CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 1

[Angelo]

There seem to be a lot of people who might be disgruntled in this particular case.

For example, I detect that perhaps several NEW "family" members of Bob's ("A" & "SQ's"?) MAY BE posting accusations of murder against Bob's family members. They may be sorry, some day when the truth is told. I don't think Bob would be pleased at all. His supposed daughter's posts on IS and in the newspapers are no doubt things a normal honest daughter should be able to say to her father's face anyway so, I do not see them as having trashed their father at all.

I disagree. I have never seen posts from family members of a person who is missing like the ones the daughters posted.

Without presenting facts obtained directly from the Police, these postings are more transparent than convincing. Funny, that the newspaper never mentioned anything about "other" family members not being suspects (or being cleared)?

Only the barber woman and her husband have been cleared.

I would think the barber's husband must wonder what in the world his wife WAS doing to convince an elderly man to "loan" or give large sums of money. Now, there's another possible disgruntled individual, when you think about it realistically, unless he was also in on the sweetheart scam. Another question is, how will she repay the "loans" if Bob doesn't return? Are they really cleared? Are Bob's family really not suspects? I find it very interesting that the paper does NOT quote the police saying either about Bob's NEW family?

How do you know it was a "sweetheart scam"?

The police only say that the barber woman and her husband have been cleared.

I warned both of my parents about scam artists and they understood I am being protective of them. So many sick individuals prey on the elderly these days and it is getting worse every day. There are a multitude of scams out there, it's frightening.

True...What is your point?

Hopefully, Bob will return to his home and everyone will find out he was not thinking clearly but was convinced it was his only alternative to relieve himself of scammers. (couldn't see the forest for the trees IMHO) I hope his daughters warned Bob about these types too.

Mr Harrod returning to his home would be the ideal resolution. Unfortunately it is not likely. Bob Harrod is in his eighties. He does not seem like the type of gentleman to run away.

 

[cloudajo]

[snipped] Just to help you a little here, do you know what a conservatorship is? It has nothing to do with a trust!

This stuff makes my head hurt, but isn’t conservatorship of the estate connected to the trust? There were probate filings pertaining to both conservatorship of estate and the trust though.

• On 04/01/2008, there is a probate filing for GH, decedent that says “Safekeeping Will.”
• On 08/07/2009, there is a filing for “Conservatorship of Estate Only,” with RH as the “proposed conservatee” and the “proposed conservators” are two of his daughters. F filed a “Request” on 10/16/2009 and petition for conservatorship on 10/19/2009. Continued to 12/01/2009.
• On 08/28/2009, there is a filing for “H – Trust” that says “Trust Proceedings” and the same two daughters are the “trust petitioners.” Continued to 2/10/2010.

Overview of Conservatorships
There are two forms of conservatorships: conservatorships of the person and conservatorships of the estate. A conservator of the person may be appointed for someone who is unable to provide properly for his or her personal needs for physical health, food, clothing, or shelter. A conservator of the estate may be appointed for someone who is substantially unable to manage his or her own financial resources or resist fraud or undue influence. The court can appoint a conservator of the person or the estate, or both.

Once a conservatorship is imposed, the conservator will take the place of the conservatee for most transactions. A conservatee is presumed to lack capacity to contract, to sell property, to make gifts, to incur a debt, and so forth. However, absent a court order to the contrary, a conservatorship does not remove the conservatee’s ability to make a will, to vote, to give informed consent for medical treatment, to marry, or to seek divorce.
http://www.a-1law.com/prob3.htm

What is a family trust?
A trust exists when one person (a "trustee") holds and owns property for the benefit of another person (a "beneficiary"). A family trust is a trust set up to benefit members of your family.

The purpose of the family trust is for you to progressively transfer your assets to the trust, so that legally you own no assets yourself, but for you, through the trust, to still have some control over, and get the benefit of, these assets.

