CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #8

[jessie]

All right, folks .. it took 4 days but I've finally caught up here. I'm a longtime WS lurker but just made an account today bc I wanted to have access to some of the links/attachments in the Turpin threads. I've followed every article on this case from every news outlet since day 1, but you guys have done a fabulous job collecting/organizing links here & I THANK YOU SO MUCH for that.

I am/was a court reporter/stenographer in CA from Feb 2011 thru April 2017 -- I'm just out on medical rn -- but I've spent several hundred hours taking down all manner of child abuse & domestic violence type cases in family law & civil court in Northern California. I am NOT an attorney & def NOT an expert by any means, but I will say I feel for the ppl here who are offering counter-arguments to the alleged abuse, or possible explanations for the alleged abuse -- NOT BECAUSE WE DON'T BELIEVE THE ABUSE ACTUALLY HAPPENED, but bc we are trying to formulate in our minds what the defense MIGHT say when/if this thing goes to trial. (And calling it "alleged abuse" is not at all indicating the abuse didn't happen -- that's just the language we are "supposed" to use while the case is pending. It's semantics, really.)

Keep in mind it might not actually go to trial. They may reach a plea agreement of some kind. I'd wager that's pretty likely, considering the widespread media coverage affecting potential jury pool, AND esp if the prosecution does not want the kids to have to testify. (I'm aware most of the "kids" are not really "kids" but considering their assumed developmental delays, well, all the more reason to not make them testify & relive all this nightmare .. I want them to get on w/ their healing & their lives.)

Incidentally, I am a white brunette 29-yr-old female, born 1988, and reading about the eldest Turpin daughter really hit me. I'm 5'9" & 140 lbs. If she really weighed in the 80s when they found her...my god. I can't imagine. Yes I've seen all the photos .. & my heart breaks w/ every new detail I hear. I am glad the media is lumping all the children in together regardless of age, bc I daresay the damage done to the adult children is even worse than that done to the minors...as in accumulatively, obv.

I feel strongly that the contents of the journals may not play a role in the case at all. We don't know yet what's in them, & I somehow doubt they are day-by-day, play-by-play details of the alleged abuse. I was never abused or neglected in the manner the Turpin kids were, but I was raised in the LDS church & was instructed to keep a journal from a young age, and most of what I wrote was just what my parents & church leaders WANTED me to write or EXPECTED me to write, as opposed to any of my real actual thoughts/feelings at the time. JME

One thing kinda bugging me is all the speculation about LT's smiling during the most recent hearing. I don't have children but yes I agree it is TOTALLY BIZARRE for any genuinely caring mother to smile for :EVEN ONE MOMENT in such circumstances .. but this has come up in many other cases I've followed over the years. Skylar Neese's teenage murderer Shelia Eddy raised many eyebrows after smiling/smirking thru her first few court appearances. Yeah maybe not totally relevant bc she was very young & this was a totally diff type of case, BUT many observers commented that it may have been 1) pure nervousness, 2) her way of signaling "everything's okay" to onlookers (or even just to herself?) or 3) it was simply her genuine reaction to suddenly being in a totally foreign & very heavy situation. I don't think it's right for the media to scream "LT SMILES THRU ENTIRE COURT APPEARANCE!" bc that's not what she did...but that's just the defense atty in me, I guess .. like, I'm just trying to see their potential angle on it. It's NOT justification, and yeah I hope these "parents" (massive eyeroll) get what's coming to them. I'm just looking at it objectively from having sat in a heck of a lot of courtrooms (tho yes I acknowledge I've spent a very short time working in the field, compared to some of the attys on this site).

:goodpost: :tyou:

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Yes, I caught that part, too! I know someone who does that with their dog - they prepare the dog's dinner and hold the bowl, and the dog must obediently wait and sit before they put it on the floor. For a dog training that makes sense. For a child, it's creating learned dependency, it's about control and deeply sinister (I shudder at a small child looking into LT's eyes), and shows a complete lack of love from the mother. Whatever label helps people assess LT works, she is clearly evil and she perpetrated her brand of evil against her own children.

As dog training, it is ultimately to establish dominance. It tells the dog that you are in charge, it is dependent on you, and so it must obey. Makes sense that we have to control our dogs at all times to avoid dangerous situations for them and others.

But for a kid - it's just sick.

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[PoirotryInMotion]

I think that maybe the kids cut the screen instead of removing it because 1) they didn’t know it could come off so easily; or 2) removing it could make more noise; and/or 3) removing it would be far more obvious, so they cut the hole at shrub-level and escaped into the shrub, which would also give them more cover from neighbors potentially seeing them escape.

