Found Deceased CA - Blaze Bernstein, 19, Lake Forest, 2 Jan 2018 #7 *Arrest*

[Deleted member 158085]

Just a personal note on the Eagle Scout thing. I found out what a huge honor adults surrounding the scouts feel this accomplishment is a few years ago when someone I know was striving for this and obtained it. The kid himself never really talked about the scouts much. And while he seemed very happy with the attention and cash it brought him in the end (it's typical for graduation type of parties to be thrown, and there is a ceremony), once it was over, his involvement with the scouts and with community service abruptly ended. He was not truly a community service minded person at heart. In short, I think a lot of parents are more into their kids completing these goals and the idea that their kids truly have the ideals of an eagle scout than some of the kids are.

The scouts can be like any other extracurricular activity kids are involved in. Sometimes it's the parents who are more interested than the kids, especially if a parent had been a scout. There can be pressure from the parent, and once the eagle scout thing is accomplished, I think some breathe a sigh of relief that it is over.

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[ElementalLaura]

I'm as liberal as they come and I have concerns about the vetting of the ProPublica article.

My first and biggest concern is the fact that the photos which Jake Hanrahan tweeted were not included in the ProPublica article. I've had ProPublica in my RSS feed for years and read most of their reports; they include photos all the time. There is a reason that those photos weren't included in the article and one wonders if it is because they did not meet the organization's standards.

Unnamed sources are fine. However I was surprised that there wasn't more included to support their claims; because that's one thing I've always loved about ProPublica-- they always share their source material.

Like I said, I've been following ProPublica for years, they've earned my trust. My concerns are because of my familiarity with the organization's work and their practice of sharing source material (especially stuff referenced with their reports).

Thank you for sharing your concerns. My hope would be that we could discuss concerns without having to label our political perspectives up front. That said, in the interests of full disclosure, I am a registered independent and find positives and negatives with both conservative and liberal perspectives.

In my post you quoted, I was asking sequences about statements s/t/he/y made concerning the article. The statements touched upon very different topics than the ones that you raise.

I get ProPublica articles in a reader format that sometimes doesn’t pick up photos. In this case, if the photos didn’t meet their journalistic standards, they would not reference them, period. In this case, they met their standards of vetting the photos AND the information provided by the sources in the article.

IMO, they did not run the photos because they have a policy against publishing materials that could be considered propaganda. The photos are third party photos and not from an independent third party source that can be credited. That does not mean they were not thoroughly vetted. Yes, I know other media outlets publish SM photos on a regular basis. Different media outlets have different publication standards.

All of this is MOO. I am not a journalist, but have professionally interacted with many journalists, including ProPublica journalists, on issues completely removed from the topics being discussed here.

 

[Gardenista]

Elliot Rodger was obsessed with Nazis and Hitler and became a poster boy for atom Waffen and other groups. They don't know if he was part of an organized group but his death note manifesto was very racist and sexist. It was two years before Atom Waffen started that he died. His words:

“How could an inferior, ugly black boy be able to get a white girl and not me? I am beautiful, and I am half white myself,” Rodger wrote. “I am descended from British aristocracy. He is descended from slaves.”

Here is the article that is the source of the other articles:

https://www.splcenter.org/20180205/alt-right-killing-people

By the way the guy that put up flyers at Penn and other places has been outed, fired, and kicked out of his flat. I don't think you can be arrested for it though. I read about it yesterday but can't find the link.

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None of that surprises me from the alt-left. Check out everything that has been exposed in the past few months about TYT, not to mention the alt-left guy who tried to murder a bunch of people at baseball practice, Antifa violence, the people in Chicago who tortured the special needs kid, etc... Lots of hate filled people in the US -- on both sides

 

[animlzrule]

Just a personal note on the Eagle Scout thing. I found out what a huge honor adults surrounding the scouts feel this accomplishment is a few years ago when someone I know was striving for this and obtained it. The kid himself never really talked about the scouts much. And while he seemed very happy with the attention and cash it brought him in the end (it's typical for graduation type of parties to be thrown, and there is a ceremony), once it was over, his involvement with the scouts and with community service abruptly ended. He was not truly a community service minded person at heart. In short, I think a lot of parents are more into their kids completing these goals and the idea that their kids truly have the ideals of an eagle scout than some of the kids are.

