GUILTY CA - Boat fire near Santa Cruz Island; 34 missing, Sept 2019 *captain charged*

[drama_farmer]

I've snipped the following from the nfpa.org website (National Fire Prevention Association-- a helpful source for fire related info/research.) This article speaks about a house fire, in particular, but I believe it can also be applied to an enclosed structure like a boat. IMO

The killing fumes
Most fire deaths are not caused by burns, but by smoke inhalation. Often smoke incapacitates so quickly that people are overcome and can’t make it to an otherwise accessible exit. The synthetic materials commonplace in today’s homes produce especially dangerous substances. As a fire grows inside a building, it will often consume most of the available oxygen, slowing the burning process. This “incomplete combustion” results in toxic gases.

Smoke is made of components that can each be lethal in its own way:

particles: Unburned, partially burned, and completely burned substances can be so small they penetrate the respiratory system’s protective filters, and lodge in the lungs. Some are actively toxic; others are irritating to the eyes and digestive system.

vapors: Foglike droplets of liquid can poison if inhaled or absorbed through the skin.

toxic gases: The most common, carbon monoxide (CO), can be deadly, even in small quantities, as it replaced oxygen in the bloodstream. Hydrogen cyanide results from the burning of plastics, such as PVC pipe, and interferes with cellular respiration. Phosgene is formed when household products, such as vinyl materials, are burned. At low levels, phosgene can cause itchy eyes and a sore throat; at higher levels it can cause pulmonary edema and death.

In addition to producing smoke, fire can incapacitate or kill by reducing oxygen levels, either by consuming the oxygen, or by displacing it with other gases. Heat is also a respiratory hazard, as superheated gases burn the respiratory tract. When the air is hot enough, one breath can kill.

NFPA - Reporter's Guide: The consequences of fire

 

[Betty P]

Based on some of the news coverage, it seems that NTSB investigator Jennifer Homendy was "taken aback" by the escape hatch while touring one of the other Truth Aquatics vessels.

Here is a FoxNews interview where she discusses the escape hatch:
NTSB member Jennifer Homendy on investigation into deadly California dive boat fire

I am also linking the LA Times article where they actually quote Ms. Homenday as saying she was "taken aback", but you may not be able to read it without a subscription. (I read it yesterday, but have now used up my monthly allotment of free articles.)

IMO, I believe that there will be changes made to the regulations that may shake up the industry if none of the existing vessels are grandfathered in. Imagine the reaction of other NTSB officials, used to investigating airplane crashes, who examine the escape hatch as Ms. Homendy did. It is obvious that 33 people would not have been able to get out of that hatch in a timely manner if the other exit was blocked. I know that tragedies such as this are very rare, but I don't think I would take that risk after what happened to the Conception's occupants.

Here's a quote from your link, speaking about looking at The Vision, the other boat that is similar to the Conception. Should we assume approval of regulations for design and safety of these kinds of boats doesn't fall under NTSB jurisdiction? They'll likely be making some recommendations.

Homendy said she and the investigators turned the lights off to see what it would have been like for the passengers trapped on the Conception. Getting to the emergency hatch was difficult, she said, adding that they couldn’t find the light switches in the dark.

“You have to climb up a ladder and across the top bunk and then push a wooden door up,” she said. “It was a tight space. We couldn’t turn the light on.”

...

After descending a set of stairs into the bunk room, one fire extinguisher at the bottom was blocked by a trash can, which would not be up to Coast Guard standards, she said. At the other end, there’s a hatch on the ceiling, she said.

Survival-factor specialists on the NTSB team will ultimately assess the path to the emergency hatch, she stressed.

