4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #95

[PinkParis2052]

By the definition of neurodivergence, he is neurodivergent just based on his VSS.

Do you mean Visual Snow Syndrome (VSS)? Thank you

 

[schooling]

Yes, they DO KNOW HOW BK's cells got on the sheath snap.

BK's DNA is specifically TOUCH DNA. BK touched the sheath and left his skin cells. He himself needed to touch the sheath snap to leave enough DNA to gain a complete profile that matches him.

Touch DNA is specifically defined as DNA transferred from a person to an object via contact with the object itself.

Touch DNA is also called “contact DNA”, “trace DNA”, or “transfer DNA”.

Touch DNA Sampling Methods: Efficacy Evaluation and Systematic Review - PMC

Collection and interpretation of “touch DNA” from crime scenes represent crucial steps during criminal investigations, with clear consequences in courtrooms. Although the main aspects of this type of evidence have been extensively studied, some ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In my opinion it is not reasonable for any juror to believe that someone took a Q-tip DNA cheek sample from BK's mouth and then before the Q-tip dries they rub the Q-tip on the sheath snap in the hopes of making it look like BK touched the sheath snap himself. Ludicrous. Not reasonable.

What IS reasonable?

BK touched the sheath snap himself.

I’ve yet to see a reasonable alternative theory. I’ve seen a lot of people implying things with no evidence.

IMO if the jury can not think of a reasonable alternative to BK leaving the DNA on the murder sheath himself…it’s a guilty verdict.

 

[schooling]

From what I can find Sy Ray who is a former police detective has testified for the state hundreds of times and this is the first time he has ever testified for the defense that I can find. IMO that speaks volumes that this is literally the first and ONLY time Sy Ray has ever testified for the defense.

MOO

it’s not speaking volumes here. If it spoke as loud as the defense seems to be implying AT would be calling for an emergency hearing and for BKs immediate release.

IMO That alone is proof that the evidence Sy has is more likely than not HIGHLY subjective and will come down to the authority of the person presenting it.

And when it comes to subjective evidence I’m
Going to side with the FBIs interpretation.

I wonder if prosecutors will be allowed to ask him about his true crime podcast as part of the discussion of his experience.

MOO

 

[Swansee]

Regarding Sy Ray 's credibility:
From what I've read here the potential issue is with the reliability of his Trax software, NOT with Sy Ray's skill and expertise at using and interpreting CAST or CASTviz in general.
Even if his own software were to be completely discredited (which it isn't really isn't) it does not diminish in any way the fact that he is highly skilled in his ability to use and interpret the CAST software used by LE in this case.
IMO it's an important distinction.
MOO etc

 

[Cool Cats]

I’ve yet to see a reasonable alternative theory. I’ve seen a lot of people implying things with no evidence.

IMO if the jury can not think of a reasonable alternative to BK leaving the DNA on the murder sheath himself…it’s a guilty verdict.

Trials are about evidence. The defense would have to show evidence with expert testimony, evidence to prove that person A did this and was seen leaving this and so on.

Trials are not...maybe, um, if we had more evidence, I think, could have....etc....

I get tired of all the maybe, could haves, exonerating evidence is missing, etc.....

2 Cents

 

[GRT]

One thing about the nights he pinged in Moscow, when he drives around he often goes to Moscow.
MOO its just not believable that a PhD student of criminalogy cant remember where he was driving around the night 4 students are murdered.

That's a good point. Had he found out about the murders a couple of weeks after that night, it might stand to reason that he wouldn't remember exactly where he was driving--thinking back.

But, those murders were front page news the day after they happened, and anyone who would have been nearby at the time most likely would remember exactly where they'd been because they'd been so close to the event.

And he should remember not just because he's a doctoral student. Anyone who wasn't passed out due to drugs or alcohol should remember.

That story may well work against him.

 

[GRT]

Regarding Sy Ray 's credibility:
From what I've read here the potential issue is with the reliability of his Trax software, NOT with Sy Ray's skill and expertise at using and interpreting CAST or CASTviz in general.
Even if his own software were to be completely discredited (which it isn't really isn't) it does not diminish in any way the fact that he is highly skilled in his ability to use and interpret the CAST software used by LE in this case.
IMO it's an important distinction.
MOO etc

Yes, that's an important distinction. I think the Colorado judge made that point as well.

But, his software is also highly respected. He's used it and testified in many cases for the prosecution. Cases that saw convictions. In the one I posted earlier concerning the murder of NM girl, it was one of the few pieces of evidence that helped secure a conviction.

I don't think the prosecution will be able to denigrate Sy's credibility; they'll have to take a different approach.

 

[GRT]

Sy Ray, iiuc, is former LE. Bet he's testified plenty for the State. As LE.

JMO

Yes, I think he will be a solid expert witness.

But, there will be other solid expert witnesses as well.

