Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #2

[crhedBngr]

If the San Diego County Sheriff's Department say they have not confirmed the identity of the remains found in the desert state park...
then the previously released piece of info. that investigators notified family members in early October that the remains were those of JRF and that an identification card was located on the body was false ?

Possibly waiting for the Coroner's assessment?

JMVHO.

 

[10ofRods]

RSBM

Yes, many stills were shared on the 21st. Beautiful landscape photos. Professional looking IMO. Different from her other landscape pics.

Then, that was the day they did the famous mining Road that loops around through NE Joshua Tree and then back through 29 Palms (the only way back to Morongo).

@tarabull has been kind enough to send me picture files, but I'm still dealing with Zip extraction and my own software (I don't usually download anything from the Internets, ha).

I'd love it if someone could post some of her stills from the 21st. Something happened right after that. I fear it was something truly unexpected and sinister. IMO.

 

[Cedars]

If the San Diego County Sheriff's Department say they have not confirmed the identity of the remains found in the desert state park...
then the previously released piece of info. that investigators notified family members in early October that the remains were those of JRF and that an identification card was located on the body was false ?

I think what is meant is that the Sheriff's office is not speaking to the media, to either confirm or deny. All the records are sealed to prevent media access.

That is not the same as the Sheriff's office not knowing whose are the remains.

It's not that they can't figure it out, it's that they won't tell media.

I think the statements to the family were private, and not intended as a general public announcement, but someone (a PI?) leaked it to them.

JMO

 

[slowpoke]

If the San Diego County Sheriff's Department say they have not confirmed the identity of the remains found in the desert state park...
then the previously released piece of info. that investigators notified family members in early October that the remains were those of JRF and that an identification card was located on the body was false ?

I wouldn’t be surprised if it is erroneous or inaccurate. We’ve had so many errors with translation of time, words…

Maybe JFR’s family was contacted because the body is suspected of being JFR (the ID on him and the truck somewhat nearby, but since they are unable to identify him through fingerprints or teeth, they needed dna from a family member in order to attempt a positive identification. I don’t know how long testing can take, but maybe that’s where it stands.

So, maybe, maybe not— true. It could go either way In this case they way it’s been going thus far!
MOO

 

[hazel324]

My firm belief is that the whole case - right from the very beginning, has purposefully been kept as secretive as possible. Starting with finding most of Fang's belonging on 8/1 and NEVER telling her family that. It's unbelievable to me...they let people speculate that she'd 'run away'

I believe it's because of the Navy SEAL/visiting Chinese citizen component. Of course I understand that LE need to keep certain things to themselves but this has taken that to a whole new level I have never before witnessed.

In any other missing person investigation LE keeps next of kin relatively informed but here - nothing! One example is when someone goes missing and LE finds their vehicle with belongings inside and notify next of kin.

<modsnip - comments on social media are not fact, and are not allowed here>

 

[LucyOso]

I don't think anyone has seen or claimed to have seen photos from the 22nd (except the surveillance video of JRF's truck in Thermal).

Mark has said that the tone of that last message was somehow different, but it was written in Chinese. No one has been able to show that JRF can type in Chinese. It was sent through an app to which Fang had an account, to a group of people who were her family and friends (and not necessarily everyone she knew in that app - it was a message, not a public posting, IOW). It was sent from her phone.

Someone would have had to impersonate Jin Fang if she didn't write that message herself. If someone was impersonating her in Chinese, are we to look critically at all pictures she sent to her family, where she doesn't actually appear? DH says he saw her on the 17th.

LE is vague about when they saw her. I wish we knew.

BBM. Is it possible JRF or someone else used google translate for a message? Also "preparing to go camping"...perhaps to buy some time.

 

[LucyOso]

The missing persons report is probably the origin of the idea she was camping:
"The man picked Jin up in Palms Springs and they went camping together in the Joshua Tree National Park."

Fang Jin - Missing Persons Center

Share this

missingpersonscenter.org

I am now vaguely recalling a comment that family didn't want to admit she was in a romantic relationship, so didn't publicize the info that she'd been living in his home.

JMO

I think there are a couple of reasons family is uncomfortable with the idea of a romantic relationship. Cultural beliefs are a huge one. Another reason they have stayed away from this topic is because many people from many countries get turned away at immigration for saying they are coming to visit a romantic partner. There is a huge risk of overstaying, even if people have a return ticket. If FJ didn't declare she was seeing a potential romantic partner when entering the country, this could create major issues for future travel. The missing person report might not have been taken as seriously as well. She is an adult, with a partner...people have the right to privacy.

I think that might be most of what they were doing....driving around.

I agree. I think there were a lot of romanticized ideas about what they would be doing on her trip. Many Long distance relationships are seen with rose colored glasses. Especially before people meet in real life. I have been there. I am sure her ideas of exploring and being out in the desert world, where very different than JRK. She is very cultured, well traveled, and has assimilated into other cultures. Heat during the day can really limit activity. Finances/lifestyle, and simple lost in translation plans do occur.