Do we know the screen was *cut*? I've not yet read that stated anywhere, though could have missed it. I've seen a news photo of the front window with the Christmas star that some have said shows a cut-out rectangle. (To me it's way too 'crisp'--it looks more like a horizontal sheet of construction paper with a slightly bent corner, perhaps a handmade piece of Christmas decoration--manger scene?--in that star window.) Not the easiest window to escape from with those hedges right there, either. I would've guessed an escape from a side or rear window, instead.

(Sorry to have missed the link establishing that fact if there is one--have not read every thread or post in here.)

ETA--nevermind, I found the photo at the end of the last thread. Clearly cut. Thanks for your patience with me.

 

[rsd1200]

I think this might be one of those "two nations separated by a common language" things, we've developed different words for things, we sometimes use the same word for a different thing (suspenders, for instance, are different things in British English and American English) and then add in dialectical differences on top. So maybe you're referring to what we call midges? What my mum called a gnat was a biting thing that has a high pitch buzzing sound and massive groups of them fly around moist patches in very hot weather, which I believe is a mosquito.

O/T I live in the Appalachian Region of the U.S. and I've heard gnats called midges here. We have a little different dialect than lots of other places in the staes though.

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[Deleted member 278]

Do we know the screen was *cut*? I've not yet read that stated anywhere, though could have missed it. I've seen a news photo of the front window with the Christmas star that some have said shows a cut-out rectangle. (To me it's way too 'crisp'--it looks more like a horizontal sheet of construction paper with a slightly bent corner, perhaps a handmade piece of Christmas decoration--manger scene?--in that star window.) Not the easiest window to escape from with those hedges right there, either. I would've guessed an escape from a side or rear window, instead.

(Sorry to have missed the link establishing that fact if there is one--have not read every thread or post in here.)

You are probably looking at the photo I first saw that made me think it was a shadow. However, someone posted a much better picture yesterday that clearly shows the screen was cut.

 

[Deleted member 278]

Post #21 on this thread shows a good picture of the cut screen.
But, I think you are right in that it hasn't been confirmed that is how she escaped.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

There is another drawing on the wall in picture 8/30. Noughts and crosses/tic tac toe maybe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5318481/House-Horrors-pair-fled-Texas-child-sought-help.html

I really think it's possible that the word next to the drawing on the wall is Jeni. When you write an N in capitals, if either the pen is being janky and doesn't produce ink the entire time (or even a pencil that is down to the nub hits the wood portion instead of the graphite), the first stroke of the N can be missed. This happens to me sometimes when just writing quickly, where I miss a stroke.

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[Deleted member 158085]

O/T I live in the Appalachian Region of the U.S. and I've heard gnats called midges here. We have a little different dialect than lots of other places in the staes though.

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OT - I suspect that's because so many Scots and Irish settled in Appalachia years ago.

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[jjenny]

Yes, I think Elizabeth Smart is a poster child for Stockholm Syndrome. She had endless opportunities to escape, and took none of them. She was simply not trying to get away.

Stockholm syndrome is when victim identifies with their abuser. It doesn't seem that ES liked her kidnapper very much. In her case it seems she was simply scared to do anything to get away rather than staying with her kidnapper because she identified with him.

 

[Oceanaire]

I really think it's possible that the word next to the drawing on the wall is Jeni. When you write an N in capitals, if either the pen is being janky and doesn't produce ink the entire time (or even a pencil that is down to the nub hits the wood portion instead of the graphite), the first stroke of the N can be missed. This happens to me sometimes when just writing quickly, where I miss a stroke.

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Jeni would make the most sense

 

[KaaBoom]

Do we know the screen was *cut*? I've not yet read that stated anywhere, though could have missed it. I've seen a news photo of the front window with the Christmas star that some have said shows a cut-out rectangle. (To me it's way too 'crisp'--it looks more like a horizontal sheet of construction paper with a slightly bent corner, perhaps a handmade piece of Christmas decoration--manger scene?--in that star window.) Not the easiest window to escape from with those hedges right there, either. I would've guessed an escape from a side or rear window, instead.

(Sorry to have missed the link establishing that fact if there is one--have not read every thread or post in here.)

ETA--nevermind, I found the photo at the end of the last thread. Clearly cut. Thanks for your patience with me.

I think the pictures have established that the screen was cut.

Two possible reasons I can think of for choosing that location to escape from. 1. That was the girl's bedroom, who was planning the escape, and therefore the most convenient place to escape from, or 2. That was the location farthest from the parent's bedroom in the back of the house. An escape attempt from any of the other windows would have probably been heard by the parents.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I think the pictures have established that the screen was cut.

