CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

[Betty P]

Yes. I’m with you.

I clearly remember the trial. I thought they lied about the abuse. The female attorney’s attempts to make her client seem frail and boyish were annoying.

Since then, more facts have come out to indicate that indeed, the father and possibly the mother were abusive. I mean there is usually a reason people become criminals.

Does that mitigate the crimes they committed? It could, for sure. But there are things that sort of mute those mitigators:

1. Premeditation.
2. They were adults who could have left instead of killing their parents.
3. The cold blooded manner of killing.
4. The crazy spending and buying and living large after the murders.

Is it true that they were so twisted by abuse that it turned them into killers? I’m certain. But as a society, we have consequences for criminal activity despite what led to it, for a reason: because unless they were totally insane or forced to kill or actually killing in self-defense (rather than worrying about some future possible harm to themselves), they had a choice. They could have gone to the police, filed for protective orders, etc.

They had a choice not to brutally murder their parents. Our laws aren’t supposed to enable people to take the law into their own hands.

Two episodes in and its so unpleasant to watch.

I remember the case, too. It occupied the news media heavily, and was only replaced by OJ Simpson murdering his wife and Ron Goldman.
I agree with all your points and my opinion hasn't changed. Much of it has to do with how they went about it and how it seemed as much a grab for their parents fortune as revenge for the abuse. They could have walked away, gotten jobs, got their own apartments, etc. and waited for their parents to pass on, to inherit the estate. They certainly should have reported it to police, though admittedly, it would have been difficult to get LAPD or Bev Hills PD to respond. In 1989, there hadn't been much awareness raised about child sexual abuse.

Learning more about possible abuse doesn't change or mitigate the circumstances, though. As you say, it was premeditated, they had other options and they couldn't use an insanity defense. In most cases, wouldn't the killers end up with LWOP? Do they still present a possible threat?

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

Psychiatrists who evaluated the brothers at the time said that their mental growth was stunted and that they had the mental capacity of I believe 8-10 (Erik) and 12-14 (Lyle).

IMO It’s easy to say/think, “why didn’t they just leave.” But they had been abused, isolated, and were taught to mistrust everyone for so long (and starting from such an early age of life). That kind of treatment has an impact on brain development and they likely couldn’t think about the situation rationally like a person who grew up in a safe, loving environment.

There’s also a lot of misinformation regarding the spending spree.
-Family members have said that their spending after the murders was on par for what the family spent beforehand. They grew up rich and always had access to credit cards.
-All of their purchases were approved of by their family. Their uncle was the executor of their parent’s estate and they called him before making any purchases.
-The brothers didn’t think they were inheriting anything. Their parents told them several times they had already been written out of the will. Family and friends testified to this
-The brothers knew they weren’t getting a payout from their father’s multi million dollar work insurance. They knew that their dad skipped taking his physical due to a heart issue he was trying to keep secret. He was scheduled to take the required physical in a few months I believe. The only payout the brothers received was from a personal insurance policy that they weren’t even aware of until after the murders

 

[Seattle1]

I've not watched "Monsters" but I've long believed premeditation and greed over rode any physical/sexual abuse.

These were not children but young men, 18 and 21, and I think they both felt justified in taking the lives of their parents when at the same time feared being written out of the will and thought it best to act sooner than later-- for financial gain.

On Aug 20, 1989, the parents had recently purchased a condo for Lyle at Princeton where he was supposed to return to NJ the following week after being suspended for more than a year, and Erik was a registering freshman in LA.

IMO, the parents were welcoming being empty nesters, and on this fatal date, the sons were actually looking at the best opportunity of their lives to move away from their alleged tormentors. IMO, they desired to make the break but not without the gold!

I remember following the mistrial with the horrible testimony about abuse when 2.5 years of taped calls between Lyle and Norma came out which really put the witness testimony in perspective, including Lyle. I definitely felt played. JMO

Lyle Menendez Agreed to Taping of Phone Calls, Woman Testifies

A San Fernando Valley woman, who befriended Lyle Menendez and for 2 1/2 years taped phone calls she had with him, testified Monday that he freely gave his consent to being recorded because they planned to write a book together.

www.latimes.com

ETA: After 34 years of incarceration, I did support them being considered for release but not for reduced charge of self defense. I'll never believe they murdered in self defense!

