CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #1

[LolaMoon08]

Has anyone looked at pics of some of the people he mentions?
This is O/T, but the boy he knew who had a bit part in the Hunger Games (and whose sister ER claimed teased him when he was 13, who is a model now) looks a LOT like Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (Boston Bomber)!
I won't mention names, if you read the manifesto you know who to google.

No. I don't feel that it is right (my opinion only). I don't even like how the Daily Mail published pictures of the first girl (play-mate) he knew... even if her face was blurred out. I think they're going through enough right now. I still think that maybe all the names should have been blacked out from the manifesto.

He had to have named at least 100 people, if not more and I feel it's only right to give them space. They will decide when and IF they want to even address it.

 

[Dmacky]

Oh no. Poor girl. He had a photographic memory for perceived or actual slights. Including something that happened way back - 6th or 7th birthday?

It will be outrageous if this young woman gets the blame for an obviously already existing mental condition in a boy she once knew, in my opinion....

I feel so bad for this girl~ Here is a statement from her father


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...omen-mean-cruel-heartless-creatures-says.html

 

[zwiebel]

California killings: UK-born Elliot Rodger blamed for deaths

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...pect-california-mass-murder-shooting-stabbing

Well.....it's England's fault now? But I did say, way upthread and since, I think he would have been better off in England. Not because I think it would have made an inch of difference to his mental condition, but just because it would be so much harder for him to have obtained a gun. And his 'oddity' would have been more acceptable.

 

[Salem]

No. I don't feel that it is right (my opinion only). I don't even like how the Daily Mail published pictures of the first girl (play-mate) he knew... even if her face was blurred out. I think they're going through enough right now. I still think that maybe all the names should have been blacked out from the manifesto.

He had to have named at least 100 people, if not more and I feel it's only right to give them space. They will decide when and IF they want to even address it.

And we will follow our standard TOS on this issue. If they are not named in MSM, they are not named in this thread. If they are named in MSM, we will change their name to initials so that searches do not hit on this thread.

They are innocent people and they are NOT sleuthable for our purposes here.

Thanks everybody!

Salem

 

[jjenny]

Well.....it's England's fault now? But I did say, way upthread and since, I think he would have been better off in England. Not because I think it would have made an inch of difference to his mental condition, but just because it would be so much harder for him to have obtained a gun. And his 'oddity' would have been more acceptable.

He killed three men with a knife. Not having a gun wouldn't have stopped this one.

 

[Quester]

I suggest exactly that. Identifying kids as early as possible.

Family therapy and working on parenting skills.

Working on how to deal with anger.

This is in my dream world as Americans will not allow it.

What do you suggest?

re: Gardenlady's topic of discussion - I don't have any at the moment. Will chime in when/if I do.

 

[Zuri]

In reading the manifesto, I was struck by ER projection of his inadequacies onto others, grandiosity, blaming, hatred for anyone beautiful but loved beautiful things, manipulation including threats of suicide, immaturity and insecurity. I can't imagine how exhausting he and his behavior was to his family and the few friends he had.
ETA: Also struck by his sense of entitlement, racism, his inferiority complex, and selfishness.

As I read, I kept picturing Sheldon on the "Big Bang Theory", except exponentially worse. His self described tantrums and crying, inability to cope with change, resistance to limits on his behavior, lack of accountability, just to name a few must have been his norm. I found it interesting that he never mentioned his father marrying his second wife, only that she was pregnant and gave birth to Jazz. His account of rescuing Jazz from drowning in the pool lacked emotion and made no mention of his parents reaction to doing so.

I am giving his parents the benefit of the doubt and not blaming them for ER's heinous acts. Sometimes, as a parent, you just do the best you can. I would like to believe that if they had an inkling of what he was about to do, they would have sprung into action. JMV

 

[Flutterby80]

He killed three men with a knife. Not having a gun wouldn't have stopped this one.

