GUILTY CA - Boat fire near Santa Cruz Island; 34 missing, Sept 2019 *captain charged*

[Betty P]

I just watched the CNN upload "Dive boat owner gives insight into deadly California fire" in YouTube.

The owner confirmed that the boat had fire extinguishers and even a fire hose. He also confirmed there was a separate hatch, and that the bunk room is never locked.

As In the Details (pretty sure) said earlier, this must have been one of those "flash" type fires or even something like an explosion. Perhaps some sort of gas or fumes that leaked and accumulated before being sparked.

In one of the photos of the interior of the bunk area, you can clearly see a sign that says "Emergency Exit" with an arrow and what looked like instructions. The probably gave everyone instructions on how to use it. They passed so many Coast Guard inspections previously, it sounds like just a tragic situation.

That said, I never would have gone on an overnight cruise in those kinds of sleeping/boating accommodations. That's just me. Chicken - yes.

I feel so badly for the crew members who escaped. They must be very traumatized to have witnessed it so closely and been unable to do anything to rescue their friends and customers. One person interviewed on the boat that rescued them said that some of them kept swimming back to the flaming wreckage to see if they could rescue anyone. I hope they get some counseling. They'll be facing some terrible survivor's guilt and will need it.

Prayers and condolences for the survivors, family and friends. Terrible tragedy.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown said that DNA samples would be required from the family of presumed victims to identify them.

When asked why DNA material would be necessary, Sheriff Brown told reporters it was an "inordinately hot fire and the bodies do exhibit signs of extreme thermal damage".

According to preliminary reports, Sheriff Brown said, a 17-year-old and several people in their 60s were probably aboard the recreational diving vessel when it caught fire.
Police begin identifying US boat fire victims

 

[Lilibet]

I am thinking that a token escape hatch going anywhere is not sufficient for 34(+) plus people to escape in an emergency situation. Rather there needs to be a true alternative exit.

I agree that an escape hatch is not adequate for the number of people sleeping there to escape in a catastrophic situation. The hatch would be useful if water was coming in slowly enough, but not when seconds count. I’m not sure, given the space constraints of a boat of this size, that a true alternative exit (such as stairs) is possible...or would have saved lives in this fire. Some activities are risky in nature and cannot be made perfectly safe under all conditions, even by the most conscientious promoters. This fire was not predictable. I’m sure divers will be reassessing their personal risk tolerance after this. I guess that’s something all of us should do in crowded spaces with few exits.

 

[Betty P]

Yes, good interview. He made the point that the audio we're hearing on the news is only the Coast Guard guy's half of the conversation and he was talking to only 1 of the 5 crew members who escaped.

NTSB is investigating, so the public will have the answers and recommendations. It takes a while (can be almost a year) for the final report. I always feel good about NTSB.

 

[Betty P]

I agree that an escape hatch is not adequate for the number of people sleeping there to escape in a catastrophic situation. The hatch would be useful if water was coming in slowly enough, but not when seconds count. I’m not sure, given the space constraints of a boat of this size, that a true alternative exit (such as stairs) is possible...or would have saved lives in this fire. Some activities are risky in nature and cannot be made perfectly safe under all conditions, even by the most conscientious promoters. This fire was not predictable. I’m sure divers will be reassessing their personal risk tolerance after this. I guess that’s something all of us should do in crowded spaces with few exits.

I was in NYC a while back and did a lot of walking around the subway stations and Penn Station. At one point I realized I was probably a good mile or so from the place where I came in, like being in a big, winding underground cavern with thousands of people. I put it out of my mind immediately, but it makes you think....

