CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[SCHMAE]

Oh I see. Well that I don't have.
It's all theory right.

If we can't speculate than what's the point of this forum? Only to post the same evidence over and over and over?

By her own words, she took 3 to 5 prescribed pills daily so I don't think it's outside reality to say she took ' pills' that night. moooooo

 

[jon999]

If she went to the roof and entered the water tank of her own free will, then it seems like her fingerprints should be all over the place, regardless of whether she used the fire escape or the stairs.

She would need to climb metal or aluminum ladders to get onto the tank, leaving prints all over those ladders. Her palm prints would be on the top of the tank imprinted by her body weight as she lowered herself into the tank.

It did rain in Los Angeles between the time she went missing and the time they found her, but I found this article written by a Crime Scene Investigator http://www.helium.com/items/212484-crime-scene-investigations-latent-fingerprint-processing-from-crime-scenes, which says,

Good point. And maybe her fingerprints were all over the place. That would explain why LE was pushing the accidental death angle.

 

[jash]

<snipped>

Still looking for photos of Elisa beyond the 5 released. Still looking for evidence of her body being removed from the hotel.

RSBM -- Apologies if I'm misunderstanding what you're looking for, but back in a previous thread, LittleWing posted this photo which appears to show them removing EL's body (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/23/udebama7.jpg). If you meant actually leaving the hotel through the doors to a coroner's van or ambulance or something, I haven't seen that either.

As for the photos of her, are you including those released by the Chinese media in your count? http://www.iask.ca/news/canada/2013/0223/184354.html (originally posted by californiared3).

 

[jetsetsam]

Look closely at this picture. Zoom in if you can.

There is not a syphon mechanism to draw the water out from the top.

There is muck all over the bottom, which means the outlet is not in the base of the tank.

At about 8 oclock on the circle, there looks to be an outlet, slightly obscured by the fibreglass coating of the tank.

The outlet is above the base of the tank, which would be quite normal, so that the muck at the bottom of the tank doesn't get drawn out of the tank and plug pipes or dirty the water.

In the videos, you can see the firemen walking on pipes at the base of the tanks. That would be the network of outlet pipes.

 

[Sillybilly]

that would be me. And there is always a little current to the outlet when water flows out of the tank. And the time, the body has negative buoyancy depends on a lot of factors, for example, what she ate the hours before death, whether she suffered from frequent flatulence, her body volume per se. Water temperature is only one factor and we can assume, due to the season, that water was freaking cold.
Another little bit of trivia, water with halogenes in it (for example chlorine and fluoride, the Group 17 elements), produces a little higher buoyancy for bodies swimming in it and also, due to their sometimes a little "etchy" qualities tend to induce decomposition like effects. I know, in the US, a lot of drinking water is "enriched" with chlorine/fluorides. Anyone knows for LA?

I brought that up wrt the outlet in Thread 1, but another WSr posted that the outlet is not on the bottom of the tank, but partially up the side (just can't recall how far up, if it was mentioned, and i'd be hard-pressed to find that post).

 

[Qrious]

We cannot assume she is Christian or has read those verses in the Bible (or has even attempted to read the Bible). Your theory would depend on whether she was Christian or at least, was aware of or read those bible verses you mentioned.

Yes, I am fully aware of that. As I've said, the scenario is just a possibility. I just found it hard to think that those numbers that she kept pressing have no significance. Perhaps someone else can come out with another possibility.

 

[Sillybilly]

If she went to the roof and entered the water tank of her own free will, then it seems like her fingerprints should be all over the place, regardless of whether she used the fire escape or the stairs.

She would need to climb metal or aluminum ladders to get onto the tank, leaving prints all over those ladders. Her palm prints would be on the top of the tank imprinted by her body weight as she lowered herself into the tank.

It did rain in Los Angeles between the time she went missing and the time they found her, but I found this article written by a Crime Scene Investigator http://www.helium.com/items/212484-crime-scene-investigations-latent-fingerprint-processing-from-crime-scenes, which says,

Come to think of it, I'm thinking that the black marks beside the hatch opening that i previously referred to as "scuff" marks are more likely fingerprint dust.

 

[Marlon]

We cannot assume she is Christian or has read those verses in the Bible (or has even attempted to read the Bible). Your theory would depend on whether she was Christian or at least, was aware of or read those bible verses you mentioned.

However... What we do know is that she mentions going to an organic farm in her thumbler. A vegan farm where people can work volluntary. Now,.. Im just puzzeling and not accusing but,... Little research tells that there are vegan farms through out california ("south central farmers" in L.A for example) that are sponsered by this cultish religious movement named Quan yin Method" founded by a lady called Ching Hai SUpreme MAster who has a background of catholic/buddist. This cult even has vegan restaurants through out the US also in LA, close by the Cecil.

It adds up easily
I like to explore everything

 

[dotr]

It's an interesting theory but I think it's far-feched. A strange coincidence in my opinion. Not to mention she starts with 14 instead of 4.

