CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

[Sillybilly]

In my personal opinion from a lot of observation of people in different fields, there are only a very, very small number of fields where just being a member of that field virtually guarantees at least high intelligence and even in those fields, you can run into a few who aren't super great at their jobs. Most fields in my experience have no lack of people who aren't really great at their job.

<snip>

Your experience reinforces the old saying

"Always remember that 50% of doctors and lawyers graduated in the bottom half of their class"

 

[MesaVerde]

Cleaning a big pot of water which came from a pipe with water from the very same pipe seems so ... ineffective.

Oh, I see what you mean. Well, I think they almost never do it. (Are we talking about the Cecil water tank?) But only if the water is really foul. But they would let the large tank(s) drain out and then flush it with new water coming in from the city with a bunch of chlorine. Then let that flush out and either repeat or fill with fresh water from the city pipes. So they aren't replacing contaminated water with contaminated water. They are replacing contaminated water with water as fresh as it gets from the city water system (granted, that is only so clean but it is what it is).

 

[Deleted member 96356]

Does anyone by chance know the LAPD's detection rate?

These are 2007 statistics, but I think it's an interesting article to get an idea of what the LAPD and LA Sheriff deal with. Please note it refers specifically to homicides, not all crimes.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/homicidereport/2008/02/how-many-2007-h.html

 

[Godsdog]

Lots of photos, PLEASEEEEEEE! To write good profiles, one needs a feeling for the place ...

If we do it I'll bring a camera, or at least my phone. What specific pictures would you want?

 

[noodled1]

I know this whole Speakeasy thing has been discussed numerous times, but has there been a consensus on which Speakeasy she was at?

EL's Twitter's last entry, dated Jan 27 says "SPEAKEASY" (https://mobile.twitter.com/lambetes). Probably a real-time tweet of where she was.

From multiple news sources, I read that EL checked into Cecil on Jan 26. However, that she was booked for four evenings. Since she was apparently supposed to check out on Feb 1st, however, that would make her check in on Jan 28. I believe her Tumblr notes on the 29th that she has arrived in LA (la la land or whatever she called it). While some time delay is possible, I think it'd be more sensible if she checked in on the 28th, possibly late in the evening, and crashed/slept due to her trip from SD. Given her active use of social media, I'd think that she'd provide an update on her whereabouts to Tumblrverse sooner than later. I've seen some postings on the 26 vs 28 check in as well but not sure if there was agreement on this date as well.



So.... I'm guessing she was at a speakeasy in SD then.? The Varnish in downtown LA apparently is 0.1 miles (literally around the block, according to Google Maps) from the Cecil, however.

Curious about these speakeasies. Would this be a place that a girl would go to by herself (with no intention of meeting up with someone)? I know EL frequented coffeee shops on her own. But I'd imagine that lounge bars and cafes are two entirely different scenes.

I've come to believe and this is only me based on a couple articles, then take her tumblr, twitter and the LAPD accounts stir it up simmer and you get

She flew into LA on the 26th, traveled to San Diego and returned to LA on the 28th


As for speakeasy's they're having a revival in LA, basically it's a nicer bar without 50 TV blaring sports

 

[tapu]

here ya go

Awww, look how cute.

 

[Conductor71]

If someone goes to look at the sister's twitter, I immediately recognized, and I think most people would recognize, that when she writes, "NO GLASSES" (with nothing else if you look at the page), she is only giving a label for the picture of her sister that she is linking to the post. I thought she was obviously saying basically, 'Here is a picture of my sister without glasses.'

She was posting pictures of her sister because she was hoping somebody would recognize her. The sister was missing at the time. So she posted a picture with glasses in another twitter, one without glasses in the twitter that said 'no glasses'--trying to help people recognize her sister both ways.

Perhaps, but I don't see the logic in that. Obviously, if she posts two pics of her sister even on different days, tagging both as her sister is enough information. Most people would be able to make the intellectual leap that she did not always wear her glasses. To me it is stating the obvious, but what your are saying is plausible. BTW, I could not check the context of the tweet as there was no link included.

