CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

[Amy0077]

Just to clarify, they were not found guilty in the first trial; it ended in a mistrial.

They're exactly where they belong.

 

[otto]

I have a question to other posters...

One to which I have no opinion yet...
as I have not watched this case as closely as many of y'all have...

This question is merely from curiosity...
Not hinting towards any guilt/innocence of these men...

Do you think they... or either one of them...
would have a desire to kill again should they be let out of prison...

Just wondering....

We know that Lyle and Erik shot their parents, who were watching TV, 5-10 times each. They did this, according to them, because they imagined that their parents might do something in the future.

Specifically, they imagined something might happen, so they slowly and brutally shot two people to death.

In the future, they might imagine that their neighbour or spouse will do something. There is no reason to think they won't shoot them multiple times too.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

We know that Lyle and Erik shot their parents, who were watching TV, 5-10 times each. They did this, according to them, because they imagined that their parents might do something in the future.

Specifically, they imagined something might happen, so they slowly and brutally shot two people to death.

In the future, they might imagine that their neighbour or spouse will do something. There is no reason to think they won't shoot them multiple times too.

I totally agree. They may chalk it up to PTSD or whatever else.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I guess there's a new documentary being released on Netflix from the perspective of the brothers. I think it's airing tomorrow IIRC.
New 'Menendez Brothers' documentary features interviews with Erik and Lyle 'in their own words'

 

[TristanP]

They did not place their gun(s) in Jose's mouth. Lyle testified that he shot Jose in the back of the head. They entered the room in a panicked state of fear and started shooting. Dr. Ann Burgess, an FBI crime scene analyst and criminal profiler, stated that the overkill of the parents corroborates that it was done out of fear. Don't rely on the Monsters miniseries, it is 95% inaccurate and a product of Ryan Murphy's twisted fantasies. There is a reason why Lyle and Erik and their family members are outraged by the miniseries.

Lyle and Erik still viewed Kitty as a threat to their safety, which is why she was shot more times. In addition, Lyle and Erik were not thinking rationally; they were emotionally stunted due to the abuse, and hyper-vigilant, they were also not sleeping well and this also affected their mental state.

Kitty was just as much an abuser as Jose was. This was testified to by both brothers and by multiple family members and teachers. She was verbally, emotionally and physically abusive, and neglected them emotionally and educationally. In addition, Lyle testified that his mother was sexually inappropriate with him, and Erik testified that she would give him genital exams. Family members heard Kitty say that she wished her sons had never been born and they ruined her life, something that both brothers testified that she said to them on numerous occasions. She resented them for taking Jose's attention away from her, especially Lyle, as Jose was particularly fixated on him as he was the oldest and his namesake (Lyle's first name is Joseph, which is an Americanized version of Jose). Jose's sister, Terry Baralt, testified that Kitty was controlling over Lyle's romantic life, and when she and Jose bought the condo for Lyle in Princeton (shortly before the killings) she asked Terry to spy on Lyle at the condo and report back to her, in order to ensure that Lyle's former girlfriend, Jamie, was not living there with Lyle. There was something seriously wrong with this family dynamic and Jose and Kitty had been victimized in their childhoods. It was a cycle that repeated.

The incestuous angle was something that was insinuated by Dominick Dunne and prosecutor Lester Kuriyama, and Ryan Murphy ran with that, but there is no evidence to back that up. Lyle did testify that he sexually abused Erik a few times when they were both under the age of ten, and Lyle was mimicking what his father had done to him. Lyle apologized to Erik in open court for his actions, and they were both extremely emotional.

Please watch the first trial, that will give you far more accurate information.

They entered the living room in a panicked state of fear? And happened to have guns at the same time?

 

[TristanP]

The first trial is available to watch on both YouTube and Court TV's website. The corroborative evidence of abuse was entered as evidence and shown to the juries.

Doing your children's homework does not help them, it hinders them. Lyle and Erik would fail their tests because their homework was being done for them. How did that help them? What makes it worse is that Kitty was also a former grade school teacher. The teachers all knew that Kitty was doing her sons' homework but were too afraid to confront Jose and Kitty. Doing your children's homework doesn't help them learn, and is a form of educational neglect, just as Jose and Kitty refused to get Erik help for his learning problems. It is abuse.

As a parent, it is wrong to make your children live your dreams instead of their own. That is toxic. Your children are not you. This was about Jose getting to live through Lyle regarding attending an Ivy League University. He would also help Lyle with his assignments over the phone, which proved that Lyle didn't get into Princeton on his own merit, but because Jose paid to get him in. That is setting your children up for failure. That is toxic, abusive, and shows that you don't really care about them. You care about appearances, not the child.

Again, spending large amounts of money, which they were accustomed to doing, does not prove it was for money. None of it came from the estate, they had to get approval from their relatives for every purchase they made (if you watch the first trial, this was corroborated by several people, including relatives). They were not free to buy whatever they wanted, and they did seek advice from their relatives regarding purchases. That does not fit with the profile of two greedy kids who were spending money on whatever their hearts desired. If they wanted to kill their parents for money, they would have done it earlier, like when Jose told them they were out of the will months prior, or they would have waited for him to take the physical for an insurance policy through his company, which they knew he had not done at the time of the killings. If you watch the first trial, you will be made aware of this. The money motive was one of many motives that the prosecution was unable to prove.

If they spent that kind of money all the time, why didn’t they have Porsches, Rolexes, and court side NBA tickets all the time?

 

[Snapple11Apple]

They're exactly where they belong.