You can set up a family trust either while you are still alive (by a declaration of trust contained in a trust deed) or when you die (by the terms of your will).

http://www.howtolaw.co.nz/html/ml287.asp

 

[cloudajo]

IMO, I think the PPD has suspect(s) in mind. They just need enough evidence to make an arrest and get a conviction, which sometimes takes time.

Unfortunately, I don't think Bob is "coming home." I think all choices were taken from him that Monday.

[snipped]
Chief Anderson was cryptic in his responses during an interview about the future of the investigation. "I don't want to show my hand to you," he said. "We have a couple of ongoing roads we're going to go down. I don't want to alert possible suspects. We have nothing to focus on directly yet."
http://www.ocregister.com/news/-46187-ocprint--.html

 

[Quiltn]

It's been reported by the media and I believe that information came straight from LE. Have you read the entire thread yet? Maybe you should do that. And you might want to read the TOS before making any other posts.

The two responses are the first references made about CVS, please note the following are respectfully copied and pasted from IS. In everything that I have read and re-read this is the first reference to CVS and have not seen anything in the newspapers. Please note that there is nothing that mentions the items purchased. Again, if you could kindly direct me to this information it would be greatly appreciated.

09-09-2009, 03:49 PM
dreamtime
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 510

There had been discussion about the timeline.
The first news reports said police saw the Home Depot receipt and it was timed at 3:30pm.
Later news stories said SIL was back from Home Depot around 1pm.

I emailed the detective in charge of this case at PPD, asking if there could be clarification.
I received an email back.
LE says : snipped:
' The Home Depot receipt is 3:04. He went earlier to CVS pharmacy.'

So, we have our answer.
SIL was out running errands as well as doing repair work at the house.
He must have returned from the CVS pharmacy around 1pm.
But back out to Home Depot after he knew Robert H was not home. I would imagine SIL thought Robert was out for a walk or someone came by, i.e., barber lady.
So, SIL is back at the house, after say, 3:30pm.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------
'If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.' Mark Twain.



09-10-2009, 07:52 AM
Postergeist
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Away Down South in Dixie
Posts: 5,071

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cankle
<snipped>

There is a CVS a few minutes away from Mr. Harrod's home.

The police department flyer has Mr. Harrod last being seen or heard from at 11:00am.

Most reports have the SIL returning to find the housekeeper on the porch. Most reports have him returning from the hardware store.
Are you from this area or have been to this area Cankle?

Just wondering as to why you would know that there is a CVS close to Mr. Harrod's home that is just a few minutes away.

I too have CVS stores where I live- but I frequent many of them, not just the one that is close to my home. I only get Rx filled at one tho, since it's a 24 hr. store.

I've only read about the SIL going to the CVS store from the poster dreamtime that emailed LE.

Perhaps you know more?

 

[Angelo]

IMO, I think the PPD has suspect(s) in mind. They just need enough evidence to make an arrest and get a conviction, which sometimes takes time.

Unfortunately, I don't think Bob is "coming home." I think all choices were taken from him that Monday.

[snipped]
Chief Anderson was cryptic in his responses during an interview about the future of the investigation. "I don't want to show my hand to you," he said. "We have a couple of ongoing roads we're going to go down. I don't want to alert possible suspects. We have nothing to focus on directly yet."
http://www.ocregister.com/news/-46187-ocprint--.html

Sadly, I agree with you.

I hope you are correct and the police have suspects and some sort of theory on what happened to BH. I can understand the police not wanting to tip their hand until they get the evidence they need. Hopefully they will.

So many missing souls in this country.

 

[SuziQ]

The two responses are the first references made about CVS, please note the following are respectfully copied and pasted from IS. In everything that I have read and re-read this is the first reference to CVS and have not seen anything in the newspapers. Please note that there is nothing that mentions the items purchased. Again, if you could kindly direct me to this information it would be greatly appreciated.

09-09-2009, 03:49 PM
dreamtime
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 510

There had been discussion about the timeline.
The first news reports said police saw the Home Depot receipt and it was timed at 3:30pm.
Later news stories said SIL was back from Home Depot around 1pm.

