4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #95

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When BK has his penalty phase trial if convicted, then everything about him is fair game to keep the jury from giving him a death sentence and if a MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL can testify to physical emotional mental problems from say, his whole lifetime with VS, then this might be seen by the jury as a mitigating factor.

The jury weighs what they think should be or should not be considered a mitigating factor. If there is a penalty phase trial I expect psychiatrists and family to testify. Points about what a good person he was and points about physical mental emotional problems.

Also, all DP defendants are required to have mitigation specialists on the team.

2 Cents
LWOP would be acceptable, though. JMO

I was wondering if the defense was planning to use that information as part of his actual defense, to explain why he would not have been the killer.

If they plan to use that, he'll need to be fully examined and assessed by professionals.
 
MOO having a condition, or mental illness is immaterial in my opinion except for the first episode of schizophenia, where it is in fact possible for the person to actually hallucinate they are in danger or are commanded to kill someone.
After the first episode they know there is something wrong with their thinking, even when having subsequent episodes.
Many people suffer from many grievious things and terrible abuse and do not murder, a murderer should not get consideration for the same suffering.
 
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LWOP would be acceptable, though. JMO

I was wondering if the defense was planning to use that information as part of his actual defense, to explain why he would not have been the killer.

If they plan to use that, he'll need to be fully examined and assessed by professionals.

Yes

I remember from the DP Wagner Cases that all kinds of investigative and mental health experts were hired.
For a Penalty Phase DP trial the defendants have to be competent and not mentally ill or diminished in any way to even get the DP.

I expect BK to be examined by just about everyone.

I am for LWOP....(Maximum Security)

2 Cents
 
Good points thanks.

Here's the thing......I believe for any weight to be given to VS as a contributing factor a qualified psychologist or doctor needed to get it into his medical record.

Now, if it is in his medical record from when he was only 15 years old I am not sure that it would help him because it was over 10 years later when he committed his crimes.

If VS was such a hindering influence in his emotional and mental well-being then why go 10 years without consulting a professional to get medication to help deal with it? I mean why did he never go to get medical help for it as an adult?

The VS disease is a legitimate mental/health diagnoses but juries need medical proof that medical attention was sought, doctors diagnosed it, medication did not help.

***

If VS made BK violent then the mitigation expert needs to put on witnessess or police reports to show past violent episodes and all I am seeing is he put a friend's head in a headlock as a teenager and told his dad:

"Don't do something stupid" when BK stole his sister's phone to buy drugs.

And there is another issue....

Were BK's VS symptoms from or aggravated by his Heroin use? I believe his Heroin use is documented.

This is another whole ball of wax.

2 Cents

If it is in his medical records when he was 15 it is absolutely relevant to his actions in his twenties. In his posts he mentions that it had been going on for years, as had the DP/DR that accompanied it. 1) Experiencing DP/DR kind of disconnect for years during the formative teen years is going to have long lasting effects on his personality and socialization. 2) VSS, as a general rule, doesn't just go away on its own. It may lessen, and the patient may have better adapting skills over time, but chances of it spontaneously disappearing are close to zero. Even any success with medication usually results in just reducing it, not erasing it entirely. For patients who get little help from medications, the one of the commonly recommended strategies for dealing with it is----literally to learn how to not fixate on it/begin to ignore it. For people with certain co-occurring mental health issues, that can be nearly impossible.

He did try medication for it--Topamax (migraine medication often tried for VSS because VSS can sometimes be caused by migraines). He had a very bad reaction to it. He mentions the doctor trying several medications, but not by name--the usuals are Lamictal, gabapentin, propranalol, benzos, and Zoloft. My own son did several different regimens, most had little to no positive effect (oh, but the side effects.....ugh).

He reports this started long before his heroin usage. Hallucinogenic drugs can be the cause of an associated visual snow syndrome called HPPD, but heroin wouldn't cause it. It could worsen VSS in a person who already has it. The heroin usage could certainly make the DP/DR worse.

There is no proof that he didn't continue to see specialists or try medications throughout his late teens and early twenties. I can tell you that after multiple medication regimens provided little improvement but a ton of side effects, my son's neuropthalmologist said he'd probably be better off stopping the medications and focusing on therapy/reducing inflammation/etc.

Let me clarify--the VS in and of itself wouldn't make him violent. The resulting DP/DR combined with other likely mental health issues that can be associated with this can form and shape a personality into the kind of individual who can commit the kind of crime that he is accused of.

How did he get through degrees with all this? Rigid self control and the ability to mask just barely enough to get by in specific environments.

None of this excuses what he did. Personally, I don't think it should make a difference between LWOP and death penalty, because I no longer support the death penalty. None of this is a direct A to B line from dots in your vision to brutally murdering people. But they are pieces of the puzzle of how he formed into the person he is. And that's something worth studying.
 