The scouts can be like any other extracurricular activity kids are involved in. Sometimes it's the parents who are more interested than the kids, especially if a parent had been a scout. There can be pressure from the parent, and once the eagle scout thing is accomplished, I think some breathe a sigh of relief that it is over.

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Agree 100%, this is what I have been reflecting on every time the Eagle Scout thing comes up. I know 2 young men (early 20s) who are Eagle Scouts. One of them absolutely never would have attained this status if not for the intense efforts of his mother. The Eagle Scout status was most definitely earned by her; he was apathetic at best. I don't know about the other one as I wasn't around during the years during which he would have been working towards this "goal", however, I can say unequivocally that neither of these young men lives out or displays the attributes of an Eagle Scout which were delineated further back in the thread. All of this is to say, whether or not SW is/was and Eagle Scout has little to say about his true character. Eagle Scout status doesn't mean much one way or the other any more. I think it was a more meaningful status for bygone generations.

 

[animlzrule]

Elliot Rodger was obsessed with Nazis and Hitler and became a poster boy for atom Waffen and other groups. They don't know if he was part of an organized group but his death note manifesto was very racist and sexist. It was two years before Atom Waffen started that he died. His words:

“How could an inferior, ugly black boy be able to get a white girl and not me? I am beautiful, and I am half white myself,” Rodger wrote. “I am descended from British aristocracy. He is descended from slaves.”

Here is the article that is the source of the other articles:

https://www.splcenter.org/20180205/alt-right-killing-people

By the way the guy that put up flyers at Penn and other places has been outed, fired, and kicked out of his flat. I don't think you can be arrested for it though. I read about it yesterday but can't find the link.

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Yeah, these desperate attempts to deflect and re-write the narrative of these alt-right terrorists are laughably transparent. And the false equivalencies being proposed about the efforts of terrorists, vs. the groups actively trying to thwart their efforts in this country are clumsily obvious. No amount of whataboutism or "both sides" is ever going to make the Alt-right into a legitimate movement, whose efforts are working toward the good of our nation. They are, and will always be, destructive, criminal, hateful and despicable. Their opposition can be proud at the end of the day.

 

[Milenalee]

I'm as liberal as they come and I have concerns about the vetting of the ProPublica article.

My first and biggest concern is the fact that the photos which Jake Hanrahan tweeted were not included in the ProPublica article. I've had ProPublica in my RSS feed for years and read most of their reports; they include photos all the time. There is a reason that those photos weren't included in the article and one wonders if it is because they did not meet the organization's standards.

Unnamed sources are fine. However I was surprised that there wasn't more included to support their claims; because that's one thing I've always loved about ProPublica-- they always share their source material.

Like I said, I've been following ProPublica for years, they've earned my trust. My concerns are because of my familiarity with the organization's work and their practice of sharing source material (especially stuff referenced with their reports).

Propublica is really top ranked. https://www.propublica.org/awards
They only do investigative journalism. The freelance investigative reporter who supplied most of the material for that article also has a good reputation. (Jake Hanrahan). He supplied the photos from sources he must protect. They may have a policy not to publish photos from anonymous sources. They may try to limit the types of photos they publish that could be seen as publicity for the hate groups. I doubt any newspaper will publish the atom Waffen recruitment video he posted on Twitter (for journalistic reasons only he said).


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[Deleted member 158085]

None of that surprises me from the alt-left. Check out everything that has been exposed in the past few months about TYT, not to mention the alt-left guy who tried to murder a bunch of people at baseball practice, Antifa violence, the people in Chicago who tortured the special needs kid, etc... Lots of hate filled people in the US -- on both sides

I don't know where you are getting alt left. He was alt right.

https://www.splcenter.org/20180205/alt-right-killing-people

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/elliot-rodger-spate-alt-right-killers-article-1.3802386



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[Gardenista]

Yeah, these desperate attempts to deflect and re-write the narrative of these alt-right terrorists are laughably transparent. And the false equivalencies being proposed about the efforts of terrorists, vs. the groups actively trying to thwart their efforts in this country are clumsily obvious. No amount of whataboutism or "both sides" is ever going to make the Alt-right into a legitimate movement, whose efforts are working toward the good of our nation. They are, and will always be, destructive, criminal, hateful and despicable. Their opposition can be proud at the end of the day.

