Burke Ramsey Files 750 Million Dollar Lawsuit Against CBS

[digginin]

Looking at pictures provided PR was not much of a housewife, she probably only cleaned her lil Bkeys mess - or tried

 

[Miz Adventure]

Patsy probably thought that being decorative was all that was required of a female. She never really cooked either. The family went out for meals most evenings.

As for cleaning........that was the job of the housekeeper (who also thought it wasn't her job!)

 

[kanzz]

Ok thanks and all the best in your quest. I'm aware the website was created around this story about 15 years ago or so so I'll not comment on this subject anymore, as I don't know enough about it. I will say one thing though, I am not American, and what I have noticed is abbreviations and observations of things are taken very literally. What we would say as a passing comment is taken here as a definite. We all communicate differently.

Outside, is the outside world.

The cleaning of the kitchen is not important, I believe she was up and lost her cool. Two golf bags were they both his? A torch on the head, not for me. Inverted golf club. Just a guess. A lot of women do not want to believe this and this is OK. In the back of my mind I have always believed the husband knew nothing so it made me think of an outsider. But the facts as they are for me the kid didn't do it for me. He does know his Mum did it. In a sick twisted way maybe he was even happy, but became sad as he missed his Sister. Maybe he thought in the morning everything would be ok. Maybe she told him to go to bed and she'd be fine.

Unless some one here knows him personally I am not going to listen to their opinion of him smiling ect, everyone deals with things in their own way. Some cry at funerals some cry before funerals. No one is less sad. We used to have wakes, if you saw a wake in America now you'd say the family was possessed and make a movie out of it. Everyone is different.


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BBM

Thank you for clarifying the "outside" question.

The two golf bags were both JR's. As to whether the device used for the head injury was the Maglite, a golf club, or the baseball bat - each individual here has his/her own theory and it isn't gender related, but we all know that no intruder did it. Pick an R, any R. Most think BR, some think PR, I don't think there are any who still think JR struck JBR.

My experience with death, dying, and bereavement tells me it's true that everyone deals with it in their own way. I just find BR's way of dealing with it - then and now - off the scale. From the video of him at 13 days after losing his sister to a brutal murder in his home to the Phil interview, it's all very telling, imo. One thing we have not witnessed is sadness.

It isn't a "fact" that "the kid didn't do it". That's an opinion. We are all entitled to our opinions and speculation, which is why we are here discussing this case. We are free to disagree, but we do so in a respectful manner.

 

[icedtea4me]

*snip*The indictments were clear to me, as well. There were no murder charges against the parents but they were both responsible for JB's demise because they didn't protect her. BR was the only person still alive in the residence who could not ever have legal action brought against him.*snip*

According to the court order, the documents submitted to the court by Garnett consisted of 18 pages, nine relating to each of JonBenet's parents. Lowenbach ruled that only pages signed by the foreman of the grand jury would be considered "official actions" of the grand jury and would thus be releasable. In the end, a total of four pages -- two pages for each parent -- were released.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_24381455/jonbenet-ramsey-indictment-released-john-patsy


http://extras.mnginteractive.com/li...025_092257_John & Patsy Ramsey indictment.pdf

We only know about count IV (a) and count VII for John and count IV (a) and count VII for Patsy. Each was charged with nine counts. Counts I, II, III, IV, IV (b), V, and VI for each are not known; however, I believe common sense would dictate that count I is going to be far more serious than what's in counts IV (a) and VII.

 

[Sherlockknows]

BBM

Thank you for clarifying the "outside" question.

The two golf bags were both JR's. As to whether the device used for the head injury was the Maglite, a golf club, or the baseball bat - each individual here has his/her own theory and it isn't gender related, but we all know that no intruder did it. Pick an R, any R. Most think BR, some think PR, I don't think there are any who still think JR struck JBR.

My experience with death, dying, and bereavement tells me it's true that everyone deals with it in their own way. I just find BR's way of dealing with it - then and now - off the scale. From the video of him at 13 days after losing his sister to a brutal murder in his home to the Phil interview, it's all very telling, imo. One thing we have not witnessed is sadness.

It isn't a "fact" that "the kid didn't do it". That's an opinion. We are all entitled to our opinions and speculation, which is why we are here discussing this case. We are free to disagree, but we do so in a respectful manner.

The face of a man who can't believe his wife was such a good actor.

