Found Deceased CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #14

[Nikynoo]

Strange that she would keep walking after crossing the road back to motorhome.

I think she misjudged her route. IMO I think it quite likely that she took the 'wash' route and came out further down the road which disoriented her. There is a dip in the road there and she would not have been abe to see the RV or the turn out. Why didn't she retrace her steps? I guess we will never know. Could have been heat exhaustion or a medical episode, which IMO is more likely than foul play.

 

[Seattle1]

I'd like to know what personal effects of hers they found. Did they find her drink container? Was she in fact wearing a black bikini?

I don't know why I want to know that, exactly. I thought all along that it was likely she wanted to be inside the RV and, being unable to find the key, walked on down Hidden Hills, as that side of the road is a good place for a potty break (no cholla, just scrub). I think she was already in the throes of heat exhaustion and probably also annoyed.

Heat exhaustion can cause paradoxical behavior (a sense of energy and euphoria that can make people keep on going when they ought to be turn back) and of course it also causes confusion, so that getting lost is much easier than when in a normal state of mind.

That side of the road has no trails, but lots of trail-like sand in between bushes caused by water erosion. The search was mostly focused within 1 mile in each direction from the "crossroads" where RT told police he last saw Barb. It does sound like she took the right trail toward the RV, but then went further into the Hidden Hills Road area (dirt road). The searchers posted pictures of themselves and 1 dog searching on that side - near the dirt road, not out in the desert (which would have been a really large area to try and search). They did the grid search on the opposite side of the road, about 4 square miles by my calculation - so a large search.

She was someplace else...probably collapsed due to heat stroke. IMO.

Thanks, @10ofRods for details on the terrain of the search location.
What a horrible outcome for an experienced, desert couple out on a typical adventure. I'm also curious about the details -- whether or not the reported description of the missing person was accurate but I'm more interested in learning about the area where BT's remains recovered that we can understand how she was missed. No doubt this weighs heavy on the minds of many SAR members.

 

[Rural_PC]

Her nephew has said it was completely normal for them to go exploring in the desert. Perhaps they did have an argument, and she simply walked back to the camper. Do we have confirmation that she never entered the camper? Perhaps she got a drink, locked the camper and continued exploring east and had an accident?

 

[dmac55]

I had heat exhaustion some years ago when I moved to Arizona and didn't know the importance of drinking water all the time, no matter what
For me, it felt like profound nausea and dizziness
No sweating, feeling hot, or being thirsty

I could not tolerate standing up, sitting down, or the car moving
I felt the need to all of a sudden lay down and be absolutely still

A heat stroke is much much worse

My thoughts/experience about how far someone could walk if suffering from the heat

 

[Seattle1]

Her nephew has said it was completely normal for them to go exploring in the desert. Perhaps they did have an argument, and she simply walked back to the camper. Do we have confirmation that she never entered the camper? Perhaps she got a drink, locked the camper and continued exploring east and had an accident?

Did I miss a link about a disagreement/argument?
To my knowledge, RT was the only witness of when/where BT disappeared and I don't recall that he said anything more than he stopped to take a photo and BT walked ahead of him. He stated he expected to find her at the RV. When she was not there, he walked to check if BT was at some caves nearby that were familiar to them.

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, Bullhead City, hiking wearing bikini in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019

VI post dated July 18, 2019:

[..] they lost sight of each other for 5-10 minutes before she “vanished” and he went back to their rv to see if she had returned but it was still locked so that meant she hadn’t come back yet (they had put the key under a rock which they both knew the location of). so he went back to check a shaded cave that they had found together earlier thinking she may have been taking a break from the heat but she wasn’t there either. he still wasn’t worried at this point because.. i don’t remember why he said he wasn’t yet worried. maybe because they both knew the area? or this was a regular thing? idk not sure but he continued searching for her on his own. by around noon time it was getting terribly hot so he started getting worried and called 911. police arrived like 2 hours later and searched for her. robbie said throughout the day they had sniff dogs, horses, hundreds of people and even a helicopter (which unfortunately couldn’t use its infrared function because it was too hot out to get any useful readings) and nobody could find any trace of her. searched throughout the night too. nothing. she had just disappeared. robbie admits “it doesn’t make any sense” that she just wandered off and got lost and there’s no evidence.. which is why he suspects she may have been picked up in a car. also because from the spot where she went missing she had to cross a highway in order to get back to where their rv was parked. also apparently she took a 360 picture that morning from on top of a hill and the photo included a parking lot with some vehicles in it so the police are looking into their license plates/info. [..]

 

[Lilibet]

Her nephew has said it was completely normal for them to go exploring in the desert. Perhaps they did have an argument, and she simply walked back to the camper. Do we have confirmation that she never entered the camper? Perhaps she got a drink, locked the camper and continued exploring east and had an accident?

