Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #2

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imstilla.grandma

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Fang Jin, 47-year-old, missing since around July 22, 2023.
Missing woman Fang Jin

<more at link>

If you have information contact detective Tyler Bengard ((760) 366-4175 or (909) 387-8313) and reference report number 092301014.

Thread #1
 
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So, at the very least it seems Fang was separated from her phone and bank card on July 21, 2023.

If there was a fatal accident, her bank card and cell phone could still be with her, as could JRF, his cell phone and his bank card(s). i do not draw the same conclusion that she was separated from her card and phone because her bank card has not been used. I do think it should provide enough notion for the LE to remove “voluntary” from their missing statuses.

JMVHO
I think @Red Clover was being gentle and mindful that we have a VI who knows Fang in real life, who I’m sure holds desperately onto the hope his dear friend will be found safe.
As do we all, too, of course!
MOO
 
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I think @Red Clover was being gentle and mindful that we have a VI who knows Fang in real life, who I’m sure holds desperately onto the hope his dear friend will be found safe.
As do we all, too, of course!
MOO
I apologize if my comment came across as insensitive and I misinterpreted @Red Clover ’s intent. I really hope Fang is found alive as well - as is evidenced by how many are concerned, she is very much loved and deeply missed. I do hope that that this new fact prompts LE to reclassify her status and actually look for her.
 
I think @Red Clover was being gentle and mindful that we have a VI who knows Fang in real life, who I’m sure holds desperately onto the hope his dear friend will be found safe.
As do we all, too, of course!
MOO
Hope can be always there ... but we also realize the fact that our friend could be deceased for more than 2 months now.... The most important now for the 2 daughters of Fang is to know what happened with their mom... and to be able to continue their lives with or without her ...
 
If there was a fatal accident, her bank card and cell phone could still be with her, as could JRF, his cell phone and his bank card(s). i do not draw the same conclusion that she was separated from her card and phone because her bank card has not been used. I do think it should provide enough notion for the LE to remove “voluntary” from their missing statuses.

JMVHO

But one would expect "last use" data to be the same for both of them (near Julian is where JRF's phone last pinged, as far as we know, on the 24th). Fang's phone did not ping near Julian, she used it to send a picture to her daughters, I believe, on the 21st and then it goes "dead."

If Jin Fang continued to travel with JRF (phone now with a dead battery or whatever), then it would be his phone ping that indicates their joint last known location.

That would mean that Jin Fang and JRF had differing dates for their own device's last use and therefore offers no real indication or proof that they were still traveling together. Maybe, maybe not.

I wouldn't say that she was "separated" from her card, either. But she stopped using both her credit card and her phone at approximately the same time. JRF continues to use his phone for another 3 days.

IMO, that's where we're at - open to corrections here.
 
I apologize if my comment came across as insensitive and I misinterpreted @Red Clover ’s intent. I really hope Fang is found alive as well - as is evidenced by how many are concerned, she is very much loved and deeply missed. I do hope that that this new fact prompts LE to reclassify her status and actually look for her.

LE should at least take a look at @mark1969 's data about the credit card (which is new). That would come under "digital searching," but in this case, it would be @mark1969 who did the search and gave it to LE.

If LE does decide to move this case to "unknown" missing (or whatever the category is), I'm trying to think what kinds of ordinary LE search procedures could then follow. If she only had one credit card, well, that part is now known. I do not think SBCSO will try to get phone records from a Chinese phone company (and that doesn't seem highly relevant at this pint - unless the Chinese phone company is the sort that keeps text messages in storage, and even then, that probably isn't going to reveal much).

LE cannot search "California in general." There needs to be a last known point from which to search. It's very hard indeed to even guess at that (probably not the highway on the 21st; probably was in Thermal, camping - but we don't know that for sure and we don't even know if LE got camera footage from a campground or whether some other means was used to come up with "they camped at a hot springs near Thermal" (there are more than a dozen such campgrounds - LE needs it to be narrowed down. Since no one has access to JRF or his phone records, it gets really difficult.

Then there's the Julian ping (but was Fang still with JRF?)

IOW, LE needs a starting point. And choosing the wrong one could result in expenditure of resources and not finding Jin Fang. Keep in mind that SARS (since there's a lot of wilderness in all three possible "last points" where Fang was noted) are typically all volunteers. The LEA pays their expenses (but typically expects them to carpool and IME, they often sleep in tents and have very basic accommodations), but the SARS members have to take off work. Sometimes, they can only search on weekends. But no one is willing to risk the lives of SARS personnel in a vast search (they typically search 1-5 square miles at a time, except in mountain rescue - which this could very well be). A SARS team with climbing equipment can be assembled quickly, because so many of the volunteers are willing to go out, no matter what, but that only occurs when a person is known to have plunged off a cliff or into a ravine - it cannot be used to search every gully, ravine and cliff in Southern California.