 

[firebird]

Re the regulation discussion, my feeling is that this was a group of risk takers. They were scuba divers -- and not little hotel dive scuba divers, or even day trip scuba divers -- but days long, in extremely close and not posh quarters, scuba divers. Not only that, but they dove in the Pacific (not the clear water in Mexico or elsewhere) and in a location that is well known for more than its share of Great Whites. The divers here will know that even just breathing with scuba gear in a pool is a bridge too far for a lot of people, much less what this group was doing. They were adventurers and I doubt that any of them would be in favor of more regulation because of the freak accident they experienced. jmo

 

[distracted]

Re the regulation discussion, my feeling is that this was a group of risk takers. They were scuba divers -- and not little hotel dive scuba divers, or even day trip scuba divers -- but days long, in extremely close and not posh quarters, scuba divers. Not only that, but they dove in the Pacific (not the clear water in Mexico or elsewhere) and in a location that is well known for more than its share of Great Whites. The divers here will know that even just breathing with scuba gear in a pool is a bridge too far for a lot of people, much less what this group was doing. They were adventurers and I doubt that any of them would be in favor of more regulation because of the freak accident they experienced. jmo

I completely agree.

There have been a few people who have spoken out this week on Fox about their experiences with Truth Aquatics, the owners, their safety record, and Conception in particular. They all expressed devastation but also an understanding of the risks involved when diving on a live-aboard.

IMO, because there has never been a fire like this on a diving boat, the status quo has been sufficient. I am sure that changes will be made, however, to attempt to prevent this from happening again. Unless the construction of these vessels change, though, I'm not sure how much it can be improved. And do they put older boats out of commission that cannot meet new regulations? The answers are so very complex.

About a night watchman on duty that night - the group had taken a night dive that evening so they would have had less time to go through their nightly routine than normal. By 2:35am, there would have been about 4 hours to sleep before daybreak. The last crew member awake checked to make sure everything was off and that the cooking area was cold to the touch. And then 40 freaking minutes later he heard a noise that sounded like someone fell, went to investigate, and found that the boat was engulfed in flames.

IMO, this was a perfect storm. I'm not convinced that a night watchman would have been able to do anything more than what was done. The noise was loud enough to wake him and he responded immediately so being awake would not have changed a thing if he was on the top deck or below where everyone was bunking. And it all happened during a 40-minute span when everyone was asleep. It's just so very sad for everyone involved.

ETA: To clarify, I am not sure that the last person awake was the same person who heard the noise and discovered the fire.

 

[al66pine]

NTSB Powers? Recommendations?

Here's a quote from your link, speaking about looking at The Vision, the other boat that is similar to the Conception. Should we assume approval of regulations for design and safety of these kinds of boats doesn't fall under NTSB jurisdiction? They'll likely be making some recommendations....

@Betty P. Thanks for your post w another good question.
Per below, I'd agree, some NTSB new rec's are likely. From our friends at wikipedia:

"The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) is an independent U.S. government investigative agency responsible for civil transportation accident investigation. In this role, the NTSB investigates and reports on aviation accidents and incidents, certain types of highway crashes, ship and marine accidents, pipeline incidents, and railroad accidents...." ^ bbm^
"Marine: For marine investigations, jurisdiction into investigations is divided between the NTSB and the U.S. Coast Guard.[2] The division of investigative jurisdiction and responsibilities is prescribed in a detailed Memorandum of Understanding between the two agencies...."
"Safety recommendations
"As of 2014[update], the NTSB has issued about 14,000 safety recommendations in its history, 73 percent of which have been adopted in whole or in part by the entities to which they were directed....
"Among transportation safety improvements brought about or inspired by NTSB recommendations:
"Marine. Recreational boating safety, improved fire safety on cruise ships, and lifesaving devices on fishing vessels."
^ National Transportation Safety Board - Wikipedia ^

 

[realanastasia]

I don't understand why posters keep referring to a female crew member who was the cook. The cook was Mike Kohls, life long surfer, father of one daughter, and the "galley cook and deckhand for Conception." (KTLA; Ventura County Star

sebla.com/2019/09/04/divers-resume-search-for-remains-off-santa-cruz-island-2-days-after-deadly-dive

I am not sure, but I think he is the one body that has not been recovered. This would be very interesting given his bunk position #17U closest to both a "utility closet" (is that electrical?) and also stairs, and his job in the galley.

