CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #11

[SATA]

I know what you are saying, but let's keep what facts we do know straight. He wasn't over 25. When they ran off he was 23 and she was 16, I believe. That's a 7-year difference. A lot? Yes, but not alarming so perhaps. Now I hadn't heard anything about him courting her when she was 10 - is there a link to that? He would be 17 at that point, and that would be creepy. I'd like to know the reference. It may be simply that they first met when she was 10. So... link please, if possible?
Not trying to excuse him. The whole episode of them running off was bizarre enough as it is, and they are equally to blame for what has happened.

Good post.
Louise 16 with a weird David age 23


No red flags?

 

[jash]

I know what you are saying, but let's keep what facts we do know straight. He wasn't over 25. When they ran off he was 23 and she was 16, I believe. That's a 7-year difference. A lot? Yes, but not alarming so perhaps. Now I hadn't heard anything about him courting her when she was 10 - is there a link to that? He would be 17 at that point, and that would be creepy. I'd like to know the reference. It may be simply that they first met when she was 10. So... link please, if possible?
Not trying to excuse him. The whole episode of them running off was bizarre enough as it is, and they are equally to blame for what has happened.

LT's sister talked about it (starts at 13:20 mark in video below). She said in 1996 she was with DT and LT and they told her that DT made a pass at LT when she was 10; DT said he'd had "the hots" for LT since she was 10 years old.

https://www.ctv.ca/Dr-Oz/Video/S9E1...ak-Out-From-Jail-Exclusive--Part-1-vid1257357

 

[SATA]

Everyone here is speculating. No one knows what went on, really, so we are just throwing out different scenarios. Not all see David as the less dominant party.

One person suggested that maybe David wanted lots of daughters to molest them and Louise tortured them out of jealousy. That does not sound to me as blaming Louise more than David.

Others have suggested that DT and LT got their jollies in a sado-masochistic way and extended that to the children. This sounds like sharing the blame.

As several people have pointed out, our culture assumes mothers will be loving and gentle. We are readier to accept indifference from fathers. This doesn’t mean we blame one more than the other necessarily, only that we are more surprised when it is the mother is indifferent/cruel than when it is the father. (As an analogy, teenage boys statistically have more car accidents than girls, but that doesn’t mean it is “worse” when it’s a teen age girl runs into a little-old-lady than if a boy had. But parents might say, “I am surprised that Susy has had more wrecks than Johnny,” and wonder why Susy is not as good/careful a driver as “teenage girls are supposed to be.”) Sexist generalizations are NOT okay, but to generalize that certain bad actions are more likely among men is not the same as excusing the bad actions when commited by men or blaming women for things that are excused in men.

Returning to the Turpin parents, I think that most of the scenarios suggested so far are plausible. David could be the monster mastermind. David could be a wimpy sort of narcissist who manipulates others into initiating and taking the lead on things which the narcissist wants. David could be an amoral predator or he could be so enthralled with Louise that he lets her call the shots. David could have physically abused Louise so that she could not judge for herself and lost the ability to act to protect herself and her kids. Or it could be the other way around. We don’t know.

As I have said before, it is probable that each had a particular set of things on which s/he led while there were things that met both of their needs. They were both twisted and “sick.” It is not very useful to quarrel over which one was worse or who initiated which torture.

But it seems everyone forgets that when they got together, David was 24 Louise 16 . When David got interest in Louise initially, she was 10 !

 

[FelicityLemon]

LT's sister talked about it (starts at 13:20 mark in video below). She said in 1996 she was with DT and LT and they told her that DT made a pass at LT when she was 10; DT said he'd had "the hots" for LT since she was 10 years old.

https://www.ctv.ca/Dr-Oz/Video/S9E1...ak-Out-From-Jail-Exclusive--Part-1-vid1257357

Well, nuts. I can't watch it.
"Sorry, the video you selected is not available for viewing in your region. 01"

 

[Cafemalyn]

As of now, she is the only relative we know of who has not exploited those kids and is trying to guard their privacy. So maybe a visit from her would be good. .

While I agree that this cousin (who has been silent) has clearly not shown any inclination to exploit the kids, I think that the same (no signs of trying to exploit) could be said about the cousin’s father, Randy Turpin, and his parents (the kids’ grandparents).

Please don’t get me wrong. I don’t think Randy Turpin (a fundie pastor who among other things has written in favor of fasting for spiritual cleansing) is particularly interested in protecting his nieces and nephews. And the grandparents obviously were not able to recognize that the grandchildren were being abused and instead were impressed that the kids “wanted” to memorize huge chunks of the Bible. So they don’t win any awards either.

