By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

[Tortoise]

I haven't kept up on all the new stuff. Are these new things that were released to the public?! I haven't seen them but they sound...sad.

Yes, sad indeed. I'm sorry I can't point you to one place to see all the new photographic and video evidence, it's dotted around in quite a few different threads.

 

[kanzz]

I haven't kept up on all the new stuff. Are these new things that were released to the public?! I haven't seen them but they sound...sad.

Yes. Photos and videos have been released in online articles. I've tried to keep up by posting the new pics to the pinterest page (link in my sig line, or see it here if you're on tapatalk).

There are two new police videos that were posted on Radar Online:
First floor and second floor-
http://radaronline.com/videos/jon-benet-ramsey-murder-crime-scene-video/
Basement-
http://radaronline.com/videos/jonbenet-ramsey-murder-scene-video-camera-footage/

There is also a lot of new info about the case. e.g. Stan Garnett, the DA, has ordered new DNA testing.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/jonbenet-ramsey/ci_30514220/jonbenet-ramsey-dna-evidence
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/jon...ulder-police-da-plan-new-dna-testing-jonbenet

 

[ZoriahNZ]

Thanks for posting this. I had only seen the basement video - which was disturbing enough. How the heck could a stranger/intruder navigate around that in the dark without tripping over something and making noise?

I wish we had footage of Burke's bedroom. So many things I wish the videographer had caught on tape, but at least now we have more crime scene footage to sift through.

Was that a fecal stain on the carpet the camera man focused on in JBR's room? Also what pants were discarded on the floor by the toilet? Pity there was no shot of the candy box.

Interesting that there was another glass on the table, at the head. And I am still wondering at the significance of the pillow (presumably JBR's) being left on the kitchen counter.

 

[kanzz]

Thanks for posting this. I had only seen the basement video - which was disturbing enough. How the heck could a stranger/intruder navigate around that in the dark without tripping over something and making noise?

I wish we had footage of Burke's bedroom. So many things I wish the videographer had caught on tape, but at least now we have more crime scene footage to sift through.

Was that a fecal stain on the carpet the camera man focused on in JBR's room? Also what pants were discarded on the floor by the toilet? Pity there was no shot of the candy box.

Interesting that there was another glass on the table, at the head. And I am still wondering at the significance of the pillow (presumably JBR's) being left on the kitchen counter.

BBM
That they didn't focus on BR's bedroom is, to me, just another sign that it didn't cross their minds that he might have had something to do with this crime.

 

[Rott Mom]

IMO - this was not an accident. This was on purpose. I really go back and forth w/ the flashlight...I believe it was the baseball bat found outside in the back yard. 2017 is here - it's more than enough time for Justice for JBR.

 

[Ambitioned]

IMO - this was not an accident. This was on purpose. I really go back and forth w/ the flashlight...I believe it was the baseball bat found outside in the back yard. 2017 is here - it's more than enough time for Justice for JBR.

It was interesting how PR kept trying to deflect that. "No the bat wouldn't be there. It'd be in the garage or something..."

 

[andreww]

It was interesting how PR kept trying to deflect that. "No the bat wouldn't be there. It'd be in the garage or something..."

Nothing compared to they way they tried to distance themselves from that flashlight. The fact that it was wiped down both outside and inside tells you something.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Can somebody please enlighten me? Was the white knotted tape ever un-knotted and checked for DNA within the knot?

 

[Ambitioned]

I happen to be of the BDI persuasion and believe killing JBR was conscious and deliberate. If PDI is the case, it's more complex.

Great post!!

Last night I watched the movie Penelope for the first time and the mother reminded me of PR.

Anyway this is what I meant by emotional manipulation. Apparently suffering = innocence.

 

[TeaTime]

It was interesting how PR kept trying to deflect that. "No the bat wouldn't be there. It'd be in the garage or something..."

One would think that everything in the house had a place and it was kept neat and orderly. LOL As if.

