throw things out there, he wouldn't pick something especially bad. I mean, a woman who was at that point kidnapped and raped was crying? Doesn't take much imagination.
The body burning smelling bad? Brendan has been to/around Avery bonfires before where tires were used. It doesn't take any imagination at all, just a memory of a prior bonfire.

I think the lack of a list might have something to do with giving the state wiggle room. It keeps their own claims of what is true and what isn't a little more fluid. The less exacting they are in what they claim to be true, the harder it is to pin them down and argue a point. They can move the goalposts, so to speak, when someone gets near one.

BBM

Brendan is prompted to say something about the smell of the bonfire where supposedly a human corpse was burned.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...assey-Interview-Transcript-2006May13_text.pdf

Page 56/109

If the smell coming off such a fire is as uniquely horrible as everyone says, then it is curious no one else smelled this fire they allegedly saw that day.

Something else that I know from having bonfires of my own - you come away from the fire and the smell of it is all over you and your clothes. So Brendan apparently waltzes into his home and talks to his mother at 8:00 PM while stinking of a burning human corpse?

Something stinks, and it's not coming from Steven's fire pit.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

Feb 27th interview at the school

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...rview-at-School-Transcript-2006Feb27_text.pdf

Page 4/5

FASSBENDER: . . . and that’s nice to know. It’s not something that, that I mean we knew
that. I’m more interested in what you probably saw in that fire or something. We know she was put in that fire, there’s no doubt about it. The evidence speaks for itself. And you were out there with him. And unfortunately I’m afraid you saw something that you wished you never would have seen. You know, I mean, and that’s what we need to know. We get that off your chest and we can move forward. That’s the important thing we need to, to get out right now, for you. Cuz you’re having a tough go of it, and it’s not just cuz’ you can’t see Steve but what you saw. Did you see a hand, a foot, something in that fire? Her bones? Did you smell something that was not too right?

BRENDAN: Well we weren’t there for long........ picking up the stuff

______________________________________________________

Page 12/13

FASSBENDER: Okay ... a human body . . . did you say anything to Steven? .... Was he hoping you didn’t see that or what?
BRENDAN: .....
FASSBENDER: Where? The body parts that you saw, were they on top of tires or underneath the tires, or?
BRENDAN: ......
FASSBENDER: Pardon?
BRENDAN: .......bottom of tires
FASSBENDER: Underneath the bottom ofthe tires.
BRENDAN:
FASSBENDER: Could you smell them?
BRENDAN: No...

---

Feb 27th interview at Station
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...view-at-Station-Transcript-2006Feb27_text.pdf

No mention of smell.

---

March 1st interview (which is the one that was introduced in the trial)

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...assey-Interview-Transcript-2006Mar01_text.pdf
Page 113

FASSBENDER: We talked about Monday night about, um, bad smells and stuff, do you remember any smells coming from that fire, after she was put on there?
BRENDAN: Just that it smelled bad.

---

Brendan never brings up the smell himself, he is always prompted.


March 1st was a Wednesday in 2006. In Fassbenders question to BD... we talked about Monday night about, um... In reading this, I wonder, is he talking about Monday night, February 27th? When BD and his mother were taken to Fox Hills Resort for the night? when it wasn't recorded!?! :thinking:

ETA: any reference to "Monday" in that whole interview on March 1st was in reference to when they talked to him on Monday. Interesting, because according to the February 27th interviews that WERE recorded, Brendan said "no" when asked if he could smell them (body parts).

 

[proudfootz]

Well spotted!

KK in his promotion of his new book makes mention of this 'spontaneous testimony' about the the smell:

"In the May 13th interview, Brendan makes chilling admissions, with reasonable specificity and almost no prompting by the investigators.

...

​

He describes the horrible smell of a burning body - a smell that those unfortunate enough to experience can tell you they will never forget."
​

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4223438/Dassey-confession-omitted-Making-Murderer.html

IIRC the smell came up as a point in the oral arguments at the Seventh Circuit Court.

'It smelled bad' is an eloquent description that could only come from someone who smelled it.

JMO.

 

[missy1974]

I should have included this one in my last post... but this is the May 13th interview.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...assey-Interview-Transcript-2006May13_text.pdf

Page 56

WIEGERT: What did it smell like? What did it smell like?
BRENDAN: Real bad.


This is the interview that the one judge wanted to know why they didn't use in trial. Was it not used because the State didn't use it, or was there a ruling by the Courts. The judge seemed convinced that the call to mom, was a result of this:

FASSBENDER: Mark mentioned talkin’ to your mom about this and being truthful with
her now. OK? If you’re truly sorry to the Halbachs, you’ll be, you’ll tell your mother the truth
about this. OK?
WIEGERT: Are you gonna do that?
BRENDAN: Yeah.
WIEGERT: When your gonna do that?
BRENDAN: Tonight.
WIEGERT: OK. Probably be a good idea before we tell her. That be the right thing to do. Your mom deserves ta know. OK?
BRENDAN: Mm huh. (nods “yes”)

 

[proudfootz]

There is just so much wrong with these coaching sessions the police conducted with Brendan that every time I go back to them I find another shocking lapse of ethical judgement from the fellows on the public payroll.