What am I not getting about some female crew member?

One of the four male crew members who escaped the Conception (and made it to a neighboring boat where they requested help) was reportedly very distraught because his girlfriend, also a crew member, was still aboard the burning vessel. I believe he may have indicated she had been separate from the other crew members and was last known to have been in the boat’s sleeping quarters, but if you want to fact-check, look for the first article published with quotes from the owners of The Grape Escape (it’ll be linked on one of the first pages of this thread).

MOO

 

[SandyQLS]

One of the four male crew members who escaped the Conception (and made it to a neighboring boat where they requested help) was reportedly very distraught because his girlfriend, also a crew member, was still aboard the burn

One of the four male crew members who escaped the Conception (and made it to a neighboring boat where they requested help) was reportedly very distraught because his girlfriend, also a crew member, was still aboard the burning vessel. I believe he may have indicated she had been separate from the other crew members and was last known to have been in the boat’s sleeping quarters, but if you want to fact-check, look for the first article published with quotes from the owners of The Grape Escape (it’ll be linked on one of the first pages of this thread).

MOO

ing vessel. I believe he may have indicated she had been separate from the other crew members and was last known to have been in the boat’s sleeping quarters, but if you want to fact-check, look for the first article published with quotes from the owners of The Grape Escape (it’ll be linked on one of the first pages of this thread).

MOO

Thanks. I went up and deleted my whole post. I finally located an extensive CBS article about Allie Kurtz, female crew member. But as of 9/5, at least KTLA has crew member Mike Kohls also missing.

I give up. The news has been so inaccurate, and the govt so cagey.

 

[MsFacetious]

Thanks. I went up and deleted my whole post. I finally located an extensive CBS article about Allie Kurtz, female crew member. But as of 9/5, at least KTLA has crew member Mike Kohls also missing.

I give up. The news has been so inaccurate, and the govt so cagey.

Mike Kohls was never missing. I am not sure HOW this didn't get reported and clarified but it's literally right here.

Rita Garcia‏Verified account @TheRitaGarcia
DEVELOPING: James Kohls just arrived on scene looking for his brother Mike. He says his loved one works as a cook onboard the dive boat named #Conception. It caught fire early this morning. 33 passengers are still unaccounted for. #FoxLA


3 MINUTES later....

Rita Garcia‏Verified account @TheRitaGarcia Sep 2
Rita Garcia Retweeted Rita Garcia

BREAKING UPDATE: James says his brother Mike is SAFE!

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Preliminary indications are that “the cause of death was smoke inhalation” and “that the victims died prior to being burned,” Brown told reporters. DNA samples from relatives were needed for identification because of the extent of the burns.

There are no plans for autopsies because of the belief that smoke inhalation killed the victims, Brown said. The final determination will be made by a medical examiner.

Authorities have notified the next of kin of all those who died.

The names of 22 victims were released Friday:

— Carol Diana Adamic, 60, of Santa Cruz, California

— Neal Gustav Baltz, 42, of Phoenix, Arizona

— Patricia Ann Beitzinger, 48, of Chandler, Arizona

— Vaidehi Campbell, 41, of Felton, California

— Kendra Chan, 26, of Oxnard, California

— Raymond “Scott” Chan, 59, of Los Altos, California

— Justin Carroll Dignam, 58, of Anaheim, California

— Andrew Fritz, 40, of Sacramento, California

— Daniel Garcia, 46, of Berkeley, California

— Marybeth Guiney, 51, of Santa Monica, California

— Yulia Krashennaya, 40, of Berkeley, California

— Alexandra Kurtz, 26, of Santa Barbara, California

— Charles McIlvain, 44, of Santa Monica, California

— Caroline McLaughlin, 45, of Oakland, California

— Angela Rose Quitasol, 28, of Stockton, California

— Evan Michel Quitasol, 37, of Stockton, California

— Michael Quitasol, 62, of Stockton, California

— Nicole Storm Quitasol, 31, of Imperial Beach, California

— Steven Salika, 55, of Santa Cruz, California

— Tia Salika-Adamic, 17, of Santa Cruz, California

— Ted Strom, 62, Germantown, Tennessee

— Wei Tan, 26, of Goleta, California
22 victims of diving boat fire identified; they likely died from smoke inhalation, officials say