Not to mention that she didn't recognize it as BR's bat at all.

 

[andreww]

Great post!!

Last night I watched the movie Penelope for the first time and the mother reminded me of PR.

Anyway this is what I meant by emotional manipulation. Apparently suffering = innocence.

My wife and i Watched "Jagged Edge" with Glen Close and Jeff Bridges the other night and a line from the movie gave me icy chills. Jeff Bridges character's wife has been found brutally murdered in their house. The couple is extremely wealthy and Bridges stands to inherit all of it. This is what he says about the crime, and keep in mind what a movie nut Patsy was...


Only you're real smart...

...so you make it look like

some ******ing Charlie Manson did it.



You want people to say: "Do you think

he could've done that to his own wife?"



My bet is that this quote was in Patsy's head that night when she staged the crime scene.





If I was gonna kill my wife,

that's the way I'd do it.

 

[Ambitioned]

Whoa!!! I have never seen that movie so thank you! Another to add to my list!

 

[Rott Mom]

Nothing compared to they way they tried to distance themselves from that flashlight. The fact that it was wiped down both outside and inside tells you something.

...but why in the world did they go through the trouble of wiping it down (batteries included), only to leave it there in plain sight.

 

[kanzz]

...but why in the world did they go through the trouble of wiping it down (batteries included), only to leave it there in plain sight.

I've thought about this a lot and I'm not convinced it was wiped. It could be that the batteries had been inserted with kitchen gloves long before that night. I sometimes use gloves to help with opening things, and the Maglite battery compartment isn't real easy to open or replace (I have one just like it). So, if a person had on gloves when they opened the compartment, they'd probably still be wearing them while inserting batteries. Also - the handle of the Maglite has a grid pattern that wouldn't pick up fingerprints, I'm sure.

I'm not even convinced that PR knew the Maglite was involved. If BDI-A (all), as I suspect, then she didn't know that JB's skull was fractured. And hence, the Maglite was a non-issue.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I've thought about this a lot and I'm not convinced it was wiped. It could be that the batteries had been inserted with kitchen gloves long before that night. I sometimes use gloves to help with opening things, and the Maglite battery compartment isn't real easy to open or replace (I have one just like it). So, if a person had on gloves when they opened the compartment, they'd probably still be wearing them while inserting batteries. Also - the handle of the Maglite has a grid pattern that wouldn't pick up fingerprints, I'm sure.

I'm not even convinced that PR knew the Maglite was involved. If BDI-A (all), as I suspect, then she didn't know that JB's skull was fractured. And hence, the Maglite was a non-issue.

Good thought on the gloves for the reason for the clean batteries, but unless the perp was wearing gloves that night, someone thought to clear the outside of prints as well. My own guess is that the person who used it confessed what happened to the person or persons who cleaned it. We know JBR was alive albeit near death when strangled, which means the person who strangled her either wanted her finished off or maybe simply out of her apparent suffering (severe seizures?). So if the strangler was a different person than the whacker, the strangler almost certainly knew about the whacking even though the head injury wasn't visible from under her hair.

 

[kanzz]

Good thought on the gloves for the reason for the clean batteries, but unless the perp was wearing gloves that night, someone thought to clear the outside of prints as well. My own guess is that the person who used it confessed what happened to the person or persons who cleaned it. We know JBR was alive albeit near death when strangled, which means the person who strangled her either wanted her finished off or maybe simply out of her apparent suffering (severe seizures?). So if the strangler was a different person than the whacker, the strangler almost certainly knew about the whacking even though the head injury wasn't visible from under her hair.

Right, you very well could be right about the person who used it confessing. And I do think he wanted to complete the task. If the strangler was a different person, I think the only reason would be if they knew that JB had been purposefully harmed, yes.
But I still think there's a possibility that the grid pattern on the Maglite handle wouldn't pick up fingerprints, especially by a smaller hand. And that this all might possibly be just more dumb luck on their part. :wink:

 

[HarmonyE.]