The witch and her stick

She feeds the kids Pineapple after the party. Daddy goes to bed. Burke's playing around with the golf club like he had been before when he hit his Sister. Mummy grabs the club off him angry, baby says something, she's tired, frustrated, goes Psycho, whack. Down the stairs, after constructing an alibi with Burke where Jonbennet fell down the stairs and hit her head. When she gets there notices the whittling stuff she took off Burke. There's the slipknot stuff he was practicing with too. She wants to leave her here, but doesn't want her baby to freeze to death. Thinks she won't get away with fall and decides the unthinkable. She strangles her. Goes upstairs to Burke tells him everything will be ok go back to bed. Spends an hour writing and practicing the note in crap handwriting. Goes gets the knife she found where the cleaner hid it, to cut the tape. Burke sees her from the crack in the door. Goes down and arranges body. Goes to bed, stays awake and gets up to try and find JonBennet. Big hysterics. JB is no clown. She breaks down. When they ring the cops Burke can be heard asking his father in the background. 'Please, tell me what to say.' The Witch is preying to Christ to forgive her, and JB not to strangle her. (I actually believe the kid when he said there was a big commotion between the two of them).

V

The boy and his knife

Burke whittles away for two to three weeks contemplating killing his Sister. One day he takes a swing at her to know what it feels like, and she retracts, she takes a hit in the cheek, the parents are bemused thinking it's out of character. He realises hitting her might not work on it's own. The knife is removed because people are sick of the wood pieces lying around, and the cleaner hides it in the hot press. She puts the rest of the stuff in the basement in a box. There's no more whittling in public, but he's no clown, Burke finds the knife and hides it in his room. (No one noticed it gone if it was). The night in question arrives. They go to a party and JonBennet is on show. Geeky Burke is a loser for the last time. They return. Mummy brings baby to bed. Tucks her in. Burke goes to bed too. Daddy reads Burke a story then goes in to sleeping beauty and reads her one too because it's what Daddy's do. Even when they're asleep. Burke waits till he hears the snores. He goes downstairs and gets the club. It's the short one Daddy cut for him to suite his height. No one will ever find it. He goes upstairs and wakes up his Sister and brings her downstairs. She goes first. As she reaches the bottom he cracks her on the head. She falls. He checks her pulse. No dice. ****. He carries or drags her down the steps to the basement and starts plan B. He decides to strangle her. What's he done. ****. Upstairs Mummy will know what to do. He wakes her. She goes down to the basement and goes psycho. She runs upstairs and wakes JB. He is angry but calms down. The woman wears the trousers (the drawings of mummy and Daddy might only prove his opinion of women in general) and decides to make it seem like a break in where their daughter is taken and there's a ransom. But she isn't. Actually she has been attacked and strangled and the loon is still out there. Anyway, Mum stays in charge and rings the Police. Burke, the normally cool, never out of control young man, suddenly panics and needs Daddy to make him up one more story. They send him to bed prepped. And he stays prepped. He would crack under pressure only once with investigators, and tell them she was taken away, down the stairs with a knife. The smile stays though. It's not because he's nervous, it's because he's happy he got away with murder?

Of course it could be the Hey Rube McR's and the parents in a small ring....Santa wouldn't do it would he?



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[flourish]

Ok thanks and all the best in your quest. I'm aware the website was created around this story about 15 years ago or so so I'll not comment on this subject anymore, as I don't know enough about it. I will say one thing though, I am not American, and what I have noticed is abbreviations and observations of things are taken very literally. What we would say as a passing comment is taken here as a definite. We all communicate differently.

Outside, is the outside world.

The cleaning of the kitchen is not important, I believe she was up and lost her cool. Two golf bags were they both his? A torch on the head, not for me. Inverted golf club. Just a guess. A lot of women do not want to believe this and this is OK. In the back of my mind I have always believed the husband knew nothing so it made me think of an outsider. But the facts as they are for me the kid didn't do it for me. He does know his Mum did it. In a sick twisted way maybe he was even happy, but became sad as he missed his Sister. Maybe he thought in the morning everything would be ok. Maybe she told him to go to bed and she'd be fine.

Unless some one here knows him personally I am not going to listen to their opinion of him smiling ect, everyone deals with things in their own way. Some cry at funerals some cry before funerals. No one is less sad. We used to have wakes, if you saw a wake in America now you'd say the family was possessed and make a movie out of it. Everyone is different.


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Ugh I hate it when I type out a response and then something goes wrong and I lose it all! So frustrating.

RBBM (Stands for "respectfully bolded by me," which means I emboldened the type of something stated in the post I'm quoting)
What women are you referring to here? What don't they want to believe? I'm not sure I'm understanding.

