Found Deceased CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #13

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So much about this case has had my hinky meter on high alert from Day 1. It's still on high alert.

I know TOS forbids me to say certain things so I remain sitting on my hands.

My belief is that Barbara did not disappear herself and I have a hard time believing that "poof" she just disappeared on a trek in the desert.

I have friends with RV's and dogs. The big thing is that the dogs get to come along. That's one of the advantages. It never made sense to me that they kenneled their dog. I found that strange. So the big question would be "why was the dog boarded and didn't come on the trip?" There's a reason. I think that reason will lead us to other things.

MOO
 
At the same time, it appears that BT used this kennel before to board her dog(s). IIRC, the employees knew her, recognized her. This does not appear to be a first time the dog was boarded. I believe one of the employees told the nephew BT seemed aggravated that morning, that does not mean to me it was because of leaving the dog before their trip. She could have been upset at any one number of things or the employee got it wrong.

I remember thinking these were responsible dog owners who were going to board the dog and not take it out in that high heat. Others thought the dog would be fine alone in the air conditioned RV while they were on their walk/hike. It might have been normal for the dog not to go on every single RV/camping trip. IMO
 
crhedBngr said:
RBBM

Wow. IMO, this speaks volumes.
Click to expand...
Bbm
I concur. ^^^

Sometimes a lawyer will decline to represent someone if they feel that person hasn't been forthright with them.
OR --someone feels enough time has passed that they no longer need to worry about unseemly questions from anyone ?
OR --someone no longer wants to see their funds spent needlessly ?
Or a combination of any of the above.
Indeed intriguing and agreed it's telling.
Imo.
 
Tealgrove said:
So much about this case has had my hinky meter on high alert from Day 1. It's still on high alert.

I know TOS forbids me to say certain things so I remain sitting on my hands.

My belief is that Barbara did not disappear herself and I have a hard time believing that "poof" she just disappeared on a trek in the desert.

I have friends with RV's and dogs. The big thing is that the dogs get to come along. That's one of the advantages. It never made sense to me that they kenneled their dog. I found that strange. So the big question would be "why was the dog boarded and didn't come on the trip?" There's a reason. I think that reason will lead us to other things.

MOO
Click to expand...
bbm
Ita.

This is just my musings without the experience of being a human remains detection dog handler :
What IF Barbara's dog went on the trip and accompanied her along at least part of the hike ?
Wouldn't there be an extra scent trail to follow ?
And also wouldn't Lexie know the scent of her 'mom' and be able to point out where Barbara went ?

Many small clues but it seems that day especially RT didn't want to take the dog along.
Of course we'll never know.
But we can speculate.

Maybe Barbara was planning to take the dog and was upset about having to kennel her on that day ?
Imo.
 
LietKynes said:
bbm
Ita.

This is just my musings without the experience of being a human remains detection dog handler :
What IF Barbara's dog went on the trip and accompanied her along at least part of the hike ?
Wouldn't there be an extra scent trail to follow ?
And also wouldn't Lexie know the scent of her 'mom' and be able to point out where Barbara went ?
Click to expand...

What an interesting thought. Even if Lexie didn't go that day and had never been to that exact spot before, it would have been an excellent idea (assuming BT really did disappear from the hike as claimed) to bring the dog there, especially in the first few days, to see what scent she might have followed.
 
Tealgrove said:
So much about this case has had my hinky meter on high alert from Day 1. It's still on high alert.

I know TOS forbids me to say certain things so I remain sitting on my hands.

My belief is that Barbara did not disappear herself and I have a hard time believing that "poof" she just disappeared on a trek in the desert.

I have friends with RV's and dogs. The big thing is that the dogs get to come along. That's one of the advantages. It never made sense to me that they kenneled their dog. I found that strange. So the big question would be "why was the dog boarded and didn't come on the trip?" There's a reason. I think that reason will lead us to other things.

MOO
Click to expand...
It was a new RV. Maybe they didn’t want to run the risk of the dog relieving itself in the RV, chewing, and so forth.