Why? What makes you absolutely sure?

 

[housewife]

IMO, L & E had their entire adult lives in front of them on Aug 29, 1989-- to walk away forever, "escape" from their "evil parents," live free of abuse, but chose otherwise -- they went for the GOLD because the thought they could get away with it.

RSBM
Eric's future would have been filled with more rape and sexual torture. He did not have an escape. He thought he had a chance by finally going away to college (imagine enduring rape and torture for years waiting for that day to finally come!) But then Jose had not actually submitted a college application that Eric had filled out. The application was found in Jose's belongings after their deaths. He had possibly intended to never send it. He did not want Eric to begin having an independent life.

Jose was certainly going to keep controlling Eric and raping him for as long as he could. Eric realized he had no real escape after all and was shattered. Running away never worked.

I think Lyle was going to reveal the truth of the abuse as a way to escape with his brother--but remembered what abusers tell their victims "If you tell anybody, I will kill you".

If your father has been raping you, using objects, and touching your private areas with pins to cause you pain for years... Yeah, I absolutely would believe he would kill me. It would actually seem inevitable.

No amount of money would replace the feeling of being "safe" in your own home, with your own parents. That is psychological torture and abuse. Frette bedsheets are great but not being raped is better. Foie gras is great but not having to put lemon juice on food because of your father is better.

Ann Burgess was recently interviewed by Dr. Richards and they discussed this case in detail, I highly recommend it.

 

[Really?]

I don’t know why but after 30 plus years in prison, possibly years of abuse from their father I think they should be exonerated. Moo

 

[Noirdame79]

I don’t know why but after 30 plus years in prison, possibly years of abuse from their father I think they should be exonerated. Moo

Agreed. They saved themselves as well as future victims. Moo.

 

[LadyL]

They entered the living room in a panicked state of fear? And happened to have guns at the same time?

then exited the house, reloaded, and RE-Entered the house in a 'panicked state of fear' to finish off the mother

 

[LadyL]

I have a question to other posters...

One to which I have no opinion yet...
as I have not watched this case as closely as many of y'all have...

This question is merely from curiosity...
Not hinting towards any guilt/innocence of these men...

Do you think they... or either one of them...
would have a desire to kill again should they be let out of prison...

Just wondering....

I wouldn't wanna be in a relationship with one of them or live next door.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

then exited the house, reloaded, and RE-Entered the house in a 'panicked state of fear' to finish off the mother

Amazing isn’t it @LadyL …. and so sad and IMO the term often used in cases like this is overkill or a rage killing. As @Amy0077 also said above….. and inserting …. from following this over the years, two trials, seemingly endless legal maneuvering etc. ….. these two are right where they belong. I am looking forward to not watching the latest docu-drama on this case. MOO

 

[otto]

Amazing isn’t it @LadyL …. and so sad and IMO the term often used in cases like this is overkill or a rage killing. As @Amy0077 also said above….. and inserting …. from following this over the years, two trials, seemingly endless legal maneuvering etc. ….. these two are right where they belong. I am looking forward to not watching the latest docu-drama on this case. MOO

Agreed - no interest in hearing what two men, who each killed two people, have to say after spending their entire adults lives in prison with hardened criminals. They chose an ugly life, and their words cannot be anything other than a reflection of that ugly choice.

 

[Chimera]

[bbm]

that shows they were lying and manipulating people from a young age, like most sociopaths

Agreed, because they were basically attempting to force their teachers into giving them good grades out of compassion.
They were old enough to walk away from that house.
They didn't need to murder their parents.
I believe the courts decision was correct.
Omo.

 

[housewife]

Respectfully, the threats from their parents were only from the brothers and I didn't find them credible.

Abusers often threaten their victims so the abuse remains a secret.

 

[LadyL]

Abusers often threaten their victims so the abuse remains a secret.

yes and sociopaths often make up lies and gaslight people into thinking they're the victims

 

[housewife]

If Gisèle Pelicot shot her husband to prevent more rape from happening again, I wonder if people would be more compassionate because she's a woman.

Both Gisele and the M brothers were raped repeatedly for years.
Both Gisele and the brothers had pornographic photos taken of them.
Both patriarchs are sexual sadists.

Gisele had the benefit of age, the brothers didn't.

 

[otto]

Abusers often threaten their victims so the abuse remains a secret.

This isn't about children who are intimidated by authority. These two men, aged 18 and 21 at the time of the murders, had their entire lives ahead of them. They should have done what many people age 18-21 do: get a job, find a place to live, build a life and a future for themselves. I don't believe for a moment that two athletes with active social lives couldn't figure that out.

There's has long been a debate about whether murderers can blame an unfortunate childhood on their decision to kill people. Many have tried. The answer is no. Ted Bundy cannot blame his childhood family dysfunction for his decision to kidnap, torture, and murder young women.

If Lyle and Erik believe that they were mistreated during childhood, they should have reported their parents. They had options, they made choices, and they should live with the consequences.

 

[otto]

If Gisèle Pelicot shot her husband to prevent more rape from happening again, I wonder if people would be more compassionate because she's a woman.

Both Gisele and the M brothers were raped repeatedly for years.
Both Gisele and the brothers had pornographic photos taken of them.
Both patriarchs are sexual sadists.

Gisele had the benefit of age, the brothers didn't.

Pornographic photos of Lyle and Erik Menendez?

Menendez brothers burst into tears during emotional prison reunion after decades apart

Erik and Lyle Menendez are now both in the same San Diego prison.

abcnews.go.com