CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

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I agree. Looking back to the start of this thread and going through it, you can actually see how things have changed. A big problem was that Jose Menendez was wealthy and powerful; people were afraid of him, even his family members. It's interesting that the family members who support Lyle and Erik (at this point, there's only one that doesn't) have stated that they forgive the brothers for killing their parents, but they don't forgive the parents for abusing their children. That says so much.

Yes it's hard for me to re-visit this case. A friend of mine took her life because her parents abused her so heavily (it was a combination of religious abuse and heavy neglect. Plus her mother repeating very unhealthy behaviors with her.) Domestic abusers really enjoy inflicting pain on their partners, offspring and even the pets of the household.

Also the lawyer for the brothers was demonized publicly but she obviously knew things the public did not.

Another reminder to cherish and protect children.
 
Yes it's hard for me to re-visit this case. A friend of mine took her life because her parents abused her so heavily (it was a combination of religious abuse and heavy neglect. Plus her mother repeating very unhealthy behaviors with her.) Domestic abusers really enjoy inflicting pain on their partners, offspring and even the pets of the household.

Also the lawyer for the brothers was demonized publicly but she obviously knew things the public did not.

Another reminder to cherish and protect children.
I'm so sorry for your loss. It's so tragic, and probably not unusual, sadly. Having survived an abusive childhood myself, there were times when I thought about ending it all, but fortunately, I never did. I still live with the effects of trauma today, but I'm grateful to be alive and I've never been suicidal since.

Jose was abusive to animals as well, specifically some of the family pets. Not really surprising.

Of all the defense attorneys in this case, Leslie Abramson was singled out the most for ridicule and attacks (and the judge was biased against her). She was outspoken and stood her ground, and I think so much of the criticism she received was rooted in misogyny. If she was male, she wouldn't have been attacked nearly as much, in my opinion. She has also been badly portrayed in many documentaries, but she was ahead of her time. And she saw herself as the mother that Lyle and Erik never had.
 
Andres "Andy" Cano (July 14, 1973 - January 18, 2003) was the youngest son of Jose Menendez's sister, Marta Cano. He and Erik were close growing up (or at least as close as they were able to be). On the few occasions Erik was permitted to stay over at Andy's house, he told Andy, "You're so lucky to have a lock on your door" (referring to Andy's bedroom door). In both trials, Andy testified to an incident that took place when he was 10 and Erik was soon to be 13. They were playing in the fields behind Andy's house and Erik told Andy that Jose had been touching him inappropriately, and swore Andy to secrecy. Unfortunately, Andy never forgave himself for not coming forward about the sexual abuse sooner, even though he was a child at the time, and he battled depression for the rest of his short life. In January 2003, Andy visited his father, Peter Cano (who testified in the first trial about an incident that occurred when Lyle was six years old and was punched in the stomach by his father) in Puerto Rico, and visited friends in Costa Rica. Andy had been having trouble sleeping and had left his medication at his father's house, so he went to a pharmacy, and was told not to take more than two capsules in a single doese, but Andy hadn't been able to sleep for three days and he took four. He never woke up. There is some debate about whether or not it was an accidental overdose, but either way, it's so tragic. His mother Marta later found among his belongings a letter that Erik wrote to Andy in late 1988 that corroborated the sexual abuse, at least in the sense that Erik was afraid of Jose coming into his room at night. This letter, along with Roy Rosello's allegations, was included in the hapeas corpus petition.

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Andy visiting Erik at Folsom state prison in 1999, at Erik's wedding
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Andy and his mother Marta
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Andy's grave marker in the Our Lady Queen Of Peace Cemetery in Royal Palm Beach, Florida. His father Peter, who passed away in 2011, is buried next to him.
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An excerpt of the letter that Erik wrote and sent to Andy in 1988

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***Mild Trigger Warning*** An excerpt of Andy's testimony from the first trial

 
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Kitty with Lyle and Erik
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Jose and Kitty with Lyle and Erik