Two possible reasons I can think of for choosing that location to escape from. 1. That was the girl's bedroom, who was planning the escape, and therefore the most convenient place to escape from, or 2. That was the location farthest from the parent's bedroom in the back of the house. An escape attempt from any of the other windows would have probably been heard by the parents.

Yes, thx, Kaaboom--I did amend my post (see ETA at bottom) after seeing the second, closeup photo at the end of yesterday's thread. And, as you say, if that was the escapee's bedroom, I agree she wouldn't have been too picky about the window she chose (bushes or no bushes).

 

[ShHolmz]

I have to say that if a neighbor child approached me asking for help and a ride and info on how to escape such as how to get a driver's license and how to reach the police, I would help that child and drive them to the police station to tell their story. I would feel obligated as a normal person and I would have to help the child. I don't understand why someone, apparently a police officer, would return them to the abusive home the child was allegedly trying to escape. Did the officer even inspect the home and notice it was trashed and the siblings were also suffering and starving? Or take the child seriously? I have so many questions.

Agreed... IMO.... this tells me this child wanted to make sure they could take everyone to freedom if possible. Faster getaway with a car, not like escaping alone, on foot calling 911.

 

[A2FMNST]

I can smell what my neighbors are smoking!
And it's not on a grill!!
MOO

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LOL....Color me incredulous. I find it hard to believe that in the almost 4 YEARS these neighbors were never in their back yard with their kids playing outside, letting dogs out, cutting grass, pruning bushes, etc.

In my neighborhood we look out for each other. In the summer the neighbors with young kids will take turns supervising them if one of us needs to run inside really quick. If my neighbor’s kid falls off their bike while I am outside I rush over to help them. They do the same for my kid. We have an old gentleman a few doors down that we check on frequently. In the winter we snow blow his sidewalk/driveway, etc.

Even if the neighbors DID smell this, I ask myself what could/would/should they have done? Call the police for a smell?

My heart is just breaking to think that these poor survivors could have been saved from this hell years ago.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

I am no psychologist, but I did take a Psych 101 class in college. There are some people that actually live in a complete fantasy world, similar to people who are addicted to gambling, and are truly disconnected to reality. It could be Disney, Star Wars, Star Trek, or anything. Also, when I look at that enormous DVD collection spanning that entire wall of the triple garage and multiply that about how many hours it would take to watch every one of them just once, we are talking multiple years.

Also in the Psych 101 class, there were a couple of lectures on cults. Also, there are plenty of people that obsess about these things, but I have never heard of obsessions with Disney associated with purposefully starving children. I have heard of people purposefully starving their own child to make them look sick so that they can go around collecting donations because they claim their child has some sort of disease. I haven't heard anything like that related to this case, however.

So, an OCD detachment disorder?
What was that movie?
Twilight Zone?
Back in the 80's. I remember a child in front of cartoons that had no mouth.
Haunting!!!
Here's a 30 second link.

https://youtu.be/fvUJBcuLl6U
MOO

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[Stunned]

It just might be that LT wants to go to trial for the notoriety. She's famous, don't ya know? She just might take the stand too!

I can see her loving the attention!

 

[KaaBoom]

Stockholm syndrome is when victim identifies with their abuser. It doesn't seem that ES liked her kidnapper very much. In her case it seems she was simply scared to do anything to get away rather than staying with her kidnapper because she identified with him.

Why didn't she just yell, "Help me, I'm Elizabeth Smart. I've been kidnaped" while they were sitting in the restaurant or when the kidnapper was talking to the cop in the library? Why even after she was alone with the police, did she only admit to being Elizabeth Smart, after they told her they knew who she was, and that her father was on the way to pick her up? That's not fear, that is classic Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

All right, folks .. it took 4 days but I've finally caught up here. I'm a longtime WS lurker but just made an account today bc I wanted to have access to some of the links/attachments in the Turpin threads. I've followed every article on this case from every news outlet since day 1, but you guys have done a fabulous job collecting/organizing links here & I THANK YOU SO MUCH for that.

I am/was a court reporter/stenographer in CA from Feb 2011 thru April 2017 -- I'm just out on medical rn -- but I've spent several hundred hours taking down all manner of child abuse & domestic violence type cases in family law & civil court in Northern California. I am NOT an attorney & def NOT an expert by any means, but I will say I feel for the ppl here who are offering counter-arguments to the alleged abuse, or possible explanations for the alleged abuse -- NOT BECAUSE WE DON'T BELIEVE THE ABUSE ACTUALLY HAPPENED, but bc we are trying to formulate in our minds what the defense MIGHT say when/if this thing goes to trial. (And calling it "alleged abuse" is not at all indicating the abuse didn't happen -- that's just the language we are "supposed" to use while the case is pending. It's semantics, really.)