Hate from any group will never win as long as we continue to expose them and prosecute criminals. Way more good people than haters:heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat:

 

[sequences]

[FONT=&amp]
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[FONT=&amp]You left out these referenced sources:[/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]BBM. The significance being that one source is someone who was at the camp with SW and saw him participate in training.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]MOO: Reasonable people are able to distinguish between a Nazi salute and three people in training simultaneously raising their hands to ask a question. IMO, the photo clearly show the former, not the latter.[/FONT]
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[/FONT][FONT=&amp]To clarify, are you stating that you believe the photo shows three people raising their hands to ask a question?[/FONT]
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[/FONT][FONT=&amp]IMO, the news media is reporting on SW's involvement in a hate group based on multiple confirmed sources who are friends of SW's, participated with SW in Atomwaffen training and are members of Atomwaffen. In many high-profile cases, investigators -- including investigative reporters -- need to utilize information provided by sources who wish to remain anonymous or confidential. When that is the case, responsible investigators and reporters confirm the information provided through multiple sources and secondary evidence. For a famous example of a confidential source, please see the Wiki entry on Deep Throat (Watergate).[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Why remain anonymous? In some cases, the informant(s) may be guilty of criminal behavior. An informant may not wish for unsavory affiliations, such as to an extremist hate group that has been linked to multiple murders by members, to be made public. An informant may have essential information of criminal behavior by powerful people and/or organizations and thus may be a retaliation target if his/her identity is known. There are many legitimate reasons why informants retain anonymity, and why law enforcement and the news media recognize and protect confidential informants.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Finally, the news media is not an arm of the prosecution or the defense. Whether SW's demonstrated affiliation with hate groups played a role in the murder of BB is most likely (IMO) of strong interest to LE and the prosecution, so sourced reporting in the news media is unlikely to be a "waste of money." It's part of LE's separate investigation. [/FONT]
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[/FONT][FONT=&amp]To clarify, are you stating that LE investigating SW's affiliation with hate groups is a "waste of money?"[/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]What does this have to do with news media reporting or LE's investigation into SW's murder of BB? [/FONT]
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[/FONT][FONT=&amp]To clarify, are you stating that the only account you will accept regarding SW's affiliation with hate groups will be statements by his defense attorney and by SW?[/FONT]

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Hi sequences, bringing this forward because you may have missed it earlier in the thread.

Woodward & Bernstein personally met, seen, spoke, recognized, and knew Deep Throats identity as Associate Director of the FBI provided Deep Throat direct ties to all those involved.

The reporters "sources" 3 unknowns claiming 2 online relationship, friend-acquaintenance, & 1 out of state former hate group member. The reporters can "verify" the identity of the sources. Questionable based on reporters locations & sources locations if a face to face meeting occurred. Easier to claim false info without a face to face meeting. The reporters cannot verify the sources direct physical access to SW. The sources are placing SW in the sources locations, online-Texas or out of place.

The reporters place Attowaffen in California using SW's name. "T[FONT=&quot]hat person also said that Woodward helped organize a number of Atomwaffen members in California." [/FONT]

The "hate training camp" location. LE would have to figure out the travel to the location to place SW at the location during specified time range. Defense attorneys questioning SW & SW's family can easily determine SW's locations during the specified time range & photos.

IMO, the article is filled with hearsay, gossip, & has a high probability of using a crime to gain persons publicity, as well as hate group publicity.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I think all murders are hate crimes if it wasn’t hate why would someone willfully take the life of another human being. [emoji17]

 

[ElementalLaura]

Woodward & Bernstein personally met, seen, spoke, recognized, and knew Deep Throats identity as Associate Director of the FBI provided Deep Throat direct ties to all those involved.

It was a different world in the 1970s. Felt would have likely loved snapchat had it been an option.