(We midwesterners are used to wide open spaces, haha)

 

[PommyMommy]

Patch on Twitter
The Coast Guard suspended its search and rescue efforts for survivors after a scuba diving boat caught fire and sank near Santa Cruz Island. It is presumed 34 people perished in the boat fire. https://patch.com/california/los-angeles/25-dead-9-missing-after-boat-catches-fire-santa-cruz-island …

11:41 AM - 3 Sep 2019

 

[Inthedetails]

Patch on Twitter
The Coast Guard suspended its search and rescue efforts for survivors after a scuba diving boat caught fire and sank near Santa Cruz Island. It is presumed 34 people perished in the boat fire. https://patch.com/california/los-angeles/25-dead-9-missing-after-boat-catches-fire-santa-cruz-island …

11:41 AM - 3 Sep 2019

It's a small comfort, but it is a comfort at least that it is apparent that the passengers perished and there is no chance of finding survivors now. That does make it easier to accept - rather than the cases where there still is a tiny glimmer of hope but the search is called off.

RIP, divers.

jmo

 

[Lilibet]

I was in NYC a while back and did a lot of walking around the subway stations and Penn Station. At one point I realized I was probably a good mile or so from the place where I came in, like being in a big, winding underground cavern with thousands of people. I put it out of my mind immediately, but it makes you think....

(We midwesterners are used to wide open spaces, haha)

I hear you! We stayed in NJ last October and traveled on the PATH train into the City numerous times. It always gets really quiet when it’s going under the Hudson River...sort of like a collective holding of breath, hoping not to get trapped.

 

[Betty P]

Yes, under the Hudson River on the train. Or standing underground at the 911 museum while the guides are showing you the underground wall with the Hudson River on the other side. Engineers are amazing.

I hear you! We stayed in NJ last October and traveled on the PATH train into the City numerous times. It always gets really quiet when it’s going under the Hudson River...sort of like a collective holding of breath, hoping not to get trapped.

 

[PommyMommy]

World News Tonight on Twitter (Video)
NEW: Aerial footage shows dive teams off the coast of Santa Cruz Island where the 75-foot dive boat "Conception" caught fire and sank, with authorities already recovering 20 bodies and searching for more than a dozen others; five crew members escaped. https://abcn.ws/2NTpMqt
12:11 PM - 3 Sep 2019

City of Santa Cruz on Twitter
The City joins the nation in mourning the tragic fire that destroyed the dive boat Conception. The horrific incident is being felt deeply by our community. We are in disbelief and our hearts go out to the families of all of those who are waiting for news on their loved ones.
12:13 PM - 3 Sep 2019

 

[PommyMommy]

20 Bodies Recovered From Santa Cruz Island Boat Fire, 14 More Presumed Dead

A man places flowers at a memorial wall near the Truth Aquatics moorings where the boat that burned and sank off the Santa Cruz islands early in the morning, was based in Santa Barbara, Calif., on Sept., 2, 2019. (Getty Images)

[...]

“The one crew member who was not rescued appears to have been asleep in the sleeping area below with the passengers,” Santa Barbara Sheriff Bill Brown said at a news conference Tuesday morning.

[...]

Efforts will be made to stabilize the boat so divers can enter it, Brown explained. A half-mile search area will also be established based on currents and the debris field.

“Our hope is that we will be able to penetrate the wreckage today, ” Brown said.

Because the bodies were so badly burned, DNA profiles will be conducted to positively identify them.

“The bodies do exhibit signs of extreme thermal damage,” Brown said.

[...]

Authorities have so far made contact with the families of 30 of the 34 victims.


This photo shows the burned out charter dive boat “Conception” just before it sank off Santa Cruz Island, near the coast of Ventura County. Sept. 2, 2019. (Credit: Ventura County Fire Department)

[...]

“As of 9:40 a.m. this morning, Coast Guard has suspended search efforts pending further development…We have suspended the search efforts due to no additional individuals having been witnessed entering the water,” Rochester said.

Everyone who was below deck in the sleeping quarters is believed to have died, likely trapped by the flames.

“There was a stairwell to get down the main entryway, up and down, and there was an escape hatch, and it would appear that both of those were blocked by fire,” Brown said.

[...]

“There’s no indication at this point in the investigation that there was an explosion that preceded this fire,” Brown said.

The ship had three decks. The lower deck had the sleeping area, the middle deck had the galley and salon, and the top deck had the bridge and the crew’s quarters.

“So it would be perfectly normal for the crew to be on that third deck,” Brown said. “That was their assigned location to sleep.”

