CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #2

[margarita25]

It's unfortunate the Cecil hotel does not have better security cameras set up, it's not enough to capture only what's inside the elevator. We're not seeing enough to get a clear perspective of what really happened, and there are not enough witnesses.

Cameras at the entrance.

 

[margarita25]

Bunch of cameras...whether or not they were functioning or the footage is still accessible is another question...

not to mention, whether or not this footage would be released to us anyway.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Hi guys, I am also new here. I was up until 7 am reading the first thread and am fascinated by this case.

Anyway maybe this is a bit redundant but I'd like to also put forth that she was on the 15th floor.

I think that the lights on many of the elevator buttons were not working properly. Watching the video very closely, keep your eyes on the elevator button panel at around 3.10. When the door opens about halfway, you will see the faint 14th floor button on the panel turn off. And of course as you can see the lights turn off one by one as the elevator descends.

If the photo from yelp is still accurate and nothing happens in the bits of footage that has been omitted

http://www.yelp.com.au/biz_photos/c...-OWLhagZg5E7tpXwXfn8Fw#8WRRjdNxuSdkRLmwF7csdQ

You will see that she must have pressed at least all of the center row floor buttons. The dim lights also accounts for how she went crazy pushing a bunch of buttons the second time around but only a few actually look lit up.





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Bingo! I was wondering what that last button she pushed was and it's the Door Hold button. Hold button: This button delays the door closing timer, useful for loading freight and hospital beds.

I'll bet that's why the doors didn't close. They were on a delay timer for loading freight.

ETA: Thank you for the picture. It was driving me crazy.

 

[cluciano63]

Could you be thinking of Ambien? There have been several posts mentioning it.

Sorry...I guess it did not click, or I missed some posts. It may be Ambien I am thinking of.

 

[Indy Anna]

Hi, I joined the forum to post something that hadn't been mentioned yet. There's this youtube comment:

Elisa Lam was a SMART girl. POLICE NEED TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THE TIPS SHE GAVE IN THIS VIDEO.i believe she is using sign language to communicate with the camera. She has signed key words of "computer" "friend" "capture". Get a sign language expert to watch this. Find out what else she is saying from 1:55 onwards... FIND OUT WHY SHE WAS IN LA, WHO SHE WAS MEETING (an online friend?) CHECK HER COMPUTER HISTORY AND ACTIVITY. THE PERSON WHO KILLED HER WAS SOMEONE SHE WAS MEETING.


I noticed that several people said the same thing. I don't know sign language, but I was able to figure out that she does say "friend." Check out the video below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrH2ZfCyJDo&feature=youtu.be

Now compare it to the Elisa video at 2:10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM&feature=youtu.be

If that's accurate, then she said "friend" "computer" "capture."

I took American Sign Language (ASL) many years ago. In the video, I kept thinking that one of the gestures Elisa made -- placing one index finger over the other and then vice versa -- looked very familiar. I looked for my sign language book the other day, but I'm not sure where it is. I kept doing that motion over and over, trying to remember. Now that you mention it here, I remember that it's the sign for "friend." I'll look some more for my sign language book.

 

[Robert White]

In regards to this specific action which is involving the rotation of hands and index fingers, it is quite popular between certain ethnic groups in Vancouver when I was living there. I looked for pictures for detail, but I can't find what I am looking for.

People have noted it looks to be counting, however I find extremely comparable to this distinct action mentioned above.

Has anyone else with Asian culture experience/immersion noticed this?

At first I couldn't place it, and I wasn't in agreement with the "counting"/sign language theory, then it dawned on me that it was similar to the gesture.

It doesn't mean anything at all to the case, but it at least could nullify one less speculation.

 

[canadiansleuth]

I personally don't believe that Elisa's behavior in the elevator had to do anything with her ethnicity/culture, just my two cents.

 

[Indy Anna]

Bingo! I was wondering what that last button she pushed was and it's the Door Hold button. Hold button: This button delays the door closing timer, useful for loading freight and hospital beds.

I'll bet that's why the doors didn't close. They were on a delay timer for loading freight.

ETA: Thank you for the picture. It was driving me crazy.

