British student murdered in Perugia, 3 suspects

[justbeachy]

Do you have a link for that? Thanks.

I'm not the person you were posing this question to and, while I don't have a link handy, I wanted to say that I also heard this reported.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I couldn't agree more. I'd love to find a source that filters out subjective claims about the civilization level of Italians and the weirdness of the defendants after the body was discovered by police.

Yes, me too. I'm not saying that behavior evidence should be thrown out--I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that I want to START with the physical evidence--the crime scene, the house, the body, and go from there. It does me no good to start with AK's behavior at the police or in some lingerie shop or in the courtroom or whether she was smiling when she should have been or not. That doesn't answer the factual questions I have about the case. Because this was a bloody crime scene I need to start with the physical evidence first. There is DNA, there are footprints, fingerprints, blood. That's a great place to start to focus on understanding this case.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I actually get the impression some people think "poor" Amanda is the victim and not Meredith.

Meredith will always be a victim. Whether or not there are any other victims in this case depend on whether AK and/or RS had any part in MK's murder. If they didn't and they are sitting behind bars for the next 25/26 years then yes they too would be 'victims' in this case. I'm not saying they are victims and I'm not saying they aren't. What I am saying is that I don't know (yet).

 

[justbeachy]

No but buying underwear and discussing having sex in a shop later when your flat mate has just been murdered isnt normal.

Unless you are buying underwear because you don't have any and you also don't have access to your home. I can only go commando for so many days before I start to chafe. (edited to add: I meant this as a joke. I should have added a smiley face here!)

I know there are reports that she was buying a g-string, but there are also reports that she was buying conventional underwear. And...at the risk of giving too much personal information...if I were buying underwear for myself for everyday use, regardless of my emotional state, I would still buy a thong. Call me crazy, but I can't stand VPL.

As for the sex conversation, we've gone back and forth about that on here so I won't get into it again.

 

[SleuthyGal]

From all the sites i have read here tho and all the papers comments section i can say the vast majority of this country think the correct verdict was made.

That's likely true. And it's also likely true that the vast majority of people haven't got a working knowledge (let alone any factual knowledge) of this case. People base their opinions on lots of things--how she looks, what clothes she wears, what someone told them to think, etc. I want to base my opinion on facts and reality. Since I don't know (most of) the facts and I'm hearing conflicting stories, I don't yet have an opinion on whether the verdict was a correct one (or not).

 

[Isabella]

No I wasn't in the room but I wish I had been there to hear it all for myself. Were any of the websleuthers there? No? Well then everyone is speculating based on whatever report they read. AK testified in court what the police said to her, to "imagine" what might have happened that night. I saw the video of her testimony. Did the police dispute it? I didn't see or hear anything where they said they didn't say that. So on that I'm going with her testimony in the courtroom. She also wrote about her interrogation, but let's just go with what she said in court.

As for her 'confession' there are like 2 or 3 different versions floating around. One version allegedly has her in the kitchen covering her ears to block out the screaming.

BTW, why did Guede insist during his first 3 or 4 interrogations that A.K. wasn't even in the house? He later changed his story as further interrogations got more aggressive. Why would he protect someone he didn't know?

DNA evidence proves Guede was in the house, and in the murder room. He left lots of evidence of him being there, being in the room, having sex with M.K. Was there evidence of A.K. in M.K.'s room? Any hair? Blood? Skin? Fibers? Footprints? Anything at all? I haven't heard of anything found in the murder room.

I don't know if AK was involved in the crime or not. I'm trying to piece together what evidence links her to the murder. It was a bloody, messy crime scene. 40+ wounds were found on MK's body. She fought hard for her life. I'm looking for the evidence.

Firstly..you said why would Guede protect someone he didnt know? He DID know her..

Secondly why would the police butt in while Amanda was being questioned in court? Maybe it happens in America i have no idea but it doesnt generally happen in Europe.

Yes there are several versions of her confessions floating around. And one at least the cops were no where around when she changed her story yet again./

As for it being a bloody scene..yes Guedes dna was in Meredith ..and reportedly his hand print on her pillow but ive not heard of a great deal of forensic evidence about him either which suggests to me the place was cleaned after they killed her.

 

[Isabella]

That's likely true. And it's also likely true that the vast majority of people haven't got a working knowledge (let alone any factual knowledge) of this case. People base their opinions on lots of things--how she looks, what clothes she wears, what someone told them to think, etc. I want to base my opinion on facts and reality. Since I don't know (most of) the facts and I'm hearing conflicting stories, I don't yet have an opinion on whether the verdict was a correct one (or not).

Im confused why you think people wouldnt have a factual knowledge of the case because they think shes guilty? People here DO have access to the internet, newspapers and tv news and in addition i think its been far less biased than in other countries so some could say..we have MORE of a factual knowledge.

JMO

 

[Isabella]

Unless you are buying underwear because you don't have any and you also don't have access to your home. I can only go commando for so many days before I start to chafe.