Her husband said the key (under a rock I think) was undisturbed, and it didn’t seem that she had gone into the fifth wheel.

We don’t know if they had an argument. All we know is that her husband said she walked ahead to use the RV (which I would take to mean that she needed to use the bathroom). I think we hypothesized that she couldn’t find the key and was upset and perhaps walked on to look for a private spot to relieve herself, but that’s just a theory.

 

[Cherwell]

Did I miss a link about a disagreement/argument?

No. I think you must have missed the word "Perhaps".

Perhaps they did have an argument, and she simply walked back to the camper.

 

[Seattle1]

May 1, 2019 --just a couple of months before BT was reported missing, human remains were located in Topock, a small town that lies between Bullhead City and Lake Havasu City in western Arizona. A person who was working in the area discovered the remains and called officials.
They were taken to the Mohave County Medical Examiner’s office for further investigation and DNA testing.

I just read that Mohave County officials identified the remains, and the autopsy report was complete on Feb 11, 2021.

The remains had been sent to the University of North Texas Center for Human Identification for examination in 2019. A profile was created in early November 2020, and on Dec. 15, 2020, they were positively identified as Nancy Hartz. Her family had reported her missing July 28, 2015!

How fortunate for all that BT was identified within weeks versus years. Sharing this story as an idea of how long an autopsy report and manner of death can take for a Mohave discovery.

On Feb. 11, 2021, the autopsy report ruled that Hartz died of gunshot wounds and her death was officially ruled as a homicide. MCSO says no arrest can be made in her murder because Carnochan had already died in prison.

Carnochan was the main suspect in the disappearance of Hartz, but police did not have sufficient evidence to connect him to her death until after her remains were found.

Carnochan is also the suspect in the disappearances of two additional women, Neva Jane Lindley and Verna Clayton. Their bodies have not been found.

Mohave County officials identify human remains as woman missing since 2015

Found Deceased - AZ - Nancy Hartz, 72, Kingman, June 2015

 

[RANCH]

Has LE released any statement or information that suggests Barbara was murdered?

 

[Seattle1]

Has LE released any statement or information that suggests Barbara was murdered?

No official word on whether or not a homicide -- the manner and cause of death have not been released.

 

[catch_22]

I'm new to this case, so I apologize in advance.

How far was the rv from the road she had to cross? I'm sure this has been mentioned many times, but I think that if she couldn't get in the rv for some reason, that she would turn around and go look for her husband. Maybe she did and she passed him because either he or she was off the trail?

Is this an exact quote from the husband? "We lost sight of each other for 5 to 10 minutes before she vanished?" If it is, it is at least an odd quote. I'm sure I'm not the first to point this out. How would he know when she vanished if she had been out of sight for 5 to 10 minutes?

Again, I don't even know if that is an exact quote. Maybe, in his mind, she "vanished" when he realized that he hadn't seen her in 5 or 10 minutes, and that was the point that he started looking for her?

JMO

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

I'm new to this case, so I apologize in advance.

How far was the rv from the road she had to cross? I'm sure this has been mentioned many times, but I think that if she couldn't get in the rv for some reason, that she would turn around and go look for her husband. Maybe she did and she passed him because either he or she was off the trail?

Is this an exact quote from the husband? "We lost sight of each other for 5 to 10 minutes before she vanished?" If it is, it is at least an odd quote. I'm sure I'm not the first to point this out. How would he know when she vanished if she had been out of sight for 5 to 10 minutes?

Again, I don't even know if that is an exact quote. Maybe, in his mind, she "vanished" when he realized that he hadn't seen her in 5 or 10 minutes, and that was the point that he started looking for her?

JMO

It was parked beside the highway

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

I think she misjudged her route. IMO I think it quite likely that she took the 'wash' route and came out further down the road which disoriented her. There is a dip in the road there and she would not have been abe to see the RV or the turn out. Why didn't she retrace her steps? I guess we will never know. Could have been heat exhaustion or a medical episode, which IMO is more likely than foul play.

The thing that bothers me the most is that they BOTH were experienced desert hikers so WHY would BT leave to go back on her own WITHOUT water. They both would know better.
The dog dropped at doggy daycare that morning also bothers me.
I’m waiting to see what was found with her. Wedding rings, beer can or cup, etc.

 

[Cherwell]

Why would the dog being boarded bother you?
They were going away for a few days into the desert at a time when the temperatures were very high. It makes perfect sense to me that the trip wouldn't suit a dog, especially a dog with a long thick coat. The dog would have had to stay in the RV most of the day, the ground would be hot enough in the daytime to burn the pads of its paws.
I don't think a responsible dog owner would take a dog on a trip like that.