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Yes, Lyle and Erik loved their parents, and they miss them. Despite the abuse and trauma, they desperately wanted, and to a degree, still want their parents' love and approval. On direct-examination during the first trial, Lyle said of Jose, "I miss the bond that I had with him." When he was asked by his attorney Jill Lansing if he felt he had betrayed his father by revealing the sexual abuse, Lyle replied, "I have betrayed him." Lyle also mourns the love that he never felt that he got from his mother, who seemed to resent him because Jose focused so much on him, the first born son. When Erik was asked by his attorney Leslie Abramson what he loved most about Kitty, his face lit up and he said, "Her smile." Even though Kitty was often cruel to Erik at times, she seemed to prefer him to Lyle. Other than when he had to testify in the trials, Erik refuses to say anything negative about his mother; he desperately wants to believe that she loved him. Erik felt that he was a disappointment to his father and was never good enough. "Why can't you be more like your brother?" is what Jose would often say to him.
 
Erik and his grandmother, Maria Carlota Lliano Navarro Menendez (December 8, 1917 - March 5, 2009). She was the first woman inducted into the Cuban Hall Of Fame, due to winning five gold medals for swimming in 1935 at the Central American and Caribbean Olympics (Erik inherited her talent in swimming). Lyle and Erik's grandfather, Jose "Pepin" Menendez Pavon, was a pro soccer player.

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Although Maria stood by her grandsons until the day she died (her husband predeceased her in 1987) she was never happy about the family secrets being revealed. She did not testify in either trial and did not agree to be interviewed by either side (although she occasionally spoke to prosecutor Pamela Bozanich to give her "tips" about the family lifestyle, which is bizarre considering that the prosecution was seeking the death penalty against her grandsons), and told her daughter Marta Cano when she was preparing to testify, "You will kill your brother twice." Erik would tell Dr. William Vicary, the psychiatrist who treated him at the L.A. County Jail, that as much as he loved his grandmother, she had an "evil side". It wasn't until after her mother's passing that Marta felt comfortable enough to share another dark family secret, something she had witnessed several times as a young girl in Cuba. Marta saw her mother fondle Jose when she was changing his diaper on more than one occasion. Beginning when he was three years old, Jose was placed in his mother's bed every morning by his father while he dropped his daughters at school and went to work. This continued until Jose turned six, then he was enrolled at a school that started at 1:30 pm. Maria was, according to Marta, "obsessed" with Jose. She never disciplined him and let him run wild, but also controlled him. This explains his adult behavior in many ways. He was kicked out of several schools, frequently bullied other children, and masked his feelings of insecurity by behaving as if he was superior to others.

Mary Louise "Kitty" Andersen and her brother Brian Andersen (who died October 2, 2017).
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Their father Charles "Andy" Andersen, was violent toward their mother, Mae Maloney Andersen; it wasn't uncommon for him to beat her in front of the children. Brian and his brother Milton were also on the receiving end of their father's abuse (which is strange since they refused to believe that their nephews were abused by their parents). Charles and Mae eventually divorced, which was a big scandal in the 1950s, especially in a small town. Kitty felt ostracized and her mother became an alcoholic and emotionally dependent on her youngest child. This explains Kitty's attitude that "Divorce is the worst thing that could happen to a woman" and even told her sons at one point, "My parents' divorce ruined my childhood." She would later tell her therapist that she had married a man just like her father, "the very man I tried to run away from." She refused to divorce Jose, even though he was unfaithful, abusive to her at times, and abusive toward their children. Kitty took her anger and frustration out on Lyle and Erik. Charles remarried and changed his ways, and while Kitty still had contact with him during her adult life (he passed away before the first trial), she never forgave him for divorcing her mother and leaving the family. The alcoholism is also a cycle that would repeat with Kitty, as well as depression, and there were times when she became emotionally dependent on Erik, just as her mother had been on her. Kitty's sister Joan married at seventeen, perhaps to escape that chaotic home life. The following year, Kitty was abruptly sent away to boarding school, and this led Joan to believe that Kitty was sexually abused, possibly by a family member. Sadly, sending abused children away was common practice at the time, which often compounded the sense of trauma and shame.

In the first trial, the defense had wanted to have family members testify about Jose and Kitty's early lives, to show how the cycle had repeated, but the prosecution objected, claiming it was "too remote" to be relevant, and the judge agreed. It's unfortunate because that kind of background information is crucial to understanding the cycle of abuse.