As you note, the reporters and one-to-two (depending on sources) editors at the Washington Post knew Deep Throat's identity. They did not reveal it in their reporting. They both vetted information he provided and used him to vet information from other sources.

The reporters "sources" 3 unknowns claiming 2 online relationship, friend-acquaintenance, & 1 out of state former hate group member. The reporters can "verify" the identity of the sources. Questionable based on reporters locations & sources locations if a face to face meeting occurred. Easier to claim false info without a face to face meeting. The reporters cannot verify the sources direct physical access to SW. The sources are placing SW in the sources locations, online-Texas or out of place.

Why the "quotes?" The report clearly identifies how the three sources noted in the article were affiliated with SW (note that I inserted the [SW] references in place of SW's name and/or pronouns that would otherwise be unclear references):

Two of the three people who described [SW]’s affiliations are friends of his; the other is a former member of Atomwaffen Division.

You are stating there was an online relationship only. The article states they are friends. It references photos and other information shared by SW with friends via social media. That doesn't mean 1) their friendship was based solely on online interactions and they never met in person, and/or 2) the friendship didn't exist if they did not meet in person. I'm not sure what you mean in the last couple of sentences that I quoted? I may address it below.

The reporters place Attowaffen in California using SW's name. "T[FONT=&amp]hat person also said that Woodward helped organize a number of Atomwaffen members in California." [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]

[/FONT]The third source is a former member of Atomwaffen and, per ProPublica, "participated in the Texas training and watched [SW] shoot. That person also said that [SW] helped organize a number of Atomwaffen members in California." I would say the reverse, that the source places SW with Atomwaffen, then further discusses his commitment to Atomwaffen (at least at that time).

The "hate training camp" location. LE would have to figure out the travel to the location to place SW at the location during specified time range. Defense attorneys questioning SW & SW's family can easily determine SW's locations during the specified time range & photos.

I would think that this would be part of LE's investigative process regardless of media reports about SW. If there were to be a hypoethetical media report (or tip to LE or family member) saying he traveled to Italy to meet the Pope during this same time, LE would need to confirm that. What does LE's investigation have to do with the ProPublica reporting?

IMO, the article is filled with hearsay, gossip, <snipped>

The significance of the source who participated in the training with SW is that what he sees / experiences first-hand is not hearsay, legally speaking.

<continued from previous quote>...& has a high probability of using a crime to gain persons publicity, as well as hate group publicity.

Who is trying to gain publicity with the report? The reporters? SW? The anonymous sources?

Are you saying the reporters are trying to publicize Atomwaffen (I'm assuming that's the hate group)? What is their motivation for doing so?

Please forgive me if I'm being a bit thick. I'd rather ask for clarification than assume I know.

 

[Satchie]

As a Canadian looking at this thread, I'm a bit mystified by the political aspect.

A news source has published some information alleging something , they've got insider sources for that info, but it hasn't yet been confirmed by official sources. It happens all the time, it's what journalists do. I take it for what it is, but one source is never enough, you have to wait for other sources of info to confirm or clarify.

That SW acted solo to murder his former classmate, rather than bombed something or targetted a public figure, says to me it's more a personal /psychological crime than political, though various ideas could have contributed to his personal turmoil.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

As a Canadian looking at this thread, I'm a bit mystified by the political aspect.

A news source has published some information alleging something , they've got insider sources for that info, but it hasn't yet been confirmed by official sources. It happens all the time, it's what journalists do. I take it for what it is, but one source is never enough, you have to wait for other sources of info to confirm or clarify.

That SW acted solo to murder his former classmate, rather than bombed something or targetted a public figure, says to me it's more a personal /psychological crime than political, though various ideas could have contributed to his personal turmoil.

Trust me. As Americans, many of us are mystified by the constant assault on the media as of late. You are right. The media does what it's always done. But no amount of proof as to reliability of a publication seems to be enough these days. It gets tiresome and drags threads off track on a regular basis.

It seems it's become a way to prevent serious discussion of information uncovered by the media, by diverting attention to the media itself.

Notice how little we've discussed SW since this began again? Because it works. I'm part of the problem, of course, because I have to fact check all of the claims of media bias.

