CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

[walklikeacat]

The photo was pulled from Elisa's Tumblr. It was an original post by her in December, and the shirt she's wearing under the jacket matches the one in photographs released by LAPD. So it's probably a self-portrait. Then again, if you're not convinced the Tumblr is hers, I guess it's another Chinese mystery to solve.

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37526769464/this-is-usually-how-i-look-when-i-walk-at-night

I am convinced. Don´t know why I missed it those times I have been out on her tumblr. Thanks!

 

[Norwegian]

I spent some time on Tumblr last night and I'm 100% certain it's hers. I think the girl struggled a lot, but not enough to commit suicide. She even writes that she is "well again" in one of her last personal posts. She seems excited and seems happy to have found "material" for obsession about "The Great Gatsby".

Also, in another post she writes that "suicide is not an option for me".

Even though she is personal in her posts, she is not too personal. But I still think it's enough to give points about her state of being, and in her last posts she seemed to have a different outlook on life.

I know you all have discussed the tumblr way back, but I wanted to give my two cents.

 

[kenmore]

I am convinced. Don´t know why I missed it those times I have been out on her tumblr. Thanks!

It takes forever and a day to make it all the way to early December in her archive. I tried and got sick of waiting so I ended up googling what I could recall of the text, which ironically lead me to its posting in this very forum.

 

[Norwegian]

It takes forever and a day to make it all the way to early December in her archive. I tried and got sick of waiting so I ended up googling what I could recall of the text, which ironically lead me to its posting in this very forum.

Going through her Tumblr is really difficult because of the endless scrolling and coloring of the page.

But if you open a tumblr account and follow her blog, it gets much easier to go through it! You get all the posts chronologically, can disable the endless scrolling on the dashboard and the coloring is wonderful! It's also easier to see who has liked/reblogged her posts... Just a tip!

 

[kenmore]

I spent some time on Tumblr last night and I'm 100% certain it's hers. I think the girl struggled a lot, but not enough to commit suicide. She even writes that she is "well again" in one of her last personal posts.

Also, in another post she writes that "suicide is not an option for me".

I know you all have discussed the tumblr way back, but I wanted to give my two cents.

Thank you for sharing. I am pretty sure I was the first to find her Tumblr, and reading what I did certainly moved me and drove me to put more time and energy into this case than any sane person not affiliated with the LAPD should ever dream. It is certainly hard to fathom suicide when reading Elisa's words, but the clear history of depression and anti-psychotics, grouped with the odd behavior in the elevator, lack of trauma on the body, and sheer difficulty of disposing a body in the water tank, all combine to form one seriously confounding cocktail.

 

[findinganatta]

The killer may have had more control over the privacy of their surroundings than you're presuming, a high-ranking staff member for example. But I do agree that it would be dangerous for them to keep someone alive who was a "missing person" -- presuming they knew she was a "missing person".

My theory is that if it was murder, then the water tank was used out of a sense of necessity, because that makes the most sense to me. I can't see why a higher level staff person wound't have just used their knowledge, rank, and access to any part of the building to smuggle the body out and dump it somewhere less conspicuous that their own workplace. The only reason I can think of would be some kind of sick thrill, which of course is possible, but it seems like an extremely unusual personality profile.

We agree.

If it was accidental death/murder, I think it happened up there at the water tanks.

I'm becoming increasingly drawn to this theory, or some similar variation. The only part that I wouldn't understand is her lack of clothes, assuming she was indeed naked when they found her. And I would think that if the authorities didn't find the clothes she was wearing, then they would have made an attempt to retrieve them from the hotel's plumbing system if they believed it was possible for them have gone missing that way.

 

[Norwegian]

I was thinking about why EL had to be cut out from the water tank and I remembered that the body sweels a lot in water. The first time I saw this was during a news report from Hurricane Katrina and that body had not been in water more than 3-5 days.

Been trying to find out how much a body would swell after being in the water for almost three weeks. Haven't found any good answers yet. But if it swells a lot, that would explain why they had to cut the tank to get her out.

Found this interesting document about drowning from the forensic medical department of University of Dundee.

http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/notes/water.pdf

From the document:

About drownings: "two-third are accidental and one-third are suicidal; homicide by drowning is rare."

Homicidal drownings: "Homicidal drowning is uncommon and requires either physical disparity between the assailant and the victim or a victim incapacitated by disease, drink or drugs, or taken by surprise. Disposal in water may be attempted where the victim has already been killed by other means."

Suicidal drowning: "There may be concurrent use of other suicide methods such as drug overdose or slashing of the wrists; alternatively there may be a history or autopsy evidence of previous suicide attempts."

