CA - ‘Uncharted territory’ as Lake Oroville rises toward damaged dam

[pandamonium]

haha yes, well that's true but it actually originated from the fact that I've collected pandas since my teens and have hundreds or more of them. lol

 

[pandamonium]

This is another scary article about just how little time these people have to leave IF they even had a short warning. And, it's one the reasons I'm so relieved and grateful my family members heeded caution and stayed away this week. I don't know that they, or anyone, can afford to do that indefinitely tho and that scares me to death.

http://kron4.com/2017/02/17/warning-escape-route-lack-by-oroville-dam/

AP — Communities just downstream of California’s Lake Oroville dam would not receive adequate warning or time for evacuations if the 770-foot-tall dam itself — rather than its spillways — were to abruptly fail, the state water agency that operates the nation’s tallest dam repeatedly advised federal regulators a half-decade ago.

The state Department of Water Resources informed federal dam regulators that local emergency officials “do not believe there is enough time to perform evacuations in the communities immediately downstream of the dam during a sudden failure,” according to a Feb. 8, 2011, letter reviewed by The Associated Press.

 

[CARIIS]

Nimbus Dam releasing water as American River surges

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/3624009-water-being-released-from-nimbus-dam-for-flood-control/

Checking out some names I have heard of around this dam

Then accidently the window!!


[h=2]Shasta Dam... maximum water releases, storage at 95% and storms on the way




http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/water-and-drought/article131927204.html
Read m






ore here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/water-and-drought/article132826359.html#storylink=cpy
[/h]

 

[CARIIS]

latest simple radar !

http://www.northcoastweather.com/oroville_radar.htm

Scroll down a bit for current super dooper super computer turbo reality !!

https://www.vencoreweather.com/blog...as-a-brief-break-before-getting-pounded-again

KCAL weather reports are focusing on wind gusts more than rain?

 

[CARIIS]

This is San Fran

Lake Berryessa's Glory Hole on verge of spilling over for first time in 10 years
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Lake-Berryessa-s-Glory-Hole-on-verge-of-spilling-10938048.php


This design is cool looking but seems dangerous! There have been deaths.

2010

[video=youtube;0XvinZ_xs1Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_847720&feature=iv&src_vid=-K_8R03jIZI&v=0XvinZ_xs1Q[/video]

KCAL on in background they are doing a story on growing potatoes on Mars?? WTF?



Is this a hint that may be the place to be shortly? That is funny!

There teasing a doll that comes in an egg......................I give up!

 

[CARIIS]

It said I could not do them in one post

2007- to see it

[video=youtube;-K_8R03jIZI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K_8R03jIZI[/video]

 

[CARIIS]

Right now

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Lake-Berryessa-s-Glory-Hole-on-verge-of-spilling-10938048.php

 

[CARIIS]

Another high tech model -- it will zoom

https://argo.nullschool.net/#curren...raphic=-112.27,33.63,1024/loc=-120.901,36.553

 

[CARIIS]

Months ago , might explain this

[video=youtube;E5Ej2ClalYk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Ej2ClalYk[/video]

 

[CARIIS]

914​

Yeh all is fine in sunny Calif:



Maybe this is so frustrating for me is ,here, if anything, the local media get too hyped for hurricanes?

Today local media in areas are just la la la
I just cant comprehend any of the people in this region going back there?? I realize money - there are evac places open.

Camarillo Springs Braces for Storm Amid Voluntary Evacuations

Union Pacific has stopped train service through cities affected by the Oroville Dam emergency.

Mandatory Evacuation Orders in Duarte

The California National Guard put out an alert to all 23,000 of its soldiers and airmen ....last time officials sent out such a broad notification was during the 1992 riots in Los Angeles, he said.

Northbound 101 Freeway Closed Near Ventura as Mud Floods Roadway

http://ktla.com/2017/02/17/northbound-101-freeway-closed-near-ventura-as-mud-floods-roadway-chp/

http://ktla.com/2017/02/17/camarillo-springs-site-of-previous-mudslides-braces-for-storm/

http://www.latimes.com/local/califo...rnia-national-guard-1486988371-htmlstory.html

http://ktla.com/2017/02/17/camarillo-springs-site-of-previous-mudslides-braces-for-storm/

http://www.latimes.com/local/califo...halts-train-service-1487010559-htmlstory.html

http://ktla.com/2017/02/17/mandator...80-homes-below-fish-fire-burn-area-in-duarte/


Small wide spread power outages began

 

[watergirl62]

It said I could not do them in one post

2007- to see it

[video=youtube;-K_8R03jIZI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K_8R03jIZI[/video]

CARIIS, that is called a riser pipe. Once the stage of the reservoir reaches the elevation of the top of the riser pipe, it will spill through subsurface conduits to the downstream channel. This design has an upper limit to its capacity to convey flow, because a pipe can only funnel a finite amount of flow. You do not want to be anywhere near one of these structures during high flow conditions! The particular site of the dam may not allow for a bigger flood footprint such as a wide crest spillway and/ or emergency spillway. There are many site-specific and fiscal variables that contribute to flood control structure and spillway design in reservoirs.