*Sighs, and will probably do the same thing all over again in the near future.

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[Steelslady]

Trust me. As Americans, many of us are mystified by the constant assault on the media as of late. You are right. The media does what it's always done. But no amount of proof as to reliability of a publication seems to be enough these days. It gets tiresome and drags threads off track on a regular basis.

It seems it's become a way to prevent serious discussion of information uncovered by the media, by diverting attention to the media itself.

Notice how little we've discussed SW since this began again? Because it works. I'm part of the problem, of course, because I have to fact check all of the claims of media bias.

*Sighs, and will probably do the same thing all over again in the near future.

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It goes back to finger pointing. I agree with Satchie, I feel this was personal with Sam, not political or religious. Yet, Sam belonging to hate groups appears to be the focus because it just couldn't be that Sam had a mental illness or a personal grudge that caused him to kill Blaze with so much anger and hatred. Blaze had mentioned on a social media page that he was outing SW- who knows, maybe that festered in his head over all that time, and instead of rationally either arguing with him and telling him that it hurt and upset him, to please remove the comment or their friendship would be over, Sam might have just lost it on the night of their get together. We haven't heard Sam's side yet (not that I honestly care to *shudder*) but this may not be a hate crime in terms of differences of beliefs, but a hate crime because of anger and hurt that Sam might not have been able to talk about with no one else.

Then again, it could just be a hate crime, period. He might darn well be proud of himself for taking one out of the equation for some kind of initiation into that group of sickos. Whatever the cause, Sam, and only Sam right now (and maybe his parents, brother, priest and lawyer) know what truly happened. We, on the other hand, may never know the truthful answer.

 

[Gooddeeds]

The reports we have from his overall withdrawn behavior while in school make it difficult to imagine that SW was an Eagle Scout by personal interest or 100% choice.

Here is a published list on EAGLE SCOUTS. INSERT SW.


“The Boy Scouts of America's highest rank is the Eagle Scout. This prestigious award is widely recognized throughout the country even by those who aren't familiar with the requirements. The fact that the rank is based on accomplishing a set of national standards rather than some arbitrary qualifications makes being an Eagle Scout worthwhile.

Becoming an Eagle Scout takes perseverance and work. Boy Scouts have to earn all of the ranks in order starting with Tenderfoot (soon to be Scout).


Scoutmaster CG has compiled a list of the activities that the Boy Scout will complete on his journey to Eagle Scout.

"He has earned 21 Merit Badges.
He has served a minimum of 16 months in a leadership position.
He’s been camping for a bare minimum of 24 nights.
He’s proposed, planned and carried out an Eagle service project.
He’s had a minimum of seven Scoutmaster conferences and five boards of review."


That's a pretty tall order for teenage boys. In fact, only about 7 percent of all Boy Scouts earned their Eagle rank in 2013. Since it takes so much work, why do boys do it? Some are mature enough to understand the impact that having the award will have on their lives. Others are encouraged by their parents and Scoutmasters.

Benefits to Earning the Eagle Scout Rank
The ***biggest benefit***that a young man gets when he earns his Eagle Scout rank is that he is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

He embodies the Scout Law, and that makes him a man of strong character. These traits will help him in everything he does, from husband and father to employee to community leader.

Eagle Scouts value perseverance, discipline, motivation, leadership, accountability, and achievement. And those lead to tangible benefits.

“Boy Scouts don't earn their Eagle Scout rank for accolades and benefits. They do it because they are living the Scout Law every day.”


THIS IS A TALL ORDER...

 

[Steelslady]

The reports we have from his overall withdrawn behavior while in school make it difficult to imagine that SW was an Eagle Scout by personal interest or 100% choice.

Here is a published list on EAGLE SCOUTS. INSERT SW.


&#8220;The Boy Scouts of America's highest rank is the Eagle Scout. This prestigious award is widely recognized throughout the country even by those who aren't familiar with the requirements. The fact that the rank is based on accomplishing a set of national standards rather than some arbitrary qualifications makes being an Eagle Scout worthwhile.