SO, either we go with the "Fang was at Thermal" area and @mark1969 tries to press that point OR he goes with Julian and tries to press on that. Over time, searching both areas might become possible - but, this is no longer an emergency if we're asking living humans to risk their lives going down into (or even along) ravines). We had another sandstone crumble death here in SoCal just last week. It is not an emergency rescue at this time.

If the truck can be spotted, then LE will certainly organize whatever it takes to get to it.

I wish I lived closer to the Inland Empire (particularly the Thermal/Julian area) and was in a position to drive various back roads over time. It's not an area where I would feel comfortable going alone, either (vehicle thefts continue to rise out there at a rate higher than I'm comfortable with).

There are few reasons for a typical Southern Californian to go out that way, except for work. My friends from the Inland Empire now live elsewhere (San Diego and Temecula, in cities). San Diego is about 150 miles from Thermal. And there are three different ways to get there, two of them involving roads in that wind through mountains. Julian is just off ONE of those routes.

So here's my best guess about which roads need to be watched/peppered with missing posters:

The 86 south from Thermal (Thermal population is 1,371) to Salton Sea City
Borrego-Salton Sea Way (aka Placitas Road) westward toward Julian (largely uninhabited, curvy, mountainous)
The 79 south to Julian (Julian population 1318, most not commuting anywhere)
The 79 south beyond Julian (as the most logical thing someone would do next).

If we assume that the two travelers are still together, that maybe Jin Fang forgot her phone charger and JRF uses, say, an Apple lightening connector, so of no aid to her phone, this is the most likely route. My big assumption is that they were generally heading southward - to visit San DIego? The route to San DIego from Julian is definitely back roads - scenic, if you like dry mountainous scenery - the Cleveland National Forest has its sights and would be cooler than Morongo Valley or Palm Springs or Joshua Tree).

I wish we knew exactly how the ping data from Julian was collected. It does seem the two were visiting public lands (Joshua Tree, a plan t visit Mojave NM, I think). They could have gone from Julian back north on the 79, turned west on Placitas and then planned to loop back up the 15 to JFR's place. This seems to me to be a reasonable weekend long trip - but they are lost somewhere along the time. The mountains around Julian (both directions) would seem to be the place to look for that truck.

IMO.
 
New fact we have : until now no banccard transactions by Fangs cards since 21st of july ... can be interpreted as good fact as well as less good fact....
I guess her transactions gave no clue for where they might have been heading next?

I hope your PI can revisit any places she used her card to ask questions.

The “last video” was determined to have been sent late evening on July 21, so were all the transactions before that?
 
How would that work? I assume that the data would come from the roaming that would connect an international phone to local cell towers and that the cell towers are those of U.S. carriers.
The Chinese have the know how. There are untold depths to what information they have, but may not admit to.

Isn't there intelligence that Huawei phones, and Chinese apps like Tik-Tok and Temu are essentially harvesting data from their users?

And don't forget China flew a spy balloon across North America from 28th January 2023 to the 4th February 2023 before the US defense and security agencies even noticed.

The question though, is whether China will show that much interest in one of their missing citizens. Fang is one of over a billion Chinese living in China.

 
I guess her transactions gave no clue for where they might have been heading next?

I hope your PI can revisit any places she used her card to ask questions.

The “last video” was determined to have been sent late evening on July 21, so were all the transactions before that?
The expenses can not be alot because she was only in US for 7 days until she dissapeared...and also took cash with her.
 
The Chinese have the know how. There are untold depths to what information they have, but may not admit to.

Isn't there intelligence that Huawei phones, and Chinese apps like Tik-Tok and Temu are essentially harvesting data from their users?

And don't forget China flew a spy balloon across North America from 28th January 2023 to the 4th February 2023 before the US defense and security agencies even noticed.

The question though, is whether China will show that much interest in one of their missing citizens. Fang is one of over a billion Chinese living in China.

Not losing face....trying to stay diplomatic ...and not cause any worry that might escalate .... yes that represents China..... Our worry in that case is that if something might have happened in Marine base in 29 palms where Fang could have been illegal due to circumstances ... that we as simple citizens will not know because than it could escalate to a new conflict between China and USA....
 