This was Tarabull's theory in the previous thread. I couldn't tell in the video if Elisa punched the buttons all the way down, or only the numbered buttons, which lit up. That would delay the door closing, so it's possible. But, the second time she goes into the elevator, I think she finds the "door close" button and presses it repeatedly. That's why, I think, she steps outside the elevator again after pressing the buttons. Still, nothing is happening. If she did press the "door hold" button, I wonder if pressing the "door close" button would cancel it. Maybe not. I think she was anxious to get off that floor and was expecting a quick retreat via the elevator. When it failed, I think she seemed unsure whether the safest place to be was inside the elevator, or outside the elevator.

 

[kunibob]

In regards to specifically the highlighted area:

I've discussed the dynamics of fight or flight (simplified), as well as thoughts in regards to individual threat levels and assessments. I have argued that given this, people typically do not confine themselves (ie. elevator vs. optional routes).

But let us assume that Elisa was in such a mindset took the first available route to her. If we go on the theory that you presented that she was knowledgeable in her tail, we would see some evidence in defensive posture, which shows no matter how trained you are (ie. raised shoulders, balled fists, or pressed to the corner immediately).

Instead what we see is that she took her time in pressing buttons, then stood centre-bottom of the elevator, rather than corners. We can also see that she entered from the left, and if her adversary came from either left/right, she would have reacted with the farthest available corner. This did not occur.

Contrary again, is that she kept exiting the elevator. Under duress, we typically see individuals stay within a protected area. If she knew someone was out there, she wouldn't have escaped regardless. Control is based on the ability to inflict fear. I did not see any indicators that fear was present.

Either or, I enjoy our debate! Not trying to shut you down - we have our theories based on our professional/life experiences. I am also from Vancouver, but I am in various places now due to my work. Ps. I am not terribly older than you either!

I definitely agree that she isn't in fight or flight. However, to my eyes, her behaviour seems consistent with nervousness. It looks like what I'll call "oh great, that creepy guy again, ugh I hope he doesn't see me" rather than complete fear. ie: a bit of nervousness, but mixed with a desire to show confidence for self-defense and a bit of a playful personality thrown into her gestures to make it seem less offensive if he should spot her...

Oh dear, I'm not explaining this correctly. I read it as the sort of a self-defense mechanism that a lot of us smaller women have when we've been flirted with and aren't quite welcoming it. Kind of a "let's get out of this awkward situation without looking like I'm freaked out, because I don't want to offend or anger this person" reaction. Sometimes, when the panic sets in, you still act like you're normal, if a bit tense, because you don't want this person who is bigger and stronger than you to have any reason to hurt you. (I once gave a stranger at a bus stop my real number because I was panicking about how to get rid of him, and I was too freaked out to think of a fake one, so I blanked. On the outside, I was friendly, if a bit tense, but on the inside, I was a MESS! I must have seemed convincing enough about flirting back that he called me a few days later. :banghead: ) It's a self-defense by-product of our fear culture around sexual assault and other violence against women.

GAH, I don't think I'm explaining this well at all.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I read the first part of the video as "trying to escape an awkward situation" (therefore, not flight-or-fight), but nervousness/confusion ramping up when the elevator wasn't moving, and perhaps talking to someone off-screen.

Her box-step makes me think she's getting more nervous, because I have a history of anxiety & OCD, and I dance like that when I'm nervous and trying not to be nervous...but that's definitely me seeing her through a filter of my own personality.

So I don't see it necessarily as "fight or flight" panic, but as "how do I get out of this" (milder) panic, especially at first.

However, I can also see pretty much every other interpretation mentioned in this thread, including the options where no one else is there. Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised by almost any of them... So many possible interpretations.

 

[LittleWing]

Bingo! I was wondering what that last button she pushed was and it's the Door Hold button. Hold button: This button delays the door closing timer, useful for loading freight and hospital beds.

I'll bet that's why the doors didn't close. They were on a delay timer for loading freight.

ETA: Thank you for the picture. It was driving me crazy.

You're welcome Shlock and Ghostwheel.

I believe in thread #1 the hold door button was already mentioned, so it seems very likely that it's her fault for the door not shutting.

Is it possible that, since she had to stoop so close to the buttons, she wasn't aware she pushed "hold door"?

Or if she was trying to hide from someone with the intention to pop out and scare them, she may have pressed the door hold button because they were on their way and she was waiting for them.

The more I watch, the more it seems she is trying to hide from someone, but it is playful. Personally, if I wanted to peer out the door to see if anyone is following me, I would not stick my head out like that and shake it to and fro drawing attention to me, but carefully peer.