Becoming an Eagle Scout takes perseverance and work. Boy Scouts have to earn all of the ranks in order starting with Tenderfoot (soon to be Scout).


Scoutmaster CG has compiled a list of the activities that the Boy Scout will complete on his journey to Eagle Scout.

"He has earned 21 Merit Badges.
He has served a minimum of 16 months in a leadership position.
He&#8217;s been camping for a bare minimum of 24 nights.
He&#8217;s proposed, planned and carried out an Eagle service project.
He&#8217;s had a minimum of seven Scoutmaster conferences and five boards of review."


That's a pretty tall order for teenage boys. In fact, only about 7 percent of all Boy Scouts earned their Eagle rank in 2013. Since it takes so much work, why do boys do it? Some are mature enough to understand the impact that having the award will have on their lives. Others are encouraged by their parents and Scoutmasters.

Benefits to Earning the Eagle Scout Rank
The ***biggest benefit***that a young man gets when he earns his Eagle Scout rank is that he is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

He embodies the Scout Law, and that makes him a man of strong character. These traits will help him in everything he does, from husband and father to employee to community leader.

Eagle Scouts value perseverance, discipline, motivation, leadership, accountability, and achievement. And those lead to tangible benefits.

&#8220;Boy Scouts don't earn their Eagle Scout rank for accolades and benefits. They do it because they are living the Scout Law every day.&#8221;


THIS IS A TALL ORDER...

Yes, it is similar to Girl Scouts Silver Award- I was a Girl Scout leader years ago. It is very hard to achieve, and it's done during your Junior year in high school. There are a lot of prerequisites before you can even consider going for this award, and if you meet all of them, you have a full year's worth of work ahead of you that is hard to do being in sports, dance, etc. You have to do a community project all by yourself, from start to finish- you can enlist help, such as more volunteers to help you clean up several grave yards and put flowers on their graves or flags for veterans. I knew of one Eagle Scout that fixed the stands at several baseball fields in our town that needed to be welded- they came out very nice and were much more secure walking up and down them after he was finished. One Girl Scout did a garden and donated the vegetables she grew to homeless shelters, and those projects alone are very time consuming. Some are worked on daily, such as the young lady growing the vegetables.

There are some very dedicated kids that truly do love Scouts and do their awards, but many just stay in their troops for 11th and 12th grade without doing the Silver Awards/Eagle Scouts. Or, many kids quit by the end of their Sophomore year.

 

[ElementalLaura]

It goes back to finger pointing. I agree with Satchie, I feel this was personal with Sam, not political or religious. Yet, Sam belonging to hate groups appears to be the focus because it just couldn't be that Sam had a mental illness or a personal grudge that caused him to kill Blaze with so much anger and hatred. Blaze had mentioned on a social media page that he was outing SW- who knows, maybe that festered in his head over all that time, and instead of rationally either arguing with him and telling him that it hurt and upset him, to please remove the comment or their friendship would be over, Sam might have just lost it on the night of their get together. We haven't heard Sam's side yet (not that I honestly care to *shudder*) but this may not be a hate crime in terms of differences of beliefs, but a hate crime because of anger and hurt that Sam might not have been able to talk about with no one else.

Then again, it could just be a hate crime, period. He might darn well be proud of himself for taking one out of the equation for some kind of initiation into that group of sickos. Whatever the cause, Sam, and only Sam right now (and maybe his parents, brother, priest and lawyer) know what truly happened. We, on the other hand, may never know the truthful answer.

Do you think that the media has evidence that SW has been treated for a mental illness and isn't reporting it?

Your speculation might be correct, although I thought that Blaze had texted friends vs posting publicly about SW. But your speculation is just speculation, IMO, and can be weighed against the speculation of everyone else posting here.

I consider how SW has spent his time and who he has spent it with to be information relevant to the investigation. Per TOS, that includes media reports, and we have sourced media report from a highly reputable outlet that demonstrates that SW has been very recently involved in Atomwaffen and, perhaps, other hate groups. I used to think that this was based on their personal interactions, but I'm back on the fence. IMO, he may have been radicalized by the people he was choosing to spend time with, and that may have played a part in Blaze's murder.