If she did label the pic as "NO GLASSES" merely for ID purposes that does not mean she did not have her glasses with her on this leg of the trip.

 

[Sillybilly]

If I were a family member of someone who went missing and then found dead, I'd definitely be hiring a private investigator, no matter who the police were. Especially because in this day and age, it seems that there is often 'coverup' of sorts, by many involved in an investigation. Not that every investigation is crooked, but just wanting to be sure that everything gets covered for my family member. That's how I'd handle it. IMO

Wouldn't surprise me that they have private investigators helping, and IMO, they would be wise to do so.

WRT a potential "coverup", i think they'd be hard-pressed to go this route, given international involvement of RCMP and Interpol.

I've wondered if Elisa's family or the RCMP had an observer / representative attend the autopsy or possibly even request an independent autopsy.

MOO

 

[Myst]

It seems there are quite a few contributors here that are in L.A. I am. I wonder if we should consider doing our own informal group trip to the Cecil? I'm leaving town on the 11th for the rest of the month, but if it's before then or in April I'd be in, provided I didn't have to be alone at any time in there (I got too freaked out on my one solo visit). :blushing:

Wish I lived closer, I'd go! Only with at least one other tho, lol.

 

[Sillybilly]

Perhaps, but I don't see the logic in that. Obviously, if she posts two pics of her sister even on different days, tagging both as her sister is enough information. Most people would be able to make the intellectual leap that she did not always wear her glasses. To me it is stating the obvious, but what your are saying is plausible. BTW, I could not check the context of the tweet as there was no link included.

If she did label the pic as "NO GLASSES" merely for ID purposes that does not mean she did not have her glasses with her on this leg of the trip.

We don't post links to family members social media accounts.

The sister was not labelling the pic. She had two pics of Elisa on her account, off to the left. She only had a total of 10 tweets, and one day she posted what Elisa was known to be wearing when last seen, and the next tweet seemed like an addition/afterthought to that info, simply reading "no glasses".

 

[Conductor71]

I may have missed this boat long ago, but why no vacation pics from her time in LA? I read she had posted a few from San Diego on Facebook, but are there any other pics? I also thought I read she was keeping a travel blog but have not seen anyone discuss that here?

If anyone has seen the FB pics, were they all self shots?

 

[MesaVerde]

I've wondered if Elisa's family or the RCMP had an observer / representative attend the autopsy or possibly even request had an independent autopsy.

I would have. But then I don't give authority figures and others much credit for competence unless they prove otherwise to me so...But I think culturally that a lot of Chinese people tend to not buck the system when it comes to government agencies just because doing that tends to get you jailed or killed where they are from so out of habit and maybe some genetic selection that gets reinforced.

Remember tank man. People always ask, did he get away or did the government arrest him? I think the more practical question is was he killed immediately or was he tortured first? Regarding his kin...Were they sent to work camps or just executed soon after questioning for being related to him? That sort of culture would probably train the average person to be bewy, bewy quiet. (My rabbit hunting impression.)

 

[MesaVerde]

We don't post links to family members social media accounts.

The sister was not labelling the pic. She had two pics of Elisa on her account, off to the left. She only had a total of 10 tweets, and one day she posted what Elisa was known to be wearing when last seen, and the next tweet seemed like an addition/afterthought to that info, simply reading "no glasses".

Actually, that tweet has the picture without the glasses attached to it. Click on the picture link in that tweet and you will see it. And it is the first time she posted that picture. Previous to that, she only posted the one with glasses.

 

[Myst]

Needless to say it didn't work. So when I was leaving his office he tells me, "You know, there are only two kinds of people who can't be hypnotized, mental retards and sociopaths."

