CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

[FutzBucket]

I still don't understand why you think she would have taken them off to treadwater/swim but not call for help or scream?

Imagine you're a psych student, so you think you can talk your way out of this. You can reason with this person.

And then add in that you can barely see right now, and you don't realize he's leading you into a water-tank until it's too late.

 

[jetsetsam]

The capacity of the four tanks would have been calculated to respond to the maximum anticipated demand of a near or completely full hotel, taking into account the volume coming in from the below street City water service, and the time it would take to refill the tanks.

There is a pump somewhere near the bottom of the hotel to pump the water up to the tanks. The pump would not run so fast as to pressurize the water and burst the pipe on the way up. This would also limit how fast the water in the tanks would get topped up.

This water is only for washing, drinking, etc. It is not for fire flow, which is required by code to be completely separate.

The tanks would not be allowed to completely empty, but they would not be allowed to overflow. There is most likely a full volume shut off mechanism. And there would be some kind of activation system, so that that the tanks would start to refill once the water went down below a certain level.

Peak use times (and low tank volume times) would be in the morning when people would be cleaning up to leave, and in the evening before they go to bed.

The tank with the body in it, based on the external tank pipe system, seems to be the first tank that gets the water and then it's distributed to the other tanks.

So if the input water is running, the tank with the body in it would have a very slightly higher water level than the other tanks.

The photos also show a lot of muck at the bottom of the tank, which seems to indicate that the water level never gets too low, otherwise the scowering action of the input water at a low water level time would have stirred it up and washed the debris out the bottom outlet pipe.

The body was first reported at 10:30 AM, with the tank about 3/4 when the police arrived.

If there were a lot of guests and full-time residents in the building, it is possible that the water level in the tank with the body might be low enough for a person to stand in the tank with their head above water late at night before the tank is filled up again.

 

[FutzBucket]

Yup. The only reason why they checked the tank was because it was over it;s max.

 

[SCHMAE]

Good Find!

It would be hard for someone to keep Elisa in their room after killing her, since hotel's have housekeeping daily, I just don't think some guest, long term or not would do this

I do think one option is this was a murder by either a hotel employee from the Stay or Cecil...and was'nt there a Maintanence office/room on the 14th or 15th floor?

If Elisa was placed in the cistern tank long after murdered, the employee could've hid her in this Maintenance room and likely knew it's probably a room hardly ever opened or used

Just guessing folks

This poor girl, I pray for her family

Maybe she was not deceased for all of the days that she was ' missing' . ie: captive

 

[prufrock]

===respectfully snipped for brevity and focus===

The body was first reported at 10:30 AM, with the tank about 3/4 when the police arrived.

I believe someone has posted some of the dimensions of this tank. I wonder if we have enough to calculate the actual depth of the water that was in the tank at the time.

 

[catatonia]

If there were a lot of guests and full-time residents in the building, it is possible that the water level in the tank with the body might be low enough for a person to stand in the tank with their head above water late at night before the tank is filled up again.

Good point.

 

[houndstooth]

Good point though I think worse than that - every element of the case needs to be looked at critically... including these "U.K." "tourists" who conveniently appear before the hotel doors bags read (message: "we are leaving in disgust"), their story ready. Who would drink and bathe in "black" water whatever the source.... for 8 days...makes no sense at all.

Not off topic at all someone rather brilliant drew my attention to this interesting story relating to water, Dow, Azerbaijian.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-make-lake-water-drinkable-in-azerbaijan.html

Nobody would, in my opinion, Chorley. You'd leave after the first sign of disgusting water. I also am skeptical of the media accounts in this case and the accounts of the "guests" selected for interview.
Was hotel management asked to comment?

I'll go back to the statements I read by LE, allegedly. They stated the water was Okay even before it was tested.
What led them to this conclusion if the mere sight and taste of it and appearance as shown in photos was horrific? Unless all of this has been to
sensationalize the story. It just does not add up no matter which way you look at it.

Edit to add: In one media video, supposedly Alvin Taylor, another iffy character alleged resident, was showing media covertly his tapwater before it was flushed also.
The water was running clear. This is apparently what police saw also.
There statements do not reflect the other media accounts of the water's being obviously "horrific".

 

[silsby]

Is this EL's page: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/archive

IF it is I am curious as to who posted on her account TODAY. It's a picture of the Tarot card "The Hermit" which means (after a search because I am not into that stuff) ...

OMG, that is WEIRD! I have goosebumps! I don't use Tumblr, but many have said that she probably had it on auto-queue and eventually it emptied out. There has not been activity on it for a long time! Yikes. I think this is very strange and deserves attention. Thanks for spotting it.

Does LE have her phone, or is it in someone else's hands??? I hope they're at least pinging it...if they don't know where it is.

 

[medsleuth]

In LE's profile on tumblr - she talks about her bipolar condition.

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/autre

Wasn't it already reported that she only had an episode of mild depression? Where did the bipolar disorder come from? Sorry, I might have missed it.

 

[jetsetsam]

A tidbit of info about the lids for the tanks.