There is a difference between being a devil's advocate and being a troll. Usually, people who don't know a lot about a case ask a lot of questions, which we welcome. However, coming in and stating a bunch of stuff as fact (of course there was blood), isn't asking a question, it's stating an opinion as though it were a fact, and that's where we take issue. Additionally, Websleuths is a "no intruder did it" site, meaning the websleuths owner has determined that there is so little evidence, if any, of an intruder being the perpetrator of this crime, that the intruder theory is a waste of our time and is best left to trolls on other sites. There are plenty of sites where intruder theories are welcome, this just isn't one of them.

 

[Sherlockknows]

Ugh I hate it when I type out a response and then something goes wrong and I lose it all! So frustrating.

RBBM (Stands for "respectfully bolded by me," which means I emboldened the type of something stated in the post I'm quoting)
What women are you referring to here? What don't they want to believe? I'm not sure I'm understanding.

There is a difference between being a devil's advocate and being a troll. Usually, people who don't know a lot about a case ask a lot of questions, which we welcome. However, coming in and stating a bunch of stuff as fact (of course there was blood), isn't asking a question, it's stating an opinion as though it were a fact, and that's where we take issue. Additionally, Websleuths is a "no intruder did it" site, meaning the websleuths owner has determined that there is so little evidence, if any, of an intruder being the perpetrator of this crime, that the intruder theory is a waste of our time and is best left to trolls on other sites. There are plenty of sites where intruder theories are welcome, this just isn't one of them.

'We take issue'. Sounds like trolling or if I was easily hurt, bullying, to me. No surprise.

Websleuths is not a no intruder website, this thread is. And this is not a family related blame game anymore, it's a son related one. I have yet to read one post outside my own which blames the mother for any physical part in this murder. The Father at last seems blameless for the killing, but for a long time from my reading, was a silent monster on a lot of websites.

Regarding this case. I have already apologised for waisting people's time. I was playing Devil's advocate. I am finished with the thread bar a reply to a response today.

Which leads to this. I believe the mother did it. Whacked her over the head and strangled her. Wrote the note and pleaded with the Husband to back her up which he did. The son begged, as was caught in the background of the 911 call, to tell him what to say. Then was sent to his room.


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[SerenitySprings]

We do have LHP saying she took JB to the bathroom and shut the door and made her scream. But I would believe it if there were MORE accounts of PR losing her cool. To me that excerpt sounds like something from Darnay.



Amen!



Nothing could be more clear.

I'm so sorry about one of your cats. :cry:

Do you happen to know why LHP made JB scream? Or even any speculation as to why someone would do that?


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[SerenitySprings]

Patsy probably thought that being decorative was all that was required of a female. She never really cooked either. The family went out for meals most evenings.

As for cleaning........that was the job of the housekeeper (who also thought it wasn't her job!)

Dude, I wouldn't mind being so out of touch with reality that I truly believed cooking and cleaning was the job of "the help"! (lol)


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[SerenitySprings]

According to the court order, the documents submitted to the court by Garnett consisted of 18 pages, nine relating to each of JonBenet's parents. Lowenbach ruled that only pages signed by the foreman of the grand jury would be considered "official actions" of the grand jury and would thus be releasable. In the end, a total of four pages -- two pages for each parent -- were released.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_24381455/jonbenet-ramsey-indictment-released-john-patsy


http://extras.mnginteractive.com/li...025_092257_John & Patsy Ramsey indictment.pdf

We only know about count IV (a) and count VII for John and count IV (a) and count VII for Patsy. Each was charged with nine counts. Counts I, II, III, IV, IV (b), V, and VI for each are not known; however, I believe common sense would dictate that count I is going to be far more serious than what's in counts IV (a) and VII.

Of course. Count I should be the most serious charge. However, with what Arndt, Smit, Schiller, Kolar, the Whites, and Thomas have alluded to, BR still seems like the prime suspect to me.


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[Tadpole12]

We do have LHP saying she took JB to the bathroom and shut the door and made her scream. But I would believe it if there were MORE accounts of PR losing her cool. To me that excerpt sounds like something from Darnay.


'She' refers to PR?

 

[HarmonyE.]