I am NOT a fan of firearms, but you are right. He also used his vehicle to run people down. There are lots of weapons to choose from if you are determined to kill.

 

[Paladine]

I was wondering about the evolution, from the killers perpective, of the relationship with Philip, who was, from news reports, also invited down to the apartment that fateful day. I also wondered who the second friend invited might have been. I THINK it was Addison. Here are some quotes that refer to the relationship and also a quote saying the car was his Moms older car after she was given a new one by Jack.

"I needed a skateboard for mother’s house too, and so my mother took me
to Val Surf and bought me a gray Val Surf skateboard. I would use this skateboard much more than the red skateboard I had at father’s house, since I had all of my playdates during mother’s week, and mother would make more of an effort to indulge in my new interest, eventually taking me to skateparks every weekend. I became very excited about my new hobby, and I shared it with James Ellis and Philip Bloeser, my two main friends. I wanted to get them interested in skateboarding as well. It was tricky to get James into it, but he soon got his own skateboard, and we would start skateboarding together around his neighborhood."

9 yrs old, page 19

The Upper playground was rebuilt over the break, and there was a brand new playground to play on. I always loved brand new things, and the new playground was quite engaging. On the very first day that we were allowed to use it, I played tag with Philip B, Addison A, Bryce J, and a few others. I never really became good friends with the so called “cool kids”. I would see them more as competitors than friends. During recess and lunch, I mainly played with Philip and his little clique..."

age 10 page 22

My social life changed somewhat when Mrs. Damart announced that we would have new seating arrangements in class, and the process of deciding on who sits where was up to us. Our class consisted of tables that seated about five to six people, and when our name was called randomly, we could choose anywhere to sit, meaning that everyone had a chance to sit with their group of friends. I didn’t have a core group of friends, so I was thrown into a state of panic. Originally, I was sitting at the table where Philip’s clique sat, but all of their names were called before me, and I was booted from their table. At this point, I just chose to sit anywhere, and I ended up sitting next to John Jo. Matt B and Danny D also sat at our table. These were kids who I regarded as cool, so I was content with sitting with them"

age 10 page 24

"Philip and Jeffrey came over quite a lot as well. Philip was always the mature and insightful brother, while Jeffrey was the wild and funny one. Seeing the two of them together always made for an interesting and excitable mix. Their mother, Kathy, brought them over on weekdays quite often. We drank a lot of soda, ate a lot of candy, and pla
yed with scooters and skateboards around my mother’s neighborhood. I took them to Planet Cyber one time and showed them some of the games there."

age 12 page 36

"Eventually, I lost all contact with Charlie, John Jo, and Elijah. The friends I had such a good times with for the last two years were no longer my friends. They were lost to me. I also stopped seeing Philip and Jeffrey...they simply just forgot about me, I assumed. The only friend who remained to me was James"

age 13, page 40

"As summer’s end drew closer, I became more and more depressed. My life had gotten so lonely, and playing WoW barely made up for it. My mother noticed
this and proposed that I get together with Philip again. She called Philip’s mother Kathy to arrange a meetup. And so Philip came over twice during that summer. I quite liked seeing him again... it was two years since the last time we spoke. Though he had
no interest in my video games, he enjoyed playing in my mother’s swimming pool."

age 16, page 51

"Once I fired up my profile, was able to reconnect with a few friends from Topanga Elementary. I talked to Philip over Facebook, and the two of us made plans to meet up later in the summer after not seeing each other for two years."