 

[BlaiseFinlay]

I think the misrepresentations that we've since learned were made to LE when FJ was reported missing probably didn't help relations between the family and LE. It just makes LE's job harder -- and updates are going to be limited at the best of times in missing person cases. Not much good comes from providing a premature update. I'm just saying this to make the point that the criticisms of the SBCSO may be unfair. It's clear they are doing what they can to find her. MOO.

I remain curious about the reason for the July 22nd phone calls to FJ and whether that was normal for them. They were less than a day after her last communication, so nothing unusual had happened yet from that perspective. I wouldn't expect someone traveling in a different time zone, on a romantic trip no less, to pick up the phone when I called. So what was the reason they called after receiving the July 21st video? Did they find it out of character for her?

 

[patternsfinder]

I keep getting stuck on this: No one would go camping anywhere in this area in late July, particularly this year, but also truly any year. Sometimes I sleep outside (in JT) if there is a notable summer meteor shower or whatever. By 7:30am in the summer the sun is so intense I can't sleep or be outside and have to retreat indoors.

Joshua Tree National Park has blown up in popularity in recent years, and in "high season" (fall to spring) it is hard to get campgrounds. In the summer it is so hot that my friends and I sometimes will go "camp" because the National Park is so empty, so it is easy to get the good spots and no one is around. When we summer "camp" in the park, we show up around sunset, set up, cook over fire, hang out under stars, sleep, wake up, have coffee together, and then go home by 8am-ish as it's too hot to stay there.

Also JF shared absolutely no photos that showed camping anywhere. It's also notably weird that she shared no photos of any of the popular and wildly beautiful parts of Joshua Tree National Park. When you drive in through the JT entrance, which most people do, in part because of the beauty, it is like entering into another planet. So strange and gorgeous. But she shows no images anywhere discernable in the actual national park. (The mine area photographed on the 21st is in 29, mostly outside of the park official boundaries.) In particular, visitors to the Park tend to be in awe of, and photograph, the unique rock formations. This is a video I found that shows the drive in from the JT entrance, to show the difference between the Park, and the unique rock formations, and what was captured in JF's photos. (Maybe if you don't know the area, you can't tell the difference. But the rock formations in the Park are larger, redder, rocks in strange formations. Not like anything seen in the photos JF shared.)

I also went back to the google drive of JF's photos and videos today. It is clear by the images and videos she sent that her first day they did drive down the 62 to the 10 out towards Thermal. This makes no sense to do with a visitor who wants to see the beauty of the desert. There must have been some non-desert tourist reason they went that way on her first day out here.

Perhaps when JF said "camp," she meant something other than going to a campgrounds, setting up a tent, or otherwise sleeping out under the stars. But it strikes me as odd that her final text talked about preparing to camp, on July 21st, when it was notably over 100 degrees, and any actual camping would require you leave for shelter by 8am, and she has shared no signs of actually camping in Joshua Tree, which would be the "coolest" (temp wise) place to camp out of all possible options in the area.

 

[hazel324]

I think the misrepresentations that we've since learned were made to LE when FJ was reported missing probably didn't help relations between the family and LE. It just makes LE's job harder -- and updates are going to be limited at the best of times in missing person cases. Not much good comes from providing a premature update. I'm just saying this to make the point that the criticisms of the SBCSO may be unfair. It's clear they are doing what they can to find her. MOO.

I remain curious about the reason for the July 22nd phone calls to FJ and whether that was normal for them. They were less than a day after her last communication, so nothing unusual had happened yet from that perspective. I wouldn't expect someone traveling in a different time zone, on a romantic trip no less, to pick up the phone when I called. So what was the reason they called after receiving the July 21st video? Did they find it out of character for her?

It's hardly a premature update to tell family that most of her belongings were there at JRF's place when they searched on 8/1....whilst keeping the voluntarily missing status. Of course these two things just don't match up!

The only discrepancy from family was the hired guide/romantic interest point of view and that's not exactly a biggie! A podcaster I know says that when someone goes missing it's quite usual that all info given to LE isn't entirely accurate from a 'save face' point of view. Am not saying this is okay or not a problem but am sure LE are used to it and it shouldn't affect relations between them and the family.

Also, again, not saying they should've been given all and any info....the bare minimum - her belonging have been located at his place and her disappearance is suspicious!! Not hard to provide the minimum amount of truthful details....or is it ?? I'm stating facts of the situation, not making unfair criticism

I've just never seen this before in a missing persons case...

 

[mark1969]

IMHO it's questionable if it was Fang Jin sending the messages on the 21st no one actually spoke to her IIRC and @mark1969 hasn't actually answered if there are even photos of her or him from the 21st it's all landscapes accept i see a silhouette in one pic that i feel is def NOT JF and of course the dreadful video.

SInce we believe that John did NOT have wechat on his phone , we also believe that he did not would have pretended by using her wechat how to put moments and send pictures with chinese comments..... So we believe for 80% that she handled herselve her own wechat account probably by her own cellphone ....

 

[tarabull]

Thanks @mark1969.

That"s great to know - 80% certain Fang did her own communicating with her own hands via her cell phone which has not been found.