According to the court order, the documents submitted to the court by Garnett consisted of 18 pages, nine relating to each of JonBenet's parents. Lowenbach ruled that only pages signed by the foreman of the grand jury would be considered "official actions" of the grand jury and would thus be releasable. In the end, a total of four pages -- two pages for each parent -- were released.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_24381455/jonbenet-ramsey-indictment-released-john-patsy


http://extras.mnginteractive.com/li...025_092257_John & Patsy Ramsey indictment.pdf

We only know about count IV (a) and count VII for John and count IV (a) and count VII for Patsy. Each was charged with nine counts. Counts I, II, III, IV, IV (b), V, and VI for each are not known; however, I believe common sense would dictate that count I is going to be far more serious than what's in counts IV (a) and VII.

We've been told that the reason Counts IV and VII were released pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act request is because they were signed. However, there are two signature options - one for No True Bill and one for True Bill. I agree with you that the lower numbered counts were the more serious ones, including the murder charge. If it's true that the foreman did not sign these one way or the other, what possible reason would there be for this? Either the GJ voted to indict on those unreleased counts or they did not. Either way, they should have been signed by the foreman, and therefore releasable under the FOIA. There isn't a third option. Unless there is a third option, and those counts weren't signed off on either because the person or persons named could not legally be indicted for a crime. Or they were signed, but they involved a minor and were therefore invalid. And any such information involving alleged criminal activities of an un-indicated minor generally cannot be released under Freedom of Information.

We need a Colorado criminal attorney to opine here, but this "no signature" thing isn't adding up.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Do you happen to know why LHP made JB scream? Or even any speculation as to why someone would do that?


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Tadpole already addressed this but just in case you missed it, the poster meant that LHP said Patsy took JB into the bathroom and made her scream. I believe the source for that is the "first chapter" of her unwritten book, which was likely ghostwritten by her lawyer Darnay Hoffman.

As to why Patsy would be making her scream, LHP and Darnay were both PDI and followed Thomas's toilet rage theory. If she truly witnessed this kind of bathroom behavior between PR and JB, I can see why LHP would agree with Thomas.

 

[SerenitySprings]

Tadpole already addressed this but just in case you missed it, the poster meant that LHP said Patsy took JB into the bathroom and made her scream. I believe the source for that is the "first chapter" of her unwritten book, which was likely ghostwritten by her lawyer Darnay Hoffman.

As to why Patsy would be making her scream, LHP and Darnay were both PDI and followed Thomas's toilet rage theory. If she truly witnessed this kind of bathroom behavior between PR and JB, I can see why LHP would agree with Thomas.

So PR made JB scream? I still don't understand what that's about.

But if LHP is saying she thinks PR did it, she would definitely have insight to their lives behind closed doors that I don't have.


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[ZoriahNZ]

We've been told that the reason Counts IV and VII were released pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act request is because they were signed. However, there are two signature options - one for No True Bill and one for True Bill. I agree with you that the lower numbered counts were the more serious ones, including the murder charge. If it's true that the foreman did not sign these one way or the other, what possible reason would there be for this? Either the GJ voted to indict on those unreleased counts or they did not. Either way, they should have been signed by the foreman, and therefore releasable under the FOIA. There isn't a third option. Unless there is a third option, and those counts weren't signed off on either because the person or persons named could not legally be indicted for a crime. Or they were signed, but they involved a minor and were therefore invalid. And any such information involving alleged criminal activities of an un-indicated minor generally cannot be released under Freedom of Information.

We need a Colorado criminal attorney to opine here, but this "no signature" thing isn't adding up.

Hmmm, that's a good point. Maybe someone with the appropriate knowledge of Colorado state law could help us with this. Because there's a possibility a case could be made for petitioning for the rest to be released if something hinky is going on.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Hmmm, that's a good point. Maybe someone with the appropriate knowledge of Colorado state law could help us with this. Because there's a possibility a case could be made for petitioning for the rest to be released if something hinky is going on.

I do know that if those counts involve someone who was a minor at the time, signed or unsigned, they will never be released

 

[Ambitioned]

We do have LHP saying she took JB to the bathroom and shut the door and made her scream. But I would believe it if there were MORE accounts of PR losing her cool. To me that excerpt sounds like something from Darnay.


'She' refers to PR?

Yes sorry

JonBenet wet the bed again that night, didn't she? She woke up and told you about it before you were even undressed and you simply "lost it." You took her into the bathroom. It was the same destination you always took JonBenet when it was time to punish her for bedwetting. You forget that I saw you take here there so many times before, shutting the door tightly behind you, so her screams could not be heard. Except this time there was "an accident," wasn't there? You picked up the long, black flashlight you had brought with you, and you swung it. You swung it first at her crotch and then next at her head. Maybe you meant to scare her and maybe you didn't mean to kill her, but you did.