 

[CARIIS]

Diff between in and out is now at 25,000

For trend

Two hrs ago 45,000 diff



8 hrs ago in out diff 65,000

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?s=ORO&d=17-Feb-2017+21:31&span=12hours

 

[watergirl62]

Diff between in and out is now at 25,000

For trend

Two hrs ago 45,000 diff



8 hrs ago in out diff 65,000

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?s=ORO&d=17-Feb-2017+21:31&span=12hours

Thanks for this link. I am finally clicking them all. [emoji102]

CARIIS if you haven't read Cadillac Desert I definitely recommend it. The story of the BLM and ACE dam-building era is fascinating. You will learn a lot about dam construction. Also, the LA Owens Valley water grab.

And that municipal far-reaching grab is alive and well in Texas especially during/ since the drought. Where I take issue with it when city policy allows that it is still okay to water your grass 2-3 days a week but grabbing for more.

Conservation first, please.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...k-about-the-water-crisis-cadillac-desert.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Desert

DB has another recommendation that I haven't read: Deadbeat Dams. Awesome. Ordering...

 

[CARIIS]

I just had an epiphany! This is all semantics. Have been a hurricane enthusiast since childhood. Florida native.

We don't hear reservoir levels, inflows, outflows, snow melts etc etc.

Easiest way to share this is via analogy. Our 2004 hurricane season here in Orlando.

I must predicate this by saying that I never heard of an "atmospheric river"! There hurricanes here ! When I saw (linked below again!) this stuff, it markedly increased my concerns.

The lower the pressure for a hurricane the more dangerous. So when I saw this model and the pressures are LOW. Its weather - low pressure here or out there seem to be called different things but it's mother nature -- in the exact same mode.

When I learned about them the notion of linear hurricane just made sense , cause pressure is the whole thing in hurricane development .

The pressures in what is coming/happening on this end (FL) , typically end up in tropical depression category .or cat 1 hurricane- and then the lower the pressure the more severe .

There are (link below) really low barometric pressures - I have seen 970 sections. That is lower than some of our storms.

Using 2004. There were huge differences in both media and human behaviors that summer. We knew Charlie was gonna be bad..

Several weeks later when Frances started to develop and modeling showed us in the crosshairs - it was a different story. People did alter their lives. wet.

Lat night seeing people in traffic jams to go up in the mountains to ski - to me, would be the equivalent of wanting to go water skiing as Frances approaches!

Streets empty days in advance. To watch this whole area just scuttle about while they are in the middle of minor hurricane/tropical depression just did not register to me.

This is their equivalent of our third that summer Jean. By that point news coverage was non stop - the state was evacuation weary.

Its semantics. I think after this season , out there , (west coast) the terminology "atmospheric river" were incorporated more into reporting both behavior and coverage would be altered.r!

We do not do business as usual when a system is brewing into what might become a cat 1 hurricane.

This, I just realized is why I have had such a hard time watching what has been happening.

Coverage now is heavy rain - life does not stop, in FL for a FL afternoon thunderstorm. It does when the words tropical depression (with likelihood of development good).are in the narrative. Weather interest soars.


After the dam tho , (again connected to love of aviation) structural fatigue is real . So all these "dam" people carrying on as if "managing "inflows and outflows as if nothing is different is IMO peculiar.

There is no way on earth Orville physically has been profoundly damaged by last week. If down here during Charley a power plant was ripped up and flooded I do not think the story would be all is well over there!

IMO since "atmospheric river" has not been absorbed in the lexicon,as it relates to distinguishing what is coming weatherwise, everyone carrying on makes sense!


Which is what I hope this post did - make some sense!!

This thing continues to roar, with low pressures

https://www.vencoreweather.com/blog...as-a-brief-break-before-getting-pounded-again

 

[CARIIS]

Thanks for this link. I am finally clicking them all. [emoji102]

CARIIS if you haven't read Cadillac Desert I definitely recommend it. The story of the BLM and ACE dam-building era is fascinating. You will learn a lot about dam construction. Also, the LA Owens Valley water grab.

And that municipal far-reaching grab is alive and well in Texas especially during/ since the drought. Where I take issue with it when city policy allows that it is still okay to water your grass 2-3 days a week but grabbing for more.

Conservation first, please.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...k-about-the-water-crisis-cadillac-desert.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Desert

DB has another recommendation that I haven't read: Deadbeat Dams. Awesome. Ordering...