amateur opinion and speculation
 
The posts from dbdb11..Verified Family Member Barbara Thomas Case, Male...provide a lot of insight to this case. I went back to his posts to try and find more information about Lexi. What immediately leap out at me from dbdb11's comments about RT was the odd similarity between what RT said about his missing wife BT and what Barry M. said about his missing wife Suzanne. According to dbdb, RT stated that BT might have been picked up and taken to Las Vegas, and..."on arrival the search and rescue crews destroyed any evidence of a potential crime scene." Similarly, BM offered that SM went for a bicycle ride...was then possibly carried away by an animal or person, and LE destroyed evidence around the area where SM's bicycle was found. Both men also requested that their wives be returned no questions asked...a rhetorical offer, imo. The strange aspects of their near identical comments is their hypothesis that their wives were taken a distance away from where they supposedly went missing, while also claiming that the area where their wives were thought to have been last is a potential crime scene that was muddled up investigators and search teams. Here are two links to all of dbdb11 insightful posts. https://www.websleuths.com/forums/members/dbdb11.248345/ https://www.websleuths.com/forums/search/85178618/
Also, here is the post where dbdb11 says RT said the area was a potential crime scene and search and rescue teams destroyed evidence.
POST BEGINS:
They parked the camper on the pull off, just speculating here of course, hid truck/RV key under a rock they both would be able to find quite easily, they crossed over Kelbaker road (with a camera?, a gallon of water, at least one beer in a travel mug or coozie?, Barb in either bikini top or possibly bra? Robbie carrying a pack of some kind?), once on the other side of the road they proceeded to walk (NOT HIKE) approx 2 miles (exactly 2.2 miles according to Robbie's correspondence with us) towards a hill that could be seen from the parking area just ahead of where they pulled off the road.

Once on this hill Barb decided to take a panorama photo of their surroundings (which I assume includes Robbie in the panorama. If it is a 360 photo as Rob initially suggested they likely brought a 360 camera, and Barb and Robbie should both be in this image). Robbie claims the 360/panorama photo Barb took from this hill includes cars in the parking lot below, potentially even license plate numbers? and was very upset police were not looking into the owners of these cars as potential suspects (and were instead suspecting him, and seemingly ignoring his statements on the day she went missing). I assume if the cars were clearly visible in the picture, surely Rob and Barb would have been plainly visible to anyone in a car in the parking lot below the hill as well.

As they were on the way back from the hill, towards their RV, there was a rock formation Robbie implies they were both interested in. He stopped to take a photo of this rock formation and "asked Barb to stay with me," but she went on ahead anyway. Sounds quite stubborn of her. Perhaps they had some kind of disagreement? In any case, he says she wanted to get back to the RV.

This is where Barb rounds a corner, we can assume she rounds a boulder outcrop that puts her out of Robbie's sight. Robbie has never specified how long he spent taking photos of this rock formation, but he claimed to us that police have photos of Barb on the walk, that day, and that police have photos of the rock formation as well. Robbie and Barb have no known social media accounts where they share photos of their adventures with friends/family.

As Robbie made his way back to the RV he did not have any concerns. The RV was less than 1/4 mile (1000 ft) away from where he last saw her, he has claimed, and was never concerned about how far ahead she could have gotten, between him and the RV. He made his way back to the RV and was not immediately concerned that he didn't see her there. He was hot, he has told us, and poured some water on a towel and put it on his head. After a few minutes of her not turning up he began to grow concerned. He did not immediately look for any signs of tire tracks, or signs of abduction/kidnapping. He proceeded to shout and wave his arms, as well as backtrack to a cave they both knew was in the area. His thinking was, perhaps she went there to get out of the sun (between when she left him and the few minutes it took him to get back to the RV from the rock formation).

According to public records he called the police around 3pm?, and according to Robbie they arrived two hours after he called? On arrival the search and rescue crews destroyed any evidence of a potential crime scene, according to Robbie. If this account is accurate, what did Robbie do in those two hours?

Robbie served in Vietnam, and also has years of experience visiting the Mojave desert, including familiarity with Kelbaker's immediate geological features, and, I would assume, a keen sense for his surroundings. He didn't think to look for signs of abduction, or a struggle? He didn't follow up with the cars parked in the parking lot just down the road (but did check in a cave???)? He didn't look for signs of a struggle around the RV but concludes she must have been abducted? That abduction is the ONLY logical conclusion?

I think we are missing some vital information here and would like to hear a much more detailed account of what Robbie did between taking photos of the rock formation, returning to the RV, searching the area for Barb, calling police, and search and rescue finally arriving. I think our timeline of events could do with clarification.

FOR REFERENCE:

Walking speed 1000 meters or 1 kilometer per 10 minutes ( m/min – km/min ), converted to foot per 10 minutes equals 3280.84 feet per 10 minutes ( ft/min ).

According to the above generalisation Robbie was approx 3 plus MINUTES away from the RV.
I would like to include some further speculation for everyone to consider. Robbie drove across state lines to the only S on a quiet road, the first stage of an otherwise undefined camping trip. He hasn't told any of us anymore about what this trip entailed, or what they were initially planning. They pulled off the road in a place with enough room for other cars to pull off as well. They began their walk in the Mojave around/ or not long after HIGH NOON, in RECORD HEAT. This all happened on a Friday, a weekday, when many others who might otherwise be hiking and exploring the desert area, would have more likely been at work. Regular hikers familiar with the area, and other locals have expressed it would be foolish and naive to wander into the Mojave for a casual walk at this time of day (unless of course your plans required not being seen by anyone else).