The expenses can not be alot because she was only in US for 7 days until she dissapeared...and also took cash with her.
I‘m sorry, I may be misunderstanding.
Fang’s transactions didn’t show where she used her credit card?
For instance, when I travel and use my credit card, my statement shows the date, place and amount charged—like for a restaurant, gift shop, gas station, etc.
 
Not losing face....trying to stay diplomatic ...and not cause any worry that might escalate .... yes that represents China..... Our worry in that case is that if something might have happened in Marine base in 29 palms where Fang could have been illegal due to circumstances ... that we as simple citizens will not know because than it could escalate to a new conflict between China and USA....

I think the possibility of that is remote, indeed. There are military bases everywhere. JRF might have had identification that allowed him on base near 29 Palms, but that base is simply housing and auxiliary services, it's basically right in a town, has people coming and going all the time, and I don't see why the people at the gate of the Marine Base would see Jin Fang as anyone other than a guest of a military retiree with proper ID. Even if they did, they are not going to make a big case out of it. Most of the employees there are civilians, it is a purely logistical base. No secrets to discover, IMO.

There's no way that those Marines in 29 Palms would take captive a foreign national (and I'm sure they've had many chances). There's no reason to.

Unless, of course, there's something to be known about what Jin Fang was doing in the United States. I personally doubt that JFR ever took her there - although if you know that he did, let's add that to our timeline. I'm not even sure that they have a well-stocked commissary - people complain that it is expensive, looks to me the main functions are HR/personnel matters and providing medical care to Marines and Navy personnel in the area. It isn't even a very big hospital.

There are far more secretive, important places in California, but I've never heard of people going missing while trying to visit them (and people do visit, from all over the world - some of the bases have monuments and museums and all a person has to do is check in at a gate and leave when the base closes at night).

At any rate, would this visit to 29 Palms have been after they returned from Thermal? I thought there was no evidence that they had turned north again. Why would JRF also be missing? Unless the two of them really did something illegal on a military base, I just cannot picture that happening. At all.

IMO.
 
If I remember correctly, in that last video, a male voice is heard saying “hold on” or something like that. I have had a feeling that possibly they were being chased, or similar” at that time. JRF had a very nice looking truck…eye candy for a car jacking? My concern for some time has been that they were targeted and truck was jacked. If so, JRFs phone would come in handy…not sure what kind it was. But doubtful hers would have been of interest. Both the truck and JRF’s phone could have gone on without either of them, sadly. I pray that is not what happened and they are safe somewhere, although the longer the time frame, the less likely that is. MOO.
 
If we assume that the two travelers are still together, that maybe Jin Fang forgot her phone charger and JRF uses, say, an Apple lightening connector, so of no aid to her phone, this is the most likely route.

For the last ping issue, I was thinking along the same lines. Most vehicles these days have multiple USB ports but I found this thread for older model Tacomas complaining that the USB connections don't draw enough power to properly charge electronics. Maybe he had to use an adaptor for the cigarette lighter to charge his phone and they left hers turned off to save power.
 
For the last ping issue, I was thinking along the same lines. Most vehicles these days have multiple USB ports but I found this thread for older model Tacomas complaining that the USB connections don't draw enough power to properly charge electronics. Maybe he had to use an adaptor for the cigarette lighter to charge his phone and they left hers turned off to save power.
It appears she is the only one we know of that used her phone alot on the trip.
I would think hers was on the charger most, his was saving power.
 
It appears she is the only one we know of that used her phone alot on the trip.
I would think hers was on the charger most, his was saving power.
Except if they really did meet with an accident it doesn't explain why JRF's phone pinged three days after FJ's if his phone was turned off.

She could have been using the phone for pics and sending messages to families and friends but leaving it turned off when not in use.

His phone, on the other hand, might have been needed for navigation, etc. as he was driving.
 
If I remember correctly, in that last video, a male voice is heard saying “hold on” or something like that. I have had a feeling that possibly they were being chased, or similar” at that time. JRF had a very nice looking truck…eye candy for a car jacking? My concern for some time has been that they were targeted and truck was jacked. If so, JRFs phone would come in handy…not sure what kind it was. But doubtful hers would have been of interest. Both the truck and JRF’s phone could have gone on without either of them, sadly. I pray that is not what happened and they are safe somewhere, although the longer the time frame, the less likely that is. MOO.
I didn’t see the video, but if a male voice can be heard saying “hold on”, maybe they took a back road that had some rough terrain/dangerous road? I’m a little confused. At the time of this video, where were they? Was this in Thermal?
 
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