However, given the way Louise’s sisters (and to a lesser extent, her half brother and cousin) have gotten on the “fame train” over this tragedy, the Turpin side of the family should be given credit for not pushing themselves into the limelight. In fact, they seem to have opted for discretion or even silence.

When the news broke and DT’s parents were first contacted, their immediate response was outrage at the accusation because they apparently had no clue that DT and LT had crossed the line from “strict” to torture. When it became clear that the evidence was overwhelming that DT and LT had starved and tortured their kids, they seem to have decided to be quiet about the case. Since about the second week I have not heard that they are trying to contact the grandkids (though it is likely they did) or even “praying for their son and grandchildren” much less challenged the foster placement of the younger ones. If they were trying to get attention or just justify themselves in the eyes of the world, we would have heard from them more.

And as for Randy Turpin, I believe that he would have preferred to have remained under the radar and not been identified by the press as DT’s brother. The man had to step down from his job as president of a fundie college, and he was obviously asked a lot of embarrassing questions. He is possibly under investigation.

His only public statements about the kids were early in the case and they ranged from the expected, “shocked and praying for them,” to a statement that he would want to adopt the minor kids. To the best of my knowledge, however, he has not come forward again. I am sure that like LT’s siblings, he has been offered opportunities to be interviewed and sell family pictures, etc. but he doesn’t seem inclined to go in that direction. (At least, not yet. He may be quietly writing a religious memoir about the experience, his soul searching, what the Lord said to him, etc., for all we know.)

Given his position as a fundie preacher and his background (Southern and Pentecostal) he pretty much “had” to say he wanted the kids. He didn’t say it to “exploit” their circumstances to get attention. On the contrary, he probably said it to take attention away from himself. (If he hadn’t indicated that he wanted the kids, he would have been harshly criticized by his community.) I fervently hope he doesn’t try too hard to get them.

Anyway, I just wouldn’t call all the relatives inclined to exploit the kids. So far there is a real difference between the two sides of the family.

 

[Cafemalyn]

But it seems everyone forgets that when they got together, David was 24 Louise 16 . When David got interest in Louise initially, she was 10 !

I don’t think “everyone forgets” the age difference. But it is only one detail among many others, not THE most important detail. I hadn’t heard that DT first got interested in LT when she was 10, and if the source is only Elizabeth Flores, I am going to take it with a huge pinch of salt.

Back to the age difference, I don’t “approve” of relationships of more than 3 years’ difference that involve a teen, but by itself a 20-something dating/marrying a15 or 16 year old is not a sign of sexual deviance.

Elvis Presley met Priscilla when he was 24 and she was 14. They married when she was eighteen, but he was definitely “grooming her” the years in between. Loretta Lynn and her husband married when she was 15 and he was 21. Neither of these marriages were great. The men clearly enjoyed the power of their greater worldly experience, at least in the early years. But to the best of my knowledge, neither of these men had a “thing” for young girls.

So, yeah, it could be that the origins of DT’s sick relationship with LT is a sign that he has a sexual predilection for teenagers. But his interest in her may have been driven by other perversions than a predilection for teens.

Definitely, there was an imbalance of power there, and possibly he may have taken advantage of her desire to get away from home. The start of their relationship should “ring bells,” but we don’t know yet what tune these bells are really playing.

I’m in favor of looking at all the possibilities and scenarios because we all bring different insights to this troubling case. I am just not convinced that we have enough data to be sure about anything except that these were two very troubled people who managed to do a lot of harm to their poor children for a very long time.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it does turn out that DT had “a thing” for young girls and abused his own daughters sexually. But I also wouldn’t be surprised if the sexual component ends up being incidental or peripheral to the family dynamics. This is a very unusual case and IIrc, we don’t know enough.

 

[Cafemalyn]

I know what you are saying, but let's keep what facts we do know straight. He wasn't over 25. When they ran off he was 23 and she was 16, I believe. That's a 7-year difference. A lot? Yes, but not alarming so perhaps. Now I hadn't heard anything about him courting her when she was 10 - is there a link to that? He would be 17 at that point, and that would be creepy. I'd like to know the reference. It may be simply that they first met when she was 10. So... link please, if possible?
Not trying to excuse him. The whole episode of them running off was bizarre enough as it is, and they are equally to blame for what has happened.

