CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 3

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You do have a point. Just the same, first off, most murderers are 'novice', for better or worse, so I'm not sure how valuable the distinction is. Second, (*and this is under some assumptions about what might have taken place*) not all novice murderers (or murders, full stop) have the ease of an elderly, trusting victim, private in a residence. Again, speaking hypothetically, if the murderer knew the victim's habits (perhaps was even coached on them by another party), and had (as may be the case, given the wonky timeline) hours to sort out the details, I wouldn't think it too hard to collect a couple items that the victim was known to take with him out of the house.

It may be argued that someone who is responsible for and would profit from a victim's death (beyond that of a disappearance) might want the victim's body to be discovered immediately. While this is true, I would imagine the party responsible would also hope not to be tied to the putative crime, and might hope that LE would stagger in their investigation. In that event, the best possible solution for that would be to have a missing person who is presumed dead for legal/estate purposes.

Again, not pointing fingers -- just looking at how the field of possibilities, means, motives, and opportunities could play out. (And still curious if family has offered a reward.)

Excellent points. I just feel that a killer who thought to remove the victim's wallet, keys and possibly hat, would have also been very careful in constructing the timeline of events. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

If this was, in fact, a plan concocted by Bob's family after leaving in anger the night before, I'm thinking that, after they left Bob's, they all met up at another location. They all lived in different areas, so maybe their various cell phone pings can place them together later that night.
 
We don't know when it was discovered Bobs hat, keys and wallet were missing.
We don't know how long LE was there doing a well being check while Fontelle was still in MO and the time the missing persons report was filed. As far as we know the SIL and family had access to Bobs home from Monday morning through the time Fontelle arrived sometime Wednesday.... Going back for the hat, wallet and keys could have occured anytime between Mon and Weds.

jmo
 
Has the hairdresser's son been cleared? I wonder, if Bob gave keys to a neighbor (as well as children), was that the one that moved? And if so, did he return his key to Bob or did he leave it with another neighbor to give back to Bob? Could someone have overheard him talking about the key?


BBM. The hairdressers son is a minor and WS has a firm NO sleuthing of minors policy.

hth
 
So for the well being check-did they just peer in the windows?
Anyone know?

I wondered about that too. It sounds like in certain cases, police can go into the house. I don't think they went into Bob's house but I could be wrong.

What is a police welfare check?
When the well-being of an individual is in question, police will enter a home to check on that person. Such welfare checks have been known to save the lives of older or sick individuals.

Purpose
The police can go into a resident's dwelling without written consent when the resident's welfare and safety are questioned.

Function
Police enter the dwelling after receiving a call of concern, which may come from a neighbor, relative or apartment manager. Mail carriers may report when a senior citizen's mail is not picked up over long periods of time.

Effects
Friends and family find relief in knowing that their older, sick or otherwise disabled loved one is safe. Welfare checks also can discover a resident in distress who could not call for help on their own.

Features
Some police departments work with companies that offer a "call" system to senior citizens and others to ensure their welfare and safety. When these calls are missed or not answered, welfare checks usually are performed.

Considerations
Before performing a welfare check, police may ask a caller if the individual in question has been sick or has health issues. They ask because police want to avoid entering a dwelling without due cause. A police welfare check should not encroach on a resident's rights to privacy.

Warning
Police can enter a dwelling because of health fears or if there has been a noted abrupt change in a resident's normal behavior. However, if the police walk in on illegal activities, arrests will be made.
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2037705
 
I found this UID as a possible match for Bob.
Partial skeletal remains found March 2010 San Bernadino County.

https://identifyus.org/cases/full_report/6788

Partial skeletal remains found scattered in the open desert northeast of Lucerne Valley. Sex is "most likely" male (based on measurements of humeral head). Stature is estimated as 5'6" to 6' - But, no femur located (estimate from tibia), so could be shorter or taller. Age, race cannot be estimated. Time interval estimate appears between one and ten years. Could be much longer. Identity can ONLY be established by DNA.

time interval may be a little off but since they don't know for sure we may want to make sure Bobs DNA has been entered in CODIS for official rule in/out of these partial skeletal remains.

[snipped]

Good find.

I didn't realize there was a Namus unidentified persons site. So the DNA info is critical (and dental records). Is the DOE Network Unidentified Victims index completely separate? I looked at this awhile back but the search feature doesn't seem very good. http://www.doenetwork.org/

NamUs Missing Persons
This site provides an opportunity for families, law enforcement agencies and investigators to search nationwide for missing persons using a variety of powerful search features.

NamUs Unidentified Persons
Welcome to the National Unidentified Persons System, a searchable database created to assist in solving cases that involve unidentified human remains.
This site is part of NamUs, the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System. This database is designed to search for matches against the Missing Persons System.