age 171/2 or so, page 60

I met up with Philip B after not seeing him for two years. The last time I saw him was during the summer I turned 16. My mother dropped me off at this house, and I wasn’t surprised to find that he was still the exact same person; mature, reserved, a little awkward, and prone to random bouts of hyper energy. Jeffrey was also there, and he was still as wild and boisterous as ever, though he had changed alot in appearance, no longer being the little kid I was so used to seeing him as. Philip already had his driver’s license, so the two of us went out in his car to meet Addison A, who had just moved back to the U.S. and was living with his mother in an apartment in Malibu. Philip and Addison have always been very close friends with each other, and the two of them go everywhere together. I hadn’t seen Addison since Topanga Elementary. At first glance, I didn’t know what to make of him. It was like meeting a whole new person. He had changed tremendously. With his mustache and hairstyle, he looked older than he was, cultivating a refined and sophisticated personality and wearing an elegant blazer coat. As I spent time with Addison that day, I started to enjoy talking to him about politics and the world. He was very intelligent and more informed than other people our age"

age 18, page 61

"Addison invited me to his birthday party. It was a small get - together on the beach in Point Dume, Malibu. I had a very hard time socializing with people, so I ended up drinking too much alcohol. Before Philip drove me home, I vomited outside Addison’s apartment, in front of his mother and everyone else. It was highly embarrassing and I put a lot of effort to block it from my mind afterwards"

age 18, page 62

While staying at the beach house, I invited Philip and Addison over to hang out, as they were always in Malibu together. They came to pick me up, and while I was in the car with them, Addison kept talking about how successful he has been at mingling with the popular kids at Malibu High School. He kept talking about all of the parties he’s been to, and all of the pretty girls he has met. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Addison actually did it. He succeeded in becoming popular at his school. In such a short
time, he was able to accomplish what I’ve been trying to do my whole life. I was extremely jealous. And that was not the worst of it. As I spent more time with them that night, I noticed that Addison’s new status amongst the popular Malibu crowd had
changed his attitude. It made him very cocky and arrogant. He treated ME like a loser
the whole time. Later that night, he ditched me and Philip to go to a party with some girls that he knew from Malibu. I was seething with rage"

age 18, page 64

"After that last experience with Philip and Addison, my attitude changed. My newfound optimism about life subsided, and I began feeling intense anger and hatred towards the world again. The way Addison treated me made me realize what the world thinks of me. If I was one of those popular kids, Addison would have treated me with deference and respect, but I wasn’t. I was a complete loser in his eyes, and everyone else’s. No effort I made in the last few months changed the way the world saw me.
The world still viewed me as a weak and undesirable loser, even though I changed my wardrobe and started working out. What was the point anymore? I asked myself. I couldn’t help but feel anger and hatred. Life was too unfair to me"

age 18, page 64

"I still met up with Philip and Addison occasionally, even though I hated Addison They provided me with a sense of a social life, and a way for me to vent about my troubles. Addison treated me like a lowlife every time I hung out with them, and he kept bragging about the girls he met at parties in Malibu. I indignantly accused him of lying, as that was what I wanted to believe. He was only amused by my envy. I then found that Addison deleted me from his Facebook friends list out of the blue. This was
the last slight I would bear from him, and I subsequently sent him a hateful Facebook message in response. I then viewed Addison as a bitter enemy of mine."

age 18, page 65

"I checked Addison’s Facebook profile with one of my stalking accounts, and I saw that he went to a huge New Year’s party at a mansion with his popular Malibu friends. He took lots of pictures of himself posing with various girls. I hated him so much when I saw that. The level of hatred I felt was unreal. He was doing everything I wanted to do! Why him and not me? I cursed at the world. What was seen can never be unseen, and I will never forget it, nor will I forgive it"

age 18, page 66

"During that same week, I had a climactic meeting with Philip and Addison where my noxious feud with Addison reached a boiling point. We went on an outing to the Griffith Park Observatory,as we usually did when we got together. This time, my arguments with Addison were very intense. I tried to insult him as much as I could, in a petty attempt to get revenge at him for all the insults and slights he dealt to me. We went back and forth at each other for the whole evening, to the chagrin of poor Philip who had to put up with it. By the end of the night, Addison said something to me that was so offensive it will haunt me forever, and it rang true: “No girl in this whole world will ever want to f*ck you.” I already felt that no girl in the world wanted to **** me. I was a kissless virgin after all. That was the sole reason why I was suffering. But to hear it come from someone else, someone like Addison, really caused it to sink into core of my mentality and emotions. That whole night made for a very vile and wicked experience. I decided not to see Philip and Addison for a long time. Because I was no longer seeing Philip and Addison, James was once again my only friend."