I emailed the detective in charge of this case at PPD, asking if there could be clarification.
I received an email back.
LE says : snipped:
' The Home Depot receipt is 3:04. He went earlier to CVS pharmacy.'

So, we have our answer.
SIL was out running errands as well as doing repair work at the house.
He must have returned from the CVS pharmacy around 1pm.
But back out to Home Depot after he knew Robert H was not home. I would imagine SIL thought Robert was out for a walk or someone came by, i.e., barber lady.
So, SIL is back at the house, after say, 3:30pm.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------
'If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.' Mark Twain.



09-10-2009, 07:52 AM
Postergeist
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Away Down South in Dixie
Posts: 5,071

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cankle
<snipped>

There is a CVS a few minutes away from Mr. Harrod's home.

The police department flyer has Mr. Harrod last being seen or heard from at 11:00am.

Most reports have the SIL returning to find the housekeeper on the porch. Most reports have him returning from the hardware store.
Are you from this area or have been to this area Cankle?

Just wondering as to why you would know that there is a CVS close to Mr. Harrod's home that is just a few minutes away.

I too have CVS stores where I live- but I frequent many of them, not just the one that is close to my home. I only get Rx filled at one tho, since it's a 24 hr. store.

I've only read about the SIL going to the CVS store from the poster dreamtime that emailed LE.

Perhaps you know more?

In going back to try to find the source of the paper plate comment, I realized that incorrectly recalled it being reported in the media. Way back when, I did verify through reliable sources what the purchases were. I can't however reveal those sources to back this up as fact. So take the paper plates as a rumor if you want. Imo, whether paperplates were purchased or not, is not as important as the CVS visit that helps build a timeline.

 

[MeoW333]

I hadn't seen this case before today. I don't know how I missed it. I've spent quite a while going through all of the pages since the beginning.

IMHO, there is foul play here.

From what I know, if the parents assets are held in a trust and one dies, I don't believe there's any reason for the recipients of the trust to receive anything until the second parent passes. I could be wrong. And, if there's a trust, the parent's may not have a separate 'will.' Again, I could be wrong.

I believe the children converging on the family home and a discussion with the father was because they may have been concerned how it was going to play out now that there was a new spouse. He did have a number of notes around the home indicating his desire to have his new wife's name placed on some of the assets. As the new wife was coming in a few days, they may have felt compelled to act quickly.

Doesn't anyone find it strange that when the SIL found the dad missing, although he was helping him do things to prepare for the wife's return, he just up a left and went home? His EXCUSE, he figured the dad was visiting a neighbor.

What????? Sorry, makes no sense.

No, he returns home, lets his wife call the dad to no avail, and the wife ends up calling in a 'missing persons report.'

I see red flags all over this!

JMHO
fran

LE needs to take a good look at all 3 of the daughters and the SIL. Greed is a horrible things, and all of them seemed to have it. Instead of being happy for their father for having reunited with his former love, they are concerned about who will inherit what in the will.
SIL sees that the dad is missing thinks he went to a neighbors??! He is stalling and makes the daughter call when he gets home, buys them more time.
With preparing the house for a new wife, i doubt he would have been over a neighbors, especially after going on a walk. He would need the time to make sure things were ready for his new wife.
How ironic of his children to "rid of him" right before the new wife gets there.
I really don't suspect F, i think she is sincere and i feel so bad for her, she looses her love not once, yet twice. Her daughter suggested she look him up, she did so not knowing whether he'd be rich or poor. IMO, it wouldn't have mattered either way, she would have loved him.

Has all possible storage units, property owned by his children & inlaws been investigated. All of their recent purchases on credit cards starting at when they found out that a new wife was moving in been thoroughly investigated? What about their computers? They may have been making google searches to learn info about how their will may change if a new wife is in the picture. Their phone records?
Everything should have started to take place as soon as the children learned he was having his new wife move in.
LE should be able to see the "hotbed" of activity if they are investigating them from that period onward. This is definitely foul play.
That their father and his new wife married secretly, shows they knew that his children wouldn't approve at all.
Why is LE waiting on this case? It seems easy to solve. Maybe they are gathering more evidence for charges to stick, idk..

