CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

[deugirtni]

I believe that if there was a photo available of BT while she was on her excursion that day, it would have been provided by LE and published and noted as being a photo taken just prior to her 'disappearance'. When I think about other cases I've followed where there has been a photo taken, it is noted. I believe the photo being published in *this* case is an old one and only being used because BT happens to be wearing the same type/color of clothing as what she is said to have been wearing at time of disappearance. Jmo.

 

[deugirtni]

Can someone please point me in the direction of where it was said about the key to the RV being hidden beneath a rock, and also BT's demeanor when dropping the dog off to the boarder, and also the neighbor's account of seeing BT that morning? This thread is too large and fast moving for me to catch everything. TIA!

 

[MassGuy]

I believe that if there was a photo available of BT while she was on her excursion that day, it would have been provided by LE and published and noted as being a photo taken just prior to her 'disappearance'. When I think about other cases I've followed where there has been a photo taken, it is noted. I believe the photo being published in *this* case is an old one and only being used because BT happens to be wearing the same type/color of clothing as what she is said to have been wearing at time of disappearance. Jmo.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you here.

“This is the last known photo of Barbara Thomas, taken minutes before she disappeared.”

And thinking about this, if the photo existed in the first place, and shows what it allegedly shows, then this would appear to be simply a case of a woman who got lost.

No reason for a polygraph, or to cast suspicion upon the husband.

Going that route, is a signal that law enforcement has its suspicions.

 

[deugirtni]

Can someone please point me in the direction of where it was said about the key to the RV being hidden beneath a rock, and also BT's demeanor when dropping the dog off to the boarder, and also the neighbor's account of seeing BT that morning? This thread is too large and fast moving for me to catch everything. TIA!

 

[k-mac]

I believe that if there was a photo available of BT while she was on her excursion that day, it would have been provided by LE and published and noted as being a photo taken just prior to her 'disappearance'. When I think about other cases I've followed where there has been a photo taken, it is noted. I believe the photo being published in *this* case is an old one and only being used because BT happens to be wearing the same type/color of clothing as what she is said to have been wearing at time of disappearance. Jmo.

our VI who knows her personally doubts the picture in the red cap is current.

iirc

 

[Kapua]

Can someone please point me in the direction of where it was said about the key to the RV being hidden beneath a rock, and also BT's demeanor when dropping the dog off to the boarder, and also the neighbor's account of seeing BT that morning? This thread is too large and fast moving for me to catch everything. TIA!

Post #272 on Page 14 of this thread.

 

[LAhiker]

Hypothetically speaking, he still could have scripted her disappearance. Hanging back taking pictures of rocks validates his story, the pics are there with metadata. She is on the road vulnerable and alone, poof shes gone. Also goes along with his "she was abducted and taken to Vegas" statement. He knows she won't be found in the area they hiked. Not accusing, just musing as to possibilities.

Wondering, would that car have to drive by the Kelso Depot. Are there cameras there? I have to back and refresh my memory. If a vehicle went back the other way do they pass by the Essex gas station?

I agree that even if there are photos showing that BT was there, that doesn't rule out foul play, whether on the part of RT or someone else. If there are photos of BT, assuming their metadata hasn't been manipulated, another crucial question is what time they were taken. If they were taken fairly early in the day, say, around 11am or 12 noon, that leaves a lot of unaccounted-for time before the 3:26 911 call.

I think RT told the media that he searched for an hour before calling authorities, so in that account he missed BT at around 2:30pm. If the photos were taken not long before then, then at least that part of his account holds up. I think he told BT's family that he missed BT at around noon. If the photos were taken before then, that would contradict what he told the media and leave a lot of unaccounted-for time. JMO

 

[deugirtni]

Yeah, I tend to agree with you here.

“This is the last known photo of Barbara Thomas, taken minutes before she disappeared.”

And thinking about this, if the photo existed in the first place, and shows what it allegedly shows, then this would appear to be simply a case of a woman who got lost.

No reason for a polygraph, or to cast suspicion upon the husband.

Going that route, is a signal that law enforcement has its suspicions.

