British student murdered in Perugia, 3 suspects

[Isabella]

I believe everyone is capable of murder, doesn’t matter your color. I’m not going to get into a race discussion with you. That’s not what this is about to me. This crap happens in America as well. It’s about getting justice for Meredith. Justice was not serviced when Amanda Knox was found guilty.

The interrogation was inhuman, the handling by LE was unprofessional and showed bias, the evidence was not there.

Besides to compare Neil Entwistle’s case to this case is like comparing apples to oranges.

In your opinion maybe but...there was nothing wrong with the interrogation. She kept changing her story and lieing..so of course the questioning took time. I dont see the police questioning being any different to it is in America England or any other country.

As for it showing bias..did it show bias against her boyfriend..a ITALIAN??

And im sorry but there was more than enough evidence to convince me that in Amanda Knox they had a lieing evil manipulative woman.

 

[Isabella]

Do we know when during the interrogation process she began "changing her story"?

The 48 Hours broadcast in the States last night (strongly pro-defense) made it seem as if AK changed her account and fingered her boss only after considerable pressure under questioning.

I am in no way defending the blaming of innocent people, but it isn't an uncommon response to vigorous interrogation. And per recent studies, "coerced confessions" are more likely among the young, particularly those without experience dealing with LE.

***

On another note, I believe in one of your posts explaining the Italian judiciary (and thank you very much for those), you said an Italian prosecutor was neither "elected nor appointed". What selection method does that leave?

(I apologize in advance if I am confusing somebody else's words for yours, but I'm curious because I am imagining prosecutors chosen by drawing straws. As I tried to make clear above, I haven't heard a charge against on the Italian judiciary that couldn't also be leveled in the States. Even the sequestering of jurors isn't automatic here, but depends, within guidelines, on the discretion of the presiding judge. It seems to me that sequestration is less common here than it once was.)

The problem is Amanda actually said she saw Patrick killing Meredith which is pretty specific. Another story was she wasnt at home that night and that she was at her boyfriends. ANOTHER story was that she could have been home. I think there was also a version that she dreamed what happened. IIRC there was ctv cameras showing her walking towards her own home that night shortly before the murder. Some months LATER she then claimed all her stories had been under duress because she had been hit on the head. Ok so..if this was true why did she not report it at the time so a investigation could be made? If she was abused why did she not ask her solicitor to take photos or ask to see a Dr? Simple because in my opinion its no more truthful than any other story she had come out with. Also for the record she had in fact been in trouble with the American police before going to Italy so yes she was used to dealing with them.

As for how the Prosecutors are picked..apparently lawyers are promoted after recieving a indictment from the Grand Jury..so i guess lawyers who have good reputations and track records.

 

[Columbo]

Like where exactly and in what way?

I know this is slightly o/t but since you asked: In Poland and Hungary many Jews who tried to return to their homes (after being in concentration camps) were still being discriminated against and killed. People would say things like "I didn't think there were any of you left" but that is a mild example of the mental disconnect. From verbal taunting to actually killing, it still went on. I'm not sure about Germany but I think that most Germans at the time were shamed by what happened during the war.

Many people were in complete denial that the holocaust happened, although they had seen the prisoners, the cattle cars, smelled the crematoriums, seen the smokestacks billowing day and night, heard the stories from those lucky enough to live through it.

In Germany today (and possibly in other European countries--as well as in America) there is a neo-nazi movement. It's scary. I don't understand this kind of hatred--it's so ignorant. Of course, many others besides Jews were killed: gays, gypsies, mentally disabled and more; but the main focus of Hitler's hatred was the Jews.

 

[Isabella]

I know this is slightly o/t but since you asked: In Poland and Hungary many Jews who tried to return to their homes (after being in concentration camps) were still being discriminated against and killed. People would say things like "I didn't think there were any of you left" but that is a mild example of the mental disconnect. From verbal taunting to actually killing, it still went on. I'm not sure about Germany but I think that most Germans at the time were shamed by what happened during the war.

Many people were in complete denial that the holocaust happened, although they had seen the prisoners, the cattle cars, smelled the crematoriums, seen the smokestacks billowing day and night, heard the stories from those lucky enough to live through it.

In Germany today (and possibly in other European countries--as well as in America) there is a neo-nazi movement. It's scary. I don't understand this kind of hatred--it's so ignorant. Of course, many others besides Jews were killed: gays, gypsies, mentally disabled and more; but the main focus of Hitler's hatred was the Jews.

Ah i see what you mean

 

[LinasK]

48 hours is covering this right now, as well as the verdict.

I caught the last 15 min. of the program, and it was very pro-Amanda biased. I have to say for the first time, I'm very disappointed in 48 hours, they just went down to the level of tabloid journalism in my book!

