CA - Fire and police crews watch man drown, ‘Handcuffed by policy'

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Trident

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Trident said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelo...-policy-fire-and-police-crews-watch-man-drown

In my opinion, these men need to hand in their badges and certifications and take a course in basic humanity. This is past disgusting.
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Just food for thought. If they are not allowed, due to job rules, to rescue someone in the water, and they do, that could have major ramafications. Say they sucessfully rescue the guy. The guy then sues. Due to the fact that they went against policy, they are laid off/put on leave/fired as well as having to find their own legal representation. So now you have men who, worst case scenario, don't have jobs and are defending themselves in a lawsuit. They may lose everything and have a difficult time finding another job. While the humane thing to do would be to save the man, their hands may very well have been tied if you look at the possible fall out from not following the rules of your job.

I'm not looking to argue, just presenting a different side to look at.
 
Lyn1001 said:
Just food for thought. If they are not allowed, due to job rules, to rescue someone in the water, and they do, that could have major ramafications. Say they sucessfully rescue the guy. The guy then sues. Due to the fact that they went against policy, they are laid off/put on leave/fired as well as having to find their own legal representation. So now you have men who, worst case scenario, don't have jobs and are defending themselves in a lawsuit. They may lose everything and have a difficult time finding another job. While the humane thing to do would be to save the man, their hands may very well have been tied if you look at the possible fall out from not following the rules of your job.

I'm not looking to argue, just presenting a different side to look at.
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I do appreciate your side, I gave that some thought myself. However, how could I face God, my fellow man, myself, if I let someone drown without lifting a finger. Sometimes we have to throw off the shackles placed on us by buruacracy, and think/act like human beings. We are human, are we not? When we stop caring about our fellow man then the evil of this world has programmed us to their specs, and this seems to be a real test case of how they're doing - seems evil is doing very well.

My opinion only
 
This absolutely sickens me. How can anyone stand by and watch someone die? Our world seems to have become such an unfeeling, uncaring and lonely place. I cannot get over this...it hurts to think about it. This makes me so sad.
 
According to the article, the man stood in the water for nearly an hour. (That in itself is quite a feat, given how cold the water must have been this time of year!)

At what point did the bystanders realize he was suicidal and how did they know?
 
wow, and the guy would stop and look back, probably wondering if someone would rescue him. if he was having any thoughts about deciding to live instead i bet the fact that they all just stood there and did nothing cemented his thought to go through with the deed. he probably felt like a total failure that no one would even save him.

so what did they do, grab his body after they waited for him to die? wow. is clean up cheaper than saving a live person?
 
MistyM said:
wow, and the guy would stop and look back, probably wondering if someone would rescue him. if he was having any thoughts about deciding to live instead i bet the fact that they all just stood there and did nothing cemented his thought to go through with the deed. he probably felt like a total failure that no one would even save him.

so what did they do, grab his body after they waited for him to die? wow. is clean up cheaper than saving a live person?
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No, but it is safer. If I remember my lifeguard training (45 years ago), a drowning person is a very serious threat to take a would-be rescuer down with him. The article mentions a lack of equipment--maybe they didn't have the equipment that protects rescuers who are trying to save panicked people.

I'm not defending the decision to stand and do nothing. I'm just saying the article we have is rather vague in a number of respects.
 
MistyM said:
wow, and the guy would stop and look back, probably wondering if someone would rescue him. if he was having any thoughts about deciding to live instead i bet the fact that they all just stood there and did nothing cemented his thought to go through with the deed. he probably felt like a total failure that no one would even save him.

so what did they do, grab his body after they waited for him to die? wow. is clean up cheaper than saving a live person?
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This story is disgusting. Truly disgusting. I could not have stood there and watched. If I had attempted to rescue him and he fought me, well at least I would know I tried. I cant help but think the glances back could have been a silent call for help. I wonder if anyone even attempted to talk to him? This will bother me for a while.
 
another article said he was already in the water when the step mom called the police - he's a big guy - I'm not sure how you would subdue him in the water and be safe...sad all the way around.
 
Gotta have rules. That's why we're here - to follow rules.
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you know...swat teams wait people out for hours, and sometimes they are successful and sometimes they are not, same with police and firefighters who work with people on ledges - they always have to protect themselves.

I think the issue is how long it took for Raymond to succumb.
 
It does seem odd that in almost an hour, they couldn't get somebody into a wet suit and out to at least talk to the guy, even if they didn't have the equipment and training to force the guy into shore.
 
More devil's advocate....

If there were other's standing on shore who, from the sounds of it, had the same amount of training and equipment as the professionals (none), why didn't they help?
 
Lyn1001 said:
More devil's advocate....

If there were other's standing on shore who, from the sounds of it, had the same amount of training and equipment as the professionals (none), why didn't they help?
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I don't know what discussions took place, but if I walked up to a situation where firemen were present, my first instinct would be to stand back and out of their way, not to jump in and intervene.
 
Nova said:
I don't know what discussions took place, but if I walked up to a situation where firemen were present, my first instinct would be to stand back and out of their way, not to jump in and intervene.
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Agreed. However, I probably would have asked why the heck they weren't doing anything. If they responded that they were not allowed, I would have done something. Heck, even if I stood there for 30 minutes and they did nothing I probably still would have stepped in.
 
75 people had an hour to do something, and no one could think of a thing to do??????????

They stood and watched?????!!!!!????

People in uniform did NOTHING??????

SHAME on all of them.

Go tell your kids why you did nothing.
 
I'm not going to be so hard on them. It didn't say they didn't want to, it only said they didn't have the equipment or training. That is not their fault. It sounds like they were watching from across the bay? It wasn't like he was right in front of him.
I am guessing they are all traumatized by the incidence.
 
not okay. not on any level or by any justification. i would rather meet God with the man than have to answer when my Father asked "why did you just stand there and let my child drown?"
jmo mho moo and all that jazz
 
It seems there would be more reason to sue after they just stood around doing nothing ??? What am I missing here??
 
OMG. 75 people and one hour? When did it become acceptable to just stand by and watch someone who COULD be saved die???

An hour is a long time. Even if no one there was trained or capable of saving this man's life, they had plenty of time to call for someone who did.

Shame, shame, shame on all of them. WTH kind of world are we living in here?

Whatever his demons, may he rest in peace.
 
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