[...]

“There are no locked doors in accommodation spaces aboard these vessels, its open berthing,” Rochester said Tuesday. “The only privacy that you have, and I’m sure that you’ve seen because it’s on the vessel’s website, are curtains, that’s it.”

[...]

 

[Kubirai]

Santa Cruz Students And Parents Among The Victims Of Boat Fire

This article mentions replacing a "heat detector" in the galley and fixing a leaky fire hose, a few years ago.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The owner of the vessel "Conception" talked exclusively Tuesday morning with Spectrum News 1 about a deadly fire on his boat Monday off the Southern California coast.

Below is more from my interview with Fritzler.

Brunell: "What do you want the public to know?"

Fritzler: "I want people to know that there [are] two entrances into the bunking area: a main entrance and an emergency escape hatch. I want people to know that the area, the salon that people enter into the boat to access the area, there were no doors. It's a wide open doorway and no doors. There were no locked doors anywhere ... We did lose a crewman that was below deck, stationed down below decks with passengers, perished as well as best as we know ... That was the only reason that any of the crews survived is they were on the upper deck and the flames reached up there and they had to make a large leap off the boat to escape the boat ... I want them to know that a couple of the crewmen swam to the stern of the boat, that could not access any of the fire hoses because they were engulfed."

Brunell: "I understand that people also think that the mayday calls were made from outside of the boat. Were they made on the dinghy or were they made in the wheelhouse?"

Fritzler: "They were made in the wheelhouse. He made two calls. The second call where you can hear him say, "I can't breathe." That was the second call. At that point he had to jump off the boat. The other crewmen were already off the boat. The captain was the last to leave the boat crying to Radio Coast Guard."

Brunell: "What do you think about the speculations and the people out there who think the crew bailed on the passengers?"

Fritzler: "There is no way. They did everything in their power to help, but the flames just spread. That's the investigation. Nobody understands why this fire spread like it did ... The investigation has to continue, but you know, we're all so surprised. We also have to remember this boat's been in operation since 1981. It's taken thousands upon thousands of people out over that period of time with no fire incidents whatsoever."

Brunell: "Is it surprising to you that so many people were not able to get out? I mean, can a fire spread that quickly on a boat that there would be no time for anyone to leave that bunk area?"

Fritzler: "Yes to both. I am utterly surprised, and the only thing that I can possibly conceive is that people suffocated quickly. The smoke, well I guess it was billowing."

Brunell: "The training that goes into preparing people on a boat for the event of a fire. I mean, how trained are people, are your crew members, to deal with an explosion or a rapidly moving fire?

Fritzler: "They're all well-trained. They're all mariners. They're all trained, and you know, unfortunately we didn't have access to any of the firefighting equipment."
"I'm Numb": Boat Owner on Deadly Fire Near Santa Cruz Island

 

[Cryptic]

The hatch would be useful if water was coming in slowly enough, but not when seconds count. I’m not sure, given the space constraints of a boat of this size, that a true alternative exit (such as stairs) is possible...or would have saved lives in this fire.

Fixed stairs are probably possible, though it may involve reducing the number of bunks. Collapsible stairs that are erected by pulling on cords that lead to a hatch or hatches large enough to accommodate multiple people simultaneously would also be an option. I think either would have saved lives.

Some activities are risky in nature and cannot be made perfectly safe under all conditions, even by the most conscientious promoters. This fire was not predictable. I’m sure divers will be reassessing their personal risk tolerance after this. I guess that’s something all of us should do in crowded spaces with few exits.

I agree that some activities being inherently risky as I recently injured myself messing around on a dirt bike. I have only myself to blame.

That aside, requiring that boats capable of accepting over a certain number of commercial charter passengers have a genuinely viable alternative exit as opposed to a token alternative exit does not sound unreasonable.

Boats under a certain passenger size, or operated only by a professional crew, or that are used only by the owner and non commercial guests could be exempt such a regulation as part of the valid "known risk / personal decision" concept that you refer to.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The owner of the vessel "Conception" talked exclusively Tuesday morning with Spectrum News 1 about a deadly fire on his boat Monday off the Southern California coast.