 

[gitana1]

Psychiatrists who evaluated the brothers at the time said that their mental growth was stunted and that they had the mental capacity of I believe 8-10 (Erik) and 12-14 (Lyle).

IMO It’s easy to say/think, “why didn’t they just leave.” But they had been abused, isolated, and were taught to mistrust everyone for so long (and starting from such an early age of life). That kind of treatment has an impact on brain development and they likely couldn’t think about the situation rationally like a person who grew up in a safe, loving environment.

There’s also a lot of misinformation regarding the spending spree.
-Family members have said that their spending after the murders was on par for what the family spent beforehand. They grew up rich and always had access to credit cards. -All of their purchases were approved of by their family. Their uncle was the executor of their parent’s estate and they called him before making any purchases.
-The brothers didn’t think they were inheriting anything. Their parents told them several times they had already been written out of the will. Family and friends testified to this
-The brothers knew they weren’t getting a payout from their father’s multi million dollar work insurance. They knew that their dad skipped taking his physical due to a heart issue he was trying to keep secret. He was scheduled to take the required physical in a few months I believe. The only payout the brothers received was from a personal insurance policy that they weren’t even aware of until after the murders

They bought real estate. Super expensive cars. They didn’t have the ability to do that in their own, before that.
And they were mentally competent enough to conduct such transactions.

But let’s go with they were emotionally aged 8-10 and 12-14. What do we think about kids those ages who would do what these two did? In the manner in which they did it?

I’ve heard of kids shooting their parents. Usually one shot. But to open their mouth and insert the shotgun? Or to shoot over and over and over? What 9 or 13 year old does something like that? Premeditated? And what should happen to a child if they do?

Also, when diagnosing them as “emotionally” childlike, does that meant that intellectually they were disabled? Did not have the mental capacity to understand what they were doing? Or the consequences?

IMO, no. They were aware of different options that they could have taken. They knew they could be charged with murder and even sentenced to death if they killed their parents. They understood the finality of death.

I don’t see how their supposed emotional age mitigates the crimes they committed under the circumstances.

ETA: I looked it up. One’s emotional age has to do with their maturity level. Not their intellectual capacity or even their emotional quotient (EQ).

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

They bought real estate. Super expensive cars. They didn’t have the ability to do that in their own, before that.
And they were mentally competent enough to conduct such transactions.

But let’s go with they were emotionally aged 8-10 and 12-14. What do we think about kids those ages who would do what these two did? In the manner in which they did it?

I’ve heard of kids shooting their parents. Usually one shot. But to open their mouth and insert the shotgun? Or to shoot over and over and over? What 9 or 13 year old does something like that? Premeditated? And what should happen to a child if they do?

Also, when diagnosing them as “emotionally” childlike, does that meant that intellectually they were disabled? Did not have the mental capacity to understand what they were doing? Or the consequences?

IMO, no. They were aware of different options that they could have taken. They knew they could be charged with murder and even sentenced to death if they killed their parents. They understood the finality of death.

I don’t see how their supposed emotional age mitigates the crimes they committed under the circumstances.

ETA: I looked it up. One’s emotional age has to do with their maturity level. Not their intellectual capacity or even their emotional quotient (EQ).

As I said in my post, child abuse impacts brain development. Nobody, not even the brothers, has said that they were justified in killing their parents. The reason the abuse is important and brought up is because due to the events that they testified occurred in the days leading up to the murders (threatening to expose their father’s abuse) they thought they were in danger. That might not be the conclusion an average person would make, but to two people who had been abused and threatened their whole lives? I can see how they would genuinely believe that their lives were in danger.

Again, the purchases were approved of by their family. Their uncle, Carlos Baralt, was the executor of their parents estate.

I have not seen or heard anything about either brother opening their father’s mouth and inserting a shotgun.

I also think it’s telling that to this day, both sides of their family believe and support the brothers and want them to be released.

 

[Seattle1]

I think it was worth the watch. I did not follow the case, but knew about it, not a lot, really. So, I watched with open eyes and without preconceived notions.

