CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

[bakergurl]

So what if toxicology does not show anything?
I was thinking about it tonight. Then it will be one of those mysteries.
I don't believe for a minute that they don't have additional camera footage.

 

[Xavier]

Yesterday, in fact, on CNN an anchor was reading the story and stumbled because she said the body was found face down. Then she backed up and made a big deal of correcting herself to say, "the body was found floating face up near the top of the tank".
Now, if I throw in the discrepancies over the appearance of the water, every time it's been shown, whether coming out of the faucet, or running out of a drainpipe into the street, the water was clear. Now when people are just talking about the water, it's black and smelly and disgusting, except the fireman (who came instead of police who I personally have not seen in any video or photo investigating the scene yet), do not behave as if they are gagging in any way or having any problems at all dealing with what the hotel
"witnesses" have described. This is how rumors get started and people start thinking she was never found in any water tank, at all.

So we are supposed to be believing every word quoted in the MSM here?

Hound -- Very true, thanks for the post

Let's hope this crime gets solved, I do think it's a murder and very possible a CopyCat murder

Pray for the Lam family, their friends, it's awful their little girl went off on a big adventure expecting awesome experiences and is the victim of this horrible death, probably at the hands of some crazy demon who's likely walking the streets now in someone's neighborhood

 

[houndstooth]

So what if toxicology does not show anything?
I was thinking about it tonight. Then it will be one of those mysteries.
I don't believe for a minute that they don't have additional camera footage.

Yes, and how did they remove her body from the roof. Too small for a helicopter to land.
Does that mean they rolled her into one of the elevators and down to the lobby and out the front door?

You know I don't think I've heard or read anything about that.

It's amazing that the helicopters have breaking news and they go to the local live anchor to show all those firemen up there on the roof or one non-uniformed guy standing on top of a tank for a photo op for no apparent reason. Never a photo of cops or a gurney, ambulance waiting, which would have been the real breaking news story.

 

[Borris]

There is a memorial placed at her parent's restaurant, Paul's Chinese Food in Burnaby. Maybe Elisa posted in some reviews??

Full-screen Chinese News Video about Memorial

 

[bakergurl]

Yes, and how did they remove her body from the roof. Too small for a helicopter to land.
Does that mean they rolled her into one of the elevators and down to the lobby and out the front door?

You know I don't think I've heard or read anything about that.

It's amazing that the helicopters have breaking news and they go to the local live anchor to show all those firemen up there on the roof or one non-uniformed guy standing on top of a tank for a photo op for no apparent reason. Never a photo of cops or a gurney, ambulance waiting, which would have been the real breaking news story.

That is a good point about how they got the body downstairs.
They kept showing the firefighters trying to get her out but didn't film the "money shot"
The body on the gurney.

I just realized I jut repeated everything you said lol sorry about that

 

[Conductor71]

Hi,

I just wanted to share this scientific forensic guide to Bodies from Water.

There seems to be some conflict over how the body was found, so I am reposting my link from earlier today. It reveals the difficulties of determining cause of death by drowning and gives physiological distinctions to help conclude if victim was dead prior to immersion.

Also, despite what the maintenance worker is said to have reported it is much more likely she was at the top of the tank due to build up of gasses inside the body. Just for the record, a corpse in water is alway floating face down.

This is all spelled out in the linked forensic guide.

 

[windbags]

So what if toxicology does not show anything?
I was thinking about it tonight. Then it will be one of those mysteries.
I don't believe for a minute that they don't have additional camera footage.

I don't believe its ever been asserted there wasn't more footage? They released the video they did because it was initially a missing person's case, and that was the last recorded video of her. Once the body was found it turned into a death investigation, and LE most likely doesn't have much to gain by releasing more footage to the public.

As much as we like to consider ourselves sleuths, it's LE's case to solve, not ours. They aren't obligated to release all of their evidence to us.

 

[Borris]

So what if toxicology does not show anything?
I was thinking about it tonight. Then it will be one of those mysteries.
I don't believe for a minute that they don't have additional camera footage.

It's not just toxicology, it's also pathology. They are sectioning the tissues into paper-thin slices and will be looking through them on a microscopic scale to help determine whether she died before or after entering the tank.

 

[noodled1]

Yes, and how did they remove her body from the roof. Too small for a helicopter to land.
Does that mean they rolled her into one of the elevators and down to the lobby and out the front door?

You know I don't think I've heard or read anything about that.