The hopping motions etc seem very silly. So it seems that whoever she was with, if with somebody, she's not scared of them.

Another thing I noticed in the video around a couple seconds after the :32 mark and before she steps over to look again, it appears to me as though she is smiling or has her mouth open possibly saying something. Of course this could be an artifact but it very much looks like she's speaking.

Is it possible at the very end, since it seems that they are indeed on the 15th floor, someone said hey let's see if we can go out on the roof? Maybe they saw that the door was propped open or somesuch?



So why else would someone push that many different floor buttons......?

1. Throw someone off your track
2. To be cute
3. Can't remember which floor they're on
4. Going to another floor that they don't remember which by number, but by the look of the floor (like how floor 7 is orange).
5. Sleepwalking/drugged/psychotic episode


Let's break this down:

1. She's not acting all that scared if 1, so maybe the person just makes her a bit uneasy? If she pressed door hold, maybe pressing all those floor buttons also delays the door from closing? Is there something wrong with the elevator?

2. She's pressing rather slow to be intentionally cute....? And no one is there with her to see her being cute. Is she doing it for the camera? Doubt it.

3. If so, maybe she has taken something and her memory is fuzzy but this doesn't seem to be the case. Seems very intentional. or she couldn't see the buttons well enough so figured she might as well press them all and go from there?

4. I suppose this is possible....?

5. I'm not really at a place to give an informed opinion on this possibility.

This brings up, again, the issue of her glasses. Does she need them all the time?(peering very close, steadying herself could imply so but might also imply blurred vision and instability from any number if substances).If so, why does she not have them? Either she forgot them (I wear glasses all the time but take them off for bed and sometimes forget to put them on), she left them somewhere, someone took them, they broke, she wears contacts, or she doesn't need them all the time.

This could support the ambien theory that she was loopy or sleepwalking as why would she stop to put her glasses on before wandering off in a haze?

Curiouser and curiouser!




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[Canine]

Hi all! I'm new to this thread but I've been lurking all the way through.

I think her behaviour in the elevator seems pretty consistent with people who are new to being high.

I think the toxicology reports will likely reveal something in her system.

Is it possible that the ME could have determined she drowned but they want to figure out what was in her system before they jump to any conclusions?

Growing up in the 90s when LSD was very popular I saw lots of people behave like this. I also know two people who died thinking they could fly and swim across a river at night respectively.

So, maybe she experimented and something went very wrong?

 

[flexiblehawk]

There are hotels, and then there are places like this one. If you're from out of town, chances are really good you don't want to be there. I've been a fish out of water myself, it looks a lot like the footage. You try to fit in, you know you can't, but you just.. do what you can. I don't see any drug usage, I see someone trying to make the best of her stay and talk, look and act her way out of.. something. Okay, maybe bipolar or some issue she has, and an adventure she should not have undertaken, but not something she expected and certainly not a weird hallucinogenic suicide attempt. More like a huge series of bad decisions with honest good intentions.

But at this point, at the video's point, she knows she's in a shady town, and she's in a bad way..

Why is she up on that floor? Something took hold of her mentally, or maybe something simple, like she has to pee? Doesn't matter, she's there. Real bad, but she must confront the gaze she's met. You don't hide in an elevator corner in a seedy hotel unless shrapnel, or, danger, is near, and coming at you.

I also see someone very stressed about where she is and how she "got there". "How did I get here? What's happening?" Someone sees her and she's talking, she's not in the right place and by this time she ABSOLUTELY knows it and is trying to talk her way into safety. She can't fit in though.. she was lured in to the general area by her hopes and dreams, but unfortunately now she's snagged... her issues have caught up, she wasn't able to properly predict this, and despite the efforts, these were the last few minutes.

Elisa did not pick the right place to go, and she was in a place she should not have been, in a bad neighborhood, in a hotel that "bad guys" hole up for months at a time for cheap. And she tried to work through it, but they saw right through her. Easy pickins.

Weird behavior, no glasses, button pushing, in and out of the elevator, I don't think this was camera gesturing or an overwhelming drug despite the strangeness, I think it was a series of bad decisions, that led her to have no choice but to defend herself, in a "please.. PLEASE help me talk my way out of this" kind of way, and unfortunately it failed.