All of those traits were depicted - the materialism, arrogance, selfishness, manipulation. Also depicted was the abuse, in graphic detail, as told mainly through the brothers’ eyes, but also from relatives and acquaintances, to some degree.

There is no doubt the murders were premeditated. If the abuse by their father was anywhere near what was described, their mother had to know. Maybe they thought no one outside the family would believe them. Very troubling.

They were adults at the time of the murders. That’s the part that I can’t wrap my head around. They had options. They could have gone to authorities. They could have just left. I couldn’t see their actions as self-defense legally, and apparently a jury didn’t either.

Maybe they were abused, and maybe they murdered their parents for financial gain and revenge. Both could be true.

jmo

I perceived Kitty was emotionally abused by her husband if not both physically and emotionally abused but I believe she was murdered by her sons because this was the only way they could inherit 100% of the estate. Mom needed to be eliminated from the probate equation. JMO

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

I perceived Kitty was emotionally abused by her husband if not both physically and emotionally abused but I believe she was murdered by her sons because this was the only way they could inherit 100% of the estate. Mom needed to be eliminated from the probate equation. JMO

Family members testified that the brothers believed they had already been written out of the will before the murders

Per Jose’s sister, Marta Menendez Cano:
“Both brothers wrongly believed that they had been written out of the will, she said, and “were so honestly convinced they got nothing they were not interested in the numbers.””

“Included in the estimates she gave the brothers at the Aug. 24 meeting, Cano said Monday, were assets not part of the probated estate: a $650,000 insurance policy, which was paid to the brothers, and a $5-million policy, which was not paid because Jose Menendez did not take the required physical exam.
At that meeting, she said, Lyle and Erik Menendez believed that their father had written them out of his will. But Cano said she knew better because her brother had told her four months beforehand that he had not altered his will, written in 1981.”

Source: Size of Estate Shocked Brothers, Aunt Testifies : Trial: Judge has not decided if Menendez jurors will hear her testimony--a key piece of evidence in defense's case.

Estate Executor and Uncle Carlos Baralt:

“Baralt said that in June or July, 1989, Jose Menendez, who was his brother-in-law, told him of his plans for the will.

“He wanted to leave Erik and Lyle off the will,” Baralt said. “I did express some concern about how he would tell them. . . . He said he already had.””

Source: Father's Plans to Disinherit Menendez Brothers Described

 

[Seattle1]

Lyle and Eric Menendez shot their father 4 times (he's dying) before putting their gun into their father's mouth (did they have to prop it open) and blowing off the back of his head. Their mother was alive when this happened. That adds emotional pain during death. They shot their mother 10 times before taking a break to reload, then fire the deadly shot. What did they say to each other and to their mother while this was going on?

In more than 30 years, I've never read any such claim as reported here that Jose was shot from inside his mouth! Not even from Lyle's testimony reported below.

By all accounts, the duo shot their father five times, including once at point-blank range with a shotgun aimed at the back of his head. As their mother attempted to crawl away, Lyle shot her in the face with a shotgun. In total, she was shot ten times. The idea was the killings to appear like a mob hit.

From Lyle's testimony:

After firing several shots, Lyle Menendez said, he put the 12-gauge shotgun against the back of his father’s head and pulled the trigger.

“Was he seated or standing?” Bozanich asked.

“I guess I was over him,” he said. “Because I was over a little to the side of the couch.”
“I didn’t put it up against his head on purpose,” he added. ". . . It was just a rush and me firing.”

“When you went to the area behind the sofa and unintentionally put the gun against your father’s head and pulled the trigger, where was your mother?” Bozanich asked.
“She was sort of sneaking around the side of the coffee table,” he said.

“You said your mother was sneaking,” Bozanich said. “Did you think she was going to do something sneaky to you?”

“No. I thought we were in danger still,” he said, adding that something about the sight “caused me to freak out and run out of the room,” to the car, where he grabbed one more shell and loaded it in the shotgun.