That guy was full of it. There are also plain regular folks who cannot be hypnotized because they do not 'allow' themselves to be. IMO

I won't put out the big recycling container that the city passed out this year because I am worried it might hurt the backs of the garbage pick up guys so I use my old little container. And I cut the plastic holders for soda six packs because I am worried ducks will get their beaks stuck in them and die. I drove two baby birds that fell from their tree onto our sidewalk 30 minutes north to a bird rescue after spending an hour trying to find a bird rescue even though my neighbor up the street said just throw them in the woods and let them die. They said one died, one lived. I traveled cross country with a deformed butterfly once and another time tried to help one with a broken wing but couldn't catch it. (You can super glue part of a similar sized wing to it so it can still fly--I saw a video on it on the internet.)

That's so sweet! The world needs more people like you who really care.

My grandpa was not a licensed vet, but back in the olden days everyone in his town brought injured animals (wild or tame) to him, to fix up if he could. He showed me how to take a straw, cut a small part off, slice it up the side, and then put that on a wild bird's hurt leg to splint it. He put the bird in a little box with holes in it, kept an eye on it, then released it into the wild when it was fully healed. Those who didn't make it, he buried under his big oak tree.

 

[MesaVerde]

That guy was full of it. There are also plain regular folks who cannot be hypnotized because they do not 'allow' themselves to be.

I think that is really true. I don't like to be out of control mentally. So I never did drugs. Only drank alcohol a few times in my life and never got pass out drunk. Just because I don't trust people so I always want my wits about me. So the chances of somebody hypnotizing someone with sort of a steel wall around their mind like me is probably slim to none.

That's so sweet! The world needs more people like you who really care.

My grandpa was not a licensed vet, but back in the olden days everyone in his town brought injured animals (wild or tame) to him, to fix up if he could. He showed me how to take a straw, cut a small part off, slice it up the side, and then put that on a wild bird's hurt leg to splint it. He put the bird in a little box with holes in it, kept an eye on it, then released it into the wild when it was fully healed. Those who didn't make it, he buried under his big oak tree.

Thanks! My boyfriend thinks I am stupid for that stuff. Annoys him. Like the trash cans. He was like it is their job to pick those up. Everybody but you is putting them out. I was like, yeah, imagine what picking up that sort of weight over and over all day long every day would do to your back over time? Everybody else can put that out but I'm not going to.

It is like that movie with Michael J. Fox where he is a soldier and the other guys gang rape that girl. Remember that? Just cus everybody else does it, it makes it more okay for you to do it? Um, actually it makes it worse.

Your grandfather sounds nice. Wish he was my neighbor. Seems like not so many people like that around anymore.

 

[GlobalGirlyGirl]

I'll interject my professional opinion here. Yes, we do not know whether Elisa was sane or not during the video. However, given my analysis, along with colleagues, we have all stated that no rational individual would act that way in the elevator (obviously there are exceptions) under duress the same way Elisa did. If you consider the whole video, there are aspects that do not add up to a threat being present.

I am not even close to being a professional. It looks like to me that she was startled or ran into someone that gave her the creeps. Not necessarily a threat at that point. It looked like she felt she talked her way out of it, and turned around, exiting to the left.

I don't know. It's just my interpretation.

 

[MesaVerde]

Hollow tree rings no bell.

This video shows the tree that they were put in. Sort of reminds me of this case in a way. The video doesn't mention the family dog, but the dog was in the tree as well. Nice guy. Here is an excellent article about him that gives a sort of profile of him--it is the link above the video. I think this is the sort of person they should be looking for in Elisa Lam's case as well.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2010/11/21/murdersuspectwaslongonabadpath.html

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuvPDqcu7W8"]Missing Ohio Family Murder Victims Concealed Inside Hollow Beech Tree - YouTube[/ame]

You actually think "nice dumping grounds", better I don't take a too close look.

I do that too. I also think things like, why do those neighbors keep to themselves so much and isolate their kids? What is going on in that house?