age 18 page 68

"Once my official driver’s license came in the mail, my mother told me some good news.
She received a new car from Jack, which meant she could give her older car to me. I no
w had a car of my own to drive. To be able to drive to any place I wanted to go provided me with a new sense of freedom that I never felt before. I felt more like an adult rather than a kid."

age 18 page 68

"Since I was back in father’s good graces, my mother agreed to meet with him and me to talk about my life situation. We had dinner at a Japanese restaurant, where we had a long talk about what I was doing in my life, and what my college plans were. My mother and father both agreed that in order to change my life, I needed to remove myself from my current environment and start anew. Living at my mother’s apartment
was becoming unhealthy, and they thought that things would improve if I had my own place. It was at this moment that we began to form the Santa Barbara plan, in which I would go to college in Santa Barbara and live amongst the students there I realized that I could start college again, now that I had the ability to drive there."

age 19, page 77

I found out about Isla Vista, the small town adjacent to UCSB where all of the college students live and have parties. When I found out about all this, I had the desperate hope that if I moved to that town I would be able to live that life too. That was the life I wanted . A life of pleasure and sex. I talked to my mother about the prospect of going to college in Santa Barbara a few times during my eighteenth year. She thought it was
a good idea; it would certainly free her of the burden of living with me, but we never seriously considered it. Until that day"

age 19, page 77

"Before I left for Santa Barbara, I reunited with Philip and Addison after a very long period of not seeing them. The three of us met up at the Calabasas Commons, and then we went in Philip’s car to Malibu for a few adventures. We ended up settling down at Starbucks and had a few insightful conversations. Addison had changed and matured tremendously, and he was no longer associating with the popular Malibu high school kids. This didn’t change my resentment towards him, and I kept confronting him the whole time about the insulting way he treated me over a year ago. After a lot of debating, we agreed to resolve our conflict with each other. This didn’t mean I forgot all of the slights he dealt to me in the past, however. I never forget. I never forgive. One day I’ll show him how superior I am"

age 19 page 89

Hope the post wasn't too long, I just found the evolution, from the mindset of this killer, to be very interesting.

 

[zwiebel]

He killed three men with a knife. Not having a gun wouldn't have stopped this one.

I agree. I just meant in terms of numbers. We have rampage killers here (there - I forget I'm in Germany!) but without a gun, the numbers of people killed are much less. A man with a knife is more likely to be tackled and stopped. I think three victims might be alive now if ER had not owned three guns.

 

[Salem]

Last time to say this - please pay attention.

Take the political discussions of gun control and violence against women to the Political Pavilion. They don't belong here. This thread is to discuss the crimes of Elliot Rodger.

Salem

PS - it is not that the subjects are not discussable, it is that they are not discussable in THIS thread.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Just bringing this forward for you Gardenlady.

No discussion about gun control. It's off topic for the purposes of this thread.

We used to discuss it in the Political Pavilion until members were unable to discuss reasonably. We will not be continuing that problem here.

Posts were removed. Don't post about it again. :tyou:

Oops. :blushing: I see Salem beat me to it.

 

[Nymeria]

Geesh ~ In all of my life, I had only heard the word "manifesto" used once and it was in relation to Adolf Hitler. But, I said "had" :smile: The second time was the one Jodi Arias had written, and now this lunatic. Raise your hand if any of you have written your own manifesto's :giggle:

Oh My Dmack! Have you forgotten the Unibombers famous manifesto?