- LHP

 

[flourish]

'We take issue'. Sounds like trolling or if I was easily hurt, bullying, to me. No surprise.

Websleuths is not a no intruder website, this thread is. And this is not a family related blame game anymore, it's a son related one. I have yet to read one post outside my own which blames the mother for any physical part in this murder. The Father at last seems blameless for the killing, but for a long time from my reading, was a silent monster on a lot of websites.

Regarding this case. I have already apologised for waisting people's time. I was playing Devil's advocate. I am finished with the thread bar a reply to a response today.

Which leads to this. I believe the mother did it. Whacked her over the head and strangled her. Wrote the note and pleaded with the Husband to back her up which he did. The son begged, as was caught in the background of the 911 call, to tell him what to say. Then was sent to his room.


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You didn't answer my question about your post.

Websleuths is a no intruder for this case, not other cases. Thought it was clear what case we're talking about.

"Taking issue" has a different definition than "trolling," so I'm not understanding the comparison there.

If a person walks into a dentist and says, "I've got a cavity on tooth 17 and need a root canal on tooth 20," the dentist is likely to ask questions like, "are you a dentist?" "did a dentist diagnose those issues and if so can I please see the records?" if the answer is, "no it's just my opinion," do you think the dentist will perform a filling and a root canal?

You entered a discussion and made statements as fact without offering evidence to back it up. People are going to question statements made as fact without evidence. Well, here they will... There are plenty of sites where they won't, but websleuths prides itself on expecting posters to provide something to back up statements.

I'd suggest reviewing the terms of service here, and brushing up on the case facts. The posters here are, by and large, more than happy to entertain new ideas and perspective.

 

[flourish]

So PR made JB scream? I still don't understand what that's about.

But if LHP is saying she thinks PR did it, she would definitely have insight to their lives behind closed doors that I don't have.


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I don't know. I screamed every single time my mother brushed my hair when I was little. She was very gentle. I just had a very sensitive scalp. After the neighbor girl told her she could hear me outside, she made my cosmetologist sister cut a foot of it off. So it could be something like that or something more nefarious. We don't really know.

 

[Sherlockknows]

You didn't answer my question about your post.

Websleuths is a no intruder for this case, not other cases. Thought it was clear what case we're talking about.

"Taking issue" has a different definition than "trolling," so I'm not understanding the comparison there.

If a person walks into a dentist and says, "I've got a cavity on tooth 17 and need a root canal on tooth 20," the dentist is likely to ask questions like, "are you a dentist?" "did a dentist diagnose those issues and if so can I please see the records?" if the answer is, "no it's just my opinion," do you think the dentist will perform a filling and a root canal?

You entered a discussion and made statements as fact without offering evidence to back it up. People are going to question statements made as fact without evidence. Well, here they will... There are plenty of sites where they won't, but websleuths prides itself on expecting posters to provide something to back up statements.

I'd suggest reviewing the terms of service here, and brushing up on the case facts. The posters here are, by and large, more than happy to entertain new ideas and perspective.

It has nothing to do with new perspectives or Websleuths. Every single time someone questions the mother, the motives of the mother, the actions of the mother, there is a cosy reason for it. I am not the only one who has suggested this. In fact one poster just mentioned the words 'conservative views', and there was an avalanche of nonsense. Which actually came across as differing political views nothing to do with this at all. I have been reading back now on websites. In fact if you go back far enough the father was destroyed by a lot of people. They flat out called him a child killer irregardless of what he could have been charged with. Which as it was, wasn't this. Now there are people saying the overall belief is he probably didn't do it. He has been torn apart, and he's hardly to blame for the Murder, but now he's part of a cover up. He did something. Yet the Pineapple Bowl had the son's and mother's prints the glass the son's prints. The mother wrote the note. The blanket and the Doll nightgown from a drier, a woman. The knife being found. Lou Smit brought in to the family prayer sessions knowing he was religious. This is premeditated. She was cool and calculating, yet now she's gone, it is the son who is the cool and calculating one.

The Guardian

JonBenet's death gripped America, Tracey suggests, because it had everything going for it: 'Sex, sleaze, the rich father, the American dream gone bad... It was a combination of voyeurism, resentment, anger, irrationality, a cultural viciousness. It was Greek - a lot of people focused on it as a kind of catharsis.' (Catharsis - here it refers to the ability to hate and feel good about it)




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