I think the possible reasons she's pushing those buttons are (from most likely to least likely):

1. She's sleepwalking/on drugs/hallucinating/etc.
2. She's blind without her glasses and can't see the numbers, but she remembers her floor number is in the middle row.
3. She's playing a game of tag/hide-and-seek.
4. She's holding the elevator to prevent someone from using it.
5. She's just wandering around the hotel with no real goal.
6. It's some sort of code.

May I suggest that the elevator was mistaken for a phone booth and EL is "dialling " numbers on a phone.

Or rather than E" listening " for sounds- she is actually mesmorized by, or observing all the lights on the elevator panel and the reflections of light scattered on floors, ceilings, mirrors...

 

[Sillybilly]

Yes, I am fully aware of that. As I've said, the scenario is just a possibility. I just found it hard to think that those numbers that she kept pressing have no significance. Perhaps someone else can come out with another possibility.

Hi Qrious, and Welcome !!

Anything is possible, but I'm more inclined to think that, as a single female who had done some travelling, her pressing all those buttons is more in line with her maybe having read articles wrt safety in elevators (as posted earlier by another WSr).

JMO

 

[Marlon]

Link

From the FAQ page on this quan yin cult homepage:

Q: Master, Why is it seeing light and hearing sounds so important in
meditation?

M: Because that is our own real self. Light and sound is the
manifestation of our wisdom inside, which is invisible to our eyes and
ears. Hearing the sound doesn't mean you hear with the ears. Seeing the
light doesn't mean you see with eyes. It's just the inside awareness of
your own self, of your own glorious nature, that we are light; that we
are a beautiful melody and that we are not the body. And the more you
hear of this invisible, inaudible sound, the more you'll see this
invisible light or heaven, the wiser you'll become; the more loving
you'll become; the more satisfaction you'll gain; and the more
efficient you will be to serve the world.

Invisible light.... Agency,..uhummmm

 

[FutzBucket]

Aha! That temperature graph makes perfect sense!

The man immediatly took her to the roof, made her climb into the tank, he followed, stuck his gun in the tank and fired, but missed. He then closed and latched the lid and left her inside.

She took off her clothes to better swim (clogging the water), but eventually died of hypothermia. The water kept her body cool for the first half of the month, slowing decay.

Then, in the middle of the month, the temperature rose. This quickened the decay process, and it was about this time the water started getting really nasty.

I knew it. She was in the tank the whole time.

 

[anansie]

However... What we do know is that she mentions going to an organic farm in her thumbler. A vegan farm where people can work volluntary. Now,.. Im just puzzeling and not accusing but,... Little research tells that there are vegan farms through out california ("south central farmers" in L.A for example) that are sponsered by this cultish religious movement named Quan yin Method" founded by a lady called Ching Hai SUpreme MAster who has a background of catholic/buddist. This cult even has vegan restaurants through out the US also in LA, close by the Cecil.

It adds up easily
I like to explore everything

Well we need to know more about this cult and its teachings then. Do they teach verses from the Bible? Do Catholics have a Bible that differs in content from other Christian denominations? Does the cult have its own Bible written by the founder or such? Adding a religious context certainly throws up more questions to answer, because this is not some orthodox religion, not even an orthodox Christian or Buddhist sect. Who is to say that the followers are told to read your standard KJV/ NIV/etc. Bible (which is where these verses mentioned were from presumably)?

Also, has Elisa ever alluded to any religious or spiritual thoughts in any of her social media/blog writings? It seems to me she hasn't. You'd think that someone who is that into a religion or has religious leanings would say more about it in her blogs and posts. In my experience, religious people usually do. Even if some of them don't go on abouti their faith at length, they would normally give it away somehow by saying Amen, God Bless, or any of that sort of thing. So far all the blog posts written by her that has been discussed does not seem to contain a trace of this.

Me personally, I doubt she was going there for any religious purpose.

She may be going to a farm owned by someone who is religious, but she does not seem to be drawn to it because of that. I think its just a coincidence that she picked a farm to visit that is in sunny CA and is green/ethical but happens to be owned or sponsored by a religious cult leader. Maybe she wasn't even really aware of the religious leanings of the leader. Maybe it didn't bother her either way as long as it was a green/ethical farm in sunny CA.

But yeah I get that some think she may have been killed by this cult or something for some symbolic reason. I don't know what to think of that, to be honest. Its another theory. But I highly doubt she knowingly allowed herself to be killed or used by a cult.

 

[smash the stack]

If she went to the roof and entered the water tank of her own free will, then it seems like her fingerprints should be all over the place, regardless of whether she used the fire escape or the stairs.

She would need to climb metal or aluminum ladders to get onto the tank, leaving prints all over those ladders. Her palm prints would be on the top of the tank imprinted by her body weight as she lowered herself into the tank.

It did rain in Los Angeles between the time she went missing and the time they found her, but I found this article written by a Crime Scene Investigator http://www.helium.com/items/212484-crime-scene-investigations-latent-fingerprint-processing-from-crime-scenes, which says,

I was actually wondering if the "scuffs" on the tank people pointed out were actually black dust from LE taking fingerprints?

 

[skyfitsheaven]

With all due respect, I don't think Elisa was typing in a code that references bible verses. More than likely, she was pressing multiple buttons to get out of there as soon as possible. More and more, I think she was waiting for someone in the elevator to join her, and they didn't because of the cameras. They could have then convinced her to go up to the roof. Whether or not she was on the 14th or 15th floor, that would have been easy from either.