 

[kingsway]

I agree with you to an extent. However, a nurse is still exposed to patients, and undergoes significant medical schooling. To say that they do not have the ability to diagnosis in some professional capacity would be wrong.

As an extreme case, it's like saying a construction worker would know how to design a building "in some professional capacity". A doctor goes through many false positives daily and even they are unable to correctly diagnose illnesses sometimes.

I'll interject my professional opinion here. Yes, we do not know whether Elisa was sane or not during the video. However, given my analysis, along with colleagues, we have all stated that no rational individual would act that way in the elevator (obviously there are exceptions) under duress the same way Elisa did. If you consider the whole video, there are aspects that do not add up to a threat being present.

I don't know what your profession is, but I think this is the crux of the disagreement. Does a video with no sound, or other context cues qualify as reliable evidence to think she was "probably" experiencing psychosis?

I agree, a threat may not be present in the video at all. But that doesn't mean she wasn't acting rationally. Let's examine her actions and give rational explanations:

• Pressing multiple buttons - someone who doesn't want someone to know what floor they're going to may do this. Someone may do this just for *advertiser censored* and giggles. Someone may do this if they're playing a game of some sort. (although I find this unlikely, unless she's "played this game" before)
• Looking out the door both ways - if someone expects the door to close, and it doesn't, they may assume someone was holding the button from the outside and check
• Standing in the corner - someone who doesn't want to be seen, or someone who is angling at a better look at the outside button, making sure it's not being pressed
• The hop-step outside the elevator - used commonly by people wanting to make a noise with their feet, to make their presence known, especially if you suspect someone is hiding.
• Hands on her head outside the elevator - "What do I do now?" or "I think I'm getting paranoid" Non-crazy people do this too.
• Pressing the buttons again - "Why won't this stupid elevator work, damnit!"
• Swimming gestures - she could be talking to someone or to herself. It could indicate she's telling someone she can't see, or she could be pointing to the elevator as she's talking. It could mean a number of things - some people use a lot of hand gestures when they talk. Ever see a flamboyant gay man? Without audio, it's impossible to tell. It's like watching a movie without audio.
• Holding her fingers - normal people do this to emphasize points, either to themselves or to others

Because you don't know, and you better be able to consider that people do things that their friends or family would never suspect. I've seen it in literally dozens of terrorism cases - and that is fact, not speculation.

Doing something is one thing, but there needs to be a basis for it. How do I know you aren't a terrorist? I can rule out the likelihood based on your past behavior. I can see you have no motive. Or that you don't have the capability. Considering every single possibility is a waste of time.

I could not find your theory. If you have a moment link it up to me, and I'd be glad to go over it and either agree or debate it with you.

Thanks mate.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8968340&postcount=29"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5[/ame]

 

[Xavier]

I don´t think that guy has nothing to do with it. I have also been reading those chinese pages on that forum. This is what he said:
"Well apparently some strange coincidences are making people believe that I murdered a girl namned Elisa Lam. Last year I posted a video while chilling at the Cecil Hotel in Los Angeles. Apparently some time after I was there someone killed a girl in that same place (you can find the video on my channel)." and "I posted this music video preview YouTube of my band Slitwrist where a girl appears to be dead, and now people are playing Detective and trying to tie me into a murder case..."

Walklikeacat --this video you posted does not work

 

[Xavier]

This video shows the tree that they were put in. Sort of reminds me of this case in a way. The video doesn't mention the family dog, but the dog was in the tree as well. Nice guy. Here is an excellent article about him that gives a sort of profile of him. I think this is the sort of person they should be looking for in Elisa Lam's case as well.

http://www.toledoblade.com/State/20...er-suspect-known-as-loner-who-took-risks.html

Missing Ohio Family Murder Victims Concealed Inside Hollow Beech Tree - YouTube



I do that too. I also think things like, why do those neighbors keep to themselves so much and isolate their kids? What is going on in that house?

That dude's one sick puppy...sheesh