 

[hello people]

What was throwing me off, I think, was the fact that she isn't smiling in the video, and she had a big grin in all of the pictures. That can make a major difference, especially with someone who has a large smile.

So by that rationale someone who doesn't smile very much and who robs a bank with a big grin on his face would throw your powers of identification into mass confusion?

 

[LittleDonutStar]

Like many others here I've been following the threads on EL and finally decided to join the conversation.

The big question here is whether this was a homicide, suicide, or accidental death, possibly drug related. I lean towards homicide, but I'd like to point out an extremely unusual case to those who argue that it's ludicrous that EL could've willingly put herself in the tank.

The case of Jamie Minor seemed to get little coverage despite the bizarre nature of her death: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sing-Texan-hostess-body-trapped-air-duct.html

A 26 year old woman with history of mental illness (bipolar disorder) is fired from her job at a hotel for acting erratically at work that day. A friend says she was "manic." Concerned coworkers call for a ride for her, but she disappears. She isn't seen again, is reported missing two weeks later by her parents after lack of contact. Her remains are found over a month later in the duct system of a restaurant she used to work at. Her purse and other belongings were abandoned on the ground outside the vent opening. This reads as foul play and homicide, right? Actually, Minor avoided the front door of the restaurant and climbed into the ducts in the parking garage an attempt to enter the building. It is speculated that she was trying to meet a friend who worked there. She eventually got stuck vertically in a spot where she couldn't move forward or backward and died. Another article notes that LSD, "bath salts", and Celexa (anti-depressant) were found in her skeletal tissue and liver, but didn't specify whether she was under the influence of the illegal ones before she died.

I've thought of Minor often while reading about EL's death, especially considering the parallels between the two: women in their 20s, bipolar, strange behavior prior to their disappearance, missing, last seen at a hotel, and later found dead in strange circumstances. I don't want to push the idea of accidental homicide, but wanted to use this as an example that anything is possible, especially when mental illness or drugs (interactions between medication or illegal ones) are involved.

 

[jennydreadful]

The photo was pulled from Elisa's Tumblr. It was an original post by her in December, and the shirt she's wearing under the jacket matches the one in photographs released by LAPD. So it's probably a self-portrait. Then again, if you're not convinced the Tumblr is hers, I guess it's another Chinese mystery to solve.

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37526769464/this-is-usually-how-i-look-when-i-walk-at-night

I agree, and there are many other reasons that I don't think there's any reasonable doubt that these accounts are hers. I'm getting kind of burned out with trying to explain--I've done it so many times. The pages fly by, and your hard work is quickly lost and forgotten. I know you'll understand this because you've researched so much as well. I don't really hang around here to argue my theories (I don't feel certain of much), I hang around to help others.

I'd be willing to put an explanation together with some of the other Tumblr people if any of you want to do it. Maybe we can make it absolutely perfect and clear, and give people the link when they ask again? Then all the regulars can make up their minds one way or the other.

The reason I think the Tumblr and the older Ether Fields blog are important is because they're probably the closest we'll ever come to knowing the living, breathing Elisa. I don't think anything in those blogs is directly related to Elisa's death, and the Tumblr reblogs often only tells us the aesthetics that Elisa appreciated. But every so often, you catch a glimpse of her, sometimes more. Sometimes a laughing, witty girl. Sometimes in a pitch black depression, but usually keeping sight of the fact that it would pass.

She wrote about the internet being her lifeline, the window through which she could always see the "more" out there. There were people like her out there, who felt the way she did. I've had this same experience, so I feel it really keenly. I was able to use that lifeline and reach that world--the internet changed the direction of my life. Elisa was striving for it, and taking her first big step out into the world... It upsets me that she wasn't allowed to clear that hurdle, or to reach any of the futures that she dreamed of.

I don't have the writing skill to truly convey this, but hopefully it explains why it matters to me.

 

[walklikeacat]

I want to come forward in this case.

I wounder if everything has been said about Elisa´s comments on tumblr? On 25th of January she is talking about a guy she just met: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/41414644630/today-i-slept-took-a-long-hot-shower-stuffed

And she is also writing where she will be heading in San Diego, and she is living in a hostel. How many hostels are there in San Diego? Who is the most popular?

And in last year on December 15 she is writing: "I am trying to figure out my emotions about a guy I met in Toronto". She had just come back after a trip to Ontario and Toronto and her boyfriend had just informed her that he wanted to have a break in their relationship. In December 18 she is talking about "money before I leave for California"

January 23: "I got lost in the airport and missed my connection flight. UGHH. Sleepover at the airport again. United Airlines provides blankets. I have wifi. I can pretend I´m Tom Hanks in the terminal". Did she have a laptop or a cell phone were she could be connected wirelessly?