 

[danzn16]

Re the regulation discussion, my feeling is that this was a group of risk takers. They were scuba divers -- and not little hotel dive scuba divers, or even day trip scuba divers -- but days long, in extremely close and not posh quarters, scuba divers. Not only that, but they dove in the Pacific (not the clear water in Mexico or elsewhere) and in a location that is well known for more than its share of Great Whites. The divers here will know that even just breathing with scuba gear in a pool is a bridge too far for a lot of people, much less what this group was doing. They were adventurers and I doubt that any of them would be in favor of more regulation because of the freak accident they experienced. jmo

I don’t think you could be any more correct

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Amaral navigated his boat close enough to the Conception's bow to hurl a grappling hook aboard. He neither heard nor saw any signs of life.

"You can't help but think what is inside there — the souls inside the boat," he said Friday, closing his eyes as he sat in his small waterside office at Ventura Harbor.

The hook caught and held. Amaral towed the smoke-spewing Conception away from the rocks back into the water.

Earlier, he used his spotlight to search the shoreline for survivors. He found no one. After the boat sank, he searched through the debris that was emerging.

Bodies were there, too. Four of them were recovered while Amaral was there.

"Those images will be there for the rest of my life," he said.

He piloted his boat back to Ventura Harbor. The adrenaline wore off. The magnitude of what he had seen took grip.

He thought of the families of the people on the boat. He thought of their pain.

People asked him if he was OK. He understood their intent but it felt, in the moment, like the questions were misdirected. He didn't lose anybody.

"It's almost like a survivor's guilt," he said.

Amaral won't speculate on causes of the tragedy. He told of how he responded to a call in August of a powerboat that was taking on water near Santa Barbara Island. The Vision — a sister boat of Conception also operated by Truth Aquatics — rescued the craft's six passengers.

"They're out there willing to help others," he said.

Amaral won't be directly involved in the salvage of Conception. He is ready to play a support role. He said the efforts will be complicated because the fire gutted and weakened the boat. Its diesel fuel represents a potential pollutant.

"The boat is laying upside down," he said. "... Once they roll it, they have to lift and get it on the barge."

He posted videos of the tragedy on his company's Facebook page. The images still play on a loop in his mind, too.
Racing to help: Ventura towboat captain relives boat fire tragedy

 

[dixiegirl1035]

NOTE: Please understand that this comment is not meant to insult or hurt the victims' families but just to rationally discuss legal matters.

I have been following a scuba forum and the common thinking about this lawsuit is that it was filed at the behest or direction of the insurance agency/agencies involved with Truth Aquatics. The fact that it was filed so quickly and that families have only a six month window to respond is troubling, but maybe the purpose behind filing it so soon after the tragedy. IMO, filing it so quickly is heartless, especially since many victims remain unburied and one has not been found yet. However, I am sure the insurance company/ies have pushed to have it done ASAP in order to limit their liability.

The NTSB and authorities investigating this accident have stated they will file a preliminary report in 10 or so days, but that it will take a year (at least) for them to file the report that would (hopefully) determine the cause of the fire.

One can only hope that this tragedy will result in safer vessels, including regulations that take into account modern necessities and conveniences of customers, including phone and camera rechargers - especially if they are found to be the ultimate cause of the fire.

My heart goes out to the families of those killed in this horrible tragedy.

Yes, as happened with FAA rules for lithium batteries a few years back due to fires and deaths.

US announces ban on transporting lithium ion batteries as cargo on passenger flights.

I have done overnight on boats and I know that there are small spaces in the sleeping berth where you can charge and also put other personal items that might be aerosol cans. It could be something like an overheated battery charging next to an item that could explode with flammables?

