[Ann] Coulter: Don’t stigmatize murderers
http://www.clarionledger.com/story/...4/05/28/coulter-stigmatize-murderers/9695737/
http://www.clarionledger.com/story/...4/05/28/coulter-stigmatize-murderers/9695737/
CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #2
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CARIIS
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[FONT="]Oh Sh$t! I just posted this on the wrong thread- anyone ever done that god , THen I thougt heck if I have to cut and paste might as well run it through spell check!
RE: Earlier post: I can't quite grasp how anyone who is schooled and trained to look for mental disease and/or defect could be so manipulated by someone like ER. They're trained to catch these things.
He is not a psychopath. His behaviors (killing people and lets not forget he killed himself )to untrained would lead to the conclusion he is one. The narcotic personality disorder stuff I would go with .
But the Aspergers diagnosis IMO is correct, with Major Depression.
Everyone needs to remember is the only thing we know about him started on that Friday night-there is a whole 22 years prior in which he did do college, was articulate etc.
His ultimate end game is the culmination , as a result of suffering with Aus. (relentless rumination).
He did not hallucinate or hear voices. That term is used incorrectly. What he experienced is like what happens to any of us when we get a song stuck in our head - over and over or sitting at a red light thinking about what we have to get done. Neither are hearing "voices"
Hearing voices in the clinical sense is like hearing Darth Vader either in your head , OR like Darth is sitting in the seat next to you talking.
[/FONT]
RE: Earlier post: I can't quite grasp how anyone who is schooled and trained to look for mental disease and/or defect could be so manipulated by someone like ER. They're trained to catch these things.
He is not a psychopath. His behaviors (killing people and lets not forget he killed himself )to untrained would lead to the conclusion he is one. The narcotic personality disorder stuff I would go with .
But the Aspergers diagnosis IMO is correct, with Major Depression.
Everyone needs to remember is the only thing we know about him started on that Friday night-there is a whole 22 years prior in which he did do college, was articulate etc.
His ultimate end game is the culmination , as a result of suffering with Aus. (relentless rumination).
He did not hallucinate or hear voices. That term is used incorrectly. What he experienced is like what happens to any of us when we get a song stuck in our head - over and over or sitting at a red light thinking about what we have to get done. Neither are hearing "voices"
Hearing voices in the clinical sense is like hearing Darth Vader either in your head , OR like Darth is sitting in the seat next to you talking.
[/FONT]
Aww, how cute, Ann Coulter is making diagnoses. *sarcasm* ^_^
CARIIS
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[FONT="]R e[/FONT]We're not privy to those records and we might not ever be
I don’t think we ever will. I think what is going to start coming out is well get some differing diagnosis along his lifelong involvement with therapy. Your guys need to be "fair"(!) to us. A client in one year can "present" in one fashion and in two years "present" in another. We do not have blood tests x rays etc.
Moreover, we are obtaining "data" from other sources which are all subjective and vary. A teacher describes a child differently than mom or dad , a neighbor, the child’s best friend , the supermarket clerk. Then with the passage of time and sessions our clinical impression develop.
The system is silly and comes off the pure medical model. Blood test= have diagnois.Bingo. But in mental health , to get paid , you have to diagnose in the first session. Obviously if your clinical notions are markedly different after 8 sessions then you change it , but in his clinical record, what I think we are going to start hearing different ones. If the client comes in 2 times for a total of 90 minutes, and quits coming then the initial diagnosis remains in the history.
So when you get him, you have 3 different diagnosis to start with yourself.
For some reason mental health seems to have this notion that the diagnois has to right throughout time. It often is not. in mental health , just an example, what could like ADHD at age 8 is actually the begining of the manic side of bipolar which might emerge when the child is 16
Cancer gets worse, but rarely does cancer become aa broken bone! . IN medical, one can get different conclusions (and medical has x-rays, blood etcetc)
In medical folks get second opinions also!
I don’t think we ever will. I think what is going to start coming out is well get some differing diagnosis along his lifelong involvement with therapy. Your guys need to be "fair"(!) to us. A client in one year can "present" in one fashion and in two years "present" in another. We do not have blood tests x rays etc.
Moreover, we are obtaining "data" from other sources which are all subjective and vary. A teacher describes a child differently than mom or dad , a neighbor, the child’s best friend , the supermarket clerk. Then with the passage of time and sessions our clinical impression develop.
The system is silly and comes off the pure medical model. Blood test= have diagnois.Bingo. But in mental health , to get paid , you have to diagnose in the first session. Obviously if your clinical notions are markedly different after 8 sessions then you change it , but in his clinical record, what I think we are going to start hearing different ones. If the client comes in 2 times for a total of 90 minutes, and quits coming then the initial diagnosis remains in the history.
So when you get him, you have 3 different diagnosis to start with yourself.
For some reason mental health seems to have this notion that the diagnois has to right throughout time. It often is not. in mental health , just an example, what could like ADHD at age 8 is actually the begining of the manic side of bipolar which might emerge when the child is 16
Cancer gets worse, but rarely does cancer become aa broken bone! . IN medical, one can get different conclusions (and medical has x-rays, blood etcetc)
In medical folks get second opinions also!
Gardenlady
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Okay aside from her snide remarks about liberals, I actually found myself in agreement with much of Coulter's column (though of course being a liberal, I do think, unlike her, that a lack of access to guns would help these cases).
anyway - she calls auditory hallucination on the supposed conversation between ER and stepmom about younger brother losing his virginity early. I too rolled my eyes at that. Not sure it was a hallucination, or an outright lie, but I'm similarly certain the conversation was much different than how ER related it.
I was also struck, like Coulter, by his sense of rejection, despite the fact that he NEVER tries to initiate any kind of contact with women in order to actually BE rejected. He feels OWED sex and attention - and that he apparently should have to do nothing at all to show himself worth women giving him their time, attention and intimacy.
I'm not positively sure yet what his dx was - she seems to feel certain it was schizophrenia, I'm not sure we have proof of that yet. But yeah, interesting column, and funny to see myself scoffing at the same stuff Coulter did.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
gajonka
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A Taste of Honey - u da best!
Elliot Rodger: One trait of the self proclaimed man without a talent is his acknowledgement of musical lyrics ( I found another grammatical error- page 71 believe - this makes 7 - with 5 of them space bar trips or adjective absence/sentence break) A few run-on sentences, but truly - he knew that it was important since he bragged so much about being intelligent, and sophisticated. I have listed all seven errors, and the score I have given the 137 pager, here:
http://gajonkafilmuniverse.blogspot.com/2014/05/elliot-rodger-american-psycho-in-flesh.html
We see one of the musical videos playing "Promises, Promises," a great 80s tune - he coordinates "action" with the first set of lyrics, fifteen seconds in. This tune - to an even greater degrees than "Can't Hurry Love," and "Heaven is a Place on Earth," really demonstrates how much thought he put into many aspects of his life activity.
Elliot Rodger could have gained life lesson utility, he could have even PROSPERED had he listened to the lyrics of this song: INXS's NEED YOU TONIGHT
I have included the lyrics below - but the best way to experience this is through musical delivery, Here is the video:
http://youtu.be/Swdbv5I6qzc
This is a kid who probably spent more than half his life THINKING about life - in place of doing anything other than 21st century Dungeons and Dragons. He could have been better off- and we would not have these awful sacrifices...if he -- well, by taking these words to heart.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/inxs/needyoutonight.html
"Need You Tonight"
All you got is this moment
Twenty-first century's yesterday
You can care all you want
Everybody does yeah that's okay
So slide over here
And give me a moment
Your moves are so raw
I've got to let you know
I've got to let you know
You're one of my kind
I need you tonight
'Cause I'm not sleeping
There's something about you girl
That makes me sweat
How do you feel
I'm lonely
What do you think
Can't take it all
Whatcha gonna do
Gonna live my life
It may not come across so well without the music - which is also available in the link- or maybe just YT if have any interest, never have used that site to listen to music.
Luv ya,
G
CARIIS
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· [FONT="]The basic “rules” are the same in the field there might be subtle differences(like number of days) I just am doing this cause it came back first on Google! Ignore the state below and some terms are different (what invol committed is “called” but same premise everywhere ![/FONT]
·
· [FONT="]Can I check myself into a hospital?[/FONT]
·
· [FONT="]If you are 16 years or older, you may enter a hospital willingly for diagnosis, observation or treatment. You are then considered a voluntary patient. [/FONT]
·
· [FONT="]Voluntary patients may request treatment either formally or informally. An informal request means you have requested admission for hospital treatment without submitting a written request. A formal request, called a "voluntary paper", is a written request[/FONT]
·
[FONT="]-----physician or licensed clinical psychologist has concluded that you are mentally ill and dangerous to yourself or others, or gravely disabled and in need of immediate care and treatment in a hospital…………… Then whatever word is for involuntary commitment[/FONT]
[FONT="]ON this one there would be differences in number of days by state::[/FONT]
[FONT="]our may be confined for up to x days under an emergency certificate without an order from the probate court. You may also be kept another xdays on the basis of a new certificate issued within fx days of the original certificate, if the hospital applied to Probate Court for an involuntary commitment hearing. The hospital cannot keep you longer than a total of x days unless the court has committed you or you sign yourself in voluntarily.[/FONT]
[FONT="]When you are admitted and detained under the emergency certificate it is required that a psychiatrist evaluate you within forty-eight hours. If it is his/her opinion that you do not meet the standard for emergency treatment, then you must be discharged immediately[/FONT]
[FONT="]· [/FONT][FONT="] If you are a voluntary patient and have put in a 3-day paper, the hospital can stop you from leaving by applying for a commitment hearing where you may present your case and argue your right to leave the hospital. You will have legal counsel at this hearing. Remember to call your court appointed attorney before the commitment hearing.[/FONT]
[FONT="]if the hospital applies to the Probate Court for a hearing to have you committed, you may choose to do the following:[/FONT]
[FONT="]· [/FONT][FONT="]You can sign back in as a voluntary patient (revoke the 3-day paper) any time prior to the actual hearing. This action will halt civil commitment proceedings. [/FONT]
[FONT="]· [/FONT][FONT="]If you are an involuntary patient under a 15-day paper also called a P.E.C. (Physician’s Emergency Certificate), you may ask, in writing, for the Probate Court Judge to give you a probable cause hearing. They must give you this hearing within 72 hours (3 days). At the probable cause hearing, the hospital must show that you need to stay in the hospital for the length of the fifteen days. If the hospital cannot show this, the Judge can order the hospital to release you. Probable cause hearings are only available to patients who are committed under a P.E.C.[/FONT]
[FONT="]http://www.ct.gov/opapd/cwp/view.asp?a=1756&q=277272[/FONT]
You cannot be committed for refusal to take meds without a huge dance with the court--huge!-peroid!
In 17 years I have NEVER seen this happen, ever "heard" (!) of it being done!
[FONT="]And think about it -- forced meds - in order to force meds you must have access to the person! In just realistic terms in our society today there really are no places that will keep someone for 3-80 years !
[/FONT]
[FONT="]safeguards involving a person's right to refuse psychiatric medications[/FONT]
[FONT="]IN the law it says you can take it to court to get a judge to force someone to take their meds,
[/FONT]
[FONT="]http://psychrights.org/force_of_law.htm#Medication
And here we go............everytime............on CNN now they are going to blame it on hollywood, watching video playing games and this is the reason why nothing changes. ER did what he did becasue he was mentally ill!
[/FONT]
·
· [FONT="]Can I check myself into a hospital?[/FONT]
·
· [FONT="]If you are 16 years or older, you may enter a hospital willingly for diagnosis, observation or treatment. You are then considered a voluntary patient. [/FONT]
·
· [FONT="]Voluntary patients may request treatment either formally or informally. An informal request means you have requested admission for hospital treatment without submitting a written request. A formal request, called a "voluntary paper", is a written request[/FONT]
·
[FONT="]-----physician or licensed clinical psychologist has concluded that you are mentally ill and dangerous to yourself or others, or gravely disabled and in need of immediate care and treatment in a hospital…………… Then whatever word is for involuntary commitment[/FONT]
[FONT="]ON this one there would be differences in number of days by state::[/FONT]
[FONT="]our may be confined for up to x days under an emergency certificate without an order from the probate court. You may also be kept another xdays on the basis of a new certificate issued within fx days of the original certificate, if the hospital applied to Probate Court for an involuntary commitment hearing. The hospital cannot keep you longer than a total of x days unless the court has committed you or you sign yourself in voluntarily.[/FONT]
[FONT="]When you are admitted and detained under the emergency certificate it is required that a psychiatrist evaluate you within forty-eight hours. If it is his/her opinion that you do not meet the standard for emergency treatment, then you must be discharged immediately[/FONT]
[FONT="]· [/FONT][FONT="] If you are a voluntary patient and have put in a 3-day paper, the hospital can stop you from leaving by applying for a commitment hearing where you may present your case and argue your right to leave the hospital. You will have legal counsel at this hearing. Remember to call your court appointed attorney before the commitment hearing.[/FONT]
[FONT="]if the hospital applies to the Probate Court for a hearing to have you committed, you may choose to do the following:[/FONT]
[FONT="]· [/FONT][FONT="]You can sign back in as a voluntary patient (revoke the 3-day paper) any time prior to the actual hearing. This action will halt civil commitment proceedings. [/FONT]
[FONT="]· [/FONT][FONT="]If you are an involuntary patient under a 15-day paper also called a P.E.C. (Physician’s Emergency Certificate), you may ask, in writing, for the Probate Court Judge to give you a probable cause hearing. They must give you this hearing within 72 hours (3 days). At the probable cause hearing, the hospital must show that you need to stay in the hospital for the length of the fifteen days. If the hospital cannot show this, the Judge can order the hospital to release you. Probable cause hearings are only available to patients who are committed under a P.E.C.[/FONT]
[FONT="]http://www.ct.gov/opapd/cwp/view.asp?a=1756&q=277272[/FONT]
You cannot be committed for refusal to take meds without a huge dance with the court--huge!-peroid!
In 17 years I have NEVER seen this happen, ever "heard" (!) of it being done!
[FONT="]And think about it -- forced meds - in order to force meds you must have access to the person! In just realistic terms in our society today there really are no places that will keep someone for 3-80 years !
[/FONT]
[FONT="]safeguards involving a person's right to refuse psychiatric medications[/FONT]
[FONT="]IN the law it says you can take it to court to get a judge to force someone to take their meds,
[/FONT]
[FONT="]http://psychrights.org/force_of_law.htm#Medication
And here we go............everytime............on CNN now they are going to blame it on hollywood, watching video playing games and this is the reason why nothing changes. ER did what he did becasue he was mentally ill!
[/FONT]
Flutterby80
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Well I made it 19 minutes. I honestly have no idea who this person is, but all he did for the first 19 minutes was blame Elliot's parents. I'm not listening to any more of it. He is taking the journal as fact, for one thing. I have my doubts about that.
He better be a super-educated psychiatrist, because he sure acts like he knows it all.
I think you made it further than any of us, lol. I think it's weird that some people are taking the manifesto as the truth about ER's life, as if it's unthinkable to lie in a work intended to be published. It's done all the time. Not to mention that ER's perception of reality has not exactly proven to coincide with ..... well... sanity. I take"e his claims into consideration, but definitely do not accept them as factual or realistic.
gajonka
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CARIIS
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It keeps logging me out quickly - is anyone having that tongight or know if there is ssomething I can set on the site or what my computer might be doing .
My sense was it logged you if you were not active, (makes sense) I am trying to read all your thoughts, but shouldn't scrolling be an active user?
My sense was it logged you if you were not active, (makes sense) I am trying to read all your thoughts, but shouldn't scrolling be an active user?
mikeysmommom
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I remember many years ago reading about Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, Sexual sadism Psychopaths and if you Follow Michael Stone s Scale of Evil they both are a 22, ER is going to get the same label and is a 22 IMO.
Do not know if we will ever find out but I am sure the FBI profilers will be talking to all those named in that manifesto. IMO when he told his"best" friend about the holding down and raping women and other tortures he wanted as he railed against the "injustices" done to him he went too far .He mistakenly is his twisted mind assumed he found his partner in crime. Instead of realizing he horrified him to the very point of a very loyal friend telling him to stay away from him.After being so shocked at his friend reaction he realized he outed himself. That is when he started to need a cover in case his friend told on him.That is when he wrote his story probably when he showed mom his writing ,and she had encouraged it ,It was just his first page IMO. I have a strong feeling the friend did tell his mom because she would not let him stay at her home alone when she went to Hawaii, she put in a hotel but let him stay in the home once she came back. She wanted to make sure he did not have a place to hurt anyone just in case what she was told was true. All three parents most likely knew what he told the friend but 2 never thought it would go beyond a fantasy, I believe step mom was not in denial, that is why she banned him from her home and his father agreed.Most likely the same reaction that many parents of famous authors and horror movie writers felt. IMO They did not let ER know the friend told them. Also why they did not feel being in a room mate setting would be a bad idea, he could never grab a woman and bring her back to his place with room mates coming in and out. Parents could have gotten him a single room,they had the money but why chance it. He was manipulating them like always by having trouble with his first room mate and moved, He was alone in a room and IIRC that was when he drank the vodka and attempted to party with other students. Thank God he stood out as a creepy guy and wound up the one tossed over. I really think he was going to attempt getting his first "girl friend" that night. I feel sick writing this.
Do not know if we will ever find out but I am sure the FBI profilers will be talking to all those named in that manifesto. IMO when he told his"best" friend about the holding down and raping women and other tortures he wanted as he railed against the "injustices" done to him he went too far .He mistakenly is his twisted mind assumed he found his partner in crime. Instead of realizing he horrified him to the very point of a very loyal friend telling him to stay away from him.After being so shocked at his friend reaction he realized he outed himself. That is when he started to need a cover in case his friend told on him.That is when he wrote his story probably when he showed mom his writing ,and she had encouraged it ,It was just his first page IMO. I have a strong feeling the friend did tell his mom because she would not let him stay at her home alone when she went to Hawaii, she put in a hotel but let him stay in the home once she came back. She wanted to make sure he did not have a place to hurt anyone just in case what she was told was true. All three parents most likely knew what he told the friend but 2 never thought it would go beyond a fantasy, I believe step mom was not in denial, that is why she banned him from her home and his father agreed.Most likely the same reaction that many parents of famous authors and horror movie writers felt. IMO They did not let ER know the friend told them. Also why they did not feel being in a room mate setting would be a bad idea, he could never grab a woman and bring her back to his place with room mates coming in and out. Parents could have gotten him a single room,they had the money but why chance it. He was manipulating them like always by having trouble with his first room mate and moved, He was alone in a room and IIRC that was when he drank the vodka and attempted to party with other students. Thank God he stood out as a creepy guy and wound up the one tossed over. I really think he was going to attempt getting his first "girl friend" that night. I feel sick writing this.
IHAVENOCLUE
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When logging on there is a little square next to "Remember Me"...
if you click on the box... It should keep you logged on...
(if you are talking about WS)
HTH...:seeya:
mikeysmommom
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Have been thanking posts and it keeps taking them away lol.
I listened to the whole thing when it came out but I was cooking too so to me, he at least wasn't talking racism, misogny, women's rights movement, and whatever those other sites with depressing fellow posters filled with hate were. I thought he took it to the mental illness level pretty well that day.
Do I want to listen to him again, I don't think so. Same with a lot of radio hosts famous, self reported famous & the not eva' been famous shows. jmo
Do I want to listen to him again, I don't think so. Same with a lot of radio hosts famous, self reported famous & the not eva' been famous shows. jmo
mikeysmommom
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I finally fell asleep at 7 am after taking a sleeping pill at 10 pm. My hubby hates when I get like this but until I can make sense out of a situation, I can not shut off thinking about it. Does anyone have a list of the songs ER played in his videos? TIA
IHAVENOCLUE
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Maybe refresh your page?
there is quite a bit of activity on this thread... And refreshing may help to keep your "Thanks" thanked...
HTH...:seeya:
HMSHood
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I suspect that too. The way she slashed those three people would of been done to maximize suffering and pain I could imagine. I could see him hurting and killing his parents and sister, as he had wrote about killing his stepmother and half brother.
He really is envious as it is a theme in his manifesto and video.
CARIIS
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[FONT="] The media is making it like this is a concrete entity, when the reality is it is a very complicated deal.[/FONT]
What we are talking about here is called Duty to Warn. It is a very complicated entity. The core deal in therapy is confidentiality and privileged communication. It is the soul of therapy- the client can show oneself warts and all and know that no one else will know what is discussed. This is vital.
We in the field respect it, but it can be a tricky line. Any time most of us had to call , we would usually bring a colleague in so together we can access lethality.
In some states we are mandated reporters Chiropractors, dentists, emergency medical personnel, licensed practical nurses, medical examiners, mental health professionals, osteopaths, pharmacists, physicians, physicians assistants, psychologists, registered nurses, surgeons, and any other health care provide .more
· I think where folks anger is coming from what we now know. If someone tells me they want to kill themselves you evaluate father. (when where how) . If they can answer that type of thing: I have 100 Xanax at home, and tonight before my husband comes I am going to get in the bathroom and take them all. CALL!
Lets say the same person
Do you feel like hurting yourself. No. Obviously professionally there is a reason why one would ask. Further assessment you feel like they are not being truthful. Go a few minutes and you are looking for degree of helplessness hopelessness.
No I will not kill myself but I really dont have anything to live for is a markedly different repose to do you feel like hurting yourself? and the reply is I have thought about sometimes but think of what it would do to my children and husband. That is data. There is something in the clients that they value, want need etc.
Ok feeling better about not calling. The danger, in order to call MUST be imminent.
. Next phase explain that you have some concerns about their safety and that is only thing I am concerned about. Are you willing to contract with me that should you start thinking about jutting yourself that will you call me, the hospital or whatever the deal here is you want them to commit to reach out if needed. (you write down several phone numbers (crisis center, LE the community center the hospital etc. etc.
Their response to contracting for safety is also data. If the client quickly easily agrees to it, asks questions (will x hospital take Humana) there is intent to follow through. And remember, if the Clint has been working with you there is great trust, you know the client etc. In the therapeutic relationship and the invested client in most instances will not lie (varies!). However if there is resistance, indifference paying no attention tone of voice (I.e. yen Ill call someone) that too is data.
You can get more data when done, ask back to review the plan, if they do it with no real interest Ok fine Ill call the cops if I feel like hurting myself ok. That is data a different than If I feel like hurting myself first I will call my husband, and then if I feel I want to try soon I will call police and if I feel like I can drive myself to X hospital on Smith street and admit myself . That too is data.
Is there a history of attention getting suicidal history less lethality
Is the spouse over his/ her mental BS or committed , understands it etc. that also influences decisions.
If had a spouse (confidentiality) I would get the release to talk to the spouse about my concerns. Now that can also be data if the person just denied suicidal thoughts but does not want to sign the release for me to contact spouse there is a reason for that (getting closer to making the call to LE!) IF they willingly without hesitation sign the release that too is data (they want safety they will reach out to get help)
It is a judgment call, it is based on many variables, it is fluid the first week of the month you can have abovementioned dialog and three weeks later that entire session could be totally different. It is not a concrete thing.
Judgment in any context can be wrong. It is being human .And honestly, its a more difficult call than looking at an X-Ray , seeing a torn ligament and know you need to do surgery!
·
·
What we are talking about here is called Duty to Warn. It is a very complicated entity. The core deal in therapy is confidentiality and privileged communication. It is the soul of therapy- the client can show oneself warts and all and know that no one else will know what is discussed. This is vital.
We in the field respect it, but it can be a tricky line. Any time most of us had to call , we would usually bring a colleague in so together we can access lethality.
In some states we are mandated reporters Chiropractors, dentists, emergency medical personnel, licensed practical nurses, medical examiners, mental health professionals, osteopaths, pharmacists, physicians, physicians assistants, psychologists, registered nurses, surgeons, and any other health care provide .more
· I think where folks anger is coming from what we now know. If someone tells me they want to kill themselves you evaluate father. (when where how) . If they can answer that type of thing: I have 100 Xanax at home, and tonight before my husband comes I am going to get in the bathroom and take them all. CALL!
Lets say the same person
Do you feel like hurting yourself. No. Obviously professionally there is a reason why one would ask. Further assessment you feel like they are not being truthful. Go a few minutes and you are looking for degree of helplessness hopelessness.
No I will not kill myself but I really dont have anything to live for is a markedly different repose to do you feel like hurting yourself? and the reply is I have thought about sometimes but think of what it would do to my children and husband. That is data. There is something in the clients that they value, want need etc.
Ok feeling better about not calling. The danger, in order to call MUST be imminent.
. Next phase explain that you have some concerns about their safety and that is only thing I am concerned about. Are you willing to contract with me that should you start thinking about jutting yourself that will you call me, the hospital or whatever the deal here is you want them to commit to reach out if needed. (you write down several phone numbers (crisis center, LE the community center the hospital etc. etc.
Their response to contracting for safety is also data. If the client quickly easily agrees to it, asks questions (will x hospital take Humana) there is intent to follow through. And remember, if the Clint has been working with you there is great trust, you know the client etc. In the therapeutic relationship and the invested client in most instances will not lie (varies!). However if there is resistance, indifference paying no attention tone of voice (I.e. yen Ill call someone) that too is data.
You can get more data when done, ask back to review the plan, if they do it with no real interest Ok fine Ill call the cops if I feel like hurting myself ok. That is data a different than If I feel like hurting myself first I will call my husband, and then if I feel I want to try soon I will call police and if I feel like I can drive myself to X hospital on Smith street and admit myself . That too is data.
Is there a history of attention getting suicidal history less lethality
Is the spouse over his/ her mental BS or committed , understands it etc. that also influences decisions.
If had a spouse (confidentiality) I would get the release to talk to the spouse about my concerns. Now that can also be data if the person just denied suicidal thoughts but does not want to sign the release for me to contact spouse there is a reason for that (getting closer to making the call to LE!) IF they willingly without hesitation sign the release that too is data (they want safety they will reach out to get help)
It is a judgment call, it is based on many variables, it is fluid the first week of the month you can have abovementioned dialog and three weeks later that entire session could be totally different. It is not a concrete thing.
Judgment in any context can be wrong. It is being human .And honestly, its a more difficult call than looking at an X-Ray , seeing a torn ligament and know you need to do surgery!
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CARIIS
Former Member
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I totally agree with you - the roomates was moms like compromise SHe did not want him to go , hes an adult, so it was like ok let me try to get him somewhere there are roomates (it was not a money deal)
It was the best she could do.
Again, I invite anyone to play one of his videos with no sound. Does he look threatening? He is actually kind of frail looking!
And there is some sort of like irony here - by that I mean , if he weighed 425 pounds him ruminating, aloud, about not having a girl might make sense.
Boy am I wrong here huh ---ugh
It was the best she could do.
Again, I invite anyone to play one of his videos with no sound. Does he look threatening? He is actually kind of frail looking!
And there is some sort of like irony here - by that I mean , if he weighed 425 pounds him ruminating, aloud, about not having a girl might make sense.
Boy am I wrong here huh ---ugh
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