...but why in the world did they go through the trouble of wiping it down (batteries included), only to leave it there in plain sight.

The plain sight thing has always bugged me too, but assuming it was the flashlight - and the nature of the injury and the lack of prints leads me to believe it was - they had only a few choices.

They could have hidden it in that huge messy house. But they risked LE finding it and connecting it to the head injury. Why would a intruder bother to find a hiding spot in the house for the murder weapon?

They could have tried to dispose of it, but it was a heavy object, and it probably would have been much more difficult to dispose of than some tape or string, especially with the clock ticking that night.

They could have left it where the head strike happened, but this would have potentially left clues they didn't want left behind. And this would have confirmed without question that it was the weapon used.

Without actually hiding it, they could have put it in a kitchen drawer or cabinet. But, assuming the cops figured it was the weapon, why would an intruder bother doing this? (Although he was nice enough to put Patsy's pen and pad neatly away, so maybe this would have worked.)

They may have figured leaving it print-less on the counter was the safest, most neutral option of all. Not hidden, not put away, not randomly tossed where the head strike occurred. If the cops determined it was the murder weapon, it could have just been where the murderer put it down. Or maybe they wouldn't connect it at all. Whatever the reasoning, it worked for the Ramseys.

 

[Rott Mom]

The plain sight thing has always bugged me too, but assuming it was the flashlight - and the nature of the injury and the lack of prints leads me to believe it was - they had only a few choices.

They could have hidden it in that huge messy house. But they risked LE finding it and connecting it to the head injury. Why would a intruder bother to find a hiding spot in the house for the murder weapon?

They could have tried to dispose of it, but it was a heavy object, and it probably would have been much more difficult to dispose of than some tape or string, especially with the clock ticking that night.

They could have left it where the head strike happened, but this would have potentially left clues they didn't want left behind. And this would have confirmed without question that it was the weapon used.

Without actually hiding it, they could have put it in a kitchen drawer or cabinet. But, assuming the cops figured it was the weapon, why would an intruder bother doing this? (Although he was nice enough to put Patsy's pen and pad neatly away, so maybe this would have worked.)

They may have figured leaving it print-less on the counter was the safest, most neutral option of all. Not hidden, not put away, not randomly tossed where the head strike occurred. If the cops determined it was the murder weapon, it could have just been where the murderer put it down. Or maybe they wouldn't connect it at all. Whatever the reasoning, it worked for the Ramseys.

Yep, it worked for the R's. Sickens me.

 

[TeaTime]

I saw a movie in which the older criminal was teaching 'the ropes' to a younger and inexperienced criminal. He instructed the young one to wipe down the flashlight batteries in case he accidentally left the flashlight at the scene.

I am not in the least bit curious as to why they left the flashlight in plain sight. The pineapple was left out and for pity's sake, the body was still in the house.

PR was very inquisitive in her interview when the subject of the 'pen from the house' was brought up. She wanted to know how they could tell it was the same pen. Same with the pineapple, 'how do you know it was fresh pineapple and not canned?', 'show me the proof that she was sexually molested prior to that night. PR was clever, but knew only a little about forensic evidence - enough to drape herself over the body wearing the exact same clothes as the night before, spreading fibers, but not enough to know that the pad and pen could be scientifically matched to those in her kitchen.

As far as whether the murder was accidental or purposeful, I think the evidence is clear that both the head blow and the strangulation were purposeful and intended to cause death.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I am not in the least bit curious as to why they left the flashlight in plain sight. The pineapple was left out and for pity's sake, the body was still in the house.

Moving the body wasn't practical given their time constraints and I'm betting John nor Patsy had a clue that JBR ate a little pineapple until after the autopsy. So nice that Patsy still has a good friend in "journalist" Paula Woodward who waved her magic wand and turned it into fruit cocktail though.