Thanks for the correction. I didn’t remember the exact age difference. But actually, my point is the same one you are making. We don’t know enough, and the 7 year difference may or may not be significant. Sorry I got the age wrong.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

BBM - This reminds me of what was said on Dr. Oz this week. Apparently LT did not ask her sister and cousin about her kids; she was only concerned about herself and DT. LT then asked her sister and cousin to go visit DT because "she felt sorry for him and that he had no visitors". The crime correspondent on the show said she learned that LT and DT have been passing notes to each other while in jail.

Link: https://www.ctv.ca/Dr-Oz/Video/S9E1...ak-Out-From-Jail-Exclusive--Part-1-vid1257357 (hopefully the video works outside of Canada)

BBM

Interesting. LT's relatives are all over the medias and visiting the Ts and trying to visit the survivors. DT's relatives are keeping a very low profile and apparently do not visit him.

 

[SkipperKey3]

I don’t think “everyone forgets” the age difference. But it is only one detail among many others, not THE most important detail. I hadn’t heard that DT first got interested in LT when she was 10, and if the source is only Elizabeth Flores, I am going to take it with a huge pinch of salt.

Back to the age difference, I don’t “approve” of relationships of more than 3 years’ difference that involve a teen, but by itself a 20-something dating/marrying a15 or 16 year old is not a sign of sexual deviance.

Elvis Presley met Priscilla when he was 24 and she was 14. They married when she was eighteen, but he was definitely “grooming her” the years in between. Loretta Lynn and her husband married when she was 15 and he was 21. Neither of these marriages were great. The men clearly enjoyed the power of their greater worldly experience, at least in the early years. But to the best of my knowledge, neither of these men had a “thing” for young girls.

So, yeah, it could be that the origins of DT’s sick relationship with LT is a sign that he has a sexual predilection for teenagers. But his interest in her may have been driven by other perversions than a predilection for teens.

Definitely, there was an imbalance of power there, and possibly he may have taken advantage of her desire to get away from home. The start of their relationship should “ring bells,” but we don’t know yet what tune these bells are really playing.

I’m in favor of looking at all the possibilities and scenarios because we all bring different insights to this troubling case. I am just not convinced that we have enough data to be sure about anything except that these were two very troubled people who managed to do a lot of harm to their poor children for a very long time.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it does turn out that DT had “a thing” for young girls and abused his own daughters sexually. But I also wouldn’t be surprised if the sexual component ends up being incidental or peripheral to the family dynamics. This is a very unusual case and IIrc, we don’t know enough.

Thanks for the correction. I didn’t remember the exact age difference. But actually, my point is the same one you are making. We don’t know enough, and the 7 year difference may or may not be significant. Sorry I got the age wrong.

No, we definitely don't know enough. I have a feeling that they used each other, and that it was't just one using the other. DT was drawn to the young LT and decided to pursue it. LT badly wanted out of her troubled family life. So they decided that it was in both of their best interests to run away and get married. But don't get me wrong, from all I can see, there does seem to be genuine affection between them.

All in all, it was still a rather bizarre situation, and we really can't say much more than that with any certainty.

 

[SkipperKey3]

LT's sister talked about it (starts at 13:20 mark in video below). She said in 1996 she was with DT and LT and they told her that DT made a pass at LT when she was 10; DT said he'd had "the hots" for LT since she was 10 years old.

https://www.ctv.ca/Dr-Oz/Video/S9E1...ak-Out-From-Jail-Exclusive--Part-1-vid1257357

I'll take your word for it, because I couldn't access the link. But we know very little, and I don't know how much LT's sister really knows about what happened when LT was 10, either, because she was significantly younger that LT. It might be common family knowledge. Or it might be somewhat anecdotal - "he must really love her, because he's been after her since she was 10!"

 

[McJenn]

I can't get past the note passing in jail. If they were aware of it, they should have stopped it immediately...moved them to a different area or something.

 

[Satch]

I agree. I don't understand why or how if they have separate legal representation, they would be allowed to communicate at all!

Ooh, new charge possible - witness tampering? :thinking:

What are the details of DT and LT being allowed to communicate with each other? How do they communicate with each other and how often?

Satch

 

[ClockworkSecret]

Satch, jash posted the information about note-passing in this forum:

LT then asked her sister and cousin [on the Dr. Oz show] to go visit DT because "she felt sorry for him and that he had no visitors". The crime correspondent on the show said she learned that LT and DT have been passing notes to each other while in jail.