That being said, if it were an explosive fire you would think at least one person would wake up and start screaming and the crew would have heard such.

In all the reports, nothing has been said of the crew hearing yelling. Perhaps it just has not come out yet.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Amaral navigated his boat close enough to the Conception's bow to hurl a grappling hook aboard. He neither heard nor saw any signs of life.

"You can't help but think what is inside there — the souls inside the boat," he said Friday, closing his eyes as he sat in his small waterside office at Ventura Harbor.

The hook caught and held. Amaral towed the smoke-spewing Conception away from the rocks back into the water.

Earlier, he used his spotlight to search the shoreline for survivors. He found no one. After the boat sank, he searched through the debris that was emerging.

Bodies were there, too. Four of them were recovered while Amaral was there.

"Those images will be there for the rest of my life," he said.

He piloted his boat back to Ventura Harbor. The adrenaline wore off. The magnitude of what he had seen took grip.

He thought of the families of the people on the boat. He thought of their pain.

People asked him if he was OK. He understood their intent but it felt, in the moment, like the questions were misdirected. He didn't lose anybody.

"It's almost like a survivor's guilt," he said.

Amaral won't speculate on causes of the tragedy. He told of how he responded to a call in August of a powerboat that was taking on water near Santa Barbara Island. The Vision — a sister boat of Conception also operated by Truth Aquatics — rescued the craft's six passengers.

"They're out there willing to help others," he said.

Amaral won't be directly involved in the salvage of Conception. He is ready to play a support role. He said the efforts will be complicated because the fire gutted and weakened the boat. Its diesel fuel represents a potential pollutant.

"The boat is laying upside down," he said. "... Once they roll it, they have to lift and get it on the barge."

He posted videos of the tragedy on his company's Facebook page. The images still play on a loop in his mind, too.
Racing to help: Ventura towboat captain relives boat fire tragedy

Thanks for posting that i’m. After reading the article I am searching for words to describe how horrible this must be for the rescuers and searchers. Like the rowboat capt said, this will stay with them forever. God bless everyone helping, and most of all, God bless all those who died. I’m so sad for all of them, out expecting to have another day of fun diving. I hurt for everyone as I read all the updates. What else can I say.

 

[PrairieWind]

Preliminary indications are that “the cause of death was smoke inhalation” and “that the victims died prior to being burned,” Brown told reporters. DNA samples from relatives were needed for identification because of the extent of the burns.

There are no plans for autopsies because of the belief that smoke inhalation killed the victims, Brown said. The final determination will be made by a medical examiner.

Authorities have notified the next of kin of all those who died.

The names of 22 victims were released Friday:

— Carol Diana Adamic, 60, of Santa Cruz, California

— Neal Gustav Baltz, 42, of Phoenix, Arizona

— Patricia Ann Beitzinger, 48, of Chandler, Arizona

— Vaidehi Campbell, 41, of Felton, California

— Kendra Chan, 26, of Oxnard, California

— Raymond “Scott” Chan, 59, of Los Altos, California

— Justin Carroll Dignam, 58, of Anaheim, California

— Andrew Fritz, 40, of Sacramento, California

— Daniel Garcia, 46, of Berkeley, California

— Marybeth Guiney, 51, of Santa Monica, California

— Yulia Krashennaya, 40, of Berkeley, California

— Alexandra Kurtz, 26, of Santa Barbara, California

— Charles McIlvain, 44, of Santa Monica, California

— Caroline McLaughlin, 45, of Oakland, California

— Angela Rose Quitasol, 28, of Stockton, California

— Evan Michel Quitasol, 37, of Stockton, California

— Michael Quitasol, 62, of Stockton, California

— Nicole Storm Quitasol, 31, of Imperial Beach, California

— Steven Salika, 55, of Santa Cruz, California

— Tia Salika-Adamic, 17, of Santa Cruz, California

— Ted Strom, 62, Germantown, Tennessee

— Wei Tan, 26, of Goleta, California
22 victims of diving boat fire identified; they likely died from smoke inhalation, officials say

Strange. I would think autopsies would be required.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Brown says there are no plans to conduct traditional autopsies, with a pathologist convinced smoke inhalation is the primary cause of death, but examiners will make a final determination.

