CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

[MsBetsy]

I was just thinking of Savannah Spurlock. I was seriously losing hope, but she WAS found! And yes, in a place that had been searched. Just so many factors can affect searches. Barbara CAN be found.

Yes, there are countless cases where bodies were missed by searchers and later found by hikers, someone riding an atv, or hunters, etc.
Holly Bobo was later found by a hunter in the woods right near her house where she disappeared. Imo

 

[chihuahua]

I could start linking cases, but it would really fill up this thread. There are so many. Here’s one just from scrolling briefly through popular missing person cases. Over 12 searches made, from November until his body discovered in March: Ronald Hughes - Wikipedia

Yes the disappearance of Manson's attorney.
Chi
Now I'm taking a lunch timeout
ETA I've always been fascinated by Joan Didion's account of going out to buy the dress Kasabian testified in. Sorry way OT

 

[chihuahua]

Yes, there are countless cases where bodies were missed by searchers and later found by hikers, someone riding an atv, or hunters, etc.
Holly Bobo was later found by a hunter in the woods right near her house where she disappeared. Imo

Oh my. I helped search for Holly.
Just beyond horrendously sad.
Chi

 

[oviedo]

Honestly, you can look at most Missing Persons cases where the body was later found and searchers will have missed them if they are found within a 5 mile radius from where they went missing - IMO. Of course, this would be a very interesting statistic to work on. JMO

 

[oviedo]

Oh my. I helped search for Holly.
Just beyond horrendously sad.
Chi

and I helped search for Caylee..... many times.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

What are some of the reasons for this? Changes in cover due to season or just time? Animal activity? Are there psychological factors, as dedicated and competent as searchers are - like looking but not "seeing" another vehicle while driving? I also remember this with Chandra Levy (although there was a lot going on in that case).

 

[chihuahua]

and I helped search for Caylee..... many times.

Hugs friend it hurts but here we still are.
Chi

 

[DancingMuse]

I was just thinking of Savannah Spurlock. I was seriously losing hope, but she WAS found! And yes, in a place that had been searched. Just so many factors can affect searches. Barbara CAN be found.

Great post, happyday.

Posters here are understandably interested in :

What are the statistics on finding a missing person’s body on the second search? (Paraphrasing this to mean the “second pass over the same area.”)​

I could not find any specific statistics, mainly because no one is keeping a database on the more basic numbers.

Here’s the link below, on what happens on PUBLIC LANDS. Every state does its own thing.

Perhaps someone on Websleuths could crunch available numbers and give us an estimate for our cases here. That would be a huge undertaking. But, Yo, no one shies away from doing “good works” on this amazing platform.

Excerpted from the article linked below:

......The Department of the Interior knows how many wolves and grizzly bears roam its wilds—can’t it keep track of visitors who disappear? But the government does not actively aggregate such statistics. The Department of Justice keeps a database, the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System, but reporting missing persons is voluntary in all but ten states, and law-enforcement and coroner participation is voluntary as well. So a lot of the missing are also missing from the database.​

That leaves the only estimates to civilians and conspiracy theorists. Aficionados of the vanished believe that at least 1,600 people, and perhaps many times that number, remain missing on public lands under circumstances that defy easy explanation.

Numbers aside, it matters tremendously where you happen to disappear. If you vanish in a municipality, the local police department is likely to look for you. The police can obtain assistance from the county sheriff or, in other cases, state police or university law enforcement. If foul play is suspected, your state’s bureau of investigation can decide to get involved. Atop that is the FBI. With the exception of the sheriff, however, these organizations don’t tend to go rifling through the woods unless your case turns into a criminal one.

But all those bets are off when you disappear in the wild. While big national parks like Yosemite operate almost as sovereign states, with their own crack search and rescue teams, go missing in most western states and, with the exception of New Mexico and Alaska, statutes that date back to the Old West stipulate that you’re now the responsibility of the county sheriff...........


https://www.outsideonline.com/2164446/leave-no-trace

eta: missing paren

 

[MassGuy]

I would be interested in examples of missing persons whose bodies were eventually found in an area that was previously searched. I am sure there are many, and no doubt some have threads on Websleuths. This site is a rich source of information about missing persons cases but I'm not sure how to search the site for such examples.

This happens all the time. Usually though, the search area is heavily wooded.

My problem here is that this is a relatively open area, one that lends itself to both ground and aerial searches.

You’re probably not going to walk right past her body, like you might in forested areas.

That’s why I don’t think she’s out there.

 

[PommyMommy]

I would be interested in examples of missing persons whose bodies were eventually found in an area that was previously searched. I am sure there are many, and no doubt some have threads on Websleuths. This site is a rich source of information about missing persons cases but I'm not sure how to search the site for such examples.

Christina Morris is a classic example. She was found in a field where LE and volunteers had searched multiple times.

Maddox Ritch was found in an area that had been searched on foot, and by ATV's, kayak teams and drones.

James McGrogan - SAR teams searched for five days and didn't find him. He was found about two weeks later by skiiers in an area (an ice fall) that was previously searched.

Kenny Woodd-Cahusac is another example. LE used a bloodhound but said a snowstorm hindered both the dog and officers. Kenny was found near his home in an area that was previously searched.

Dale Hunter was found in an area that was already searched using K9 teams and air support. He was found in a ravine by a private citizen who continued to search after LE's search was called off.

Jerika Binks, Rudy Rockett, etc. MOO

 

[Liwthe]

This happens all the time. Usually though, the search area is heavily wooded.

My problem here is that this is a relatively open area, one that lends itself to both ground and aerial searches.

You’re probably not going to walk right past her body, like you might in forested areas.

That’s why I don’t think she’s out there.

Now that is decidedly untrue. Just a cursory search I did showed me multiple famous cases of missing people in the desert that took either months or years to find, or were never located (just their items and vehicle). Listing them all is really going to clutter the thread.

ETA if we are considering the possibility she went missing, the desert is in fact the ideal place due to the heat exhaustion and other factors that make getting lost, wandering off, possible. The body being obscured by flora is just as probable looking at pictures from SAR.

 

[MassGuy]

Now that is decidedly untrue. Just a cursory search I did showed me multiple famous cases of missing people in the desert that took either months or years to find, or were never located (just their items and vehicle). Listing them all is really going to clutter the thread.

I know this area, I’ve been there.

Those cases involved vast areas, most of them with no solid starting point.

The terrain was different too.

Here we know where she supposedly last was, and it’s not hard to figure out a maximum distance she could have traveled, and cover that area thoroughly.

She would be hard to miss.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I know this area, I’ve been there.

Those cases involved vast areas, most of them with no solid starting point.

The terrain was different too.

Here we know where she supposedly last was, and it’s not hard to figure out a maximum distance she could have traveled, and cover that area thoroughly.

She would be hard to miss.

What's the wind like there? You would think a red hat would stick out.

 

[katydid23]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Using one's vehicle in a parking lot , as the last place known, is not at all the same thing that we have here, in this case.

Here we have a witness, supposedly, that can pinpoint where the missing person was last seen, which was only 1/4 mile from their trailer, on the main trail. And she was headed back to the trailer, not headed out to the vast desert area.


In the other cases, where no one was found, you have their car as a starting point, and then we are left with the entire vast desert area, with no pinpointing of where exactly they were last seen alive.

 

[MassGuy]

What's the wind like there? You would think a red hat would stick out.

It can get windy, and things can blow a great distance.

If she was out there, her hat could have traveled just about anywhere.

 

[CSIDreamer]

9

It can get windy, and things can blow a great distance.

If she was out there, her hat could have traveled just about anywhere.

I was wondering the chances of her hat being with/on her too and getting covered up by debris.

Flying off is definitely another consideration.

 

[LietKynes]

Using one's vehicle in a parking lot , as the last place known, is not at all the same thing that we have here, in this case.

Here we have a witness, supposedly, that can pinpoint where the missing person was last seen, which was only 1/4 mile from their trailer, on the main trail. And she was headed back to the trailer, not headed out to the vast desert area.


In the other cases, where no one was found, you have their car as a starting point, and then we are left with the entire vast desert area, with no pinpointing of where exactly they were last seen alive.

BBM
Ita.

"Supposedly".
We still do not know that she was even out there... just that she was seen alive on camera that morning.
She could be literally anywhere.
Which makes my hinky meter stay firmly raised.

It'd help to know that Barbara was spotted on camera at a nearby convenience store close to the location and what time.

Like grasping at straws.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

has not been confirmed that picture is from the day. imo it is not.

as for your other questions...

my guess: barbara may have been held in an area not far, maybe vegas, or maybe the exact opposite direction, from where she was abducted. they probably took her to some safehouse, where they may have given her a change of clothes. its probably hot and they barely feed her. but she is alive. her kidnappers may have been awaiting payment, after all i doubt they would have any personal grudge against barb. just money in it for them, but when payday comes... nothing.

just the man on the news saying he hopes they release her, somewhere she can make contact, and the man assures them he will not press charges... but she might have seen their faces, they think. 'wtf kind of backwards deal is that?!' they might shout at the screen, as they try to decide what theyre going to do with the old woman locked in the back room.

just my own speculations. a fictional narrative i made to fit the story told by the man who brought her to the middle of the desert where she disappeared without a trace. a man we all know she loved, a man who may very well be heart broken himself.

what did barbara know that made her upcoming trip unacceptable?

In reply to your question: "what did barbara know that made her upcoming trip unacceptable?"

I believe it would be something she recently learned about illegal activity or deceit on the part of someone she knew, with serious consequences.

Recently learned because she had a trip overseas to be with her ailing brother planned for the very next week that she would not miss out on for any reason of her own.

Keeping Barb and her loved ones in my thoughts, and feeling confident that her disappearance will be resolved very soon.

IMO

 

[MassGuy]

BBM
Ita.

"Supposedly".
We still do not know that she was even out there... just that she was seen alive on camera that morning.
She could be literally anywhere.
Which makes my hinky meter stay firmly raised.

It'd help to know that Barbara was spotted on camera at a nearby convenience store close to the location and what time.

Like grasping at straws.

Yes. Show me that she was ever in that area, and that would be a game changer.

Something right around the time he claims they arrived, even if it wasn’t in that exact location.

 

[CSIDreamer]

In reply to your question: "what did barbara know that made her upcoming trip unacceptable?"

I believe it would be something she recently learned about illegal activity or deceit on the part of someone she knew, with serious consequences.

Recently learned because she had a trip overseas to be with her ailing brother planned for the very next week that she would not miss out on for any reason of her own.

Keeping Barb's loved ones in my thoughts, and feeling confident that her disappearance will be resolved very soon.

IMO

Sad thing is, if she was in imminent danger, I doubt she knew it.