 

[RANCH]

Why would the dog being boarded bother you?
They were going away for a few days into the desert at a time when the temperatures were very high. It makes perfect sense to me that the trip wouldn't suit a dog, especially a dog with a long thick coat. The dog would have had to stay in the RV most of the day, the ground would be hot enough in the daytime to burn the pads of its paws.
I don't think a responsible dog owner would take a dog on a trip like that.

Good post. The dogs don't bother me at all. My parents traveled in their RV's for many years and never once took their dogs with them. JMO

 

[Seattle1]

I'm new to this case, so I apologize in advance.

How far was the rv from the road she had to cross? I'm sure this has been mentioned many times, but I think that if she couldn't get in the rv for some reason, that she would turn around and go look for her husband. Maybe she did and she passed him because either he or she was off the trail?

Is this an exact quote from the husband? "We lost sight of each other for 5 to 10 minutes before she vanished?" If it is, it is at least an odd quote. I'm sure I'm not the first to point this out. How would he know when she vanished if she had been out of sight for 5 to 10 minutes?

Again, I don't even know if that is an exact quote. Maybe, in his mind, she "vanished" when he realized that he hadn't seen her in 5 or 10 minutes, and that was the point that he started looking for her?

JMO

Welcome to BT's thread @catch_22.

BT's remains were recovered more than 15 months after she was last seen by her husband, RT, near rock formations he stopped to photograph-- when BT reportedly walked ahead of him.

Yes, the quotes were by RT to media and verified family (see Thread #1).

Since RT was the only witness, there's nothing to dispute RT's quotes as to how quickly she vanished or when he reported her missing after searching for BT himself.

IMO, all of BT's accounts given to media and family supported RT's theory that BT was picked up very soon from the highway.

Unfortunately, soon after telling media that LE believed he was deceptive in his response to questions, BT stopped talking so we've had nothing more to go on from the only witness until BT's remains were recovered by hikers at a location reported as near Kelbaker and Hidden Hills Rds.

Since Kelbaker and Hidden Hills Rds were also reported as the area that BT allegedly vanished from, it seems that BT did not get very far from where she was last seen alive by BT.

At this time, I'd just like to learn what possibly prevented SAR from locating BT during their searches beginning July 12 to 22 as described below.

July 22nd - The investigation continues into the whereabouts of missing person Barbara Thomas

DATE/TIME: July 12, 2019 2:30 pm

INCIDENT: Missing Person

LOCATION: Kelbaker Road/Hidden Hills near I-40

VICTIM: Barbara Thomas, 69 years old, resident of Bullhead City, AZ described as 5'9, 130 lbs., Blonde hair, Green eyes
Last seen wearing a black bikini, a red baseball cap and tan hiking boots with black socks

SUMMARY:
UPDATE - Monday, July 22, 2019

The ongoing daily searches for Barbara Thomas in the Mohave National Preserve have been suspended. Additional searches will be conducted as any additional information is developed in the investigation.

Detectives from the Specialized Investigations Division have assumed the investigation as is standard department policy when a missing person has not been located.

The investigation is ongoing and anyone with information is asked to contact Detective Nicholas Clark, Specialized Investigations Division (909) 387-3589. Callers wishing to remain anonymous are urged to contact the We-Tip Hotline at 1-800-78-CRIME (27463) or www.wetip.com.

UPDATE #9
Sunday, July 21st, the search continued today for Barbara Thomas.
Search and Rescue members from throughout the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department were deployed into the field this morning just after sunrise. K9 units, members certified in cave searches, rope climbing and desert terrain ground searchers were utilized today.

The search has been suspended for the day due to extreme temperatures. No evidence of Barbara was located today.

UPDATE #8
Saturday, July 20th, the search continues this morning for Barbara Thomas.
Eighty (80) Search and Rescue members from throughout the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department were deployed into the field this morning just after sunrise. Off-road vehicles, K9 units, members certified in cave searches, rope climbing and desert terrain ground hikers are being utilized today. Aviation will be assisting throughout the search operation.

There has been no evidence of Barbara Thomas located on previous days. Temperatures are expected to reach over 100 degrees.

UPDATE #7
Friday, July 19th, the search continues this morning for Barbara Thomas. Search and Rescue members are utilizing off road vehicles, K9 units and hikers. The search resumed just after sunrise this morning. The search will include aerial support throughout the day.

There has been no evidence of Barbara Thomas located on previous days. Temperatures are expected to reach over 100 degrees.


UPDATE #6
Thursday, July 18th, the search continues for Barbara Thomas. Search and Rescue volunteers, a K9 unit, Sheriff's Aviation and personnel from the River Station are continuing to search the Mohave Desert in the are of Kelbaker/Hidden Hills near the 1-40. Search teams were deployed into the field at 5:00 am.