 

[Karinna]

There is just so much wrong with these coaching sessions the police conducted with Brendan that every time I go back to them I find another shocking lapse of ethical judgement from the fellows on the public payroll.

I agree, it's just horrible and so wrong IMO.

 

[Saul Vesalot]

BBM

The problem I have with that is there is no comparison to the smell of tires burning and a human being being burned up.

Tires being burned doesn't smell anything like a burned human being.

Correct. The burning of the body would probably have been the worst thing he ever experienced in his entire life. The whole event would have been a waking nightmare for him, especially if he was being forced to do this stuff by Steven.

Unless I missed something, he never describe anything like that at all. He is as vague as a student trying to bluff their way through a book report.

 

[Saul Vesalot]

There is just so much wrong with these coaching sessions the police conducted with Brendan that every time I go back to them I find another shocking lapse of ethical judgement from the fellows on the public payroll.

I don't think I have ever disagreed with you so much before. This case does not show anything like lapses in ethical judgement. It shows there is no ethical judgement to have gaps in. The investigators of this case scare me much more than Steven Avery does.

 

[missy1974]

Well spotted!

KK in his promotion of his new book makes mention of this 'spontaneous testimony' about the the smell:

"In the May 13th interview, Brendan makes chilling admissions, with reasonable specificity and almost no prompting by the investigators.

...

​

He describes the horrible smell of a burning body - a smell that those unfortunate enough to experience can tell you they will never forget."
​

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4223438/Dassey-confession-omitted-Making-Murderer.html

IIRC the smell came up as a point in the oral arguments at the Seventh Circuit Court.

'It smelled bad' is an eloquent description that could only come from someone who smelled it.

JMO.

Interesting that he is now relying on the May 13th interview. Here is some of KK's testimony from a 2010 post conviction hearing.

Q. Okay. Now, um, do you remember the word you used, Ken, when I spoke to you about the events of May 13?

A. Yes

Q What was that word?

A Fiasco

Q Okay. And why was that a fiasco?

A Well, that was -- that was, uh, paraphrasing Mr. Wiegert and Fassbender's characterization of their interview with Brendan. They walked into that interview very much expecting a very clear and concise and even cooperative subject. And they didn't get that.

Q Okay. In fact, when Brendan began that interview he had reverted back to the very first story that he told the investigators about only being present during the fire with Steven; correct?

A Brendan made some inconsistent statements during that May 13 interview. That's correct.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dcgp05frgt2iyk/2010-PCH-Kratz.pdf?dl=0

page 86/87 (shows 96/97 on the bottom of the scanned page)

 

[proudfootz]

I don't think I have ever disagreed with you so much before. This case does not show anything like lapses in ethical judgement. It shows there is no ethical judgement to have gaps in. The investigators of this case scare me much more than Steven Avery does.

Well, then!

We'll have to agree to disagree - but I could be persuaded if I think about it some more.

 

[missy1974]

Well, then!

We'll have to agree to disagree - but I could be persuaded if I think about it some more.

hmmm ... I could be wrong... but I think Saul was just saying that there was no ethical judgement to begin with... can't have a lapse in something that doesn't exist!

Or.. I could be wrong ... lol I'm sure Saul will pop in and let us know LOL

 

[dexter75]

.
OMG! :gasp:

I don't ever want to smell that smell! I'm so sorry for you OBE!

I would like to add we cannot speculate on this topic. IMHO, Brendan appears to be Autistic.

Autistic children have a heightened sense of sensory, whether it is sounds, tastes, smells, touch. For example, if you put a feather in an Autistic person's hand it may feel like tar paper to them whereas it feels soft and fluffy and may tickle to someone that is not Autistic.

I am in no way saying the feather example above is an experience of ALL Autistic children, but just wanted to use it as an example of a difference involving a child with a touch sensitivity. My son has a sensitivity to sounds. The mere sound of a fire engine sends him into a sensory overload.

My whole point is that you cannot relate your own experiences (as horrible as they were) as the same experience when you are dealing with a child with special needs, especially one that has Autism. We cannot speculate as to whether or not Brendan attributed the smell of the tires burning in a prior bonfire as the same as someone being burned in a fire.

Very well stated

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[dexter75]

Feb 27th interview at the school

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...rview-at-School-Transcript-2006Feb27_text.pdf

Page 4/5

FASSBENDER: . . . and that’s nice to know. It’s not something that, that I mean we knew
that. I’m more interested in what you probably saw in that fire or something. We know she was put in that fire, there’s no doubt about it. The evidence speaks for itself. And you were out there with him. And unfortunately I’m afraid you saw something that you wished you never would have seen. You know, I mean, and that’s what we need to know. We get that off your chest and we can move forward. That’s the important thing we need to, to get out right now, for you. Cuz you’re having a tough go of it, and it’s not just cuz’ you can’t see Steve but what you saw. Did you see a hand, a foot, something in that fire? Her bones? Did you smell something that was not too right?