“When I went outside to reload,” he said, “I was confused and afraid and I wasn’t thinking even these were my parents. I was thinking, ‘Danger!’ And going through the motions.”
He said he ran back to a room “filled with smoke. You could not see well at all. I could barely see that area that freaked me out and I ran over to it.”

“And then you pulled the trigger?” Bozanich asked.
Lyle Menendez sighed deeply. “Yes,” he said.

Later, Bozanich said, “Your mother wasn’t sneaking. She was trying to get away from being shot to death?”

“I don’t know,” Lyle Menendez said. “I really don’t.”

Autopsy reports indicate that Kitty Menendez was shot 10 times. One of the fatal wounds was a contact wound to the left cheek, meaning she was hit with the gun muzzle against her skin.

Lyle Menendez said he had no memory of the gun muzzle on her face.

He also said he does not remember his mother or father crying out in pain or fear.

Lyle Menendez is due back today for further cross-examination, followed by redirect questioning from his lawyer.

9/24/1993 LA Times

 

[Seattle1]

Little Remains of Menendez Estate, Records Show : Courts: Inheritance of $14.5 million was lost to taxes, lawyers' fees and inflated real estate appraisals, probate files reveal.

The Menendez brothers have said they are broke. It turns out they are right.

www.latimes.com

April 3, 1994

The Menendez brothers have said they are broke. It turns out they are right.
Initially valued at $14.5 million, the Menendez family estate has almost entirely been run through, according to recently unsealed probate records that explain how the millions were lost to taxes, legal fees, inflated real estate appraisals and even bad karma.

[..]


When he was killed, Jose Menendez was the highly paid chief executive officer of Live Entertainment, a Van Nuys-based video distribution firm and a subsidiary of Carolco Pictures, the movie production company. If he had lived, he stood to make a bonus of $850,000 for 1989 alone, the probate files reveal.

Under California law, all his property was split equally with his wife. Under their wills, their sole heirs were their sons.

The estate was first thought to be worth $14,501,342, according to a probate document filed Aug. 22, 1990.

That, though, left out $164 in savings bonds, $30,470 in jewelry and $28,044 in furniture, clothes and personal things that had been overlooked.

The added $58,678 brought the original total to $14,560,020, according to a Nov. 26, 1990, probate filing.

In large measure, according to the court records, the estate was made up of three assets: a mansion in Beverly Hills appraised at $4.8 million, the house in Calabasas appraised at $2.65 million and 330,000 shares of stock in Live Entertainment appraised at $6.58 million.
The remainder included items such as the jewelry, the furniture and oddities such as 16 French francs said to be worth $2.46.

For accounting purposes, the probate files also include in the asset column some $1.3 million in income generated from 1989 through April 30, 1993, the date on which the executors submitted the balance books. No updates have been filed since.

The files also add in gains on stock sales during those four years, bringing the value on the books to a grand total of $16,018,906.

It is that figure--not the $14.5 million estimated in the estate at the time of the killings--from which the calculating is actually done.

The estate has paid $3,906,280 in taxes, most of it in estate taxes.

To defend Lyle Menendez, it spent $740,000. That sum was divided among attorneys Gerald Chaleff, Joel Isaacson and Lansing. To defend Erik Menendez, it spent $755,000. Abramson earned $740,000; Robert Shapiro, the younger brother’s first attorney, earned $15,000. Total in criminal defense fees: $1,495,000.

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

Little Remains of Menendez Estate, Records Show : Courts: Inheritance of $14.5 million was lost to taxes, lawyers' fees and inflated real estate appraisals, probate files reveal.

The Menendez brothers have said they are broke. It turns out they are right.

www.latimes.com

April 3, 1994

The Menendez brothers have said they are broke. It turns out they are right.
Initially valued at $14.5 million, the Menendez family estate has almost entirely been run through, according to recently unsealed probate records that explain how the millions were lost to taxes, legal fees, inflated real estate appraisals and even bad karma.

[..]


When he was killed, Jose Menendez was the highly paid chief executive officer of Live Entertainment, a Van Nuys-based video distribution firm and a subsidiary of Carolco Pictures, the movie production company. If he had lived, he stood to make a bonus of $850,000 for 1989 alone, the probate files reveal.