 

[Indy Anna]

I definitely agree that she isn't in fight or flight. However, to my eyes, her behaviour seems consistent with nervousness. It looks like what I'll call "oh great, that creepy guy again, ugh I hope he doesn't see me" rather than complete fear. ie: a bit of nervousness, but mixed with a desire to show confidence for self-defense and a bit of a playful personality thrown into her gestures to make it seem less offensive if he should spot her...

Oh dear, I'm not explaining this correctly. I read it as the sort of a self-defense mechanism that a lot of us smaller women have when we've been flirted with and aren't quite welcoming it. Kind of a "let's get out of this awkward situation without looking like I'm freaked out, because I don't want to offend or anger this person" reaction. Sometimes, when the panic sets in, you still act like you're normal, if a bit tense, because you don't want this person who is bigger and stronger than you to have any reason to hurt you. (I once gave a stranger at a bus stop my real number because I was panicking about how to get rid of him, and I was too freaked out to think of a fake one, so I blanked. On the outside, I was friendly, if a bit tense, but on the inside, I was a MESS! I must have seemed convincing enough about flirting back that he called me a few days later. :banghead: ) It's a self-defense by-product of our fear culture around sexual assault and other violence against women.

GAH, I don't think I'm explaining this well at all.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I read the first part of the video as "trying to escape an awkward situation" (therefore, not flight-or-fight), but nervousness/confusion ramping up when the elevator wasn't moving, and perhaps talking to someone off-screen.

Her box-step makes me think she's getting more nervous, because I have a history of anxiety & OCD, and I dance like that when I'm nervous and trying not to be nervous...but that's definitely me seeing her through a filter of my own personality.

So I don't see it necessarily as "fight or flight" panic, but as "how do I get out of this" (milder) panic, especially at first.

However, I can also see pretty much every other interpretation mentioned in this thread, including the options where no one else is there. Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised by almost any of them... So many possible interpretations.

I, too, interpret Elisa's reactions as nervousness. I'm also petite and shy, so I tend to be cautious about offending people. There have been times, like you, I'm afraid I've given someone too much information, or I begin to and then catch myself. I can also put on a bold front when I feel threatened. In the previous thread, I posted about an experience I had when I went to see a movie in a university auditorium and felt threatened by a male student who sat next to me.

After viewing the video again to study Elisa's hand movements, I decided that she's not signing "friend" after all. But, that's the sign it reminded me of. I think she's just wringing and stretching her fingers and hands in nervousness at that point. And I think her bending her knees is also an indication of nervousness because she's just wanting to get off that floor, and she's frustrated that the elevator isn't moving. The hand and arm movements, though, are mystifying.

 

[ceefry23]

Does anyone know if there are washrooms on every floor? I read about communal bathrooms and am curious if Elisa might have gone to use a washroom that was possibly on another floor and on the way back to the 4th floor ended up on the 14th floor due to her poor vision.

Or

Also I'm starting to think she was in a room with a guy that she didnt want to have sex with. Decided it was time to leave and when she enters the lift she hears a door close or someone calling her and is worried it's guy coming after her. Perhaps he accuses her of theft and forces her back to his room after assuring her the elevator isn't going to work.

I mention the theft accusation because I believe someone does search her pockets as someone suggested earlier.

 

[LittleWing]

I really don't believe that she was on the 14th floor. I could be wrong but here are a couple screen caps I took.

The first is of the floor Elisa is on. Note my red arrows, indicating the bottom of a wall light (top arrow) and a spot on the floor where 4 tile corners meet:

The second is of the next floor going down, which, as I indicated in a previous post, seems to be floor 14.

Note the differences - no wall light and now there is a black tile where the four tile corners meet, where many screenshots I took of the floor elisa was on showed there wasn't in that particular spot on the floor on that level.

Watch the video at the 3.12 mark carefully. Watch the panel of lights. You will clearly see that a faint light on the top turns off once the elevator door opens about halfway.

In this photo, again, you can see the topmost center button is floor 14.

http://www.yelp.com.au/biz_photos/c...-OWLhagZg5E7tpXwXfn8Fw#8WRRjdNxuSdkRLmwF7csdQ

When he first enters the elevator, the pushes 7 buttons. She pushes every button in the center row. The second time she pushes buttons, it seems she's pushing others as well though it's hard to tell.

Now here are two photos of floor 15.

Note the wall lights. That being said, it's possible there were wall lights on the other floor but installed higher up so unable to see. But this implies that there is at least a strong possibility that she is on level 15.