If it is in his medical records when he was 15 it is absolutely relevant to his actions in his twenties. In his posts he mentions that it had been going on for years, as had the DP/DR that accompanied it. 1) Experiencing DP/DR kind of disconnect for years during the formative teen years is going to have long lasting effects on his personality and socialization. 2) VSS, as a general rule, doesn't just go away on its own. It may lessen, and the patient may have better adapting skills over time, but chances of it spontaneously disappearing are close to zero. Even any success with medication usually results in just reducing it, not erasing it entirely. For patients who get little help from medications, the one of the commonly recommended strategies for dealing with it is----literally to learn how to not fixate on it/begin to ignore it. For people with certain co-occurring mental health issues, that can be nearly impossible.

He did try medication for it--Topamax (migraine medication often tried for VSS because VSS can sometimes be caused by migraines). He had a very bad reaction to it. He mentions the doctor trying several medications, but not by name--the usuals are Lamictal, gabapentin, propranalol, benzos, and Zoloft. My own son did several different regimens, most had little to no positive effect (oh, but the side effects.....ugh).

He reports this started long before his heroin usage. Hallucinogenic drugs can be the cause of an associated visual snow syndrome called HPPD, but heroin wouldn't cause it. It could worsen VSS in a person who already has it. The heroin usage could certainly make the DP/DR worse.

There is no proof that he didn't continue to see specialists or try medications throughout his late teens and early twenties. I can tell you that after multiple medication regimens provided little improvement but a ton of side effects, my son's neuropthalmologist said he'd probably be better off stopping the medications and focusing on therapy/reducing inflammation/etc.

Let me clarify--the VS in and of itself wouldn't make him violent. The resulting DP/DR combined with other likely mental health issues that can be associated with this can form and shape a personality into the kind of individual who can commit the kind of crime that he is accused of.

How did he get through degrees with all this? Rigid self control and the ability to mask just barely enough to get by in specific environments.

None of this excuses what he did. Personally, I don't think it should make a difference between LWOP and death penalty, because I no longer support the death penalty. None of this is a direct A to B line from dots in your vision to brutally murdering people. But they are pieces of the puzzle of how he formed into the person he is. And that's something worth studying.

Thanks.

I will agree with you - because you know about this - that a diagnosis and treatment at age 15 could still be considered for some behavior at age 27.

But personally I myself do not see this as a mitigating factor. A mitigating factor in his poor people skills yes, but not in his aggravated murder crimes. Absolutely not.

2 Cents
 
If visual impairment, drug use, and mental torment is ruled irrelevant as a contributing factor for the crime, why should it be considered during the mitigation phase?

It might not be but the mitigation/defense has to do anything they can to get LWOP. And it could be, might be, illegal to ignore things like this because this s a DP case.

Another consideration....

On November 13th 2022 was BK.....

1.) Suffering visual impairment?
2.) Engaging in illegal drug use?
3.) Suffering mental torment?

A person can be mentally ill when a teen and then mentally competent years later. Whatever BK had as a teen I do not think it had anything to do with November 13, 2022.

I think it is just smoke and mirrors excuses this VS because he was in grad school and did great in college. One of his professors gave him a raving great review.

2 Cents
 
It might not be but the mitigation/defense has to do anything they can to get LWOP. And it could be, might be, illegal to ignore things like this because this s a DP case.

Another consideration....

On November 13th 2022 was BK.....

1.) Suffering visual impairment?
2.) Engaging in illegal drug use?
3.) Suffering mental torment?

A person can be mentally ill when a teen and then mentally competent years later. Whatever BK had as a teen I do not think it had anything to do with November 13, 2022.

I think it is just smoke and mirrors excuses this VS because he was in grad school and did great in college. One of his professors gave him a raving great review.

2 Cents
Agree. Murder is indeendent of privilige or hardship. Besides to many factors is how lesser punishments have been finessed for the white and/ or rich. Incredibly damaging to justice.

Example: the mitigating affliction of "afflenza."

MOO: Kill people get LWOP or possibly DP.
 
Is it known what VSS is exactly, physiologically? I mean, is it a problem in the brain or in the eyes or something else? IIUC, it manifests as a vision problem, like seeing static or dots or SNOW (hence the name), but are there other common physical symptoms? I suppose they don't know what causes it? How common is it? Could you have it and not know it?
 
Is it known what VSS is exactly, physiologically? I mean, is it a problem in the brain or in the eyes or something else? IIUC, it manifests as a vision problem, like seeing static or dots or SNOW (hence the name), but are there other common physical symptoms? I suppose they don't know what causes it? How common is it? Could you have it and not know it?
It's neurological.

My partner meets the criteria. She also has had continuous migraine visual aura symptoms for over twenty years. The two conditions can overlap, but VSS can also present in people who don't experience migraines. It's not really understood why or how it develops, though there are theories. Most people have it for life once it begins.


MOO
 

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