I don't think BK will walk, but I think there could be lengthy jury deliberations.

All MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Sorry to be so ignorant, but if I don't ask, I'll remain that way. For what does VSS stand? TIA

Visual Snow Syndrome.

Neurodivergence includes a broad range of people with both congenital and acquired conditions. It's an umbrella term that covers basically anyone who doesn't have a 'typical' brain.

MOO

 

[Betty P]

Visual Snow Syndrome.

Neurodivergence includes a broad range of people with both congenital and acquired conditions. It's an umbrella term that covers basically anyone who doesn't have a 'typical' brain.

MOO

How would Visual Snow Syndrome apply to BK in this case?

 

[iamshadow21]

How would Visual Snow Syndrome apply to BK in this case?

BK's Visual Snow Syndrome has been discussed at length in these threads.

He has it.

It's not a mitigating factor, IMO.

 

[Boxer]

BK's Visual Snow Syndrome has been discussed at length in these threads.

He has it.

It's not a mitigating factor, IMO.

He says he has it. MOO not diagnsosed. Not sure he does actually have it.
It's a great cover for staring.

 

[Cool Cats]

How would Visual Snow Syndrome apply to BK in this case?

When BK has his penalty phase trial if convicted, then everything about him is fair game to keep the jury from giving him a death sentence and if a MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL can testify to physical emotional mental problems from say, his whole lifetime with VS, then this might be seen by the jury as a mitigating factor.

The jury weighs what they think should be or should not be considered a mitigating factor. If there is a penalty phase trial I expect psychiatrists and family to testify. Points about what a good person he was and points about physical mental emotional problems.

Also, all DP defendants are required to have mitigation specialists on the team.

2 Cents

 

[gremlin444]

He says he has it. MOO not diagnsosed. Not sure he does actually have it.
It's a great cover for staring.

If we are going by his Tapatalk posts, he does have it. He saw ophthalmologists, psychiatrists, had imaging done of blood vessels in/around his eyes, was tested for migraines, etc. At the time he was posting about this (2009-2012), it was really hard to get a diagnosis of VSS. It's not something most GPs or ophthalmologists were well versed in, and many still aren't. My 22 yo son was diagnosed with it in 2019--and that was only after going to the psychiatrist, GP, ophthalmologist, neurologist, having a MRI, tons of blood work, and finally getting a referral to a neuro-ophthalmologist at a major teaching hospital where she did a ton of tests. There really are no tests to confirm VSS--it's more a matter of testing to eliminate other possibilities...which is why it's often not diagnosed. The medications he mentions and the effects they had are all in line with VSS. The mental health effects he mentions such as disassociation/depersonalization/derealization can be quite common with VSS. Personally, I don't doubt that he has it. It's certainly not an excuse for his behavior, but given how for some people VSS has some very strong ties to mental health issues (if the VSS wasn't caused by LSD or marijuana use), it can help give us a better picture of aspects of his personality.

And before someone brings it up again--VSS does not make night driving impossible for everyone. Because VSS has different causes and triggers, for some people their vision is better at night. Lower light for my son both reduces the intensity of his VSS and makes it easier to "ignore/adapt to" the lowered VSS. For him, broad daylight makes it much much worse. For some VSS patients, the absence of bright lights does not reduce their VSS, so their VSS is just as strong at night time as it is during the day.

 

[mmeynstyn]

When BK has his penalty phase trial if convicted, then everything about him is fair game to keep the jury from giving him a death sentence and if a MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL can testify to physical emotional mental problems from say, his whole lifetime with VS, then this might be seen by the jury as a mitigating factor.

The jury weighs what they think should be or should not be considered a mitigating factor. If there is a penalty phase trial I expect psychiatrists and family to testify. Points about what a good person he was and points about physical mental emotional problems.

Also, all DP defendants are required to have mitigation specialists on the team.

2 Cents

Thank you for that response. Not sure if you are the right person to ask; but, what about his social media posts regarding inability to feel emotion (VSS Tapatalk) and/or the survey for his Master's Thesis? Could either of those come in during the trial as motivating factors? At one point I wondered if that is why he did it - to see what it would take for him to feel alive (NOTE: my words/description only as I can't recall the exact words used in those posts).

 

[NCWatcher]

Thank you for that response. Not sure if you are the right person to ask; but, what about his social media posts regarding inability to feel emotion (VSS Tapatalk) and/or the survey for his Master's Thesis? Could either of those come in during the trial as motivating factors? At one point I wondered if that is why he did it - to see what it would take for him to feel alive (NOTE: my words/description only as I can't recall the exact words used in those posts).

I don't think the term is "motivating factors." I think it's "aggravating factors." That matters mainly because the words do carry different connotations.

I don't think the things you mention would be considered relevant at trial. But I'm not an attorney.
MOO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Visual Snow Syndrome.