Namus How it Works Video: https://identifyus.org/how_it_works_video/NamusVideo640.htm
 
Namus is a federally run database that is separate from Doe Network, cloud-Some day I am hoping that doe will run into NAMUS to beef NAMUS up.

NAMUS contains Missing Persons and UID sides to it-recently the sides started to run against each other and started to spit out possible matches which is the purpose of the website. All MP cases are NOT in NAMUS however, and all UID cases are not in Identifyus unfortunately. IIRC, about 10% of both are there. There is legislation being worked on (Campaign for the Missing/Project Jason is a facet) that will make it mandatory for LE and MEDEX's to use the database and enter cases.
 
I have not heard back from Placentia about the DNA but I will ask them if they can tell me how the well being check went down.... :)
 
Namus is a federally run database that is separate from Doe Network, cloud-Some day I am hoping that doe will run into NAMUS to beef NAMUS up.

NAMUS contains Missing Persons and UID sides to it-recently the sides started to run against each other and started to spit out possible matches which is the purpose of the website. All MP cases are NOT in NAMUS however, and all UID cases are not in Identifyus unfortunately. IIRC, about 10% of both are there. There is legislation being worked on (Campaign for the Missing/Project Jason is a facet) that will make it mandatory for LE and MEDEX's to use the database and enter cases.

Wouldn't this be great if NaMus and Doe Network were intertwined?
And be mandatory for LE and MEDEX's to enter information...
Think how many more people could be identified.

I would even volunteer my time, which is what I do now on NaMus.
 
Wouldn't this be great if NaMus and Doe Network were intertwined?
And be mandatory for LE and MEDEX's to enter information...
Think how many more people could be identified.

I would even volunteer my time, which is what I do now on NaMus.

God Bless you dream-I have a sticky up in the forums talking about how to get your case entered.

One of the aspects of legislation that I would like to see is standardized report forms for MP cases that includes FRS info or kits as well as civilian volunteers to either take the data or enter it. Off my soapbox now...lol.

ETA: FRS=Family Reference Sample DNA. Any family member that shares maternal lineage with the missing person can have their DNA processed and warehoused in the event the person if found and cannot speak for themselves. Direct DNA is best, of course, but the mitochondrial DNA passed down from mother to child is a good fingerprint as well and more easily obtained from older remains.
 
Super nice guy and very smart I have to say. NAMUS needs to be updated, because he indicated that they have available DNA sample(s) that have been collected.

This is a complicated, intricate case (my words being used to paraphrase his) and he welcomes additional productive media. I am going to construct a letter to send to Disappeared and Dateline etc...I will post it, but feel free to make contact on your own...what ever makes you happy.
 
Disappeared and Dateline, what about 48 hours Mystery?

TY believe! You rock!
I am SOOOO happy to hear LE is welcomes productive media!
That is FANTASIC news for Bobs case!

Yes please do post a letter and we can all do what we can to get Bob the much needed POSITIVE/PRODUCTIVE media he rightfully deserves!

I will make contact with the detective to ensure he is aware of the partial skeletal remains found not far from SIL's neck of the woods over there in Lucerne Valley, CA.

Did he confirm Bobs dna IS in fact in Codis?

ty! :blowkiss:
 
Cubby, I cc'd you on an email back to the det with your possible match...hope that is OK??
 
Thats fine believe. Always best to have one contact. LE doesn't need to be inundated with calls from too many people. TY!
 
Just an FYI. David Van Norman is the case manager for the UID's in San Bernadino county. Our WS'rs who enthusiastically work the UID forum for potential matches for the missing and unidentified speak VERY highly of Mr. Van Norman's professionalism and prompt response. I'm sure he will make sure the pm between Mr. Harrod and the partial skeleton remains is looked into.

I like to ensure both LE and ME have the info on possible matches so I will make contact with Mr. Van Norman to ensure he too has the possible match between Bob and the partial remains previously posted.
 
FINALLY!!! I am so hopeful that we will finally find some answers. Mr. Harrod deserves the dignity (in life, and in death) that we all deserve
 
FINALLY!!! I am so hopeful that we will finally find some answers. Mr. Harrod deserves the dignity (in life, and in death) that we all deserve


He does and if I have anything to do with it HE WILL!

We are working hard on your behalf Bob!
 
Spoke with David Van Norman. Bobs dna is not in codis so we need to get that done.
It needs to go to the CA dept of justice state lab......... and usually takes about 4 mo's on average for missing persons.

I'll add a submitted thread to the UID section so anyone working that forum will know we submitted the pm but still need Bobs dna entered into Codis.

UID forum thread for the possible match:
Submitted NamUs Case#6788 compared to Robert "Bob" Harrod - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
 
Great work sleuthers. It is really encouraging to see you not letting this go. Keep up the good work.
 
Still working on a communication for some of the shows we listed... :)
 
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