Similarly, if SW had been spending time at a Muslim camp that involved weapons training, I would consider that relevant as well. IMO.

 

[Steelslady]

I also wanted to add to the above posts about the Girl Scout Silver Award/Eagle Scout award- think of it this way- many kids who play say, soccer- devote their whole year to it- not only do they play on the high school team, but they will play in an indoor league over the winter, to go summer camps for soccer in the summer, and even play rec teams during the summer months as well, to keep their skills sharp. Same with kids that play baseball/softball. hockey, track and field during the spring while doing indoor track and field during the winter months and they 5K races offseason to stay in shape, they have summer camps and indoor/outdoor rec leagues for these sports, too.

Same with dancers that are in dance companies- they do it all year long, competing, and take dance classes even in the summer months.

Same with theater and music/band kids.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

It goes back to finger pointing. I agree with Satchie, I feel this was personal with Sam, not political or religious. Yet, Sam belonging to hate groups appears to be the focus because it just couldn't be that Sam had a mental illness or a personal grudge that caused him to kill Blaze with so much anger and hatred. Blaze had mentioned on a social media page that he was outing SW- who knows, maybe that festered in his head over all that time, and instead of rationally either arguing with him and telling him that it hurt and upset him, to please remove the comment or their friendship would be over, Sam might have just lost it on the night of their get together. We haven't heard Sam's side yet (not that I honestly care to *shudder*) but this may not be a hate crime in terms of differences of beliefs, but a hate crime because of anger and hurt that Sam might not have been able to talk about with no one else.

Then again, it could just be a hate crime, period. He might darn well be proud of himself for taking one out of the equation for some kind of initiation into that group of sickos. Whatever the cause, Sam, and only Sam right now (and maybe his parents, brother, priest and lawyer) know what truly happened. We, on the other hand, may never know the truthful answer.

IIRC, Blaze did not out him on SM through a comment for all to see. He mentioned him hitting on him to two friends via private message. The end part of what he said sounded to me and others like a joke - that Oops, he had told everyone. But at this point we haven't seen (or heard of) any evidence that he actually told anyone other than those two friends.

I do think his involvement with a hate group is important to the discussion, even though it probably wasn't completely what drove him to do this. I don't see how training with a hate group that advocates violence towards other groups is not relevant, whether it's because Blaze was gay and Jewish, or because SW was in reality gay and this led him to even more self hatred.

I think it could be both a hate crime that was also fueled by passion and self-loathing. I think he had twice or thrice the motive.

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[ElementalLaura]

Please know, I am not doubting the media about his camps with a bunch of Nazi nutbags. As you saw my explanation above- I just wondered if it is possible he has Aspergers or a possible mental illness- neither of which are confirmed nor denied by media outlets. He had one female teacher who said she felt he was misunderstood because of his learning disabilities- this is why I leaned the Aspergers direction just because of things I have witnessed myself with children and teens with Aspergers. Sadly, many kids avoid hanging out with Aspergers children because of inappropriate behaviors or things they say out loud that they shouldn't, because some mean jerk kids teach them bad behaviors and bad words, and encourage them to do this while these poor kids get laughed at or shunned by their peers, and they don't understand why. Asperger kids pick up facial cues/behavior from others- they see people laugh or smile, they think they did something good. They see someone show disgust, they don't understand why they're not happy with them. I have found that many children and teens with Aspergers really do want to please people, and a smile or a laugh to them, is praise.

Just my random thoughts, but I wanted to clarify that I am not doubting the media about the Nazi camps or groups- it makes me sick to know we have these fools in our society, and it makes me ill that he was part of their trashy group. Poor Blaze, may he rest in peace.

Sometimes a young person will commit a crime or be a crime victim and you'll have friends who will come forward, even if it's to express bewilderment. The only friends who have spoken out about SW do so anonymously, it seems, whether to media or online. I can see how something like what you're saying could be true, and, if so, isolating. Then I think his parents would have had advantages in terms of him being more likely to be diagnosed (attending more competitive schools, presumably having good access to health care), but, as was discussed upthread, that doesn't always mean that he would be diagnosed or that a diagnosis would be accepted.