Yes, and it only makes sense, since that photo would depict *exactly* what she looked like at the time, which is great to have for those who are keeping an eye out for her, or for someone who may have seen her. Even if the particular photo taken *that* day may have been of poorer quality, I think LE would still provide it for publishing, probably along with another clearer, older one. If that 'bikini photo' was taken a couple of years ago, BT may have changed a bit since then.

Just because RT could have snapped a photo of her that day, it still wouldn't prove he wasn't involved in her disappearance, however it would sure narrow down the timelines in which he had to do all that he would've had to have done to hide her between then and when he made the 911 call.

IF hubby was involved and something happened sometime that morning before they ever arrived at that place, he would then have to have taken care of 'the evidence', and then gone to the spot, taken a bunch of photos to prove the trip happened.. so it would sure be interesting to know all of the timestamps on all of the photos of the scenery RT took on that day. It would be interesting to know if there were only one flurry of photos, all taken starting at a certain time, with said time being not too long before she is said to have 'disappeared'.

 

[MassGuy]

Can someone please point me in the direction of where it was said about the key to the RV being hidden beneath a rock, and also BT's demeanor when dropping the dog off to the boarder, and also the neighbor's account of seeing BT that morning? This thread is too large and fast moving for me to catch everything. TIA!

Yes, and it only makes sense, since that photo would depict *exactly* what she looked like at the time, which is great to have for those who are keeping an eye out for her, or for someone who may have seen her. Even if the particular photo taken *that* day may have been of poorer quality, I think LE would still provide it for publishing, probably along with another clearer, older one. If that 'bikini photo' was taken a couple of years ago, BT may have changed a bit since then.

Just because RT could have snapped a photo of her that day, it still wouldn't prove he wasn't involved in her disappearance, however it would sure narrow down the timelines in which he had to do all that he would've had to have done to hide her between then and when he made the 911 call.

IF hubby was involved and something happened sometime that morning before they ever arrived at that place, he would then have to have taken care of 'the evidence', and then gone to the spot, taken a bunch of photos to prove the trip happened.. so it would sure be interesting to know all of the timestamps on all of the photos of the scenery RT took on that day. It would be interesting to know if there were only one flurry of photos, all taken starting at a certain time, with said time being not too long before she is said to have 'disappeared'.

Exactly. I’m convinced at this point, if there was a photo taken of Barb that day, we would have seen it.

It’s easier to find a missing person, if you know exactly what they look like, and what they are wearing.

And your comment about the time stamps, reminded me of a case in which a murderer filmed himself fishing, in order to set up an alibi.

It ended up cinching the case against him, as the sunlight revealed to NASA experts that he was not fishing when he said he was.

 

[deugirtni]

deugirtni said: ↑
Can someone please point me in the direction of where it was said about the key to the RV being hidden beneath a rock, and also BT's demeanor when dropping the dog off to the boarder, and also the neighbor's account of seeing BT that morning? This thread is too large and fast moving for me to catch everything. TIA!

Post #272 on Page 14 of this thread.

Sorry, I'm not seeing any of those things mentioned there?

 

[Kapua]

What RT told Inside Edition

:51 "I hollered her name and I waved my arms and I looked around the area and I saw that she wasn’t anywhere around. She didn't respond. then I got very panicky.”
AZ - AZ - Barbara Thomas, 69, Timeline, Media, Maps, *NO DISCUSSION*

How dbdb11's sister recalls what RT told Barb's brother:

@deugirtni Check out these links.

 

[deugirtni]

Exactly. I’m convinced at this point, if there was a photo taken of Barb that day, we would have seen it.

It’s easier to find a missing person, if you know exactly what they look like, and what they are wearing.

And your comment about the time stamps, reminded me of a case in which a murderer filmed himself fishing, in order to set up an alibi.

It ended up cinching the case against him, as the sunlight revealed to NASA experts that he was not fishing when he said he was.

Not to mention the camera data. If no photos taken that day until just before she is said to have 'disappeared', that likely sent up a red flag for LE right away.. not that it would be so strange in itself, but seems just way too convenient as an after-thought for alibi-making.