I think that was when that word came into my vocabulary

ETA- Just saw Elley Mae beat me to it :giggle:

 

[kaos]

In reading the manifesto, I was struck by ER projection of his inadequacies onto others, grandiosity, blaming, hatred for anyone beautiful but loved beautiful things, manipulation including threats of suicide, immaturity and insecurity. I can't imagine how exhausting he and his behavior was to his family and the few friends he had.

As I read, I kept picturing Sheldon on the "Big Bang Theory", except exponentially worse. His self described tantrums and crying, inability to cope with change, resistance to limits on his behavior, lack of accountability, just to name a few must have been his norm. I found it interesting that he never mentioned his father marrying his second wife, only that she was pregnant and gave birth to Jazz. His account of rescuing Jazz from drowning in the pool lacked emotion and made no mention of his parents reaction to doing so.

I am giving his parents the benefit of the doubt and not blaming them for ER's heinous acts. Sometimes, as a parent, you just do the best you can. I would like to believe that if they had an inkling of what he was about to do, they would have sprung into action. JMV

Even the way he talks of his parents and baby brother, it's always the formal "mother and father" and "the newborn baby boy". Never mom, dad, baby Jazz etc.

I think if he gained access to the sorority house he'd have been in for a real surprise because I think those girls would have fought back and doled out some real humiliation.

 

[Archangel7]

id read the thread and all the info provided.

he was obviously mentally ill. he was not just some Ahole.

No, he had behavioral problems and other things that, uncorrected and empowered, led to him having a skewed sense of the world as his Kingdom.

Aholes can be fixed without drugs, I can absolutely unequivocally guarantee that.

I deal with 14-18 YO boys, street kids, ignored, thrown away by parents and yes some(almost none) as you mentioned are mentally debilitated due to some childhood disease, genetics or some mom with an alcohol or drug problem while pregnant.

Most however only have behavioral problems and typical teenage issues until a shrink gets to them with the Pez dispenser. Then there lives are ruined, no chance for military service, menial jobs, never a security clearance, yada yada. Of course they can lie about their "mental illness" on the job apps. and may even get by with it if nobody ever really checks med. records. and close friends/relatives.

Gov. CAS here is funded by the number of "diagnosed" "mentally ill" they can "get" and guess what, the shrinks get a HUGE client base by diagnosing kids "mentally ill."

Gee, think there's a correlation? And cooperation?

It should be a criminal offense for kids to be treated this way by the Government and the shrinks.

 

[Nymeria]

Repetitive indeed it was! Every single year he mapped out, he would say how the next year would be this huge defining moment and how he would be so viciously tortured and then you'd get to that year and he'd say, he actually enjoyed that year BUT the next year would be this huge defining moment and how he would be so viciously tortured and so on and so forth. I never did get to the year where there was a defining moment or acts of vicious torture. Did you?

OMGawd YES Lola, EXACTLY!

(No, still not gotten to it, but I am just coming up on 8th grade. Took a break to read the thread for a bit. Beautiful sunny day and here I am inside reading his carp :facepalm: ).

 

[Zuri]

One question I had was about KEYT and the manifesto. Was the manifesto brought to the TV station by an acquaintance, emailed by an acquaintance of ER or emailed by ER himself? I am confused on this. TIA

 

[LolaMoon08]

One question I had was about KEYT and the manifesto. Was the manifesto brought to the TV station by an acquaintance, emailed by an acquaintance of ER or emailed by ER himself? I am confused on this. TIA

IF I am not mistaken, ER mailed them all out. I don't know if it was by actual mail or email though? Someone correct me if I am wrong?

 

[Quester]

One question I had was about KEYT and the manifesto. Was the manifesto brought to the TV station by an acquaintance, emailed by an acquaintance of ER or emailed by ER himself? I am confused on this. TIA

The way I read it ...

ER emailed it to a number of people including his parents and just before the massacre.

Then, one of the recipients emailed it to media.

 

[Salem]

If there is a problem with a post, alert it and let the mods take a look at it.

Salem

ETA: Here is the gun control thread in the PP: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community