Under California law, all his property was split equally with his wife. Under their wills, their sole heirs were their sons.

The estate was first thought to be worth $14,501,342, according to a probate document filed Aug. 22, 1990.

That, though, left out $164 in savings bonds, $30,470 in jewelry and $28,044 in furniture, clothes and personal things that had been overlooked.

The added $58,678 brought the original total to $14,560,020, according to a Nov. 26, 1990, probate filing.

In large measure, according to the court records, the estate was made up of three assets: a mansion in Beverly Hills appraised at $4.8 million, the house in Calabasas appraised at $2.65 million and 330,000 shares of stock in Live Entertainment appraised at $6.58 million.
The remainder included items such as the jewelry, the furniture and oddities such as 16 French francs said to be worth $2.46.

For accounting purposes, the probate files also include in the asset column some $1.3 million in income generated from 1989 through April 30, 1993, the date on which the executors submitted the balance books. No updates have been filed since.

The files also add in gains on stock sales during those four years, bringing the value on the books to a grand total of $16,018,906.

It is that figure--not the $14.5 million estimated in the estate at the time of the killings--from which the calculating is actually done.

The estate has paid $3,906,280 in taxes, most of it in estate taxes.

To defend Lyle Menendez, it spent $740,000. That sum was divided among attorneys Gerald Chaleff, Joel Isaacson and Lansing. To defend Erik Menendez, it spent $755,000. Abramson earned $740,000; Robert Shapiro, the younger brother’s first attorney, earned $15,000. Total in criminal defense fees: $1,495,000.

Yes, but as stated in reporting by LA Times (as sources in my previous comment), the brothers believed they were already written out of the will. At least two family members testified to this

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Family members testified that the brothers believed they had already been written out of the will before the murders

Per Jose’s sister, Marta Menendez Cano:
“Both brothers wrongly believed that they had been written out of the will, she said, and “were so honestly convinced they got nothing they were not interested in the numbers.””

“Included in the estimates she gave the brothers at the Aug. 24 meeting, Cano said Monday, were assets not part of the probated estate: a $650,000 insurance policy, which was paid to the brothers, and a $5-million policy, which was not paid because Jose Menendez did not take the required physical exam.
At that meeting, she said, Lyle and Erik Menendez believed that their father had written them out of his will. But Cano said she knew better because her brother had told her four months beforehand that he had not altered his will, written in 1981.”

Source: Size of Estate Shocked Brothers, Aunt Testifies : Trial: Judge has not decided if Menendez jurors will hear her testimony--a key piece of evidence in defense's case.

Estate Executor and Uncle Carlos Baralt:

“Baralt said that in June or July, 1989, Jose Menendez, who was his brother-in-law, told him of his plans for the will.

“He wanted to leave Erik and Lyle off the will,” Baralt said. “I did express some concern about how he would tell them. . . . He said he already had.””

Source: Father's Plans to Disinherit Menendez Brothers Described

Perhaps I am misreading portions of this. IANAL. RSBMFF:

“He wanted to leave Erik and Lyle off the will,” Baralt said. “I did express some concern about how he would tell them. . . . He said he already had.””

IIUC, if EM and LM believed they were written out of the will, then that might well appear to satisfy a key element of motive for why as others noted up thread that JM and KM were both slain. That would then remove or eliminate either potential owner(s) or designee(s). MOO

 

[gitana1]

Little Remains of Menendez Estate, Records Show : Courts: Inheritance of $14.5 million was lost to taxes, lawyers' fees and inflated real estate appraisals, probate files reveal.

The Menendez brothers have said they are broke. It turns out they are right.

www.latimes.com

April 3, 1994

The Menendez brothers have said they are broke. It turns out they are right.
Initially valued at $14.5 million, the Menendez family estate has almost entirely been run through, according to recently unsealed probate records that explain how the millions were lost to taxes, legal fees, inflated real estate appraisals and even bad karma.

[..]


When he was killed, Jose Menendez was the highly paid chief executive officer of Live Entertainment, a Van Nuys-based video distribution firm and a subsidiary of Carolco Pictures, the movie production company. If he had lived, he stood to make a bonus of $850,000 for 1989 alone, the probate files reveal.