 

[Kapua]

@deugirtni

Post #544, page 28, thread 1 by dbdb11, our VI:

hmmm i don’t have the sharpest memory but i’ll try to recount as best as i can - robbie and said he needs to talk to daddy and that barbara’s missing. it was a long story that started at the beginning on friday morning and progressed chronologically throughout the day. the impression robbie gave me was that she was wearing a red cap, a bikini and carrying a travel cup with beer in it. they lost sight of each other for 5-10 minutes before she “vanished” and he went back to their rv to see if she had returned but it was still locked so that meant she hadn’t come back yet (they had put the key under a rock which they both knew the location of). so he went back to check a shaded cave that they had found together earlier thinking she may have been taking a break from the heat but she wasn’t there either. he still wasn’t worried at this point because.. i don’t remember why he said he wasn’t yet worried. maybe because they both knew the area? or this was a regular thing? idk not sure but he continued searching for her on his own. by around noon time it was getting terribly hot so he started getting worried and called 911. police arrived like 2 hours later and searched for her. robbie said throughout the day they had sniff dogs, horses, hundreds of people and even a helicopter (which unfortunately couldn’t use its infrared function because it was too hot out to get any useful readings) and nobody could find any trace of her. searched throughout the night too. nothing. she had just disappeared. robbie admits “it doesn’t make any sense” that she just wandered off and got lost and there’s no evidence.. which is why he suspects she may have been picked up in a car. also because from the spot where she went missing she had to cross a highway in order to get back to where their rv was parked. also apparently she took a 360 picture that morning from on top of a hill and the photo included a parking lot with some vehicles in it so the police are looking into their license plates/info.

robbie said that he just wants barbara back and will press no charges against the person who abducted her so long as they return her. the call was delivered in a measured tone but he broke down a bit at this point, was tough to hear ..abc reached out? idk if it was abc but some mainstream news outlet and i definitely heard nancy grace mentioned. robbie’s done some interviews as he wants to get the word out. but he hasn’t seen or read any of the released news and comments. it’s too much

he said he keeps returning to the spot where he lost her and overturning rocks and searching and searching hoping to find something. he was there the day he called us although i think he said he shouldn’t really go back there as protocol says he’s the first suspect. he was even held for 5hrs in a cop car on the first day. it’s been nonstop and nobody is sleeping. robbie said he had held off on calling daddy to tell him the bad news because it was such devastating news and he was hoping she would turn up.. but he couldn’t wait any longer. he also said it’s difficult to call into china and said his calls rarely go through so if we want to ask any questions or talk more we should call him.
txt msg from my sister. wish i.asked.for this.earlier...

 

[deugirtni]

The couple pulled over to do a short hike to see some rock formations, as far as I understand it.. the little hike was approx 2 miles apparently.. assuming one mile out, and one mile back = two miles.. this was on their way to some camping trip they were taking, even though she was scheduled to fly to HK days later.

So I'm just curious about this hiding-the-key-under-the-rock-thing (which I don't know where that came from, but I have seen mention of it in the thread) - why on earth, on such a short little stint, taken as an aside while traveling to a camping destination, knowing it would be just a short hike, WHY would the key have been hidden under a rock?? Surely on such a short little hike, the two wouldn't have become separated THAT much that they would have to consider such a thing? I could see if they planned an all-day hike or something, or if they each wanted to go separate ways to look at different scenery.. but this was one mile out and one mile back, both apparently going to see the same rock formations.

How long would it realistically take a leisurely walk for two experienced older people to walk that mile out and back?

Funny how it is the little added details that are presumably meant to add detail to a narrative to make it more believable, can end up becoming the thing that alerts LE that something more may be afoot here? imo.

 

[k-mac]

Yes, and it only makes sense, since that photo would depict *exactly* what she looked like at the time, which is great to have for those who are keeping an eye out for her, or for someone who may have seen her. Even if the particular photo taken *that* day may have been of poorer quality, I think LE would still provide it for publishing, probably along with another clearer, older one. If that 'bikini photo' was taken a couple of years ago, BT may have changed a bit since then.

Just because RT could have snapped a photo of her that day, it still wouldn't prove he wasn't involved in her disappearance, however it would sure narrow down the timelines in which he had to do all that he would've had to have done to hide her between then and when he made the 911 call.