Neurodivergence includes a broad range of people with both congenital and acquired conditions. It's an umbrella term that covers basically anyone who doesn't have a 'typical' brain.

MOO

Thank you for this information!

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you for that response. Not sure if you are the right person to ask; but, what about his social media posts regarding inability to feel emotion (VSS Tapatalk) and/or the survey for his Master's Thesis? Could either of those come in during the trial as motivating factors? At one point I wondered if that is why he did it - to see what it would take for him to feel alive (NOTE: my words/description only as I can't recall the exact words used in those posts).

The thing is that in Penalty Phase Trials there are 2 factors going on.

It is the defense that is arguing for the Mitigating Factors like the mental issues, bad childhood, good deeds done, etc...

It is the prosecutors who strongly argue for the Aggravating Factors which are all the reasons why the crime was so bad there should be the DP imposed and also they will try to "kill" the Mitigating Factors.

If a verified physician saw and diagnosed BK with VS and there is proof that the online VS posts are in fact his, then yes, I believe his physician can use his VS posts to bolster his case for VS impairment.

But, the prosecution will try to "kill" this....negate it.....downplay it.

I believe the prosecution would counter this with their own VS expert to downplay the roll VS played in BK's life...especially because it did not stop him from gaining higher education and doing many other things like driving at night, etc...Visual Snow did not stop him from seeing at night to drive or stop him from pretty much anything else he wanted to do.

Defense = Mitigating factors to get him LWOP

Prosecution = Aggravating factors to get him the death penalty.

18 U.S. Code § 3592 - Mitigating and aggravating factors to be considered in determining whether a sentence of death is justified​

18 U.S. Code § 3592 - Mitigating and aggravating factors to be considered in determining whether a sentence of death is justified

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[gremlin444]

I believe the prosecution would counter this with their own VS expert to downplay the roll VS played in BK's life...especially because it did not stop him from gaining higher education and doing many other things like driving at night, etc...Visual Snow did not stop him from seeing at night to drive or stop him from pretty much anything else he wanted to do.

Let me be clear--I think he's guilty.

While I don't agree with the defense in general, I can tell you exactly what their VSS and/or psychiatric expert will say and SHOULD say is a contributing factor...and that is the effect VSS has on mental health and how it can cause depersonalization/derealization in some individuals. I think it's pretty easy to see how DP/DR could be seen in how he related to others. Do all people with VSS or DP/DR become murderers--no. But in BK's case I feel they are all major ingredients in the soup.

Do I think it should change whether he gets LWOP or DP? I don't have a way to have an opinion on that because I no longer believe in the death penalty in general.

The reason I think the VSS and DP/DR is important to analyze by criminologists/psych field/etc is because I think it played a huge role in forming the person he became and leading to his actions. And that's what we are always hoping to do, isn't it--figure out what kind of person kills others....what factors released them from the typical moral codes? Try to figure out more about the brain?

 

[Cool Cats]

Let me be clear--I think he's guilty.

While I don't agree with the defense in general, I can tell you exactly what their VSS and/or psychiatric expert will say and SHOULD say is a contributing factor...and that is the effect VSS has on mental health and how it can cause depersonalization/derealization in some individuals. I think it's pretty easy to see how DP/DR could be seen in how he related to others. Do all people with VSS or DP/DR become murderers--no. But in BK's case I feel they are all major ingredients in the soup.

Do I think it should change whether he gets LWOP or DP? I don't have a way to have an opinion on that because I no longer believe in the death penalty in general.

The reason I think the VSS and DP/DR is important to analyze by criminologists/psych field/etc is because I think it played a huge role in forming the person he became and leading to his actions. And that's what we are always hoping to do, isn't it--figure out what kind of person kills others....what factors released them from the typical moral codes? Try to figure out more about the brain?

Good points thanks.

Here's the thing......I believe for any weight to be given to VS as a contributing factor a qualified psychologist or doctor needed to get it into his medical record.

Now, if it is in his medical record from when he was only 15 years old I am not sure that it would help him because it was over 10 years later when he committed his crimes.

If VS was such a hindering influence in his emotional and mental well-being then why go 10 years without consulting a professional to get medication to help deal with it? I mean why did he never go to get medical help for it as an adult?

The VS disease is a legitimate mental/health diagnoses but juries need medical proof that medical attention was sought, doctors diagnosed it, medication did not help.

We do not know what VS documentation a mitigation expert could or would present to a jury and no matter what is presented as a VS mitigation factor it will be and can be countered by a prosecution VS expert.

If VS made BK violent then the mitigation expert needs to put on witnessess or police reports to show past violent episodes and all I am seeing is he put a friend's head in a headlock as a teenager and told his dad:

"Don't do something stupid" when BK stole his sister's phone to buy drugs.

And there is another issue....

Were BK's VS symptoms from or aggravated by his Heroin use? I believe his Heroin use is documented.

This is another whole ball of wax.

2 Cents