Under California law, all his property was split equally with his wife. Under their wills, their sole heirs were their sons.

The estate was first thought to be worth $14,501,342, according to a probate document filed Aug. 22, 1990.

That, though, left out $164 in savings bonds, $30,470 in jewelry and $28,044 in furniture, clothes and personal things that had been overlooked.

The added $58,678 brought the original total to $14,560,020, according to a Nov. 26, 1990, probate filing.

In large measure, according to the court records, the estate was made up of three assets: a mansion in Beverly Hills appraised at $4.8 million, the house in Calabasas appraised at $2.65 million and 330,000 shares of stock in Live Entertainment appraised at $6.58 million.
The remainder included items such as the jewelry, the furniture and oddities such as 16 French francs said to be worth $2.46.

For accounting purposes, the probate files also include in the asset column some $1.3 million in income generated from 1989 through April 30, 1993, the date on which the executors submitted the balance books. No updates have been filed since.

The files also add in gains on stock sales during those four years, bringing the value on the books to a grand total of $16,018,906.

It is that figure--not the $14.5 million estimated in the estate at the time of the killings--from which the calculating is actually done.

The estate has paid $3,906,280 in taxes, most of it in estate taxes.

To defend Lyle Menendez, it spent $740,000. That sum was divided among attorneys Gerald Chaleff, Joel Isaacson and Lansing. To defend Erik Menendez, it spent $755,000. Abramson earned $740,000; Robert Shapiro, the younger brother’s first attorney, earned $15,000. Total in criminal defense fees: $1,495,000.

“Police sources told the Los Angeles Times that a gun barrel was thrust into José’s mouth after he’d already been shot four times, and a final blast blew off the back of his head.”

Twisted truth behind Menendez brothers' story may free them after 35 years

Nearly 35 years into their incarceration, new evidence has been uncovered that could prove the brothers were victims of vile sexual abuse at the hands of their father.

www.1news.co.nz

It’s also in a 1989 LA Times article but that’s behind a paywall.

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

“Police sources told the Los Angeles Times that a gun barrel was thrust into José’s mouth after he’d already been shot four times, and a final blast blew off the back of his head.”

Twisted truth behind Menendez brothers' story may free them after 35 years

Nearly 35 years into their incarceration, new evidence has been uncovered that could prove the brothers were victims of vile sexual abuse at the hands of their father.

www.1news.co.nz

It’s also in a 1989 LA Times article but that’s behind a paywall.

I don’t believe this was ever said or brought up at trial by either prosecution or defense

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Psychiatrists who evaluated the brothers at the time said that their mental growth was stunted and that they had the mental capacity of I believe 8-10 (Erik) and 12-14 (Lyle).

IMO It’s easy to say/think, “why didn’t they just leave.” But they had been abused, isolated, and were taught to mistrust everyone for so long (and starting from such an early age of life). That kind of treatment has an impact on brain development and they likely couldn’t think about the situation rationally like a person who grew up in a safe, loving environment.

There’s also a lot of misinformation regarding the spending spree.
-Family members have said that their spending after the murders was on par for what the family spent beforehand. They grew up rich and always had access to credit cards.
-All of their purchases were approved of by their family. Their uncle was the executor of their parent’s estate and they called him before making any purchases.
-The brothers didn’t think they were inheriting anything. Their parents told them several times they had already been written out of the will. Family and friends testified to this
-The brothers knew they weren’t getting a payout from their father’s multi million dollar work insurance. They knew that their dad skipped taking his physical due to a heart issue he was trying to keep secret. He was scheduled to take the required physical in a few months I believe. The only payout the brothers received was from a personal insurance policy that they weren’t even aware of until after the murders

Respectfully, are there links for the four cited elements above of ‘misinformation’ given surrounding the spending spree? This would help to assess and consider the claims. Thank you in advance. MOO

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Family members testified that the brothers believed they had already been written out of the will before the murders

Per Jose’s sister, Marta Menendez Cano:
“Both brothers wrongly believed that they had been written out of the will, she said, and “were so honestly convinced they got nothing they were not interested in the numbers.””