Below is more from my interview with Fritzler.

Brunell: "What do you want the public to know?"

Fritzler: "I want people to know that there [are] two entrances into the bunking area: a main entrance and an emergency escape hatch. I want people to know that the area, the salon that people enter into the boat to access the area, there were no doors. It's a wide open doorway and no doors. There were no locked doors anywhere ... We did lose a crewman that was below deck, stationed down below decks with passengers, perished as well as best as we know ... That was the only reason that any of the crews survived is they were on the upper deck and the flames reached up there and they had to make a large leap off the boat to escape the boat ... I want them to know that a couple of the crewmen swam to the stern of the boat, that could not access any of the fire hoses because they were engulfed."

Brunell: "I understand that people also think that the mayday calls were made from outside of the boat. Were they made on the dinghy or were they made in the wheelhouse?"

Fritzler: "They were made in the wheelhouse. He made two calls. The second call where you can hear him say, "I can't breathe." That was the second call. At that point he had to jump off the boat. The other crewmen were already off the boat. The captain was the last to leave the boat crying to Radio Coast Guard."

Brunell: "What do you think about the speculations and the people out there who think the crew bailed on the passengers?"

Fritzler: "There is no way. They did everything in their power to help, but the flames just spread. That's the investigation. Nobody understands why this fire spread like it did ... The investigation has to continue, but you know, we're all so surprised. We also have to remember this boat's been in operation since 1981. It's taken thousands upon thousands of people out over that period of time with no fire incidents whatsoever."

Brunell: "Is it surprising to you that so many people were not able to get out? I mean, can a fire spread that quickly on a boat that there would be no time for anyone to leave that bunk area?"

Fritzler: "Yes to both. I am utterly surprised, and the only thing that I can possibly conceive is that people suffocated quickly. The smoke, well I guess it was billowing."

Brunell: "The training that goes into preparing people on a boat for the event of a fire. I mean, how trained are people, are your crew members, to deal with an explosion or a rapidly moving fire?

Fritzler: "They're all well-trained. They're all mariners. They're all trained, and you know, unfortunately we didn't have access to any of the firefighting equipment."
"I'm Numb": Boat Owner on Deadly Fire Near Santa Cruz Island

Although a tragic tragic tragic event, I am so pleased to see that people are not blaming the crew that escaped, if they have the facts.

So many cases we follow, (limo case e.g.) we see obviously from the very beginning there is some negligence, but I don't see any here at all.

And yes, something may come out in the investigation that something was done wrong, but this crew and this company does not seem like one like the limousine company from New York, that did not care and keep up with stuff. This just not does not tell me on the face of it that there was such.

I think they cared and if it is deemed something other than an accident, it will be devastating to all.

From what I'm reading, the owners, the captain, and the crew that has survived is very above board as to addressing the concerns of the community at large, not only the diver community.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Coast Guard Calls Off Its Search for Victims of a Deadly Labor Day Boat Fire

 

[Keane]

A couple who are friends with my fiancee perished in the fire.
She's known them for 20 years and is heartbroken.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

A relative says five people from one Northern California family are missing and presumed dead after the scuba diving boat they were on burned near a Southern California island.

Susana Rosas posted on social media Tuesday that her three daughters, their father and stepmother were on board the Conception when it caught fire before dawn Monday morning.
The Latest: Relative: 5 members of same family on boat

 

[kaen]

A couple who are friends with my fiancee perished in the fire.
She's known them for 20 years and is heartbroken.

I am so sorry for the loss of your fiancee's friends. Absolutely tragic and devastating.

 

[kaen]

A relative says five people from one Northern California family are missing and presumed dead after the scuba diving boat they were on burned near a Southern California island.

Susana Rosas posted on social media Tuesday that her three daughters, their father and stepmother were on board the Conception when it caught fire before dawn Monday morning.
The Latest: Relative: 5 members of same family on boat

I can't even imagine the loss of my three children. My heart breaks for this mom and extended family.