Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #3

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

flowershop said:
Another WSer posted a few days ago that when they make a trip into the remote desert they bring a large container of water. I am picturing something that holds at minimum 5 gallons like those large Igloo containers with a spigot that construction workers and athletes frequently use. Perhaps this is even too small.
Click to expand...
www.us-parks.com

Grand Canyon National Park Smart Hiking

www.us-parks.com www.us-parks.com
"HEAT EXHAUSTION Is the result of dehydration due to intense sweating. Hikers can lose one or two quarts (liters) of water per hour."
 
flowershop said:
Another WSer posted a few days ago that when they make a trip into the remote desert they bring a large container of water. I am picturing something that holds at minimum 5 gallons like those large Igloo containers with a spigot that construction workers and athletes frequently use. Perhaps this is even too small.
Click to expand...

We used o take 5 gallons. Got ourselves into...situations. Now we take 20 gallons minimum (and not just for the desert, but for high dry areas like the Eastern Sierra). We also take a couple of 5 gallon containers, because I can't lift the larger one.

My dad (b. 1917) carried soft-sided water containers on the front of the car when we went "back home" from California to Nebraska or E. Color. He took 20 gallons - and on more than one occasion, stopped to help people without water.

This is why some of us are questioning JFR's "desert skills." He was fairly new to the desert, IMO. I had only two relatives who went out their regularly (as a couple, btw). They went to Death Valley frequently - but NOT in July or August.

We keep a couple of 5 gallon Igloo-type containers right now (and four 20-gallon containers in the garage - because even in our relatively coastal area, with more water than in Morongo/Thermal area, we worry about events that cause water shortage - we're all dependent on electricity out here in California - the Desert more than any place else).

It's daily news about smaller towns coming up short...of water. Did JRF not know this?

IMO. I don't know. It's weird that his new-to-him Tacoma (purchased far, by my standards, from Morongo) was not loaded up with FORTY gallons of water. Why not? Why buy a 4WD (but long and not actually a good choice for 4-wheeling) and NOT carry water in the desert? Did he believe he was super lucky or invincible?

No way of knowing, but...it was the hottest time of the year. I sense bravado on his part.

IMO.
 
acutename said:
www.us-parks.com

Grand Canyon National Park Smart Hiking

www.us-parks.com www.us-parks.com
"HEAT EXHAUSTION Is the result of dehydration due to intense sweating. Hikers can lose one or two quarts (liters) of water per hour."
Click to expand...

And hyperthermia is high body temperature WITH OR WITHOUT dehydration.

Want to die in the desert? Don't carry enough water.

Think that you can survive just because you have water? WRONG. People have dropped dead in Death Valley while hydrated - due to HEAT.

Hyperthermia is like having a fever and from personal experience, I can say that many overheated people still have some fluid in their bodies. My body temperature got up to slightly more than 102 (bad) in a desert trip. That's how I got so interested in the issue. BTW, unlike a regular fever, I had no clue. I was irritable and then I was euphoric. If there hadn't been a need to stop for gas, not sure what would have happened. All these collisions we see on the desert (and people dropping off their motorcycles on occasion!) are caused by heat, regardless of hydrationl

HEAT EXHAUSTION can also be caused by HEAT ALONE, not just dehydration. And severe heat exhaustion is caused by heat even with hydration. Elecrolytes are the other variable and I've posted this so many times I don't want to bore anyone.

IMO. Stay safe in dry heat by avoiding temps above 110 AND by drinking water/ but also...making sure of electrolytes. And every individual has different needs that change as we age.
 
10ofRods said:
We used o take 5 gallons. Got ourselves into...situations. Now we take 20 gallons minimum (and not just for the desert, but for high dry areas like the Eastern Sierra). We also take a couple of 5 gallon containers, because I can't lift the larger one.

My dad (b. 1917) carried soft-sided water containers on the front of the car when we went "back home" from California to Nebraska or E. Color. He took 20 gallons - and on more than one occasion, stopped to help people without water.

This is why some of us are questioning JFR's "desert skills." He was fairly new to the desert, IMO. I had only two relatives who went out their regularly (as a couple, btw). They went to Death Valley frequently - but NOT in July or August.

We keep a couple of 5 gallon Igloo-type containers right now (and four 20-gallon containers in the garage - because even in our relatively coastal area, with more water than in Morongo/Thermal area, we worry about events that cause water shortage - we're all dependent on electricity out here in California - the Desert more than any place else).

It's daily news about smaller towns coming up short...of water. Did JRF not know this?

IMO. I don't know. It's weird that his new-to-him Tacoma (purchased far, by my standards, from Morongo) was not loaded up with FORTY gallons of water. Why not? Why buy a 4WD (but long and not actually a good choice for 4-wheeling) and NOT carry water in the desert? Did he believe he was super lucky or invincible?

No way of knowing, but...it was the hottest time of the year. I sense bravado on his part.

IMO.
Click to expand...

I think there has been a degree of assumption (not by you, but by some I've seen commenting in various places) that JRF would have known better because he had been a SEAL. Even DH seemed to be confident that JRF would know what he was doing.

But my understanding is that different SEALs have different specialties. Some might be experts in the desert, others in water, and some in helicopters and parachutes. JRF's specialty might have had nothing to do with surviving in the scorching heat.

Apart from that, there's the simple fact that JRF wasnt a 30-year-old man anymore. Although he looked far healthier than in his mugshot, he was still a 52-year-old recovering alcoholic who may have had numerous health issues. What he was once capable of, and what he may have still believed he was capable of, probably wasn't what he was actually still capable of.
 
10ofRods said:
And hyperthermia is high body temperature WITH OR WITHOUT dehydration.

Want to die in the desert? Don't carry enough water.

Think that you can survive just because you have water? WRONG. People have dropped dead in Death Valley while hydrated - due to HEAT.

Hyperthermia is like having a fever and from personal experience, I can say that many overheated people still have some fluid in their bodies. My body temperature got up to slightly more than 102 (bad) in a desert trip. That's how I got so interested in the issue. BTW, unlike a regular fever, I had no clue. I was irritable and then I was euphoric. If there hadn't been a need to stop for gas, not sure what would have happened. All these collisions we see on the desert (and people dropping off their motorcycles on occasion!) are caused by heat, regardless of hydrationl

HEAT EXHAUSTION can also be caused by HEAT ALONE, not just dehydration. And severe heat exhaustion is caused by heat even with hydration. Elecrolytes are the other variable and I've posted this so many times I don't want to bore anyone.

IMO. Stay safe in dry heat by avoiding temps above 110 AND by drinking water/ but also...making sure of electrolytes. And every individual has different needs that change as we age.
Click to expand...

HEAT EXHAUSTION is due to hyperthermia and lead to HEAT STROKE, which can be fatal. I have personal experience, too, and my signal symptom is a bad headache, as I am not at all prone to headaches. Pale skin, fair hair with ancestors from the cold north, I am not genetically adapted to live in hot or especially hot and humid environments. I have to retreat to the shade and get wet cloths on me to bring my temp down.
 
Im so sad to see that a body has been found and may be Fang. It‘s not the outcome we hoped for, however, maybe now we can get answers and the family can have closure and begin to grieve.
I didn’t realize the truck was still out there. A helicopter needed to remove the truck? Wow.
 
AmandaSkis said:
How did they come upon these remains? Was it just a random search? Did they have a reason to be looking where they did?
Click to expand...
The details will come out, but I believe there was a search of the area, and not just random stuff.

The comment about needing a helicopter to remove the vehicle is unexpected. I hope we will get a professional interpretation of what happened to it.
 
AmandaSkis said:
How did they come upon these remains? Was it just a random search? Did they have a reason to be looking where they did?
Click to expand...
It was likely the highly experienced, volunteer wilderness search and rescue crew based in San Diego County.

They have likely been searching for a while (in between emergencies, etc) systematically covering ground according to their best understanding of the terrain and what might have happened.

JMO
 
Interested_But_Confused said:
I think there has been a degree of assumption (not by you, but by some I've seen commenting in various places) that JRF would have known better because he had been a SEAL. Even DH seemed to be confident that JRF would know what he was doing.

But my understanding is that different SEALs have different specialties. Some might be experts in the desert, others in water, and some in helicopters and parachutes. JRF's specialty might have had nothing to do with surviving in the scorching heat.

Apart from that, there's the simple fact that JRF wasnt a 30-year-old man anymore. Although he looked far healthier than in his mugshot, he was still a 52-year-old recovering alcoholic who may have had numerous health issues. What he was once capable of, and what he may have still believed he was capable of, probably wasn't what he was actually still capable of.
Click to expand...
I don't know about his capabilities, but looking at his resume he was previously an instructor in Jungle Survival for Navy Special Warfare (NSW) command. And he spent significant time in Iraq where he conducted "multiple successful high risk missions", so presumably he has familiarity with harsh desert environments.

Obviously, we don't know what actually happened. Maybe there was nothing he could do to save himself or FJ, and I don't want to cast aspersions when so much is unknown. But his background and experience just adds to the overall mystery of this case.
 
ch_13 said:
I don't know about his capabilities, but looking at his resume he was previously an instructor in Jungle Survival for Navy Special Warfare (NSW) command. And he spent significant time in Iraq where he conducted "multiple successful high risk missions", so presumably he has familiarity with harsh desert environments.

Obviously, we don't know what actually happened. Maybe there was nothing he could do to save himself or FJ, and I don't want to cast aspersions when so much is unknown. But his background and experience just adds to the overall mystery of this case.
Click to expand...

In that case JRF should have had some idea how to handle a harsh environment.

Perhaps they never intended to get out of the air-conditioned car at all, and it became disabled somehow leaving them no choice but to get out. JRF may have believed his truck was more capable of handling the terrain than it actually was.

Or maybe it was as simple as an unexpected medical episode. If JRF had a heart attack, for example, JF would have been unlikely to be able to move him. And I have no idea if she would have been able to drive the truck to get herself to safety.
 
sasha17 said:
I am not a local so I am not familiar with the place names. For anyone who is familiar: were the most recently discovered remains in the same area where John's remains and vehicle were found?
Click to expand...

We do not have an official LE report, but I think it is reasonable to assume the search was involving the area of Harper Canyon near where JRF's remains and a backpack were found.
 
if they broke down they wouldn’t be able to walk far. The sands are unbelievably hot. I think they’d suffer from heat stroke/exhaustion and succumb to the elements. This isn’t an area you want to have car troubles. Especially in the summer months. I’ve been out there, it’s miserable in summer.

This video shows dirt bikers riding in the area. It’s a difficult area to navigate.



 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Members online

... and 149 more.
Total: 693 (members: 150, guests: 543)

Online statistics

Members online
150
Guests online
543
Total visitors
693
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
608,321
Messages
18,237,675
Members
234,341
Latest member
KingAlyssa
Back
Top