It's amazing that the helicopters have breaking news and they go to the local live anchor to show all those firemen up there on the roof or one non-uniformed guy standing on top of a tank for a photo op for no apparent reason. Never a photo of cops or a gurney, ambulance waiting, which would have been the real breaking news story.

They would have carried the body to the 15th floor then put her on a gurney and rolled her out.

I think the reason there's so few pics of police (I've seen a couple) is because the police don't call the news every time they come across a body, even in a high profile case. They want to do their jobs unobstructed.

If the media finds out from a tip or from somebody who picks it up on the scanner oh well they'll deal with it but they would much rather deal with things on their terms.

The fire department wasn't called in until 3 hours later after the police had worked the scene for possible clues if i'm not mistaken and i imagine they were only called in because the police needed a hole cut in the side of the tank.

 

[houndstooth]

There is a memorial placed at her parent's restaurant, Paul's Chinese Food in Burnaby. Maybe Elisa posted in some reviews??

Full-screen Chinese News Video about Memorial

Appears she wasn't well-known. Someone felt they needed to leave a news clipping to make sure people "knew" this was for Elisa Lam?

 

[houndstooth]

They would have carried the body to the 15th floor then put her on a gurney and rolled her out.

I think the reason there's so few pics of police (I've seen a couple) is because the police don't call the news every time they come across a body, even in a high profile case. They want to do their jobs unobstructed.

If the media finds out from a tip or from somebody who picks it up on the scanner oh well they'll deal with it but they would much rather deal with things on their terms.

The fire department wasn't called in until 3 hours later after the police had worked the scene for possible clues if i'm not mistaken and i imagine they were only called in because the police needed a hole cut in the side of the tank.

Yes, I suppose that's what they "would" have done as you so thougtfully pointed out.
But, the dreaded media missed the money shots because nobody thought to call them except they had the helo in the air at the wrong time, huh?

I guess that helo couldn't hang around to see if those 12 firemen got the hole cut, check back later to get a photo of the long missing Elisa Lam to be taken from the scene of what has been described on this thread as a case
that will be remembered for a 100 years. I am not one of them, though.
How many media outlets you reckon were covering this case?
You'd think they'd have one or two gawking in the lobby talking to the residents about all that icky water, again.

 

[Qrious]

Thanks for the video link! Really appreciate it. I think this is the first time I see a news channel actually reporting that an LAPD officer told them that Elisa was found nude, etc.

Okay for those who don't understand Chinese, let me translate the video for you (I won't go into the parts where the LAPD officer speaks, because you already understand English) :

The police suspect that Elisa may have been poisoned by narcotics, and they are awaiting toxicology reports to ascertain that.

The LAPD officer categorically stated to the reporter that Elisa was found completely nude, and the police think Elisa's clothes may have been sucked down the water pipes.

The officer says there are NO surveillance cameras outside of the elevator on the 14th floor and they have no more surveillance footage of her after that elevator video. He adds that the police are analysing the video of Elisa. They are hoping that any hotel guests or residents who were staying there when Elisa was, would come forward with more information about her if they had any kind of contact with her, or if they happened to have caught a video recording of her or something like that.

Now whether that means that LAPD were unable to retrieve Elisa's clothes, I don't know. What do people make of it?
Also there has been a lot of discussion on many forums about whether it is possible for her clothes to get sucked into the pipes or not. Well I'm none the wiser...

I am thinking if the clothes got sucked into the pipes, surely they would come out somewhere or got stuck somewhere thereby causing a choke wouldn't they? Because this is the water supply system, not the drainage system.

Also, I find it curious why the LAPD think the clothes got sucked into the pipes if they found the body "completely naked". What was it that made them come to the conclusion that she went in the tank with her clothes on?

Certain things just do not make sense in this very strange case. Hoping that someone can enlighten.

 

[Sillybilly]

... Just for the record, a corpse in water is alway floating face down.

<rsbm>

And therein lies confusion Conductor. Earlier in this case I posted a total of 3 links wrt the "classic drowning position" (being face down), but then came across the American Red Cross lifeguard manual which has a chart with one column referencing "face down" and the other "face up".

Sorry, I haven't had time to keep rummaging to find out why the discrepancies.

 

[Borris]

Is this EL's page: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/archive

IF it is I am curious as to who posted on her account TODAY. It's a picture of the Tarot card "The Hermit" which means (after a search because I am not into that stuff) ...

Maybe her "trip" was scheduled to end, hence, coming back to her normal life as The Hermit once again.