The sheriff says there are multiple investigations into different aspects of the fire but it hasn't become a criminal probe.
Santa Barbara boat fire: Smoke inhalation likely killed victims, autopsies not planned

 

[Handsome Sailor]

Re the regulation discussion, my feeling is that this was a group of risk takers. They were scuba divers -- and not little hotel dive scuba divers, or even day trip scuba divers -- but days long, in extremely close and not posh quarters, scuba divers. Not only that, but they dove in the Pacific (not the clear water in Mexico or elsewhere) and in a location that is well known for more than its share of Great Whites. The divers here will know that even just breathing with scuba gear in a pool is a bridge too far for a lot of people, much less what this group was doing. They were adventurers and I doubt that any of them would be in favor of more regulation because of the freak accident they experienced. jmo

Not true. some of them were children with families. please do not speak for the victims. it is disrespectful.

 

[BeachSky]

Search for final victim of dive boat fire suspended because of high winds

With high winds expected to persist, search-and-recovery efforts for the missing victim as well as the operation to salvage the Conception are not expected to resume until early next week, Santa Barbara County sheriff’s Lt. Erik Raney announced Saturday afternoon.

“Search efforts are expected to resume at the same time salvage operations resume, with the recovery of the missing victim remaining a top priority,” he said in a news release.

 

[firebird]

Not true. some of them were children with families. please do not speak for the victims. it is disrespectful.

I'll post as I like, subject to the TOS. Thanks.

But FTR, there were two teenagers 16 and 17 on the boat. Everyone else was an adult.

The two teenagers on the boat also were adventurers, and their dive instructor specifically hopes that this accident won't deter people from having dive adventures.

"Peyton recalls how Salika and his wife . . . passed their love for the water onto their daughter, which allowed her to start diving and experiencing the world from a very young age.

“[Salika and Adamic] have been bringing Tia to our snorkeling program in Fiji since 2008,” Peyton explains. “They’ve been to Fiji three times, and were booked to go to Fiji next Thanksgiving.”
“This family loved the ocean, enjoyed their time together and wanted to spend their time unplugged from the virtual world that was their work life,” she says. “Steve was an avid diver. They were older when they had Tia, and they took her across the world. When she was 8, she was diving in Palau.”

“This family loved diving,” Peyton continues. “How happy they are as a family, underwater, learning about corals and fish. They were an adventurous, fun, family and loved being outdoors. [They] created times to do that.”

Salika and Adamic were especially fond of diving because it gave them a chance to create memories with their daughter while also giving back to other communities.

“They enjoyed going to the villages and meeting the local kids. They always brought donations to the local villagers and the kids,” Peyton notes. “They believed in having a living classroom for her … They wanted her to enjoy their passion.”

“They were just wonderful people… [and] a wonderful family,” she adds. “I know that they would be very sad to think this would deter someone from wanting to dive. One of their favorite things to do.”

Family of 3 Including Daughter Celebrating Her 17th Birthday Presumed Dead After Calif. Boat Fire

 

[firebird]

Search for final victim of dive boat fire suspended because of high winds

With high winds expected to persist, search-and-recovery efforts for the missing victim as well as the operation to salvage the Conception are not expected to resume until early next week, Santa Barbara County sheriff’s Lt. Erik Raney announced Saturday afternoon.

“Search efforts are expected to resume at the same time salvage operations resume, with the recovery of the missing victim remaining a top priority,” he said in a news release.

Do we know who's missing?

 

[kaen]

Do we know who's missing?

No, I don't think we do. I will say that if I had a loved one on that boat and there was only one person still missing, I would be apoplectic that it was my loved one who was not found. It is hard enough to know your loved one is deceased but to not have their body and think of them stuck in the deep would be excruciating. I hope all are found.