At the start of these threds, someone posted a pic of the tank lid, removed and partially covered by a piece of plastic when the firemen were there, which led to my conclusion that the lids fitted like the lid on a shoe box.

And were completely removable.

But I remember someone, either the police or a hotel representative saying that there was a latch system for the tank lids.

This picture shows the lid open on another tank, and it clearly has hinges.



And here is a close up of one of the tank lids, which also seems to show hinges.



So I think the lid for the tank with the body also had a hinged lid. It was removed by the police or fireman. For fingerprints? And that's why it was partially covered by plastic in the rain?

A young woman like Elisa couldn't lower herself into a partially empty tank late at night and reach over and pull the lid closed as she went into the tank.

Think about it. Try it yourself.

And the water level would be low enough late at night that she wouldn't be floating near the top of the tank and be able to stretch her overly flexible and long arm out of the tank and close the lid.

So the question of whether the maintenance worker had to open the lid in the morning when he found the body, or whether the lid was already open, becomes key in concluding whether it was suicide or murder.

And LE would have the same thoughts.

 

[houndstooth]

OMG, that is WEIRD! I have goosebumps! I don't use Tumblr, but many have said that she probably had it on auto-queue and eventually it emptied out. There has not been activity on it for a long time! Yikes. I think this is very strange and deserves attention. Thanks for spotting it.

Does LE have her phone, or is it in someone else's hands??? I hope they're at least pinging it...if they don't know where it is.

It's the same with her alleged fb. It shows a couple posts from 2007 and then nothing until 2012 or 13 I forget which.
What that seemed to me was a dormant fb that was somehow commandeered
and "dedicated" to being portrayed as "hers".

Same may be true of this tumbr account.
This whole case is weird and not at all what it seems in my opinion.

 

[princessofmirth]

If her body was stashed somewhere else for a while, wouldn't decomposition and the body's bloating due to gases make it more difficult to put her down the hatch of the water tank? It seems there would be some residue on the edges of the tank hatch if she was pushed through that at around 2 weeks post-mortem. Are there any photos of the LAPD investigating the hatch prior to the FD retrieving her body? A corpse does bloat considerably in a normal temperature (say, a room or closet).

It has been widely reported that the Cecil doesn't have heat in the rooms. Factor in that the hotel had a lot of empty rooms, plus the fact that temperatures were far below normal, and it's quite possible that poor girl was in one of those rooms.

 

[princessofmirth]

Nobody would, in my opinion, Chorley. You'd leave after the first sign of disgusting water. I also am skeptical of the media accounts in this case and the accounts of the "guests" selected for interview.
Was hotel management asked to comment?

I'll go back to the statements I read by LE, allegedly. They stated the water was Okay even before it was tested.
What led them to this conclusion if the mere sight and taste of it and appearance as shown in photos was horrific? Unless all of this has been to
sensationalize the story. It just does not add up no matter which way you look at it.

Edit to add: In one media video, supposedly Alvin Taylor, another iffy character alleged resident, was showing media covertly his tapwater before it was flushed also.
The water was running clear. This is apparently what police saw also.
There statements do not reflect the other media accounts of the water's being obviously "horrific".

First statement:
The Hotel has declined to answer ANY media questions, I don't know why they would suddenly grant a statement.

Two: Are we certain when the video with Alvin Taylor was taken? Was the body already out of the cistern when taken?
No disrespect, but I think there's something the hotel is withholding.

 

[Nepen]

Yup. The only reason why they checked the tank was because it was over it;s max.

How can you be so certain? Any quotes on that? I don't remember ever reading anywhere that that was the reason. Indeed, the reason that was mostly stated was low water pressure.

 

[silsby]

It's the same with her alleged fb. It shows a couple posts from 2007 and then nothing until 2012 or 13 I forget which.
What that seemed to me was a dormant fb that was somehow commandeered
and "dedicated" to being portrayed as "hers".

Same may be true of this tumbr account.
This whole case is weird and not at all what it seems in my opinion.

It's just strange that there was a certain consistency to those posts for practically the entirety of its existence, and then bam. Done. But then, yesterday, one appears again.

I agree: I do not know what to make of this case. If they have a lead they're following, I hope that the general public is safe. I'll come back to Mickey Shunick again and say that LE did some awesome "close to the vest" work in that case. HOPING it's the same way with this one.

 

[Hotspotch]

I read through your 2 long posts and do find them interesting. But there are 2 segments of the video which you had not covered. How would your theory explain them? :

1. Her repeated pressing (4 times) of the same row of elevator buttons in the same sequence.

2. At 1:58 mark of the video when she turned her face towards the right and smiled, and her splayed right hand did a stroke-like motion 4 times towards the elevator.

To me, these are 2 very significant parts of the video that most theories presented here ignored or failed to give a satisfactory meaning.