I know there are reports that she was buying a g-string, but there are also reports that she was buying conventional underwear. And...at the risk of giving too much personal information...if I were buying underwear for myself for everyday use, regardless of my emotional state, I would still buy a thong. Call me crazy, but I can't stand VPL.

As for the sex conversation, we've gone back and forth about that on here so I won't get into it again.

To be honest you have a point. Maybe people are different to each other.

I just know that I MYSELF would not go into a lingerie shop the day or day after i found my murdered flatmate and talk about how hot it was going to be later that night.

Thats just me i guess. *shrugs*

 

[SleuthyGal]

Firstly..you said why would Guede protect someone he didnt know? He DID know her..

Okay he 'knew' who she was. Why did he say she wasn't in the house? He was interrogated several times. He kept saying she wasn't there! Why?

Yes there are several versions of her confessions floating around. And one at least the cops were no where around when she changed her story yet again.

So which one is correct?

As for it being a bloody scene..yes Guedes dna was in Meredith ..and reportedly his hand print on her pillow but ive not heard of a great deal of forensic evidence about him either which suggests to me the place was cleaned after they killed her.

1. Guede fingerprints/handprint in MK's blood in her room.
2. Guede DNA inside of MK
3. Guede feces left in toilet (and was DNA tested)
4. Guede footprints in MK's blood in hallway and (possibly) bathroom.
5. Guede fingerprints inside MK's purse
6. Guede says he was in the house at the time of the murder.

And that's just the evidence I do know about. I admittedly do not know all the evidence they found. NO ONE disputes that Guede was there and that he was in the murder room and left evidence of himself on/in/near MK's body. Not even Guede disputes that.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Im confused why you think people wouldnt have a factual knowledge of the case because they think shes guilty? People here DO have access to the internet, newspapers and tv news and in addition i think its been far less biased than in other countries so some could say..we have MORE of a factual knowledge.

JMO

Because some people are making comments like, "well I know she's guilty because she LOOKS guilty to me!" or "she was kissing her boyfriend and buying panties when she should have been upset and crying! Guilty!"

I keep asking about the physical evidence because this is a crime scene that has a lot of physical evidence...blood, hair, fibers, footprints, fingerprints, a body, etc. If there was a cleanup then how did AK and/or RS manage to find just their own fingerprints and footprints to erase? How did they erase their own DNA from the room? Footprints from the murder room? How is this even believable? Surely there would be some trace of themselves in MK's room that they couldn't erase (besides the bra clasp that was passed around by investigators 6 wks after the murder and still left at the scene, found to have RS DNA on it). No one is that good at a cleanup. There must be something in that murder room that shows someone else besides Guede to be there, IF they were there.

 

[Celt1997]

If there was a cleanup then how did AK and/or RS manage to find just their own fingerprints and footprints to erase? How did they erase their own DNA from the room? Footprints from the murder room? How is this even believable?

QFE.

As I said in an earlier post, I have not followed this case that closely, but these are some very good questions. Was this addressed in the trial? I'm leaning towards believing that AK was involved in a cover up of some sort, but I'm not so sure she had a large role in the actual murder.

 

[justbeachy]

Can anyone tell me the exact type/nature/name of the store where Amanda was seen buying underwear? I have seen it described several different ways, each of which (to me) connotates a different meaning. I have seen it described as a lingerie store, a clothing store, and a discount store.

 

[Isabella]

Okay he 'knew' who she was. Why did he say she wasn't in the house? He was interrogated several times. He kept saying she wasn't there! Why?




So which one is correct?



1. Guede fingerprints/handprint in MK's blood in her room.
2. Guede DNA inside of MK
3. Guede feces left in toilet (and was DNA tested)
4. Guede footprints in MK's blood in hallway and (possibly) bathroom.
5. Guede fingerprints inside MK's purse
6. Guede says he was in the house at the time of the murder.

And that's just the evidence I do know about. I admittedly do not know all the evidence they found. NO ONE disputes that Guede was there and that he was in the murder room and left evidence of himself on/in/near MK's body. Not even Guede disputes that.

On the other hand ( bearing in mind i think he is guilty) he claims he has consensual sex with Meredith and so the dna could be explained. Likewise IF she had invited him there him going to the toilet..footprints in her room..being in the house could all be explained. Likesise the bloody footprint could be explained if for eg he said he went to her body and then ran cause he was scared. I repeat i DO think hes guilty. I have no doubt all 3 of them are.

As for which version of her stories are true i very much doubt that ANY of them are.

 

[Isabella]

Can anyone tell me the exact type/nature/name of the store where Amanda was seen buying underwear? I have seen it described several different ways, each of which (to me) connotates a different meaning. I have seen it described as a lingerie store, a clothing store, and a discount store.

I read lingerie store.