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Erik's girlfriend from Calabasas High School, Kirsten Smith, testified for the defense in the penalty phase in the second trial. She pleaded with the jury to spare Erik's life, and she stated that he was a kind and warm person. She also relayed an incident that was corroborative of the sexual abuse.

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Kitty with Lyle and Erik
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Jose and Kitty with Lyle and Erik

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Yes, Lyle and Erik loved their parents, and they miss them. Despite the abuse and trauma, they desperately wanted, and to a degree, still want their parents' love and approval. On direct-examination during the first trial, Lyle said of Jose, "I miss the bond that I had with him." When he was asked by his attorney Jill Lansing if he felt he had betrayed his father by revealing the sexual abuse, Lyle replied, "I have betrayed him." Lyle also mourns the love that he never felt that he got from his mother, who seemed to resent him because Jose focused so much on him, the first born son. When Erik was asked by his attorney Leslie Abramson what he loved most about Kitty, his face lit up and he said, "Her smile." Even though Kitty was often cruel to Erik at times, she seemed to prefer him to Lyle. Other than when he had to testify in the trials, Erik refuses to say anything negative about his mother; he desperately wants to believe that she loved him. Erik felt that he was a disappointment to his father and was never good enough. "Why can't you be more like your brother?" is what Jose would often say to him.

I find it difficult to respect parents who favor one child over another. It's not right. That's not the way it's supposed to be. I cannot imagine the anguish these two brothers endured. Sure they had money, lots of it. But, it came at a steep price.

I believed every word Erik testified to in court. I know murdering their parents was wrong. They must have felt trapped, suffocated with the overbearing Jose. Kitty did not protect them from him.

Every wrong thing that had been done to them in the past exploded that fateful evening. I was shocked to learn Lyle went out to reload and came back to shoot his mom in her face even though he was the favored child.
 
Well, I guess I spoke too soon. Prosecutor Pamela Bozanich will be appearing in a new docuseries about the case (excerpts of which are featured in this video). It's bad enough that she still claims that there was no abuse, but she has made a point of continually spreading misinformation for years. Why can't she just admit that she was wrong? On the positive side, there are very good and promising things about the case that is discussed in this video.

 
It looks like that at least at one point in this new docuseries (Menendez Brothers: Victims Or Villains) one of the myths perpetuated in this case (which has been repeated by Pamela Bozanich, even though she knows it's not true) is that Jose and Kitty were sitting on the couch in the den, eating bowls of ice cream and strawberries when they were shot, will be debunked. I don't know where this originated from, but I know it was brought up by the prosecution in the first trial, and Dominick Dunne ran with it in his Vanity Fair articles. It has become so persuasive and commonly repeated that many people cite it as if it is fact; it also doesn't help that the two television movies inspired by the case that aired between the trials in 1994 showed the actors playing the parents eating ice cream in the den when the shooting began.

James Farentino and Jill Clayburgh as Jose and Kitty Menendez in Honor Thy Father And Mother (1994)

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Edward James Olmos and Beverly D'Angelo as Jose and Kitty Menendez in Menendez: A Killing In Beverly Hills (1994)

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The problem is, there is no evidence of this. The crime scene footage taken by the late BHP detective Les Zoeller, as well as his testimony at the first trial, confirms that there was no food in the room, and there was only an empty dessert-style glass with a spoon in it on the coffee table. There was another empty dish from the same set in the kitchen. At some point when the crime scene photos were being taken, one of the other officers brought the empty dish from the kitchen and placed it on the coffee table next to the other one. This shows the incompetency of the Beverly Hills Police and their lack of experience in dealing with crime scenes. I think people like to repeat this myth because it makes the parents look helpless and the brothers look like monsters. Another myth about the shooting that has persisted (thanks in large part to first trial prosecutor Pamela Bozanich) is that Jose was asleep when he was shot and didn't know what was happening, and that Kitty got up and ran around. Again, the evidence suggests otherwise. There were no bullet holes in the couch, which confirms that both parents were most likely standing when the first shots were fired. The wound to Jose's outer thigh suggests that he was standing. Kitty was lying in front of the couch, which suggests that was where she was standing when she was shot. From what I've heard about his docuseries, quite a few myths about this case will be debunked, which is wonderful. If you're outside of the US (like me), you'll have to pay to watch it, but by the sounds of it, it's so worth it!