 

[hoppyfrog]

Don't post that again.

Hoppy
mod

 

[surelock]

There seem to be a lot of people who might be disgruntled in this particular case.

For example, I detect that perhaps several NEW "family" members of Bob's ("A" & "SQ's"?) MAY BE posting accusations of murder against Bob's family members. They may be sorry, some day when the truth is told. I don't think Bob would be pleased at all. His supposed daughter's posts on IS and in the newspapers are no doubt things a normal honest daughter should be able to say to her father's face anyway so, I do not see them as having trashed their father at all.

Snipped to address specific point.

Posters seem to gravitate to one side or the other rather quickly in this discussion. We all have biases based on our personal experiences and observations that influence which way we will gravitate when presented with the facts.

From the first story that was published regarding the newly reunited couple the "facts" have been continually changing. Starting with when they met, how old they were and how long that they had dated. The vast discrepencies that were reported regarding what should have been basic details raises legitimate questions about the fairytale romance.

The details of the day that Bob went missing are fluid as well. How did the time-line of that day get so confusing? Has the sil changed any details of his initial report or has the confusion come from others. He was certainly in the right place at the right time, to either perpetrate a crime or be a scapegoat for someone else.

There are legitimate reasons to consider many possible suspects or scenarios in this case. Most posters form an opinion and then dig in their heals and fight passionately for their case. Some may be fervent enough to be mistaken for insiders.

As far as relatives or friends of the individuals involved in Bob's life posting here, they would want to identify themselves and clear up the confusing details. The insights of insiders are usually well received and given extra consideration. There is no reason that benefits Bob or his loved ones for someone to be sneaky on this message board. A better assumption is that posters can be passionate.

Finding Bob is our common ground.

 

[dreamweaver]

surelock:
I will echo your last sentence: Very nicely said, btw.
:twocents:

Finding Bob is our common ground.

 

[MeoW333]

Surelock, i like your post! =)
Maybe someone could make a list of different POIs and scenarios in this case?
Having different angles to look at helps a lot..

 

[surelock]

Surelock, i like your post! =)
Maybe someone could make a list of different POIs and scenarios in this case?
Having different angles to look at helps a lot..

Maybe we could start by trying to determine the actual facts. I would like to start with Bob's description and will followup with the earlier romance and Bob's last known date as time allows.

Here is a link to the Placentia Police Departments flier regarding Bob http://www.placentiapd.org/pd/PDF/misc/09-3263 920A HARROD-1.pdf. This was last updated on July 30, 2009. According to the flier Bob is 82 years old, weighs 140 lbs and has brown eyes.

Here is a link to AMW for Bob http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/brief.cfm?id=67544. Now Bob is 81 years old, weighs 160-170 lbs and has blue/grey eyes.

The Placentia Police and AMW appear to be searching for two different men. How and why would incorrect information be given to one or both of these organizations? Which, if either, is correct? Who supplied the wrong information and why? Why hasn't there been a correction?

Eye color and general weight are facts that should be consistent but for some reason are not in Bob's case. It is hard to pin down any actual facts and that should not be the case.

 

[dreamweaver]

Maybe we could start by trying to determine the actual facts. I would like to start with Bob's description and will followup with the earlier romance and Bob's last known date as time allows.

Here is a link to the Placentia Police Departments flier regarding Bob http://www.placentiapd.org/pd/PDF/misc/09-3263 920A HARROD-1.pdf. This was last updated on July 30, 2009. According to the flier Bob is 82 years old, weighs 140 lbs and has brown eyes.

Here is a link to AMW for Bob http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/brief.cfm?id=67544. Now Bob is 81 years old, weighs 160-170 lbs and has blue/grey eyes.