 

[AnotherCanuck]

there have been cases in the media (such as that shooting in Nuevo Vallarta awhile back) where Vancouver-based gang violence has happened a long way from Vancouver. So: I hope it's not the case, and I don't mean to drag a grieving family's name through the mud, but it isn't outside the realm of possibility.

Snipped for space.

I hope it's not the case either, and I honestly don't have a tie between the Triads or mafia and the cases of others being found dead in water tanks. I wonder if there is one. And I certainly don't want to drag a grieving family's name through the mud either.

My boyfriend is Chinese...I wonder if he can cast some light on this aspect.

 

[AnotherCanuck]

The reason all her posts are from different dates and you can only see certain ones is due to Facebook privacy settings. They change frequently and will sometimes force certain posts to be public. Clearly Elisa had 90% of her posts private, including her photo albums.

Respectfully snipped

I have gone to that FB page and I can't see any posts...How can some people see some posts and others not, I wonder?

 

[Xavier]

For anyone who has'nt seen or read about the movie "Dark Water" the similarities of Elisa's death and this film are really eerie...and parts of the film was shot at Chandler Studios in Van Nuys,CA near LA

From what I've read, experts say CopyCat Killers tend to have a criminal past, a history of mental illness and other major issues..they watch usually movies with violence, horror

Here's a Scene:

Dahlia breaks down when she can't find her daughter and has strange dreams. These lead her to the roof and up the ladder of the water tank, where she finds Natasha's body. When police arrive, they discover that Natasha's father thought she was with her mother, while the mother thought the girl was with her father. The girl was left alone in the abandoned apartment and fell into the water tank, which Veeck had left open. He was aware of her body, which was why he refused to fix the water problem plaguing the complex. Veeck is arrested and Murray is questioned.


http://www.google.com/search?q=dark+water++movie+locations+where+shot&hl=en&source=hp&gbv=1

 

[Figuring]

Wasn't it already reported that she only had an episode of mild depression? Where did the bipolar disorder come from? Sorry, I might have missed it.

- She wrote on her blog she had bipolar
http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/autre

- She described many times being 'hypomanic' which is not a well known clinical term (meaning, I think she learned this from treatment)
http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/34350935794/adventures-in-hypomania-part-ii

- her medications definitely suggest as much. Mild depression would not necessitate what she's on.
http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/22304102762/more-its-still-odd-to-me-that-people-are-so
From the post:
Here is the cocktail of prescriptions I take for depression.

Effexor are the pink and red. After 2 years finally found the antidepressant that has made some difference.

Wellbutrin is the white thing. It&#8217;s unfortunately not covered by my student health plan so I have to pay the full price for it. I am so happy I have that health plan.

Next to it is dexedrine, perhaps known more popularly as Adderall. Apparently I have ADHD so shrinky dink has been so kind to prescribe some saying it will help with my concentration. I haven&#8217;t taken it yet but at this point&#8230;.I shouldn&#8217;t resist.

The other one is lamotrigine because apparently I&#8217;m bipolar as well?

I wonder what will happen when I take these things long term. Will I ever not need them?

- Her symptoms seem to demonstrate this, too -- major ups and downs on the blog posts she authored, often not sparked by real-life events, or extreme reactions to life events

- I've read multiple comments from her friends who have said her parents downplayed or were in some denial about her condition

 

[AnotherCanuck]

Thanks for posting that video. It and the other Chinese videos really helps clarify the situation.

Unfortunately it's still a loooooot of speculation though. In the POV video, you can see a door open with a toilet just behind it. Maybe she was talking to someone sitting on the john! Who knows! :floorlaugh:

 

[noodled1]

Yes, I suppose that's what they "would" have done as you so thougtfully pointed out.
But, the dreaded media missed the money shots because nobody thought to call them except they had the helo in the air at the wrong time, huh?

I guess that helo couldn't hang around to see if those 12 firemen got the hole cut, check back later to get a photo of the long missing Elisa Lam to be taken from the scene of what has been described on this thread as a case
that will be remembered for a 100 years. I am not one of them, though.
How many media outlets you reckon were covering this case?
You'd think they'd have one or two gawking in the lobby talking to the residents about all that icky water, again.

Oh I think there's pics, here's a couple, not really sure how this goes to your understanding things unless you were questioning she was really dead. I also doubt the media was allowed into the hotel until after the scene had been proccessed

Here's one of the coroner on scene with the LAPD copter in the background

via news.nationalpost.com

LAFD removing the body

via http://www.enstarz.com