BRENDAN: Well we weren’t there for long........ picking up the stuff

______________________________________________________

Page 12/13

FASSBENDER: Okay ... a human body . . . did you say anything to Steven? .... Was he hoping you didn’t see that or what?
BRENDAN: .....
FASSBENDER: Where? The body parts that you saw, were they on top of tires or underneath the tires, or?
BRENDAN: ......
FASSBENDER: Pardon?
BRENDAN: .......bottom of tires
FASSBENDER: Underneath the bottom ofthe tires.
BRENDAN:
FASSBENDER: Could you smell them?
BRENDAN: No...

---

Feb 27th interview at Station
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...view-at-Station-Transcript-2006Feb27_text.pdf

No mention of smell.

---

March 1st interview (which is the one that was introduced in the trial)

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...assey-Interview-Transcript-2006Mar01_text.pdf
Page 113

FASSBENDER: We talked about Monday night about, um, bad smells and stuff, do you remember any smells coming from that fire, after she was put on there?
BRENDAN: Just that it smelled bad.

---

Brendan never brings up the smell himself, he is always prompted.


March 1st was a Wednesday in 2006. In Fassbenders question to BD... we talked about Monday night about, um... In reading this, I wonder, is he talking about Monday night, February 27th? When BD and his mother were taken to Fox Hills Resort for the night? when it wasn't recorded!?! :thinking:

ETA: any reference to "Monday" in that whole interview on March 1st was in reference to when they talked to him on Monday. Interesting, because according to the February 27th interviews that WERE recorded, Brendan said "no" when asked if he could smell them (body parts).

Grrrrrrr!!!
Doesn't matter how many times I have seen these!!
Each time I do I get so pissed!!!!

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[dexter75]

hmmm ... I could be wrong... but I think Saul was just saying that there was no ethical judgement to begin with... can't have a lapse in something that doesn't exist!

Or.. I could be wrong ... lol I'm sure Saul will pop in and let us know LOL

That's how I read it too!
The investigators had ZERO morals, ethics, judgement to begin with.
None.
Zilch.

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[Saul Vesalot]

That's how I read it too!
The investigators had ZERO morals, ethics, judgement to begin with.
None.
Zilch.

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Yep, just that. The more I see of these guys, the less I think they behaved oddly for this case. IE, that the shoddy work, lazy thinking, and coercive confession stuff is just standard practice for them.

It would be interesting to see this much information about a different case these guys handled for comparison.

 

[proudfootz]

hmmm ... I could be wrong... but I think Saul was just saying that there was no ethical judgement to begin with... can't have a lapse in something that doesn't exist!

Or.. I could be wrong ... lol I'm sure Saul will pop in and let us know LOL

I'm sure you're right. My response was meant to be humorous.

I should've put a smiley on it!

JMO

 

[missy1974]

I'm sure you're right. My response was meant to be humorous.

I should've put a smiley on it!

JMO

Well... dang LOL sorry :happydance:

 

[proudfootz]

Grrrrrrr!!!
Doesn't matter how many times I have seen these!!
Each time I do I get so pissed!!!!

SBM

On another discussion board, people kept asking what I found so objectionable about these coaching sessions, and I was perplexed at how to respond. If they couldn't see that Brendan was being fed the details and his 'narrative' being shaped by the police to fit their 'theory' of the crime by reading it for themselves, I was puzzled at how I could persuade them to see what I was seeing reading the exact same text.

It goes against my optimistic nature to give up on people like that, but for my own peace of mind that's the best thing for me to do. If they don't see how the way Brendan was manipulated was wrong there is a fundamental difference between us and I'm not sure any amount of argument from me can bridge that gap.

My own opinion, as per usual.

 

[missy1974]

SBM

On another discussion board, people kept asking what I found so objectionable about these coaching sessions, and I was perplexed at how to respond. If they couldn't see that Brendan was being fed the details and his 'narrative' being shaped by the police to fit their 'theory' of the crime by reading it for themselves, I was puzzled at how I could persuade them to see what I was seeing reading the exact same text.

It goes against my optimistic nature to give up on people like that, but for my own peace of mind that's the best thing for me to do. If they don't see how the way Brendan was manipulated was wrong there is a fundamental difference between us and I'm not sure any amount of argument from me can bridge that gap.

My own opinion, as per usual.

BBM

omg, you couldn't have put this in better words. I have come to this conclusion myself in regards to Brendan, and MANY other aspects of this case.

 

[dexter75]

SBM

On another discussion board, people kept asking what I found so objectionable about these coaching sessions, and I was perplexed at how to respond. If they couldn't see that Brendan was being fed the details and his 'narrative' being shaped by the police to fit their 'theory' of the crime by reading it for themselves, I was puzzled at how I could persuade them to see what I was seeing reading the exact same text.

It goes against my optimistic nature to give up on people like that, but for my own peace of mind that's the best thing for me to do. If they don't see how the way Brendan was manipulated was wrong there is a fundamental difference between us and I'm not sure any amount of argument from me can bridge that gap.

My own opinion, as per usual.

Makes me wonder how certain " other " issues are viewed by those same individuals.
Take bullying for instance.
Would this same group of people look at a bully and say " kids will be kids " *shrugs shoulders
Just an example🙄
JMO

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