Linked earlier that govt person getting air time to critizse Orville releasing I think it was last year - fit so into last week.

Apparently there has been a lot of contention and pressure on dam operators NOT to release - so that so fit into this weeks mess.

 

[SophieRose]

Another article said it would take only 7 hours to flood Yuba City and Marysville, only 30 miles away.

‘Mass chaos’ of Oroville evacuation prompts worry over exit strategy
ttp://www.sacbee.com/news/local/transportation/back-seat-driver/article133485154.html

But Jon Clark, executive director of the Butte County Association of Governments, said the incident highlights a bad situation on Highway 70, the main state route in the valley below the dam. Much of the Highway 70 corridor has been expanded over decades into a modern highway. But the 21-mile section between Oroville and Marysville remains an undersized and dangerous two-lane road. On Sunday night, it got jammed.
“Butte County is the biggest county in the state not served by a (continuous) four-lane highway, and that is ridiculous,” Clark said. He plans to travel to Washington, D.C. in March to make a pitch for $320 million in funds to widen 70.

“We need this road fixed,” he said. “That spillway came close to failing. It would have been a real disaster for people stuck on that highway if it had flooded.”

 

[CARIIS]

Another article said it would take only 7 hours to flood Yuba City and Marysville, only 30 miles away.

‘Mass chaos’ of Oroville evacuation prompts worry over exit strategy
ttp://www.sacbee.com/news/local/transportation/back-seat-driver/article133485154.html

But Jon Clark, executive director of the Butte County Association of Governments, said the incident highlights a bad situation on Highway 70, the main state route in the valley below the dam. Much of the Highway 70 corridor has been expanded over decades into a modern highway. But the 21-mile section between Oroville and Marysville remains an undersized and dangerous two-lane road. On Sunday night, it got jammed.
“Butte County is the biggest county in the state not served by a (continuous) four-lane highway, and that is ridiculous,” Clark said. He plans to travel to Washington, D.C. in March to make a pitch for $320 million in funds to widen 70.

“We need this road fixed,” he said. “That spillway came close to failing. It would have been a real disaster for people stuck on that highway if it had flooded.”

Its laughable when "officials" describe maybe we do need to do it better"- Implying it was success- it was a "success" only cause nothing happened you idiots

I think we all know the scenario if - only thing that would have been different is location of death.

Has anyone heard the white house mention this yet??

 

[CARIIS]

​

Releasing water at Oroville Dam a lingering problem
[FONT=&amp]
Thousands of gallons of water rush over the main and auxiliary spillway at Oroville Dam in Oroville, Calif., on Sunday, February 12, 2017. The California Department of Water Resources is now working to remove ...
[/FONT]
.........before Lake Oroville reached a crisis point last weekend when it swelled to its brim and saw both of its spillways badly damaged, operators of the nation’s tallest dam were concerned about “drawdown capacity” — their ability to make adequate downstream releases of water at the reservoir.


Not only were a set of outflow valves taken out of service after a near-fatal accident eight years ago, records show, but also managers of the massive state-run reservoir wanted additional ways to release water from the lake.

Adequate and reliable reservoir drawdown capacity is important for dam safety,” read a September report by the state Division of Safety of Dams.

............since the 2009 accident, which occurred when dam workers were directed to open the lines to full capacity. The pressure within caused a wall to collapse, injuring five people, one who spent four days in a hospital.

main spillway to as much as 100,000 cubic feet per second, despite its 200-foot-long fracture

dam managers everywhere have been looking for ways to boost water releases in order to add operational flexibility, whether water levels are high or low.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Releasing-water-at-Oroville-Dam-a-lingering-10941922.php

 

[fabvab]

I have been following this thread for a while now and am surprised that there is not more coverage on this situation and more activity in this thread. Thanks to Cariis and others for updating this thread.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

I live in Western Pennsylvania, had lots and lots of family members who lived in Johnstown PA, including some who were drowned in the Great Flood of 1889. Thus, I was raised to "always live up on a hill". Seriously! And I have always heeded that advice.

The Johnstown Flood was due to an old, incorrectly maintained dam that collapsed after heavy spring rains. Actually it was pretty widely known that the dam was not in good shape. In addition, there were warnings that the dam was leaking. Because there had been prior warnings and rumors in times past, "warning fatigue" had set in and many residents failed to seek ground despite the streets of the town being heavily flooded. When the wall of water from the dam reached the city - reports are it was 40 - 50 ft. high - everyone and everything in its path was washed away. To give an idea of the force of the water, two locomotives that had been sitting on a railroad track in its path were washed to a point a mile away!

Here's a 10 min. History Channel video about the dam failure: [video=youtube;IoObkmYseXY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoObkmYseXY[/video]