 
I appreciate reading the thoughts and insights here. I'll posit an unfavorable opinion... I lived in LA when all of this happened and am very well read, I work in the legal world, and still, even after everything has been revealed and/or corroborated, I do not think that anyone deserves to die like this. The parents did not deserve to die like that, and the brothers do not merit death for what they did either IMO. The case still fascinates - its ripples so far reaching, sad, and tragic...
 
I appreciate reading the thoughts and insights here. I'll posit an unfavorable opinion... I lived in LA when all of this happened and am very well read, I work in the legal world, and still, even after everything has been revealed and/or corroborated, I do not think that anyone deserves to die like this. The parents did not deserve to die like that, and the brothers do not merit death for what they did either IMO. The case still fascinates - its ripples so far reaching, sad, and tragic...

The brothers and their attorneys never argued that the parents deserved to die. They were simply trying to explain why it happened. What Lyle and Erik Menendez should have been convicted of was manslaughter, and if they had, they would have been free by now. The conduct of the police, the judge, and the DA's Office in this case was despicable. The prosecutors sought the death penalty against two young men who had no history of violence yet they didn't seek the death penalty against OJ Simpson, who had a history of abusing and stalking one of the people that he killed. The term "the abuse excuse" which was applied to this case was coined by none other than Alan Dershowitz, who has made a career out of defending abusers and predators and shaming abuse survivors. This, coupled with his association with Jeffrey Epstein and the fact that Dershowitz has been accused of sexual assault should be enough to question his motives. There is no reason for the prosecutors or anyone else associated with this case to spread misinformation unless they have an ulterior motive.

The brothers loved their parents and miss them, but they are also impacted by the abuse that they suffered at the hands of their parents. One of the positive things to come out of this case is that with the death of Jose Menendez, he will not be able to victimize anyone else.
 
One of the positive things to come out of this case is that Jose Menendez will not be able to victimize anyone else.
RSBM: Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Respectfully, Jose Menedez is unable to do ANYTHING, including take responsibility, accept restitution, face the consequences, confront his accusers, face those who abused him, etc. etc.

Death is not the answer IMO. So sad and tragic all the way around IMO.
 
RSBM: Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Respectfully, Jose Menedez is unable to do ANYTHING, including take responsibility, accept restitution, face the consequences, confront his accusers, face those who abused him, etc. etc.

Death is not the answer IMO. So sad and tragic all the way around IMO.

The problem with that is that abusers/predators rarely admit responsibility. They will typically deny it. Jose was wealthy and powerful and it's difficult to imagine that he would have been prosecuted. Many people feared him and it's unlikely that these people or any of the evidence that was brought forth at trial would have been revealed when he was alive. Kitty was abusive toward her sons as well, including sexually, and didn't protect her children. She would have had just as much to lose if the abuse ever came out, and it's not unreasonable for Lyle and Erik to believe that their parents would rather kill them than risk the family secrets being revealed. They were mistaken the night that they killed their parents that their lives were in danger, but abusers often pose a threat to their victims, and that doesn't mean that Jose and Kitty wouldn't have killed their sons at some point (abusers killing their victims is far more common).

In terms of the first trial, there was a large amount of corroborative evidence that the abuse happened. Roy Rosello has no reason to make false allegations. He only met Lyle and Erik once years ago when they were kids and he has not had any contact with them since. Rosello has signed a court declaration under penalty of perjury in terms of any evidence he gives to corroborate the account of the brothers regarding Jose being a sexual predator, which further strengthens his credibility, although there is no reason to doubt him anyway.
 
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Yes, I am very aware of what transpired in the trial and since.

Thanks, just wanted to share that it's ok to have different opinions than the majority in case others wanted to post but felt outnumbered.

I stand by my opinion that killing someone is NEVER the answer.
 
Yes, I am very aware of what transpired in the trial and since.

Thanks, just wanted to share that it's ok to have different opinions than the majority in case others wanted to post but felt outnumbered.

I stand by my opinion that killing someone is NEVER the answer.