I am also looking through all her linked photographs on tumblr because they are telling a lot about Elisa herself. Every picture has a certain expression, a certain contents and a defined composition. Elisa did choose them one by one because she felt linked to them and they all described a special feeling, a desire that she had.

Because I am working with photographs on daily basis I feel I can capture her personality in some way.

 

[walklikeacat]

I guess there are about 20 hostels in San Diego. Which one is close to all these places she was about to visit? Sea World, The Zoo, Whale watching at Coronado/Point Loma?

 

[walklikeacat]

Pacifica Hotel is located 0.6 km from City Center and it is located in San Diego´s Gaslamp district...where you can find that speakeasy "Gaslamp".

 

[danzn16]

Have they gotten tox results back yet?

 

[kingsway]

Like many others here I've been following the threads on EL and finally decided to join the conversation.

The big question here is whether this was a homicide, suicide, or accidental death, possibly drug related. I lean towards homicide, but I'd like to point out an extremely unusual case to those who argue that it's ludicrous that EL could've willingly put herself in the tank.

The case of Jamie Minor seemed to get little coverage despite the bizarre nature of her death: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sing-Texan-hostess-body-trapped-air-duct.html

A 26 year old woman with history of mental illness (bipolar disorder) is fired from her job at a hotel for acting erratically at work that day. A friend says she was "manic." Concerned coworkers call for a ride for her, but she disappears. She isn't seen again, is reported missing two weeks later by her parents after lack of contact. Her remains are found over a month later in the duct system of a restaurant she used to work at. Her purse and other belongings were abandoned on the ground outside the vent opening. This reads as foul play and homicide, right? Actually, Minor avoided the front door of the restaurant and climbed into the ducts in the parking garage an attempt to enter the building. It is speculated that she was trying to meet a friend who worked there. She eventually got stuck vertically in a spot where she couldn't move forward or backward and died. Another article notes that LSD, "bath salts", and Celexa (anti-depressant) were found in her skeletal tissue and liver, but didn't specify whether she was under the influence of the illegal ones before she died.

I've thought of Minor often while reading about EL's death, especially considering the parallels between the two: women in their 20s, bipolar, strange behavior prior to their disappearance, missing, last seen at a hotel, and later found dead in strange circumstances. I don't want to push the idea of accidental homicide, but wanted to use this as an example that anything is possible, especially when mental illness or drugs (interactions between medication or illegal ones) are involved.

Different cases.

• There's been no evidence that Elisa has behaved erratically, in a suicidal or delirious manner in the past. The only "evidence" is an elevator video without audio or any other context.
• Some reports say she was found nude.
• Minor's personal effects were found, there's been no indication that Elisa's clothes have been found
• Minor's actions have some sort of logic, she didn't want to be seen, but wanted to get in, Elisa's "supposed" actions had no logic at all
• Elisa was last seen wanting to take the elevator down. So you can conclude that she wasn't thinking of going to the roof at the time of the video, let alone climbing into a water tank.

I'm open to suicide or accidental death as a remote possibility, but without evidence of Elisa acting in a similar fashion before, it's not logical to assume it was suicide or a result of psychosis. The elevator video is not enough evidence to say she experiencing psychosis, or even on drugs.

Things that would sway me toward suicide or accidental death:

• Friends or family saying she was acting strangely.
• Suicide note
• Her clothes were found close to the tank.
• More video footage with odd behavior
• The tank lid was found open

 

[FiveFelines]

Re: that musician that keeps coming up, it's like a child's game of telephone/whispers... She makes a comment in her Tumblr about liking a guy who has a tattoo on his wrist, and that has somehow evolved into "heavily tattooed." She likes a guy who plays double bass, and that becomes "bass guitar" (not the same thing), which becomes "she was a groupie for his band." And so on. We even had discussion in one of these WS threads awhile back where we found a Tumblr post saying she had told the guy she liked that she liked him, and he didn't like her back, and that was the end of it, before she went to CA -- so it was nothing even related to her trip.

This is where I really agree that her Tumblr is a massive red herring. People are taking it and running with it in ways that are so far removed from the original, but referring to it as fact. This is especially true in news stories that have taken quotes out of context and translated into another language, and then folks translate back into English using web translation (therefore the phrases are twice removed from their original wording).

Not saying this to be grumpy or anything , but rather as a reminder that Internet rumours are getting out of control for this case, and it's important to stick to the facts rather than use those rumours to try to draw connections.