People have said that sometimes there are squatters in the maintenance room upstairs, maybe she hid out there and then met her death. I'm still having a hard time believing she ever made it into that water tank on her own.

 

[jetsetsam]

Futzbucket; your quite taken by a gunshot as an explanation of the loud noise that knocked Mr. Diaz out of his bed.

I posted this earlier.

It's a more likely explanation than a gunshot.

I lived through the noise several times. It was really LOUD! Like a bomb going off.

"About the big noise that Mr. Diaz heard that knocked him out of his bed:

I used to live on the top floor of a 15 storey building, and there were occasional problems with the water system where an air bubble would get locked in the pipes because it wasn't vented properly at the roof.

The vacuum of drawing the water down from the rooftop tank would extend the air bubble until it was released with an incredible bang that scared the **** out of me when it happened. It really was enough to knock me out of my bed. And burst the pipes and cause flooding below.

When Elisa's body was put into the tank, it would have sunk and blocked the outlet in the bottom of the tank because the draw of the water would pull the body to block the outlet, creating a vacuum situation in the pipe below.

When the vacuum situation finally does let go, it would be enough to knock Mr. Diaz out of his bed, guaranteed because I lived through it myself.

The outlet to the tank is not in the bottom. Thats why you can see all the redish material at the bottom. It's in the side of the tank, near the bottom so that muck at the bottom of the tank doesn't go down the pipe and block it."

 

[LaborDayRN]

Aha! That temperature graph makes perfect sense!

The man immediatly took her to the roof, made her climb into the tank, he followed, stuck his gun in the tank and fired, but missed. He then closed and latched the lid and left her inside.

She took off her clothes to better swim (clogging the water), but eventually died of hypothermia. The water kept her body cool for the first half of the month, slowing decay.

Then, in the middle of the month, the temperature rose. This quickened the decay process, and it was about this time the water started getting really nasty.

I knew it. She was in the tank the whole time.

Respectfully BBM: It seems to me that if a gun was fired inside the tank, there would be evidence of that and LE wouldn't have stated that foul play was not suspected at this time. Also, I don't believe it's ever been found that a lid was or wasn't in place, never mind latched.

 

[jon999]

May I suggest that the elevator was mistaken for a phone booth and EL is "dialling " numbers on a phone.

Or rather than E" listening " for sounds- she is actually mesmorized by, or observing all the lights on the elevator panel and the reflections of light scattered on floors, ceilings, mirrors...

The fact that she's pushing all the buttons of a single column, in the order they appear, and then stops, tells me that it's more about the column then the numbers.

She doesn't seem all that fascinated by the pannel. Once all the middle column buttons have been pushed, she backs off and waits for the door to close.

Hi Qrious, and Welcome !!

Anything is possible, but I'm more inclined to think that, as a single female who had done some travelling, her pressing all those buttons is more in line with her maybe having read articles wrt safety in elevators (as posted earlier by another WSr).

JMO

I forgot about that one. it's indeed one of the most likely explanations.

 

[FutzBucket]

Futzbucket; your quite taken by a gunshot as an explanation of the loud noise that knocked Mr. Diaz out of his bed.

I posted this earlier.

It's a more likely explanation than a gunshot.

I lived through the noise several times. It was really LOUD! Like a bomb going off.

"About the big noise that Mr. Diaz heard that knocked him out of his bed:

I used to live on the top floor of a 15 storey building, and there were occasional problems with the water system where an air bubble would get locked in the pipes because it wasn't vented properly at the roof.

The vacuum of drawing the water down from the rooftop tank would extend the air bubble until it was released with an incredible bang that scared the **** out of me when it happened. It really was enough to knock me out of my bed. And burst the pipes and cause flooding below.

When Elisa's body was put into the tank, it would have sunk and blocked the outlet in the bottom of the tank because the draw of the water would pull the body to block the outlet, creating a vacuum situation in the pipe below.

When the vacuum situation finally does let go, it would be enough to knock Mr. Diaz out of his bed, guaranteed because I lived through it myself.

The outlet to the tank is not in the bottom. Thats why you can see all the redish material at the bottom. It's in the side of the tank, near the bottom so that muck at the bottom of the tank doesn't go down the pipe and block it."

If I understand you correctly, you're saying the inclusion of the mass the size of Elisa would cause a vacuum bubble that would cause the noise in Mr. Diaz room? Hmm.

Well, he just marched her into the tank and closed her in and went back to his room.

 

[skyfitsheaven]

The offenders that have popped up in the media don't seem like likely suspects to me. One is 89 and the other seems to be just as elderly. Why would Elisa talk to these men, and how would they get her up into the tank? I imagine these guys spend most of their time in their rooms or in several fixed spots in the neighborhood.

Now, if it is true that some of the long term residents have had their relatives illegally living there (and I'm sure this is happening), then that is something to be looked into for sure. There would be no trace of them on the hotel books and given the amount of kids that stay there, they could be in and out undetected by anyone.

Just a thought.