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[ceefry23]

I'm also starting to think that she isn't talking to a second person and she's actually just being told not to look at her attacker.

 

[PPB15]

Hello, first time poster.. Best to everyone here, I appreciate your compassion, dedication, curiosity and communal good will.

I have not yet read every single page here, so apologies if this sounds repetitive or naive, but did anyone speculate that she may have been drowned in her room? If so, a clever way to dispose of the body would be in those tanks. Any other way (i.e. throwing the body off the building), the autopsy would find it odd that there was water in the lungs. Wasn't there some ruckus/loud noise reported near her room from below and a transient plumbing issue?

The other night I read many of her tumblr passages back into early December. She had a lovely active mind and was a restless soul, as we all may be, and recent events seemed to have frayed a bit of her insulation. In the "So far this year I have" list she crossed off "seen a therapist" and "was prescribed medication". I'm not sure this is relevant except in so far as she may have been more vulnerable to becoming a victim if she were in fact bipolar; or even if (in her own words) had a tendency to offend people (she laments her loud mouth/opinionated style).

Luckycat7 also paints a haunting picture of not only the neighborhood but a certain kind of security guard culture she would have been entrusted to (at the mercy of)...

Her behavior is odd indeed in the elevator. I haven't really examined it wrt how much has been edited out (and where are the other parts, as someone asked- did she take the stairs to get up there?). She very well could be engaged in some kind of alternate reality (organic or chemical pychosis), or perhaps she is sober but creeped out, in a paranoid doubt loop; wondering whether her sense of being followed was all in her mind, alternately scared and self-calming/playful at the same time as if to reassure herself. Her gestures may be re-enacting an episode that just happened (creepy person knocks on her door, acts polite but suspicious to her). I don't know, this may be a stretch. But mainly her behavior is childlike, whatever that implies-- if the person in that video was 5 or 6 it would be normal behaviorial fantasy. Even if she is high on something, that would not be reason alone for her death.

In any of those potential states of mind, she may have gotten herself into, or was unable to get out of, a bad situation with a bad person.
Do we know whether she was clothed or naked for sure? Were those the clothes she was found in? Did they find the room key in her pocket? The perp would have had a good chance to clean up any evidence in the room. It is almost inconceivable that she could have, of her own volition (and this is comlicated question) gotten to the roof (not setting off alarms), climbed up there, and chose to squeeze into a dark hole. Inconceivable, almost.
The only other thing I can possibly see happening is that she was or became so convinced/paranoid that someone was following her and eventually went out onto the fire escape, up to the roof-- and perhaps at that point the tanks looked like the best or the only hiding place. Why not just call police? Lost cellphone! Or tell security? They were the ones creeping her out! And possibly could destroy other video evidence.

So my thoughts are either someone tracked her back to her room, killed her by drowning. Disposed of the body in a clever way that would look like an accident.

Or someone creeped her out so much at her room, possibly security itself (who'd have a key so she couldn't just lock them out), who may have gone away for a while. She slipped out but eventually became desperate enough to end up on the roof, thinking the best place to hide would be the water tanks, since she couldn't go down. Someone on security staff, former security, long time boarder with tight connections to certain security guards. In this scenario, part of her elevator behavior is from an earlier chapter that evening, at that point still trying to tame internal demons.

Sorry for the rambling, it is late, and someone may have covered these ideas already.

 

[LittleWing]

Another thing regarding the tracking or cadaver dogs and her body in the cistern.....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if elisa was carried and put into the cistern, is it not plausible that she would not have left a scent if the perp was very careful? Of course we know not if tracking or cadaver dogs were used, but one would assume that the dogs would have been exposed to her scent by the police.

Of course because of the difficulty of carrying a body whether up and through a propped open main door or fire escape, it's likely her body would have touched the stairs, railings etc so the dogs would've smelled her. So if these dogs were cadaver dogs instead, unable to smell her, it would appear that the cistern was very well sealed and her scent was simply locked inside.


I think it's very likely this was more than one person.

Also, it is possible that whoever did this may have been on something, and this made it easier for them to carry and lift Elisa. Certain drugs give people extra adrenaline which makes them exert their muscles more...

http://training.fitness.com/martial...s-street-drugs-making-you-stronger-39492.html

A few years ago my apartment on the second story was broken into by a druggie who managed to climb the outside of the building like freaking Spider-Man and gained access through the balcony. Scary scary stuff.