The Placentia Police and AMW appear to be searching for two different men. How and why would incorrect information be given to one or both of these organizations? Which, if either, is correct? Who supplied the wrong information and why? Why hasn't there been a correction?

Eye color and general weight are facts that should be consistent but for some reason are not in Bob's case. It is hard to pin down any actual facts and that should not be the case.

Fontelle called in the missing persons report to PPD.
And I think it was the daughters who were in touch with AMW.

 

[dreamweaver]

Maybe we could start by trying to determine the actual facts. I would like to start with Bob's description and will followup with the earlier romance and Bob's last known date as time allows.

Here is a link to the Placentia Police Departments flier regarding Bob http://www.placentiapd.org/pd/PDF/misc/09-3263 920A HARROD-1.pdf. This was last updated on July 30, 2009. According to the flier Bob is 82 years old, weighs 140 lbs and has brown eyes.

Here is a link to AMW for Bob http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/brief.cfm?id=67544. Now Bob is 81 years old, weighs 160-170 lbs and has blue/grey eyes.

The Placentia Police and AMW appear to be searching for two different men. How and why would incorrect information be given to one or both of these organizations? Which, if either, is correct? Who supplied the wrong information and why? Why hasn't there been a correction?

Eye color and general weight are facts that should be consistent but for some reason are not in Bob's case. It is hard to pin down any actual facts and that should not be the case.

And following on your line
of thinking, surelock,
then PPD probably sent this out to hospitals,
emergency rooms, homeless shelters.
This, of course, when PPD thought Robert had
just taken off.

I will check amw and see if a missing persons forum got started for Robert.

 

[ShowMe]

Maybe we could start by trying to determine the actual facts. I would like to start with Bob's description and will followup with the earlier romance and Bob's last known date as time allows.

Here is a link to the Placentia Police Departments flier regarding Bob http://www.placentiapd.org/pd/PDF/misc/09-3263 920A HARROD-1.pdf. This was last updated on July 30, 2009. According to the flier Bob is 82 years old, weighs 140 lbs and has brown eyes.

Here is a link to AMW for Bob http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/brief.cfm?id=67544. Now Bob is 81 years old, weighs 160-170 lbs and has blue/grey eyes.

The Placentia Police and AMW appear to be searching for two different men. How and why would incorrect information be given to one or both of these organizations? Which, if either, is correct? Who supplied the wrong information and why? Why hasn't there been a correction?

Eye color and general weight are facts that should be consistent but for some reason are not in Bob's case. It is hard to pin down any actual facts and that should not be the case.

Here's another link I found:

http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=6671.0

This should help answer some description questions with the exception of errors in Placentia PD's flyer. They should have confirmed the information reported to them with his drivers license records or the Department of Justice at the very least, before making up the flyer. I also wonder why it was not ever corrected! No wonder they can't locate him. How inept can they be?

After all,
Finding Bob IS our common ground!

 

[dreamweaver]

Here's another link I found:

http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=6671.0

This should help answer some description questions with the exception of errors in Placentia PD's flyer. They should have confirmed the information reported to them with his drivers license records or the Department of Justice at the very least, before making up the flyer. I also wonder why it was not ever corrected! No wonder they can't locate him. How inept can they be?

After all,
Finding Bob IS our common ground!

I thought the same. If PPD was aware there was a difference in reporting of color eyes, height, hair, then it would be logical to think they
would check CA DMV records.
But, nothing has changed.

Project Jason guidelines on putting a missing person on their site is that it has to be a family member or someone given permission by a family member.
http://www.projectjason.org/report.shtml

Robert H was first on that website on Aug. 14, 2009.

note: On projectjason.org forum, one news article quotes PPD
with the original missing description PPD has.

 

[cloudajo]

I thought the same. If PPD was aware there was a difference in reporting of color eyes, height, hair, then it would be logical to think they
would check CA DMV records.
But, nothing has changed.