Temperatures are expected to reach over 100 degrees today.

UPDATE #5

Wednesday, July 17th, the search continues for Barbara Thomas. Search and Rescue volunteers, 3 K9 Units, Sheriff's Aviation and personnel from the River Station are continuing to search the Mohave Desert in the area of Kelbaker/Hidden Hills near the 1-40. Search efforts began this morning at sun up.

Temperatures are expected to reach over 100 degrees today.

UPDATE#4:
Tuesday, July 16th - the search continues for Barbara Thomas in the Mohave desert. Nearly 20 Search and Rescue volunteers, and deputies assigned to the River Station are continuing the search. Off road vehicles are being utilized to allow searchers to cover additional area.

There have been no sightings of her at this time. The temperatures are expected to exceed 100 degrees today.

UPDATE#3:
Monday, July 15th - the search continues for missing person Barbara Thomas in the Mohave desert. Barbara was last seen in the area of Kelbaker/Hidden Hills near the 1-40.

UPDATE #2:
The search is moving into the third day for Barbara Thomas in the Mohave desert. Barbara was last seen in the area of Kelbaker / Hidden Hills near the I-40. The search involves numerous Search & Rescue members, deputies, K9’s, Sheriff’s Aviation(helicopter) and Park Rangers.

There have been no sightings of her at this time. The temperatures today hovered around 104 degrees.

Updates will be issued as new information becomes available.
Anyone with information regarding Barbara's whereabouts is urged to contact the Colorado River Station at (760)326-9200 or Sheriff's Dispatch at (760)956-5001.
***************************************
UPDATE:
The search continues for Barbara Thomas in the Mohave desert approximately 20 miles north of the I-40 freeway east of Kelbaker Rd.
Numerous Search & Rescue members, deputies, K9’s, Sheriff’s Aviation(helicopter) and Park Rangers.

There have been no sightings of her at this time. The temperatures are above 100 degrees today.

Updates will be issued as new information becomes available.
Anyone with information regarding Barbara's whereabouts is urged to contact the Colorado River Station at (760)326-9200 or Sheriff's Dispatch at (760)956-5001.
***********************************

SUMMARY:
On July 12, 2019, at 2:30 p.m., Barbara and her husband Robert were hiking in the Mohave desert approximately 20 miles north of the I-40 freeway east of Kelbaker Rd. During the hike, Barbara and Robert got separated and she has not been seen since.
Barbara was last seen wearing a black bikini, a red baseball cap and tan hiking boots with black socks.

Barbara does not have any supplies or a cell phone.

An active search is underway with the assistance from Search & Rescue members, fire personnel, Park Rangers and Sheriff's Aviation.

Anyone with information regarding Barbara's whereabouts is urged to contact the Colorado River Station at (760)326-9200 or Sheriff's Dispatch at (760)956-5001.

https://local.nixle.com/alert/7427618/?desktop

JULY 15, 2019

 

[Lilibet]

At this time, I'd just like to learn what possibly prevented SAR from locating BT during their searches beginning July 12 to 22 as described below.

I’d like to know too. I expect SAR will be trying to figure this out. The only things I can think of is human error...thinking a section was thoroughly searched and recording it as searched when it wasn’t. Or just walking right by her body without seeing it for some reason. I’m not sure when and where dogs were used. Overlooking a body has happened before, but it’s very rare.

 

[LietKynes]

It'd be interesting to see the 360 photo that Barbara took that day.
Also, did they spend any time in the RV before the hike ?
It's so sad that she was so close, but not found during the initial search !
I don't think anyone picked her up from her walk, as it (her hiking path) wasn't near the highway; and even if they did grab her -- wouldn't Barbara be much farther away from where she was found ?
Imo.

 

[RANCH]

It'd be interesting to see the 360 photo that Barbara took that day.
Also, did they spend any time in the RV before the hike ?
It's so sad that she was so close, but not found during the initial search !
I don't think anyone picked her up from her walk, as it (her hiking path) wasn't near the highway; and even if they did grab her -- wouldn't Barbara be much farther away from where she was found ?
Imo.

I don't think Barbara was picked up by someone now but before her remains were found I thought that it was a possibility.

She was heading toward the RV which was parked next to the road. Someone driving by could have picked her up. JMO

 

[LietKynes]

I don't think Barbara was picked up by someone now but before her remains were found I thought that it was a possibility.

She was heading toward the RV which was parked next to the road. Someone driving by could have picked her up. JMO

Agreed.
And if she was taken by someone she'd be found far away, imo.
I just wish they'd found her during the initial search.