IF hubby was involved and something happened sometime that morning before they ever arrived at that place, he would then have to have taken care of 'the evidence', and then gone to the spot, taken a bunch of photos to prove the trip happened.. so it would sure be interesting to know all of the timestamps on all of the photos of the scenery RT took on that day. It would be interesting to know if there were only one flurry of photos, all taken starting at a certain time, with said time being not too long before she is said to have 'disappeared'.

yes great points

 

[gsleuth]

1) BT wandered off course, farther than anyone would expect and happened across an animal, mine shaft, cave or some feature from which she was unable to escape or BT succumbed to natural cause at a distance.

2) BT was abducted along the path between the rock formation(s) and the turnout.

3) BT disappeared and is remaining out of sight/quiet on purpose.

4) RT. Enough said for this item.

For which do you vote?

It is likely LE has been attempting to dig up every possible detail regarding time line, location and potential motive(s) but... silence silence silence.

The silence says there is a lot going on with details IMO

 

[gsleuth]

BBM:

It's a huge discrepancy.

And not for one moment do I think it's b/c he was converting the time she went missing into HK time.
It wouldn't make any sense for him to do that.

JMO.

Exactly

 

[k-mac]

The couple pulled over to do a short hike to see some rock formations, as far as I understand it.. the little hike was approx 2 miles apparently.. assuming one mile out, and one mile back = two miles.. this was on their way to some camping trip they were taking, even though she was scheduled to fly to HK days later.

So I'm just curious about this hiding-the-key-under-the-rock-thing (which I don't know where that came from, but I have seen mention of it in the thread) - why on earth, on such a short little stint, taken as an aside while traveling to a camping destination, knowing it would be just a short hike, WHY would the key have been hidden under a rock?? Surely on such a short little hike, the two wouldn't have become separated THAT much that they would have to consider such a thing? I could see if they planned an all-day hike or something, or if they each wanted to go separate ways to look at different scenery.. but this was one mile out and one mile back, both apparently going to see the same rock formations.

How long would it realistically take a leisurely walk for two experienced older people to walk that mile out and back?

Funny how it is the little added details that are presumably meant to add detail to a narrative to make it more believable, can end up becoming the thing that alerts LE that something more may be afoot here? imo.

yes its odd the 'key under the rock.'
on its own. its fine. plenty of people will attest they do it.

but RT carries all the supplies ie water and outside communication(such a gentleman) ...barb just cruises along free as a bird swigging her hot beer cooking like a lobster in her bikini but they have a contingency plan in case they get separated....how to get in the van...... but barb doesn't carry her own safety equipment ...also wouldn't one think in case they get separated also?????

moo

 

[Micheline]

Per dbdb11's sister, RT said he called about noon. Per the dispatch log, the call came in at 3:26 p.m.

Dispatch Call Log – San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department
7/12/2019 3:26:24 PM CR CR191930018 CRR1900230 MISPER NAT 936** HIDDEN HILLS RD, KEL

If there was a crime here, a pre-planned one as has been suggested by some, then RT was free to mention any time he wanted that would make sense in his made up story.
He could preplan: lost sight of het at noon, searched for one hour, called 911 at 1, period. No discrepancies.

But since he lost sight of her around noon, let's say 12.30, went searching, maybe even sat down every now and then since is is 72 yo and it being extremely hot, then went searching once more for an hour, it could have easily be 2.30 by then.

Also please I am going to bold this, we know RT said to LE and family to have searched for her for so long on his own. The "think she was kidnapped because of her attire" was not his first thought, he searched for her, there were daily searches, and only when she was not found he came to the conclusion (or maybe just holds out hope) someone may have taken her. Which is logical.

 

[mtnstream]

RSABBM

A person walking comfortably but briskly will walk around 3 mph in my experience.

That means one mile in 20 minutes, or a half mile in ten minutes.

No speeding bullet necessary.

To be clear, my own theory is leaning more and more toward her not having been there that day at all. But I do think we should be as realistic as possible when thinking about the various bits of the story as given.

Question: if the lady was walking in front of her husband, he stayed behind for 5-10 mins, if she was walking casually, she may have moved about a 1/4 of a mile. How busy is that road? If any vehicle drove by during that time, surely he would have heard it? Sound travels well, on a sunny day, in desert areas.