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dbdb11, Jul 31, 2019 Report
#223 Like
 
Last edited:
trujac said:
The posts from dbdb11..Verified Family Member Barbara Thomas Case, Male...provide a lot of insight to this case. I went back to his posts to try and find more information about Lexi. What immediately leap out at me from dbdb11's comments about RT was the odd similarity between what RT said about his missing wife BT and what Barry M. said about his missing wife Suzanne. According to dbdb, RT stated that BT might have been picked up and taken to Las Vegas, and..."on arrival the search and rescue crews destroyed any evidence of a potential crime scene." Similarly, BM offered that SM went for a bicycle ride...was then possibly carried away by an animal or person, and LE destroyed evidence around the area where SM's bicycle was found. Both men also requested that their wives be returned no questions asked...a rhetorical offer, imo. The strange aspects of their near identical comments is their hypothesis that their wives were taken a distance away from where they supposedly went missing, while also claiming that the area where their wives were thought to have been last is a potential crime scene that was muddled up investigators and search teams. Here are two links to all of dbdb11 insightful posts. https://www.websleuths.com/forums/members/dbdb11.248345/ https://www.websleuths.com/forums/search/85178618/
Also, here is the post where dbdb11 says RT said the area was a potential crime scene and search and rescue teams destroyed evidence.
POST BEGINS:
They parked the camper on the pull off, just speculating here of course, hid truck/RV key under a rock they both would be able to find quite easily, they crossed over Kelbaker road (with a camera?, a gallon of water, at least one beer in a travel mug or coozie?, Barb in either bikini top or possibly bra? Robbie carrying a pack of some kind?), once on the other side of the road they proceeded to walk (NOT HIKE) approx 2 miles (exactly 2.2 miles according to Robbie's correspondence with us) towards a hill that could be seen from the parking area just ahead of where they pulled off the road.

Once on this hill Barb decided to take a panorama photo of their surroundings (which I assume includes Robbie in the panorama. If it is a 360 photo as Rob initially suggested they likely brought a 360 camera, and Barb and Robbie should both be in this image). Robbie claims the 360/panorama photo Barb took from this hill includes cars in the parking lot below, potentially even license plate numbers? and was very upset police were not looking into the owners of these cars as potential suspects (and were instead suspecting him, and seemingly ignoring his statements on the day she went missing). I assume if the cars were clearly visible in the picture, surely Rob and Barb would have been plainly visible to anyone in a car in the parking lot below the hill as well.

As they were on the way back from the hill, towards their RV, there was a rock formation Robbie implies they were both interested in. He stopped to take a photo of this rock formation and "asked Barb to stay with me," but she went on ahead anyway. Sounds quite stubborn of her. Perhaps they had some kind of disagreement? In any case, he says she wanted to get back to the RV.

This is where Barb rounds a corner, we can assume she rounds a boulder outcrop that puts her out of Robbie's sight. Robbie has never specified how long he spent taking photos of this rock formation, but he claimed to us that police have photos of Barb on the walk, that day, and that police have photos of the rock formation as well. Robbie and Barb have no known social media accounts where they share photos of their adventures with friends/family.

As Robbie made his way back to the RV he did not have any concerns. The RV was less than 1/4 mile (1000 ft) away from where he last saw her, he has claimed, and was never concerned about how far ahead she could have gotten, between him and the RV. He made his way back to the RV and was not immediately concerned that he didn't see her there. He was hot, he has told us, and poured some water on a towel and put it on his head. After a few minutes of her not turning up he began to grow concerned. He did not immediately look for any signs of tire tracks, or signs of abduction/kidnapping. He proceeded to shout and wave his arms, as well as backtrack to a cave they both knew was in the area. His thinking was, perhaps she went there to get out of the sun (between when she left him and the few minutes it took him to get back to the RV from the rock formation).

According to public records he called the police around 3pm?, and according to Robbie they arrived two hours after he called? On arrival the search and rescue crews destroyed any evidence of a potential crime scene, according to Robbie. If this account is accurate, what did Robbie do in those two hours?

Robbie served in Vietnam, and also has years of experience visiting the Mojave desert, including familiarity with Kelbaker's immediate geological features, and, I would assume, a keen sense for his surroundings. He didn't think to look for signs of abduction, or a struggle? He didn't follow up with the cars parked in the parking lot just down the road (but did check in a cave???)? He didn't look for signs of a struggle around the RV but concludes she must have been abducted? That abduction is the ONLY logical conclusion?