 

[L'Eau_d'Hiver]

I think what is meant is that the Sheriff's office is not speaking to the media, to either confirm or deny. All the records are sealed to prevent media access.

That is not the same as the Sheriff's office not knowing whose are the remains.

It's not that they can't figure it out, it's that they won't tell media.

I think the statements to the family were private, and not intended as a general public announcement, but someone (a PI?) leaked it to them.

JMO

If I'm not wrong, according to The San Diego Union Tribune, it's DH who said that investigators notified family members in early October that the remains were those of JRF...

 

[Megnut]

I keep getting stuck on this: No one would go camping anywhere in this area in late July, particularly this year, but also truly any year. Sometimes I sleep outside (in JT) if there is a notable summer meteor shower or whatever. By 7:30am in the summer the sun is so intense I can't sleep or be outside and have to retreat indoors.

Joshua Tree National Park has blown up in popularity in recent years, and in "high season" (fall to spring) it is hard to get campgrounds. In the summer it is so hot that my friends and I sometimes will go "camp" because the National Park is so empty, so it is easy to get the good spots and no one is around. When we summer "camp" in the park, we show up around sunset, set up, cook over fire, hang out under stars, sleep, wake up, have coffee together, and then go home by 8am-ish as it's too hot to stay there.

Also JF shared absolutely no photos that showed camping anywhere. It's also notably weird that she shared no photos of any of the popular and wildly beautiful parts of Joshua Tree National Park. When you drive in through the JT entrance, which most people do, in part because of the beauty, it is like entering into another planet. So strange and gorgeous. But she shows no images anywhere discernable in the actual national park. (The mine area photographed on the 21st is in 29, mostly outside of the park official boundaries.) In particular, visitors to the Park tend to be in awe of, and photograph, the unique rock formations. This is a video I found that shows the drive in from the JT entrance, to show the difference between the Park, and the unique rock formations, and what was captured in JF's photos. (Maybe if you don't know the area, you can't tell the difference. But the rock formations in the Park are larger, redder, rocks in strange formations. Not like anything seen in the photos JF shared.)

I also went back to the google drive of JF's photos and videos today. It is clear by the images and videos she sent that her first day they did drive down the 62 to the 10 out towards Thermal. This makes no sense to do with a visitor who wants to see the beauty of the desert. There must have been some non-desert tourist reason they went that way on her first day out here.

Perhaps when JF said "camp," she meant something other than going to a campgrounds, setting up a tent, or otherwise sleeping out under the stars. But it strikes me as odd that her final text talked about preparing to camp, on July 21st, when it was notably over 100 degrees, and any actual camping would require you leave for shelter by 8am, and she has shared no signs of actually camping in Joshua Tree, which would be the "coolest" (temp wise) place to camp out of all possible options in the area.

Maybe the draw was nighttime camping! Not for the scenery but for the night sky. The stars, the vastness...

Jmo

 

[LucyOso]

@mark1969 I know sometimes words get lost in translation or can have different meanings in different cultures and languages. The word "camping", the act of camping, or the idea of camping, is that different than what we think of it in the USA? Context might be helpful. Just curious.

 

[ch_13]

@mark1969 I know sometimes words get lost in translation or can have different meanings in different cultures and languages. The word "camping", the act of camping, or the idea of camping, is that different than what we think of it in the USA? Context might be helpful. Just curious.

Obviously, I'm not Mark, and he can provide more insight here.

But, I had at the same question as you and did some research. Apparently over the last ten years (and especially during the pandemic) camping has become a fad in China. It's still not as popular in the U.S., but something like 3% of the population goes camping every year (compared to 10% amongst Americans).

How Camping Became the New Travel Trend in China - Toppan Digital Language

Camping has become the new travel trend in China for young Chinese travelers and many overseas outdoor brands are eyeing the Chinese market.

toppandigital.com

Is China’s Camping Craze Over? - RADII - Transcend boundaries

The pandemic led to an explosion in the popularity of camping in China. Since China’s borders reopened last December, though, the craze has shown signs of slowing

radii.co

From what I've been reading a lot of it is higher-end and more luxurious, what we might call "glamping". But good old fashioned minimalist camping (tent + sleeping bag + campfire) is practiced too.

In any case, it does seem like FJ's family and friends would be familiar with the concept at least.

 

[slowpoke]

Perhaps when JF said "camp," she meant something other than going to a campgrounds, setting up a tent, or otherwise sleeping out under the stars. But it strikes me as odd that her final text talked about preparing to camp, on July 21st, when it was notably over 100 degrees, and any actual camping would require you leave for shelter by 8am, and she has shared no signs of actually camping in Joshua Tree, which would be the "coolest" (temp wise) place to camp out of all possible options in the area.

snipped ^

Maybe Fang telling the family she’s “camping” with JRF was meant to be a harmless ‘untruth’ to avoid hearing the criticism and disapproving remarks from her family members, even though she’s a grown woman and is allowed to forge her own path.

I’ve seen no photos that evidenced they did any camping at all, which I’d think would be normal fun pics to want to share with loved ones back home.

JMO

 

[JerseyGirl]

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