He posted this link
https://www.ctv.ca/Dr-Oz/Video/S9E1...ak-Out-From-Jail-Exclusive--Part-1-vid1257357
to the show, but the video is not viewable outside of Canada, so I haven't been able to verify it. Maybe we could track down a transcript?

 

[FelicityLemon]

I had no idea so much child rape was legal (if married) and in so many states.

Here's a graphic showing the legal minimum age for marriage by individual state the US. It looks like fully 50% of the states (25) have NO age floor. West Virginia is one of those. New Hampshire minimum age is 13. Only Virginia and Texas are 18.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/16/594253182/kentucky-votes-to-ban-child-marriage


Standard age in all states for statutory rape is under 16, but the law doesn't apply if the victim child is married to the perpetrator. Sounds like another country or two that have been in the news where the the victim (no matter the age) must marry her rapist allegedly to protect her from being ruined by being labeled a s__t, etc. In reality it's to protect the rapist from prosecution and she is destroyed all over again.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-R-0376.htm

 

[human]

I had no idea so much child rape was legal (if married) and in so many states.

Here's a graphic showing the legal minimum age for marriage by individual state the US. It looks like fully 50% of the states (25) have NO age floor. West Virginia is one of those. New Hampshire minimum age is 13. Only Virginia and Texas are 18.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/16/594253182/kentucky-votes-to-ban-child-marriage


Standard age in all states for statutory rape is under 16, but the law doesn't apply if the victim child is married to the perpetrator. Sounds like another country or two that have been in the news where the the victim (no matter the age) must marry her rapist allegedly to protect her from being ruined by being labeled a s__t, etc. In reality it's to protect the rapist from prosecution and she is destroyed all over again.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-R-0376.htm

There have been recent attempts to change the law and THEY HAVE BEEN SHOT DOWN IMMEDIATELY, I am shouting because people complain about other countries. This is heinous.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Dr. Oz interview videos of sister and cousin:

http://www.doctoroz.com/episode/true-crime-house-horrors-how-could-happen?video_id=5722023273001

 

[FelicityLemon]

In watching this video :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLvF0SN3g3c
Sister says she was 19 or 20 while staying with the T's. That would make her an adult when DT and LT were picking the lock and making her get out of shower naked in front of them. That's creeeeeepy and gross, but definitely not pedophilia. I don't know why, but I had thought she was much, much younger. I also didn't realize that the control began when the oldest children were very young - kindergarten?

Sister says LT seemed to be making all the decisions, while DT sat back and watched.
Q: Did he passively and silently watch his wife because his wife was truly in charge (of him) or did he watch passively and stayed silent because he knew he was the one in control because of prearranged behavior that they would PRESENT to family that LT was in charge and was monitoring her? Or, it could have been both equally. We'll know at some point.

 

[SATA]

Something weird I found.
Not that it means a lot, but it is strange.

The female siblings seem to have had two pairs of shoes for the vows renewal.
The older ones anyway. Very high heeled ones and flat ones. I wonder why.
I watched the entire video, and as far as I remember, the older female siblings wore the high heeled ones throughout.
Maybe I should watch it again...

Take a look at these photos:

​

 

[SATA]

Something weird I found.
Not that it means a lot, but it is strange.

The female siblings seem to have had two pairs of shoes for the vows renewal.
The older ones anyway. Very high heeled ones and flat ones. I wonder why.
I watched the entire video, and as far as I remember, the older female siblings wore the high heeled ones throughout.
Maybe I should watch it again...

Take a look at these photos:

​

I have been told there were two ceremonies, and looking at the photos, Louise is wearing different dresses.
Also, baby in one, no baby in the other.

What odd people having the same ceremony twice!

 

[FelicityLemon]

I think the weddings might be two different years? Her hair is different, too - in one picture I found, it's a definitely shorter and lighter in color like she had a salon "do". I could see them recycling the same dresses, especially if they're not growing as healthy children would be.

It could be that if they keep their children at a certain age, it will be like they haven't aged, either. Lots of people love hearing how "This is your child? Why, you don't look old enough to be their parent!"

A right of passage for young women is getting to wear our first "high" heel shoes. I remember feeling SO sophisticated with my first pair of high heels while in 8th grade (14 yo) for a dance. When I found them a few years later in high school (buried in boxes in the dreaded closet purge), I laughed and laughed because they were only .5" tall! We felt so grown-up

:happydance: