CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

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That is weird because that is the same thing I thought about her.

I noticed her loose joints too, because mine are exactly the same way!

(Added for context: Someone else posted about this before--her thumb or fingers bending backward in photos, her foot turning sideways in the video to a degree that freaked people out. It didn't register with me initially that any of it looked strange, since my body does those things)
 
No I haven't, didn't know they exist. Would prefer to post in here as this is the one i've been following. Will keep the blantant speculaitve profiling to a minimum.

Welcome TheRoger !!

We have a forum now for Elisa with various categories:

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=514"]Elisa Lam - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


Part way down that page, you'll see the "Theories Only" thread.

PS: This thread that we are in here is more of a general discussion, not necessarily related to specific theories.
 
I see the body of another young oriental girl has been found in Newport Beach. Police statement about COD and such are eerily similar to the Lam case. Body found near water in a beach town. If this is related Elisa may be the first victim of a serial killer who is now travelling southward. Would be interesting to see what other bodies have turned up recently near or in water.
 
I had a similar impression. When she steps out and marches too the left and then marches a step back into the elevator it is like exaggerated secret mission walking. Cute, innocent, having fun.

I think she keeps the door open on purpose btw - perhaps to scare someone chasing her in play.

If that is her, I find her to be funny, adorable, and very relatable. So cute and sweet.
 
Yeah, it's hard to tell but it looks like you'd be able to see the exit if standing in the elevator and looking the mirror from a certain angle.

Those gallery pics are hilarious, in a sick, "bait-and-switch" kind of way. Where are these big, luxurious rooms they show? Because all the room pics I've seen (both of Stay and Cecil) look nothing like that at all.

The rooms are $65 a night? In Los Angeles? That would be enough to tell me not to stay there.
 
Not sure if this was mentioned since the first post comparing the Jamie Minor (young Austin woman who died accidentally when she crawled into another highly unlikely location to end up on your own, ventilation ducts) and EL cases, but it turns out Jamie had been using "bath salts" that day. Although she was bipolar, and initially the speculation was that mental illness led her to do such a strange thing, it turns out that bath salts (which has effects similar to meth and PCP combined, depending on the variety) and small amounts of LSD were in her system. This only matters because, in my experience, extreme acts of psychotic behavior are not common to bipolar people. Manic states might bring some degree of this behavior, and it certainly varies from person to person, but there is no reason to believe EL had psychotic tendencies. She did mention taking anti-psychotics, but those are sometimes used to supplement antidepressants for depression issues. Just throwing that out there.

- I also contemplated why the water tank?...( If she was murdered by a employee?..why not move the body away from the hotel and hide it/bury it/put it in the ocean?)

- One reason i thought of was the surveillance camera's in the elevator.We know for sure that there are camera's in the elevators...( do they also have camera's at the first floor entry?...exit?...doors)

- IF....The only way for the perp to get the body to the 1rst floor would be by elevator then the perp would be on video with the body ( If the perp was not a cleaning person....then the perp would look very suspicious with a large garbage can/case)

- Many video recorders save up to 2 weeks of video.( you can go back and look at 2 weeks from the present day....hope that made sense)


- Perp was forced to use the tank to hide the body and hope police presence would die down.
I don't personally find the hotel staff theory very compelling, but to clarify something about your reply... I would suspect that if an employee wanted to carry a body in a bag down multiple floors at the Cecil, they would use the stairs. Apparently the floors are quite short, and the stairs were a quick way to get around (and without security cameras aimed at them, presumably).
 
Also I do not discount that it may have been a guest. perhaps this was a first crime perp was staying at hotel for a while, finally acted on impulses, fled afterwards, and this Newport case that seems remarkably simlar is related as perp has now relocated but his 'appetite' has been awakened and feels compelled to committ further crimes a la Jack the Ripper.
 
Sorry, I have mostly been keeping up, if quietly, but has it been determined there was a perp for sure? Or are we still on theories?
 
I noticed her loose joints too, because mine are exactly the same way!

Yep, me too. That was me that posted about noticing it in her video before and her pictures. I posted a lot of my characteristics that I think are genetically/biologically related to what causes my loose joints because I think it could relate to her but I deleted it because I guess some people consider it off topic. But I will say that I find her similar to me in all of those ways when I watch her on video.

It's like, oh look, it's my asian twin!

Since you know what I am talking about, you might be interested in reading this paper or whatever that this doctor wrote about people with joint hypermobility or joint laxity. A lot of it describes me very well--the majority of it describes me. It was kind of shocking to read some of it because it was so on target. If Elisa had that condition then likely some of the paper would describe her too, which would even further mean that her actions were pretty normal (for her) and not necessarily because she was seriously wacked out on something or having a mental breakdown. I act like her pretty often I would say. Have been accused many times of being on drugs by ignorant people because of my thinness and hyperness--have NEVER used drugs. Not saying she hasn't. Just saying you don't have to in order to act like her in an elevator.

http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

This part is interesting as it could explain Elisa Lam's feeling of being moody or bipolar (IF she had those feelings):

"Hypermobility and Anxiety

The body’s tendency to overreact to stresses by making too much adrenaline can lead others to think that hypermobile people are “too sensitive,” “irritable,” or “anxious.” Patients themselves may notice this, saying, “I’ve always overreacted to little things. I can’t help it.” It is very important to recognize two things about this phenomenon. First, it is a physical reaction, so that counseling usually will not be effective in treating this type of anxiety. Similarly, adrenaline highs and lows may be mistaken for the mood fluctuations of bipolar disorder, but mood-stabilizing medications usually are not indicated. When medication is required, beta blockers, which block adrenaline, may be as effective with fewer side effects than SSRI’s like Prozac and Lexapro or benzodiazepines like Xanax and Valium."
 
Interesting note. There is an nbc news vid on the newport body.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Newport-Beach-Body-194996521.html

Also called 'suspicious death' police have done their best to locate clothing related to this woman, indicating she was found naked, no signs of physical trauma again. No clear link yet but everything fits the MO of the Lam case. I'd keep an eye on this websleuths. Oriental woman in mid 20s similar description to elisa.

Also three memorial candles were found burning near the scene and had been placed early morning before the bodys discovery. They have been taken into evidence. 3rd victim perhaps? Bad gut feeling about this one. I think we have a serial keller here. Newport beach does not look far from LA.
 
comparing the Jamie Minor

I personally do not find these cases comparable. Jamie Minor had already been seen attempting to access the building through side or back doors and was unsuccessful. She was in process of attempting to enter the building--entering the ducts was a continuation of the action she was already engaged in. She likely was not expecting the ducts to narrow and slope down, therefore trapping her immobile. Hollywood movies show people crawling through buildings in ducts so she might have thought it would work out that way since as a female, she probably never did building construction and wouldn't know that in real life ducts don't look like they do in movies.

Not saying that the bath salts didn't lower her inhibitions enough to do something illegal and pretty stupid. Not saying her judgment wasn't impaired, but her actions make some sense. Crawling into a water tank makes no sense whatsoever.
 
I had a similar impression. When she steps out and marches too the left and then marches a step back into the elevator it is like exaggerated secret mission walking. Cute, innocent, having fun.

Me, too. I think she has cute mannerisms and has a habit of appearing sort of cute when she does things.

It is also part of playing the hand that God has dealt you in life if you know what I mean. If not, what I mean is that if you are a big, strong, muscle bound person, then people will treat you a certain way and you are have certain gifts relative to other people and you are constrained by certain limitations as well. Same with being a person who doesn't weigh much and isn't very strong.

I think it is natural for a slender woman who probably is not very strong to develop a sort of cute habit just because it is the safest choice and will get you the best usual response from people. You can't play tough girl after all because the average teenage girl has a physical advantage on you. A 200 pound 5'8'' woman will get a totally different response from her behaviors. A larger, stronger woman can act tougher and get away with it but on the otherhand, can't really play the cute card. She got dealt a different hand, you know?

I don't think people analyze their own personality traits. But I think it just naturally develops over your childhood and life in response to the feedback you receive when interacting with people. And that interacts with your natural disposition to create who you are. At some point, your traits that get positive reinforcement become sort of internalized or cemented in your personality and it becomes who you are so you will still act like that even when nobody is around. You aren't being fake by having that personality. I doubt it is even a calculated choice by most people. It has become an inseparable part of who you are. It is unconscious and automatic behavior in many ways I think.
 
Interesting note. There is an nbc news vid on the newport body.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Newport-Beach-Body-194996521.html

Also called 'suspicious death' police have done their best to locate clothing related to this woman, indicating she was found naked, no signs of physical trauma again. No clear link yet but everything fits the MO of the Lam case. I'd keep an eye on this websleuths. Oriental woman in mid 20s similar description to elisa.

Also three memorial candles were found burning near the scene and had been placed early morning before the bodys discovery. They have been taken into evidence. 3rd victim perhaps? Bad gut feeling about this one. I think we have a serial keller here. Newport beach does not look far from LA.

I would see no link until the woman is also named Elisa Lam.
 
I will tend to believe them, rather then question whether an assessment can be properly made. You know why? Because I can speak personally to the experience of the latter.

Don't. Experience and logical assessment are two different things. Sound logic is more important than experience.

Well there is no point in disagreeing with this. We come from different backgrounds, and you assess it differently. I can see how you can make those conclusions and that's fine. Experience tells me otherwise, but I could very well be wrong. And if I am, I would own up to it like anyone should.

Those aren't conclusions. They are possibilities that do not require someone to be crazy. I'm merely pointing out that those actions can be displayed by normal people too.

And unfortunately, that's where you are wrong. You don't know. You may not know even if you knew me in person. There are dozens of indicators and nuances people are trained to detect, and I would strongly suspect this applies to the mental health field. People have become so caught up in fact that there is no evidence of previous behaviour. And from what? Social media posts, main stream media, her friends? You are never getting the whole story. You are speculating on the personality and past of someone you don't know - not even a little bit. Again, I go back to the terrorism aspect. We have seen such breaks in molds, we don't even know who to consider. Families come forward and say, "that can't be my son, he was a 4.0 GPA science student - he has no past, blah blah." Its easy to show the side you want to show.

My argument isn't that it isn't possible for you to be a terrorist. It's that it's unlikely, and rather than spending time focusing on whether you are or aren't, it's more worthwhile to focus your energy on those that exhibit certain behavior.

Also, there's an important distinction between criminals/terrorists and mentally ill people - criminals and terrorists hide their activities, so past history may be hard to gather, while mentally ill people normally don't so if they ran around the streets naked, someone would probably notice them.
 
Hey guys. I'm new on here. I saw a couple of you were discussing the graffiti on the rooftop, & Also the Chinese translations were a very interesting read. I'm from Los Angeles & was into graffiti in my teens. Now perhaps the graffiti could be completely irrelevant, But i'll just throw this out there. I thought it was interesting that this "phioe" or "phioer" had a number of graffiti "taggings" in those pictures, & with different colors as well : http://img3.laibafile.cn/p/m/134571586.jpg

http://img3.laibafile.cn/p/m/134571607.jpg


It seems like mister Phioe took his friends up there at least once, Here in LA the female graffiti writers will usually put a heart next to their name. (MISK) The other writing says "BAEL" "DEMONS" & His friends probably wrote his name. Also if you've seen the quick rooftop POV video from the Chinese media you'll see PHIOE wrote on the only entrance door with his finger. Maybe he works/worked there? Maybe he is a Downtown hoodlum that just knows the rooftop spot? If you've seen that video i just referred too, you'll notice that there is a small black tagging that dated "11" meaning 2011. the "FECTO" tagging was dated 2012 & The other names that were along with fecto were probably another group of people that went up there. Phioe's group tagging is dated 2013, Long story short thats probably the local hangout spot. (Beer Bottles etc etc) Downtown LA is a grimey grimey place. Also If you see that little white box under the water tower, You'll notice a white drawing. You'll also notice a black drawing on the window. This is whats known as "hobo graffiti." Which leads me to believe that my first assumptions were correct, anyone can get up there.

http://www.50mmlosangeles.com/artist.php?artistId=1059

EDIT: What was a bit shocking to me about the graffiti was that the chinese media that took these pictures on 2-26-13 took one when they got on top of that little roof. The Phioe & His friends tag is dated 2013.. meaning they were hanging out there in January.
 
Snipped that up...


You know LAPD and Newport PD were on the phone till all hours last night comparing notes. As soon as the body in Newport was found everyone's ears perked up



Anyone interested here's that story:

An investigation is underway after a woman's body was found on the sand in Newport Beach, Calif. on March 4, 2013.
/ KTLA (CBS/AP) NEWPORT BEACH, Calif. - Police say a woman was found dead along the Newport Beach shoreline on Monday.


The female victim was discovered lying face down around 6:00 a.m. by two people walking along the waterline near a lifeguard tower, according to Newport Beach police.

The victim is described as an Asian woman in her mid-20s, about 5'2" tall and with a thin build, CBS affiliate KTLA reports.

Coroner's investigators are still working to identify the body, police spokeswoman Kathy Lowe said.




http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...mans-body-found-on-newport-beach-calif-shore/
 
I'm from Los Angeles & was into graffiti in my teens.

Hi. Thanks!

So would you say that a graffiti artist (? gang member? delinquent?--not trying to be mean or funny, just don't know what to call them) would mark a spot only once or so or would they leave some graffiti nearly every time they go there?

Why do they put a date? What is the purpose of them leaving graffiti somewhere like that? Is it sort of like a tomcat peeing in his territory--like, "Stay away or I'll kick your little kitty butt and all the cat biioootches around here are mine too! I can pee on them too to prove it if you need me to."

What is hobo art? Why would somebody leave it?
 