Project Jason guidelines on putting a missing person on their site is that it has to be a family member or someone given permission by a family member.
http://www.projectjason.org/report.shtml

Robert H was first on that website on Aug. 14, 2009.

note: On projectjason.org forum, one news article quotes PPD
with the original missing description PPD has.

So the profile info posted here on Aug 14 most likely came from a family member or someone with permission by a family member.

What troubles me is, it says he was wearing a white hat, but it was posted by a daughter that Bob said he had no plans to go anywhere that day. I guess it's possible, but I have trouble picturing him in his house wearing a white hat if he wasn't going out. Also, it says in the profile he was last seen by SIL between 11:00-12:00, not 2:30PM.

Thoughts on that?

===============

Clothing: He was wearing a white hat, white shorts, white belt, white knee high socks, and white reebok tennis shoes. He usually wears a white v-neck undershirt.

Jewelry: Plain gold band on left ring finger, and may be wearing a Masonic right on his right ring finger

Circumstances of Disappearance: Bob was last seen at his residence at 522 Carnation Dr., Placentia, CA at somewhere between 11:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. on Monday, July 27th, 2009 by his son-in-law. He did NOT take his car, but his wallet and keys are missing. His son-in-law went to the store and upon his return at 1pm, the housekeeper was waiting on the front porch, the front door was locked, and Bob was gone.

http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=6671.0

 

[surelock]

So the profile info posted here on Aug 14 most likely came from a family member or someone with permission by a family member.

What troubles me is, it says he was wearing a white hat, but it was posted by a daughter that Bob said he had no plans to go anywhere that day. I guess it's possible, but I have trouble picturing him in his house wearing a white hat if he wasn't going out. Also, it says in the profile he was last seen by SIL between 11:00-12:00, not 2:30PM.

Thoughts on that?

===============

Clothing: He was wearing a white hat, white shorts, white belt, white knee high socks, and white reebok tennis shoes. He usually wears a white v-neck undershirt.

Jewelry: Plain gold band on left ring finger, and may be wearing a Masonic right on his right ring finger

Circumstances of Disappearance: Bob was last seen at his residence at 522 Carnation Dr., Placentia, CA at somewhere between 11:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. on Monday, July 27th, 2009 by his son-in-law. He did NOT take his car, but his wallet and keys are missing. His son-in-law went to the store and upon his return at 1pm, the housekeeper was waiting on the front porch, the front door was locked, and Bob was gone.

http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=6671.0

The white hat was included in the original police report. Maybe Bob usually wore a favorite hat outdoors and that hat is missing from his house.

 

[surelock]

Here's another link I found:

http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=6671.0

This should help answer some description questions with the exception of errors in Placentia PD's flyer. They should have confirmed the information reported to them with his drivers license records or the Department of Justice at the very least, before making up the flyer. I also wonder why it was not ever corrected! No wonder they can't locate him. How inept can they be?

After all,
Finding Bob IS our common ground!

Which info is correct, I sincerely do not know. Maybe the PPD did verify their details with his drivers license and they do match. Or maybe they just listed the info they were given with no fact checks and it is all wrong.

I have seen the other descriptions at Project Jason but have no idea what or who to trust at this point. If we had some ironclad details then we would have an idea of who provided the wrong information and try to determine their reason for doing so.

 

[surelock]

I thought the same. If PPD was aware there was a difference in reporting of color eyes, height, hair, then it would be logical to think they
would check CA DMV records.
But, nothing has changed.

Project Jason guidelines on putting a missing person on their site is that it has to be a family member or someone given permission by a family member.
http://www.projectjason.org/report.shtml

Robert H was first on that website on Aug. 14, 2009.

note: On projectjason.org forum, one news article quotes PPD
with the original missing description PPD has.

Bob's poster says that it was placed by an Awareness Angels Network member. It seems likely that it was generated with updated information from a family member since it is doubtful that Project Jason would take it upon themselves to change Bob's vital statistics.

I wonder which flier, if either, was distributed around the neighborhood?