^This. Seems like this whole case in turning into one giant game of telephone! Don't forget her alleged "Mexican stalkers". *sigh* :banghead:

 

[Beautifulonein]

I don't know if anyone else has answered this for you, so I will just in case. Check out Lambetes post on Jan. 10th telling someone to go sketch people. Go to the Twitter of the user she's talking to (her user name has fashion in it). Once you're there, scroll down to the Feb. 21sts posts--there are two there. The user links to Lambetes and says she's Elisa and that she'd just met up with her recently--she had just learned of Elisa's disappearance and death.

Elisa had suggested the meetup because she was going to be visiting Toronto (see Elisa's tweets of Dec. 6th to read those). Hope that helps!

Edit: I know people have explained the connection between this Twitter and the Tumblr, but I'll go into it briefly. Off the top of my head, here's a quick way to verify that it's extremely likely that it's hers. Go to her Tumblr, click on the etc, and then click on the link to her Formspring. She uses L.L. there too and uses exactly the same avatar as she does on Twitter. That's really the tip of the iceberg.

As far as the value of her Tumblr and older blog goes, I think it's valuable in terms of understand EL a little better. I think a lot of what has been said about it beyond that are red herrings and misconceptions, though.

I may have missed the post where the twitter info was linked. Sorry in advance if it has been.

https://mobile.twitter.com/cheriecity/status/304690911378558976

 

[kingsway]

There have been a number of individuals on this forum who have stated the mental break as a probable situation. The individuals who you are questioning are only adding their weight to what the professionals have stated in the first thread. My own conversations with my colleagues (posted on this forum) have also noted they believe it is likely mental health related.

I'm not sure I see the controversy or the issue in professionals stating what they see from the video.

"Professional" or not, it's doubtful they can make a reliable diagnosis based on a video that has no context or audio cues. People are susceptible to pass judgment on other people without context of the situation. It's much too easy to say someone is crazy or on drugs when they can't open their mind to different contexts.

I would surmise that some "professionals" have a bias toward their field of work. Their logic boils down to, "It's obvious from the video that she's crazy, and crazy people do crazy things." - not much thinking needed there.

 

[jennydreadful]

Pacifica Hotel is located 0.6 km from City Center and it is located in San Diego´s Gaslamp district...where you can find that speakeasy "Gaslamp".

The website for the Gaslamp District in San Diego also lists 2 hostels that are in the Gaslamp District: http://www.gaslamp.org/hostels/. The Gaslamp District is a beautiful pedestrian area, according to my boyfriend (he's been there, but I haven't).

From everything we've heard, Elisa was probably not a big drinker. But a speakeasy in the Gaslamp District would have been a sensible place to hang out and drink if you were stating in a hostel there. I've wondered if she drank a little wine, got tipsier than expected because of her medications, and lost her (original) phone as a result. I used to take a combination of psych meds (some of the same drugs), and just half a glass of merlot would unexpectedly get me drunk. I wasn't much of a drinker at all, either.

 

[FiveFelines]

Like many others here I've been following the threads on EL and finally decided to join the conversation.

The big question here is whether this was a homicide, suicide, or accidental death, possibly drug related. I lean towards homicide, but I'd like to point out an extremely unusual case to those who argue that it's ludicrous that EL could've willingly put herself in the tank.

The case of Jamie Minor seemed to get little coverage despite the bizarre nature of her death: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sing-Texan-hostess-body-trapped-air-duct.html

A 26 year old woman with history of mental illness (bipolar disorder) is fired from her job at a hotel for acting erratically at work that day. A friend says she was "manic." Concerned coworkers call for a ride for her, but she disappears. She isn't seen again, is reported missing two weeks later by her parents after lack of contact. Her remains are found over a month later in the duct system of a restaurant she used to work at. Her purse and other belongings were abandoned on the ground outside the vent opening. This reads as foul play and homicide, right? Actually, Minor avoided the front door of the restaurant and climbed into the ducts in the parking garage an attempt to enter the building. It is speculated that she was trying to meet a friend who worked there. She eventually got stuck vertically in a spot where she couldn't move forward or backward and died. Another article notes that LSD, "bath salts", and Celexa (anti-depressant) were found in her skeletal tissue and liver, but didn't specify whether she was under the influence of the illegal ones before she died.

I've thought of Minor often while reading about EL's death, especially considering the parallels between the two: women in their 20s, bipolar, strange behavior prior to their disappearance, missing, last seen at a hotel, and later found dead in strange circumstances. I don't want to push the idea of accidental homicide, but wanted to use this as an example that anything is possible, especially when mental illness or drugs (interactions between medication or illegal ones) are involved.

Yes! Thank you. I've read about that case and couldn't remember all the details. I, too, thought of her climbing through the air duct when I first heard about EL. I don't necessarily think EL's death was an accident, but this definitely goes to show that people will do some strange things.