All i'm getting at with the graffiti stuff is that by the looks of it a ton of people go up there, not just vandals. But yeah the graffiti writers go up there for obvious reasons, Hobo art is usually on Freight Trains. Freight monikers by Hobos and Rail workers. This type of graffiti has been traced back to the civil war era. http://www.justseeds.org/blog/j.h.-mckinley-5x7-72.gif
 
I have been reading about this case for a while but have not chimed in until now. I am amazed at the amount of info thathas been deduced by everyone with little to go on. Very good. I find myself fascinated by this case as I have been with others in the past such as JtR, another bizarre and incredibly mysterious red herring. Have been trying to put together a scenario that fits everyithing including the video and I think i may have one.

When I was first told about this case a day or two after Elisa was found I read some MS news reports and watched the elevator video. Immediately my gut feeling (always trust my gut) even before knowing some of the inner workings of the Cecilas uncovered here, was that a staff memeber was involved. The video is definiely bizarre and prob is not as significant as everyone thinks and only serves to muddy the waters. But what about this? Elisa decided to head up to the rooftop to take pics or see the lights at night or whatever. She entered the roof throught the stairwell door and DID set off the alarm in the lobby. Security/night watchman/doorman was alone at his post and heads up to investigate or has already seen elisa heading up on the CCTV. Upon noticing that this is a lone young girl, and possibly knowing that she was planning to check out (buys perp more coverup time) or has been 'keeping an eye on her', perp decides to act.

Perp heads upstairs, either stair or elevator and uses his key to 'lock' elevator. (I believe most have a key hole in the hallway by up and down buttons). Elisa on roof hears perp come through the door and heads down fire escape, (or perp entrance and her exit could be vice versa). Elisa heads down hurriedly, losing glasses in process but being spooked and realizing someone has pursied her she carries on (could have slipped on the ladder and dropped off fire escape). Getting to the 15th floor the sound of her goign through the grate tips off perp that she has gone down off the roof and he goes down the opposite waythat she did. Or he was calling to her and she fled. Elisa reaches elevator and a bit flummoxed but much more calm as she hears no one apporaching presses the buttons and waits nothing happening. Hears door close. Peeks into hall, nothing. Becomes more tense, hides in corner. Upon coming out from corner can hear perp coming, possibly calling out to her. She hears perp coming (or sees him in the mirror) or she has been spotted and recognizing him as hotel employee she lets her guard down and 'jumps' out in a playful manner, thinking shes only busted for being on the roof and trying to lighten the mood. Perp says soemthing like 'Miss what are you doing on the roof at this houryou shouldn't be up there, why didn't you stop when i called' She puts her hands to her head (classic child's 'busted' pose) as she tries to talk her way out of it. Perp persists 'you are trespassing, come along with me'. Elisa thinking this is bs heads back into elevator looking fed up tries buttons again including door close perp says 'elevator is locked and isn't going anywhere, come with me your'e in trouble' or 'elevator is broken youll have to take the stairs' She comes out a final time and gestures are her saying something to the effect of 'i'm jus trying to go down and i don't know whats going on here with the elevators'. Feeling spooked she does not turn directly to perp who is in the hallway and keeps her back half to the elevator this whole time. The finger counting is her pleading that 'i'm lost, lost my glasses you scared me, i just want to go' perp insists she come along, finally seeing no recourse whe goes along and while being led perp grabs her from behind, covers mouth and takes her quickly either to roof or vacant room/utility room and assaults her, prob suffocates her during assault and already had tanks in mind as dumping place.

Sorry this is real long and probably reads like a stream of consiousness style, but my gut is screaming employee right now. Employee might know that she was cheking out that morn and would buy him some time before anyone came looking for her. Perhaps she had previously mentioned she was 'drifting' around cali and he saw a chance that night, or seeing she was alone he had an eye on her. Her glasses, room key, phone and clothes will be huge clues in this case. There is an unsubstantiated chinese report that an employee was found in possession of her room key. If this is indeed the case he could have removed items from her room that identified her afterwards (phone, glasses, computer, wallet, etc.) and destroyed them or hidden them.


Roger, I can see that happening and don't forget I believe the 2cd Cecil hotel elevator is right next to the one EL was riding on, so security or employee could've rode that elevator to meet her, see what'd going on

If the Chinese reporting claims an employee had her room key, since someone posted the Cecil has actual keys and the Stay Inn, where Elisa was staying, had the key card, that would be huge

And with that I wonder if LAPD checked the Stay Inn's security cams as well, I don't know what they're security tech systems are like, if they have them at all

If the Stay has security cams, even in the hallways, that would verify who possibly went into Elisa's room and intel on her day to day routines/schedule when she came, left, etc

Good work my man!
 
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