That's the misconception of this case. It was never argued by the defense that the killing of the parents was justified or that being abused was an excuse to kill. However, abuse is a mitigating factor. The brothers have never claimed that killing their parents was right. They do regret it, they weren't thinking rationally at the time, because of the years of abuse and threats, and because Lyle made the mistake of telling Jose that he would publicly reveal the abuse if he didn't stop sexually assaulting Erik. They realized that their father wasn't about to let them talk or escape; they didn't think they could successfully get away from him (Erik tried to run away when he was 12 and Jose said that he would always find him). It's difficult to understand what it's like to be in that situation, however, the brothers were emotionally stunted and didn't have the proper skills to make it on their own due to their parents' domination. They also knew that their relatives couldn't protect them and didn't think that the police would believe them. Sadly, they were probably right. There isn't a day that goes by when they don't regret killing their mother and father, but they are also relieved that their parents can no longer mistreat them. It's complicated, and not black and white (as the prosecution tried to make it out to be). This is why I'm glad that more information has been revealed.

You don't have to condone the killing of the parents to recognize why this happened and to see that the treatment and sentencing that the Menendez brothers received were unfair. I appreciate your insight.
 
One of my gfriends has that same rug in her newly purchased 1924 home. Except it doesn't have all the border material around it. Must have been popular in that time. (2nd pic)

Think of all the furniture you need to buy to furnish that home. $$$$
 
One of my gfriends has that same rug in her newly purchased 1924 home. Except it doesn't have all the border material around it. Must have been popular in that time. (2nd pic)

Think of all the furniture you need to buy to furnish that home. $$$$
I know right? The house is beautiful but I don't think I could live there, even if I could afford it.
 
As terrible as the prosecutors in the first trial were, the lead prosecutor in the second trial, David Conn (who died in 2006) was even worse. Conn was well aware of the fact that there was evidence of abuse, but he and his co-counsel, Carol Najera (who is now a judge, let that sink in for a moment), conspired with the judge Stanley Wiseberg (who presided over both Menendez trials) to block and/or severely limit defense evidence to ensure a conviction. Erik did testify about the abuse, including the SA, and the events that led up to the killings, but the majority of the corroborative evidence and testimony was not permitted until the penalty phase. This meant that the second trial jurors did not get anywhere near the amount of crucial information that the jurors in the first trial did. Conn became extremely agitated whenever Erik testified about the SA by his father, especially when Erik would cry, so Conn would make a point of asking for a recess (when he wasn't objecting). Worse, on cross-examination, Conn mocked Erik, re-victimized him, and called him a liar. In his closing argument, Conn made the ridiculous and false argument that Jose and Kitty Menendez were loving parents who never abused their children and even went so far as to say that Jose was not a predator. At one point he said, "Did Jose Menendez SA his sons? I submit to you that he did not." He also said that incidents of physical and emotional abuse that were testified to were just the parents "disciplining" their sons. Absolutely disgusting (Conn had two children himself, which makes you wonder what kind of "parent" he was). He likened the defense to a "country club abuse excuse - too much tennis, not enough hugs". In his closing during the penalty phase, he said that the brothers deserved to be put to death and the jurors could make up for OJ Simpson not getting the death penalty by sentencing Lyle and Erik to death. He even said Lyle should be dead because he had "black, dead eyes". Like Pamela Bozanich, Conn lied in interviews and while I'm glad he's dead, there's a part of me that wishes that he was alive so he could face consequences for his horrible actions.

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David Conn and Carol Najera

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In the latest docuseries on the case, Pamela Bozanich stated that people believe the brothers are "stupid" and that jurors are "stupid". Her bitterness in failing to get a conviction in the first trial is very obvious. She also acts as if she has been forced to do interviews on this case when in actuality, she's the only one of the attorneys in either trial who has continually given interviews. The defense attorneys, as well as Bozanich's co-counsel it the first trial, Lester Kuriyama, have been declining interviews for years; Carol Najera occasionally does interviews, and even David Conn didn't do that many when he was alive. Les Zoeller (the lead detective on the case, who died in 2021) also gave many interviews even though like Bozanich he often claimed that the case ruined his life/career, his marriage, made his children distant from him, etc. They made a point of spreading misinformation about the case as well which explains in part why so many myths about it have persisted.
 
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