Thanks.

number 1 is an interesting question, about something which, as you mention no one else has really noticed, or given an adequate explanation for. I recall pointing out somewhere that it almost looks as though she is entering some sort of numeric code. She leans toward the buttons like she is playing an arcade game or cracking the combination to a safe or something. The way she bends over to be shorter reminds me of something that she might do if re-enacting a sequence she'd learned as a little girl. She was shorter then. So maybe almost subconsciously she bends way down to see the keys from the perspective whch she recalls always having seen this from before, as a short little girl. The button sequence could just be a test of how detailed and thorough her programming is. If she gets the sequence perfectly every time, bingo, someone some place gets a big bonus cheque. Job well done, Wiz.

Maybe the button sequence means nothing , affects nothing in reality. All it proves is that they've programmed her to a T, to perform the exact, specific, unerring sequence of actions on command, and like a five year old she has no clue of what she is even doing or why. She IS five years old, in that particular alter. It could have all sorts of applications. She could be used as a suicide bomber. Walk in wired up, press the right combination of keys on her cell phone or laptop and ...BOOOM. Instant religious zealot terrorist attack , made to order.

2. Queston number two I sort of addressed indirectly in one of the longer posts. My theory is that she may be rebuking the ghost for 'haunting' her by mimicking it in a way with the sort of hobgoblin/hexing motion which you see ghosts and warlocks and witches and the like use in cartoons while tormenting their victims. Its like she may be laying down the law and mocking whoever or whatever she imagines to be tormenting her and disabling her elevator in an effort to further terrorize her. At first she looks like she could be genuinely frightened , at the point when she first hides fearfully in the corner after finding that whatever is there is invisible to her.
She seems to relax as the seconds tick by and nothing terrifying happens.
All that she has is her uncertainty, and a certain playfulness which reminds as characteristic of a young child, a little girl who is eager to adapt virtually any life experience into some sort of game or learning toy which she might benefit from and test her strengths on. Like a puppy which chews everything it comes across, if only to test it out, its scent , its flavor and texture and attempt to benefit from it. This is what this whole elevator sequence reminds me of. A little girl who has been programmed in some way.

 

[houndstooth]

First statement:
The Hotel has declined to answer ANY media questions, I don't know why they would suddenly grant a statement.

Two: Are we certain when the video with Alvin Taylor was taken? Was the body already out of the cistern when taken?
No disrespect, but I think there's something the hotel is withholding.

No, and that's the point. The media shows us footage allegedly taken with the help of Mr. Taylor's cellphone with the tagline: Footage of the water you aren't meant to see! And what is it we see? Clear water running from the tap.

As for the Cecil Hotel, they would probably consider this as " publicity" as part of their cachet of being home of a couple serial killers supposedly and a few celebrity deaths and suicides. This is right up their alley.
If they were worried it was damaging to their rep they would make a statement of some sort, but I will defer to the posters who have more
experience in the hotel/beverage business than I.
But, what of the hostel, Stay at Main? Also, no comment? The coffee shop?
The Invisible Light Agency? Other possible business tenants?
Everybody mum?

 

[princessofmirth]

No, and that's the point. The media shows us footage allegedly taken with the help of Mr. Taylor's cellphone with the tagline: Footage of the water you aren't meant to see! And what is it we see? Clear water running from the tap.

As for the Cecil Hotel, they would probably consider this as " publicity" as part of their cachet of being home of a couple serial killers supposedly and a few celebrity deaths and suicides. This is right up their alley.
If they were worried it was damaging to their rep they would make a statement of some sort, but I will defer to the posters who have more
experience in the hotel/beverage business than I.
But, what of the hostel, Stay at Main? Also, no comment? The coffee shop?
The Invisible Light Agency? Other possible business tenants?
Everybody mum?

That tells me that there's more to this story than we know.

 

[catatonia]

You can make a post queue on tumblr, so that specific posts will be released at a certain date.

 

[prufrock]

A tidbit of info about the lids for the tanks.

At the start of these threds, someone posted a pic of the tank lid, removed and partially covered by a piece of plastic when the firemen were there, which led to my conclusion that the lids fitted like the lid on a shoe box.

And were completely removable.

But I remember someone, either the police or a hotel representative saying that there was a latch system for the tank lids.

This picture shows the lid open on another tank, and it clearly has hinges.

View attachment 30259

And here is a close up of one of the tank lids, which also seems to show hinges.

View attachment 30260

So I think the lid for the tank with the body also had a hinged lid. It was removed by the police or fireman. For fingerprints? And that's why it was partially covered by plastic in the rain?

A young woman like Elisa couldn't lower herself into a partially empty tank late at night and reach over and pull the lid closed as she went into the tank.

Think about it. Try it yourself.

And the water level would be low enough late at night that she wouldn't be floating near the top of the tank and be able to stretch her overly flexible and long arm out of the tank and close the lid.

So the question of whether the maintenance worker had to open the lid in the morning when he found the body, or whether the lid was already open, becomes key in concluding whether it was suicide or murder.

And LE would have the same thoughts.

If there were something to grab onto, like a lip inside the lid, she could have closed it on the way in. She may even have been able to grab the outside of the lid and pull it with her as she went in.