 

[LinasK]

Some interesting facts about Guede..

he moved to Italy when he was 6 years old, and was informally adopted ? by a wealthy local man...he went to good schools, played basketball

however, he fell into drugs, theivery...the family has pretty much disowned him?? calls him a liar,

by her own admission Know "knew" Guede...

and there is a local who has identifed her, Rafael and Guede "together" and claims that Amanda pulled a knife on him when they had a dispute about parking spaces the very day before the murder

~~~~~~~~

Interesting facts about Amanda and Rafael...only knew each other 2 weeks..

I personally think they might be one of those cases where 2 people find each other and bring out the worst in each other??

Amanda, from all accounts, and her own diary, myspace etc...was into drinking,drugs...and had been doing a lot more than studying in Italy...her diary said she had unprotected sex with 7 guys in the short time she was there and she was (oddly) thinking she might have HIV and wondering who gave it to her?? (*her own thoughts...not fact)

Rafael had a similar dark side...pics of him as a vampire, bloody "costume" pics...into "Halloween"....violent comic book fan

Both into Halloween (Meredith was killed Nov 1..day after?)

From all indications Amanda and Meredith did not get along...Amanda too "wild",

she was about to lose her job at the pub for her wild behavior, sexual advances to customers, and irresponsible

Amanda had written odd "story" about gang rape and killing a woman

~~~~~~~~~

My personal thought is that somehow 2 people into sex, drugs, drinking, violent sex, group sex hooked up with a deviant drug dealer friend and thought that it would be "fun" to set up a disliked roommate ...I think they sexually assaulted Meredith and at some point realized that she was going to have them all charged with rape and somehow they killed her as a group

her windpipe was crushed and her throat slit..so it may have been more than one person who attacked her

Amanda is the one who had the key to the apartment and was the roommate and I think she brought the 2 guys there, Meredith was the subject of their unwanted sexual advances, and it doesn't matter who made the fatal cut or ? they were all in it together

Thank-you for such an excellent summarization of the case. For some of the newbies to it, they would do well to read this post!:clap::clap::clap:

 

[LinasK]

I agree 100%. She was damned if she did and damned if she didn't. If she was crying hysterically, she'd be criticized. She did cartwheels, she's criticized. If she wore her hair in a ponytail, she would have been criticized. It's ridiculous how quick people are to judge another based soley on appearances.

Sorry, in my experience, innocent women don't wear bright green to court, do cartwheels, and braid their hair! :snooty:All of that plus going lingerie shopping the day after your roommate is murdered scream narcissist to me, just like Casey Anthony!

 

[Albert18]

The group dynamics of this case is what intrigues me. These three losers only knew each other for a very short time so to commit such an intimate crime together seems odd. There must have been something very sinister at the foundation of this crime.

I think Guede was just out having fun and being a loser.

Raffa??? Does the elevator go all the way to the top floor with this guy? If you reached out to touch this guy would your hand go right through him? I admit I don't understand this guy.

Then we have sweet Amanda. If I remember right I don't believe Italy allows plea bargaining?? If this crime had happened in the US I think after a very short time the investigators would have settled on these three and the focus would have been on getting Guede or Raffa to talk. I think Guede would have sang like a canary. So people who think Amanda would have been found innocent in the US are kidding themselves.

 

[panthera]

Not sure but for such a brutal crime...i would be surprised if she served less than 20 years ( depending on appeals of course).

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/412696_knox30.html

Thanks for the article ~ it gave a lot of insight into their justice system. I also noticed that with good behavior on a 21-year sentence there could be a release after 12 years ~ so you may be about right since hers starts with 26 years. moo

 

[Nova]

I know this is slightly o/t but since you asked: In Poland and Hungary many Jews who tried to return to their homes (after being in concentration camps) were still being discriminated against and killed. People would say things like "I didn't think there were any of you left" but that is a mild example of the mental disconnect. From verbal taunting to actually killing, it still went on. I'm not sure about Germany but I think that most Germans at the time were shamed by what happened during the war.

Many people were in complete denial that the holocaust happened, although they had seen the prisoners, the cattle cars, smelled the crematoriums, seen the smokestacks billowing day and night, heard the stories from those lucky enough to live through it.

In Germany today (and possibly in other European countries--as well as in America) there is a neo-nazi movement. It's scary. I don't understand this kind of hatred--it's so ignorant. Of course, many others besides Jews were killed: gays, gypsies, mentally disabled and more; but the main focus of Hitler's hatred was the Jews.

There's a lengthy and very thoughtful article in this week's Nation by a European of North African descent about the racism (subtle and otherwise) she encounters. It is by no means a hatchet job and it never suggests that racism is peculiarly European.

I wish we could agree that racism is a human problem, though it takes different forms in different societies at different times.

 

[missyjane77]

Sorry, in my experience, innocent women don't wear bright green to court, do cartwheels, and braid their hair! :snooty:All of that plus going lingerie shopping the day after your roommate is murdered scream narcissist to me, just like Casey Anthony!