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[ceefry23]

Nice observations. Perhaps she was drowned before hand but I don't think the body in the water tank is all that clever. To me it screams murder. Also I think she's on the 14th or 15th floor there and if I'm not mistaken her room was on the 4th floor.

Hiding in the tank is an interesting thought but only viable to me if she was having a severe psychotic episode. I think if It was me and I was scared for my life or possessions I'd be running for the front desk.

I agree that security should be suspect. Possibly a bell boy or hotel employee.

That elevator stays open for 3 minutes with it only trying to close once early on. That to me is the weirdest part.

 

[LittleWing]

Hello, first time poster.. Best to everyone here, I appreciate your compassion, dedication, curiosity and communal good will.

I have not yet read every single page here, so apologies if this sounds repetitive or naive, but did anyone speculate that she may have been drowned in her room? If so, a clever way to dispose of the body would be in those tanks. Any other way (i.e. throwing the body off the building), the autopsy would find it odd that there was water in the lungs. Wasn't there some ruckus/loud noise reported near her room from below and a transient plumbing issue?

The other night I read many of her tumblr passages back into early December. She had a lovely active mind and was a restless soul, as we all may be, and recent events seemed to have frayed a bit of her insulation. In the "So far this year I have" list she crossed off "seen a therapist" and "was prescribed medication". I'm not sure this is relevant except in so far as she may have been more vulnerable to becoming a victim if she were in fact bipolar; or even if (in her own words) had a tendency to offend people (she laments her loud mouth/opinionated style).

Luckycat7 also paints a haunting picture of not only the neighborhood but a certain kind of security guard culture she would have been entrusted to (at the mercy of)...

Her behavior is odd indeed in the elevator. I haven't really examined it wrt how much has been edited out (and where are the other parts, as someone asked- did she take the stairs to get up there?). She very well could be engaged in some kind of alternate reality (organic or chemical pychosis), or perhaps she is sober but creeped out, in a paranoid doubt loop; wondering whether her sense of being followed was all in her mind, alternately scared and self-calming/playful at the same time as if to reassure herself. Her gestures may be re-enacting an episode that just happened (creepy person knocks on her door, acts polite but suspicious to her). I don't know, this may be a stretch. But mainly her behavior is childlike, whatever that implies-- if the person in that video was 5 or 6 it would be normal behaviorial fantasy. Even if she is high on something, that would not be reason alone for her death.

In any of those potential states of mind, she may have gotten herself into, or was unable to get out of, a bad situation with a bad person.
Do we know whether she was clothed or naked for sure? Were those the clothes she was found in? Did they find the room key in her pocket? The perp would have had a good chance to clean up any evidence in the room. It is almost inconceivable that she could have, of her own volition (and this is comlicated question) gotten to the roof (not setting off alarms), climbed up there, and chose to squeeze into a dark hole. Inconceivable, almost.
The only other thing I can possibly see happening is that she was or became so convinced/paranoid that someone was following her and eventually went out onto the fire escape, up to the roof-- and perhaps at that point the tanks looked like the best or the only hiding place. Why not just call police? Lost cellphone! Or tell security? They were the ones creeping her out! And possibly could destroy other video evidence.

So my thoughts are either someone tracked her back to her room, killed her by drowning. Disposed of the body in a clever way that would look like an accident.

Or someone creeped her out so much at her room, possibly security itself (who'd have a key so she couldn't just lock them out), who may have gone away for a while. She slipped out but eventually became desperate enough to end up on the roof, thinking the best place to hide would be the water tanks, since she couldn't go down. Someone on security staff, former security, long time boarder with tight connections to certain security guards. In this scenario, part of her elevator behavior is from an earlier chapter that evening, at that point still trying to tame internal demons.

Sorry for the rambling, it is late, and someone may have covered these ideas already.

Very interesting points!

Btw welcome, I'm new here too you obviously must share the same compassion as we do for trying to put pieces together hd find out hat happened to the poor girl

As for the noise heard by the neighbor. It could also be a case of "things seeming significant after the fact". In a place like this with what would seem to be quite an assortment of shady characters, I imagine noises etc would be quite common. Of course maybe they're not!

As for the flooding water.....maybe something that shouldn't be flushed was? Unrelated? Or related to the perp/s? This sounds horrible but possibly flushing a prophylactic down the toilet....?


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