Keep in mind it might not actually go to trial. They may reach a plea agreement of some kind. I'd wager that's pretty likely, considering the widespread media coverage affecting potential jury pool, AND esp if the prosecution does not want the kids to have to testify. (I'm aware most of the "kids" are not really "kids" but considering their assumed developmental delays, well, all the more reason to not make them testify & relive all this nightmare .. I want them to get on w/ their healing & their lives.)

Incidentally, I am a white brunette 29-yr-old female, born 1988, and reading about the eldest Turpin daughter really hit me. I'm 5'9" & 140 lbs. If she really weighed in the 80s when they found her...my god. I can't imagine. Yes I've seen all the photos .. & my heart breaks w/ every new detail I hear. I am glad the media is lumping all the children in together regardless of age, bc I daresay the damage done to the adult children is even worse than that done to the minors...as in accumulatively, obv.

I feel strongly that the contents of the journals may not play a role in the case at all. We don't know yet what's in them, & I somehow doubt they are day-by-day, play-by-play details of the alleged abuse. I was never abused or neglected in the manner the Turpin kids were, but I was raised in the LDS church & was instructed to keep a journal from a young age, and most of what I wrote was just what my parents & church leaders WANTED me to write or EXPECTED me to write, as opposed to any of my real actual thoughts/feelings at the time. JME

One thing kinda bugging me is all the speculation about LT's smiling during the most recent hearing. I don't have children but yes I agree it is TOTALLY BIZARRE for any genuinely caring mother to smile for EVEN ONE MOMENT in such circumstances .. but this has come up in many other cases I've followed over the years. Skylar Neese's teenage murderer Shelia Eddy raised many eyebrows after smiling/smirking thru her first few court appearances. Yeah maybe not totally relevant bc she was very young & this was a totally diff type of case, BUT many observers commented that it may have been 1) pure nervousness, 2) her way of signaling "everything's okay" to onlookers (or even just to herself?) or 3) it was simply her genuine reaction to suddenly being in a totally foreign & very heavy situation. I don't think it's right for the media to scream "LT SMILES THRU ENTIRE COURT APPEARANCE!" bc that's not what she did...but that's just the defense atty in me, I guess .. like, I'm just trying to see their potential angle on it. It's NOT justification, and yeah I hope these "parents" (massive eyeroll) get what's coming to them. I'm just looking at it objectively from having sat in a heck of a lot of courtrooms (tho yes I acknowledge I've spent a very short time working in the field, compared to some of the attys on this site).

:welcome:
Great post!
At 24,
I was 5 ft 9 in and 95#
( & Pregnant)
HOWEVER, I was married, never abused and from a VERY skinny family with a boring normal upbringing.
(* and at that weight as hard as I tried to gain weight when pregnant, my little girl was born at 25 1/2 weeks and weighed 1# 13oz. She is 26 now totally healthy!!)

Skinny is one thing, starved and shackled is a whole different ball game!

So I tend to lean more toward the vitamin and mineral deficiency as well as the PTSD that these precious people are suffering from.

At any rate, they did not chose the life they led and while some people may lead seemingly healthy lives... it still isn't healthy to be so slim. ( at least to try and grow another human!)

My [emoji173] breaks for the "kids".

The 2 that donated the DNA that created them, I have not a care at all!

MOO


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[KaaBoom]

Yes, thx, Kaaboom--I did amend my post (see ETA at bottom) after seeing the second, closeup photo at the end of yesterday's thread. And, as you say, if that was the escapee's bedroom, I agree she wouldn't have been too picky about the window she chose (bushes or no bushes).

Yes, I agree. I don't think the bushes were a concern. Her only concern would have been her parents not hearing her leave the house.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

LOL....Color me incredulous. I find it hard to believe that in the almost 4 YEARS these neighbors were never in their back yard with their kids playing outside, letting dogs out, cutting grass, pruning bushes, etc.

In my neighborhood we look out for each other. In the summer the neighbors with young kids will take turns supervising them if one of us needs to run inside really quick. If my neighbor’s kid falls off their bike while I am outside I rush over to help them. They do the same for my kid. We have an old gentleman a few doors down that we check on frequently. In the winter we snow blow his sidewalk/driveway, etc.

Even if the neighbors DID smell this, I ask myself what could/would/should they have done? Call the police for a smell?

My heart is just breaking to think that these poor survivors could have been saved from this hell years ago.

Our neighborhood is the same.
It takes a village to raise a child.
In this internet ERA, I think we need to put our phones down and pay more attention- or take photos/videos when out gut says "something is wrong here"!

I do both!
MOO




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