“Included in the estimates she gave the brothers at the Aug. 24 meeting, Cano said Monday, were assets not part of the probated estate: a $650,000 insurance policy, which was paid to the brothers, and a $5-million policy, which was not paid because Jose Menendez did not take the required physical exam.
At that meeting, she said, Lyle and Erik Menendez believed that their father had written them out of his will. But Cano said she knew better because her brother had told her four months beforehand that he had not altered his will, written in 1981.”

Source: Size of Estate Shocked Brothers, Aunt Testifies : Trial: Judge has not decided if Menendez jurors will hear her testimony--a key piece of evidence in defense's case.

Estate Executor and Uncle Carlos Baralt:

“Baralt said that in June or July, 1989, Jose Menendez, who was his brother-in-law, told him of his plans for the will.

“He wanted to leave Erik and Lyle off the will,” Baralt said. “I did express some concern about how he would tell them. . . . He said he already had.””

Source: Father's Plans to Disinherit Menendez Brothers Described

"The police learned about Kitty's computer from Glen Stevens, a friend of Lyle's. Glen told the police that Lyle had told him that he erased the new will and called a computer expert to ensure that no one would be able to retrieve the computer file."

The Investigation — The Menendez Brothers, notorious killers of their parents Crime Library — Crime Library

The Menendez Brothers, Lyle and Erik, cold-bloodedly murdered their parents for money. It took two trials before they were convicted

www.crimelibrary.org

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I just watched Menudo and Menendez on Peacock. Roy from Menudo reports that he was repeatedly raped by Edgardo Diaz, the manager of the boy group. The 'genius' manager would retire the boys from the group when they were 16 years old and rotate new young boys, around 13 years old, into the group as the existing Menudo members aged out. They were signed in the USA for $30 million dollars by Jose Menendez when he was at RCA records. Roy reports that Menudo's manager told him that he was to meet with Jose Menendez on a certain date. Roy was picked up by a limo and brought to the Menendez home in New Jersey where he was served a large glass of wine at 13 years old. Roy was then brought up to a bedroom to audition, where he doesn't remember much blacking out, but he had rectal bleeding and pain for one week after. He reports another rape by Jose Menendez some time later.
This is the first time I've heard of an outside source claiming that JM was a pedophile. The interview was compelling IMO.
Mark Geragos has received this info and is taking it to the courts to see if he can get them a new trial.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I haven't heard that Kitty was sexually abusive and I'm in the middle of looking for verification of that, but I've read that she was verbally abusive and cold with the boys, jealous of the time JM spent with them at their sports events, etc.

Update: I did find an article that stated that Jose and Kitty sexually abused the boys according to the boys.

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

Perhaps I am misreading portions of this. IANAL. RSBMFF:

“He wanted to leave Erik and Lyle off the will,” Baralt said. “I did express some concern about how he would tell them. . . . He said he already had.””

IIUC, if EM and LM believed they were written out of the will, then that might well appear to satisfy a key element of motive for why as others noted up thread that JM and KM were both slain. That would then remove or eliminate either potential owner(s) or designee(s). MOO

How? If they both believed they had already been written out of the will, killing their parents wouldn’t do anything to help them get back into the will. It would just ensure that they would get nothing

 

[gitana1]

How? If they both believed they had already been written out of the will, killing their parents wouldn’t do anything to help them get back into the will. It would just ensure that they would get nothing

But it would be revenge.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I read about the trial at the time, and at no time did I believe the stories from the brothers that their parents were abusive. It seemed obvious at the time that the brothers were unhappy with the high expectations set by their father, and they wanted their parents' money without the work.

Easy way out - kill their parents, forget about studying and working, and enjoy the easy life.

Their lawyer was creative in terms of concocting a defence, but neither brother played the victim role well.

I agree with you and that was always my feeling. Now I saw another documentary where a boy group member has claimed that Jose Menendez raped him twice and it's got me thinking because this is the first independent person to make similar claims. I've been reading Robert Rand's book and all kinds of pro and con material.
Most importantly though, I think the fact that two people, in their 40's, murdered while asleep on a couch means that there has to be some really compelling evidence for Lyle and Erik to deserve another trial or freedom.