I think we are missing some vital information here and would like to hear a much more detailed account of what Robbie did between taking photos of the rock formation, returning to the RV, searching the area for Barb, calling police, and search and rescue finally arriving. I think our timeline of events could do with clarification.

FOR REFERENCE:

Walking speed 1000 meters or 1 kilometer per 10 minutes ( m/min – km/min ), converted to foot per 10 minutes equals 3280.84 feet per 10 minutes ( ft/min ).

According to the above generalisation Robbie was approx 3 plus MINUTES away from the RV.
I would like to include some further speculation for everyone to consider. Robbie drove across state lines to the only S on a quiet road, the first stage of an otherwise undefined camping trip. He hasn't told any of us anymore about what this trip entailed, or what they were initially planning. They pulled off the road in a place with enough room for other cars to pull off as well. They began their walk in the Mojave around/ or not long after HIGH NOON, in RECORD HEAT. This all happened on a Friday, a weekday, when many others who might otherwise be hiking and exploring the desert area, would have more likely been at work. Regular hikers familiar with the area, and other locals have expressed it would be foolish and naive to wander into the Mojave for a casual walk at this time of day (unless of course your plans required not being seen by anyone else).

Attached Files:

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Screenshot_2019-07-31-18-31-38-980_com.android.browser.png
File size:
545.1 KB

Views:
165





* 
Screenshot_2019-07-31-18-32-25-450_com.android.browser.png
File size:
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Views:
170





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File size:
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Views:
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dbdb11, Jul 31, 2019 Report
#223 Like
Click to expand...
Odd is an understatement. MOO

Here is a link to @dbdb11's post for anyone who wants to view the attachments:

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4
 
deugirtni said:
My interpretation was same as yours. And another item that is difficult to forget, is that by RT's own admission, police believed he was showing deception on his lie detector test, and ever since he lawyered up after that, the case has gone nowhere it seems. Imo.
Click to expand...
To be clear, per RT's admission, we only know that police told him they found evidence of deception. We don't know what they actually believed.
 
NervousNellie said:
To be clear, per RT's admission, we only know that police told him they found evidence of deception. We don't know what they actually believed.
Click to expand...
They were pressure testing him.
Standard approach, but certainly not standard to an elderly gent whose life had turned upside down in an afternoon.

amateur opinion and speculation
 
rosesfromangels said:
They were pressure testing him.
Standard approach, but certainly not standard to an elderly gent whose life had turned upside down in an afternoon.

amateur opinion and speculation
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I’m not sure where you stand today on this case but I still don’t believe RT harmed his wife or caused her disappearance. IMO
 
Assuming that LE interviewed RT and Barry M with similar techniques, and since it appears that both men offered explanations for their wives disappearance, along with other concerns regarding the authorities professional ability to process what both men believed to be "a potential crime scene" where their wives allegedly went missing, it would stand to reason that both men were viewed by LE enforcement as being deceptive. Interestingly, according to John E. Reid & Associates, INC "1. Suspects who are probably innocent are an excellent source of information about how the crime could have been committed and who committed it. Because the person realizes that he is a suspect in the crime, he is highly motivated to talk about rumors, violations of policy, or unusual occurrences happening around the time of the offense. In addition, he will be quite open in discussing other suspect's possible motivations, propensities or changes in behavior since the investigation started. Much of the valuable investigative information we learn on a case comes from innocent people we interview -- not from records, documents or information provided by a fact giver. The innocent suspect who is familiar with other possible suspects, the crime scene, or company procedures is, by far, a much better source of information." JOHN E. REID & ASSOCIATES, INC.
I realize this example is describing what appears to be a white collar crime, however, it wouldn't surprise me if Reid's suspect analysis could apply to a missing persons investigation.
 
Last edited:
K9Enzo said:
Agreed.
I’m not sure where you stand today on this case but I still don’t believe RT harmed his wife or caused her disappearance. IMO
Click to expand...
I haven't seen or heard any evidence that points towards his guilt. Much of what other people seem to regard as suspicious seems quite normal or understandable to me. We have very little information and many assumptions are being made.
I think there's a good chance that Robbie and Barbara had a bit of a disagreement and their parting might have been slightly acrimonious , and he played that down at first, held back on it, hence the "deception". I can empathise with that. It doesn't need to have been anything serious.
I'm not naive, but I'm not so deeply cynical as to assume that the partner must have dunnit every time.
 
Regarding assessing and evaluating how a person of interest frames their responses to LE and volunteers information about a potential crime related investigation outside the scope of an official interview or interrogation session, there doesn't seem to be very much literature or research available. In the case of RT and Barry M, both men seem to be following a very similar psychological script...they appear to me to be placing themselves in a position of investigative and rational legal authority over what might have happened to wives to explain their disappearance.
 
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