 

[Isabella]

Because some people are making comments like, "well I know she's guilty because she LOOKS guilty to me!" or "she was kissing her boyfriend and buying panties when she should have been upset and crying! Guilty!"

I keep asking about the physical evidence because this is a crime scene that has a lot of physical evidence...blood, hair, fibers, footprints, fingerprints, a body, etc. If there was a cleanup then how did AK and/or RS manage to find just their own fingerprints and footprints to erase? How did they erase their own DNA from the room? Footprints from the murder room? How is this even believable? Surely there would be some trace of themselves in MK's room that they couldn't erase (besides the bra clasp that was passed around by investigators 6 wks after the murder and still left at the scene, found to have RS DNA on it). No one is that good at a cleanup. There must be something in that murder room that shows someone else besides Guede to be there, IF they were there.

I thought there was a bloodyprint meant to belong to the bf?

 

[MomofBoys]

I thought there was a bloody footprint belonging to AK as well.

Because some people are making comments like, "well I know she's guilty because she LOOKS guilty to me!" or "she was kissing her boyfriend and buying panties when she should have been upset and crying! Guilty!"

Believe me, it works both ways. I can't believe the myopic people on other blogs/articles who are like, and I'm not exaggerating: "She should be freed. She just doesn't look like someone who would do this." "She's so sweet looking." My favorite? "I don't follow the case, but my BFF told me there's no evidence so I think Hilary should get involved."

There is evidence. People can poke holes in it all day long, but it takes an especially kind person to dismiss every piece and every action as some kind of conspiracy against her. People are assuming the cops are both brilliant masterminds AND bumbling idiots. I'm not sure they can have it both ways.

 

[Tizzle]

Personally i think a lot of the remarks being chucked at the Italians and the way they do thinks are racist. Because they do things different to how you doesnt make them wrong.

Sorry, I disagree because it's wrong to leak inaccurate or misleading information to the media. Whether America does it or Italy. Especially when it could potentially damage a person's right to a fair trial and it could taint the outcome of a trial. It's wrong. PERIOD. I have said nothing racist against Italians nor would I, ever.

For the record, I'm equally as outraged by the Gitmo detainees and other P.O.W.'s of the war in the Middle East because I know that many (or at least some) of them are being held when they have done nothing wrong. Also, I don't appreciate torturing prisoners regardless of their offense and especially when they haven't even been given a fair trial. I'm also saddened by the the thousands of perfectly innocent civilians killed unnecessarily in "our" war. So, yeah, I'm perfectly capable of scrutinizing my own country's legal practices, etc. If I see injustice, I don't like it, in America, Italy or otherwise.

 

[Tizzle]

Unless you are buying underwear because you don't have any and you also don't have access to your home. I can only go commando for so many days before I start to chafe.

I know there are reports that she was buying a g-string, but there are also reports that she was buying conventional underwear. And...at the risk of giving too much personal information...if I were buying underwear for myself for everyday use, regardless of my emotional state, I would still buy a thong. Call me crazy, but I can't stand VPL.

As for the sex conversation, we've gone back and forth about that on here so I won't get into it again.

Yes, some people just prefer thongs . I wouldn't buy Granny panties, either and I also wouldn't be too keen on goin' commando. I don't find anything curious or suspicious about Amanda buying herself basic necessities, even if they were "sexy". People need undies and she obviously was unable to get hers from her house. I bet she bought other things like toothpaste and deodorant and soap and such, but that's not worth reporting because it doesn't incriminate her and RS. JMO

Also, when a man was killed in the house I used to live in, my then boyfriend cuddled me and comforted me and even peppered me with kisses out in our driveway, with police tape and police and swat and observers everywhere, because he knew I was frightened and wanted to comfort me. Does that mean I'm guilty even though I wasn't in that particular apartment? I was taken to police headquarters, questioned and gave my statement for over two hours and was never arrested, so I guess not. I wonder what makes us different from AK and RS? :waitasec:

 

[Britlaws]

Here is a link to the best site I have found currently that includes all the evidence. It takes some time to wade through. It obviously is not going to support AK's stance but it is quite balanced in terms of presenting the evidence.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

I don't think a reasoned evaluation of the finding in this case can be made before the judges report is published, which may take up to 3 months. Although you can look at judges report on the finding in Guede's trial - the Micheli report.

I think this case has a lot of similarities to Darlie Routier - vastly different circumstances of course but a lot of the same issues in terms of character, changing stories etc. and she sits on death row in Texas.

 

[Tizzle]

To be honest you have a point. Maybe people are different to each other.

I just know that I MYSELF would not go into a lingerie shop the day or day after i found my murdered flatmate and talk about how hot it was going to be later that night.

Thats just me i guess. *shrugs*

Their conversation, sexual or otherwise, in the undie store is pure tabloid speculation. Is their proof of this trip to "lingerie" store and their subsequent sexual conversation? SOLID proof? Because I haven't seen it if there is.