Seriously?? I know LAWYERS who wear green and braid their hair. This is absolutely ridiculous. Oh, she braided her hair-she's GOT to be guilty. OMG! She has on a green coat-GUILTY! :banghead:

 

[LadyL]

I can see both sides...but I do dislike Europeans telling us about our "racial problems" when the slave sellers were Dutch and English. No Irish people were selling slaves..in fact the last "white" slaves were taken from Ireland in the 1400's , 10,000 stolen from rural Ireland, and shipped to Barbados and Monserrat...which is why many Island people have light eyes, last names like Kelly and Monserrat is the only other country besides Ireland that has St Patricks as a National Holiday <grin> so thanks England

very informative - thank you - now going to google!

we have our own problems however..and one is that many Americans fail to realize that other countries have a different legal system. Even Canada is different..they are appalled that we show court trials on tv and give out so much info.

I'm Canadian & not so much appalled as grateful, being a WS member and all :dance: but I understand the point you're making - we don't even have a publically available national sex offender registry!

Much of the world is appalled that we still have the death penalty (I am not LOL, but the fact is that most "civilized" countries no longer have death penalty)

I've always been anti-d.p. but when I came to WS & started getting exposed to more & more disgusting crimes, sometimes my outrage allows me to be pro-d.p.

I think that most Americans would do well to read the facts of this case. Also , for those non Americans on the board, we would appreciate it if you don't lump us into one pile, thanks

[respectfully snipped & bbm]

great post - there's racism everywhere, including within 'races' for not being the 'right shade' etc.

each one of us on this planet would do well to remember to check our own inherent 'racist' thoughts before casting aspersions elsewhere

:truce:

 

[missyjane77]

Hilary Clinton is willing to hear concerns regarding Amanda Knox verdict:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/06/clinton-busy-willing-hear-concerns-amanda-knox-verdict/

 

[LadyL]

I've seen quite a few people reference her inappropriate court attire. I'm curious because I haven't seen anything I would consider inappropriate. I must've missed a few pics. Can anyone link to pics of her dressed this way?

quoting myself to ask again

I've googled - have yet to see anything inappropriate?

 

[Nova]

Sorry, in my experience, innocent women don't wear bright green to court, do cartwheels, and braid their hair! :snooty:All of that plus going lingerie shopping the day after your roommate is murdered scream narcissist to me, just like Casey Anthony!

I'm not here to argue AK's innocence. As I said, the case is brand-new to me.

But one thing that troubles me as I read here is that so many of the arguments against her deal with post-incident behavior and (lack of) appropriate affect. In my experience, some people just behave oddly in the face of extraordinary circumstances.

Nearly my entire family acts oddly around death. For years, the family business was a funeral home and we were all raised to act "cool" in the face of tragedy. Sometimes we succeed. More often, we just end up acting strange. I could tell you stories of my mother's behavior before and after the death of her other son that would have us all swearing she murdered him. (She did not; he died of natural causes after a long illness.)

***

On a related note, does anyone here speak Italian? In English, "doing cartwheels" is a very common metaphor for "expressing joy." I don't think we can read one phrase without hearing the other to a large extent; but the fact is I don't know why Amanda was doing cartwheels or what that behavior meant to her at the time or whether it had anything to do with happiness on a sad occasion. Is there a similar double meaning in Italian?

 

[Nova]

The group dynamics of this case is what intrigues me. These three losers only knew each other for a very short time so to commit such an intimate crime together seems odd. There must have been something very sinister at the foundation of this crime....

(Emphasis added and original quote excerpted for focus.)

...or it was a simple case of (one) male-on-female violence.

The prosecution's theory of what happened is indeed extraordinary. One needn't be xenophobic or paranoid to want an extraordinary weight of evidence to support such a fantastic tale.

 

[Nova]

I caught the last 15 min. of the program, and it was very pro-Amanda biased. I have to say for the first time, I'm very disappointed in 48 hours, they just went down to the level of tabloid journalism in my book!

I don't consider 48 Hours unbiased here. After all, if AK is guilty, the prosecutor's theory is correct and the verdict is just, then there's no "mystery" and they've got no "show".

 

[ajurk]

quoting myself to ask again

I've googled - have yet to see anything inappropriate?

it's not that she dressed inappropriately, it's just that she "dressed down" she wore normal, everyday clothes. on 48 hours, i saw one day she was wearing a hoodie. i think that most people would dress more professionally in court. i wouldn't show up for a job interview in a hoodie, because i know that i'm being judged and want to be taken seriously...

 

[panthera]

Thank-you for such an excellent summarization of the case. For some of the newbies to it, they would do well to read this post!:clap::clap::clap:

I agree! I am one of those somewhat-newbies since I haven't followed every detail of the case, but just from reading that (and others by this poster) it makes sense that even here in the US she would've been found guilty and the sentence most likely would've been LWOP at the least. moo

 

[MomofBoys]

it's not that she dressed inappropriately, it's just that she "dressed down" she wore normal, everyday clothes. on 48 hours, i saw one day she was wearing a hoodie. i think that most people would dress more professionally in court. i wouldn't show up for a job interview in a hoodie, because i know that i'm being judged and want to be taken seriously...

Didn't she wear that 'All You Need is Love' t-shirt to court? I always found that really squicky for some reason. Her whole countenance in the shots makes it look like she's walking a runway.