Philigumbo
Verified registered nurse
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2012
- Messages
- 733
- Reaction score
- 1,276
I think because IF knew GB was getting drugs, she became instantly worried. I would. I'm still so surprised by the drugs. :0(
MOO.
GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #3
- Thread starter bessie
- Start date
I think because IF knew GB was getting drugs, she became instantly worried. I would. I'm still so surprised by the drugs. :0(
MOO.
I have been waiting to post after reading every single one of your comments since the preliminary hearing ... suffice it to say, I was blown away by what came out in the PH with regards to the drugs. I would guess that many of us may have initially suspected drugs before we found out so much about how good of kids these were, no drugs found in autopsies, etc. I'm still digesting everything and I feel a little bit possessed by this case. Here's a "thanks" to everyone for providing excellent food for thought.
A few quick thoughts that I want to throw out there:
--I can't even watch scary movies because I'm such a baby, so does anyone else feel mystified by Ilona's incredibly calm 911 call? I would have been soiling myself to have witnessed what she did and to know that she was the next target. From the beginning, I've admired her demeanor in the face of certain tragedy. Was the calmness a result of drugs or perhaps expecting what might be coming?
--I don't feel like Ilona would have been shot had it not been for her getting on the phone. The killer had no choice but to shoot if he wanted to try to get away with this.
--Any chance that someone drugged GB and forced him to commit the murders himself? I hate to even think that way (and please don't run me out of here for suggesting that:seeya
, but it seems like the public defender is setting us up for that suggestion.
--Gang photos ... great find! The main thing I noticed in that final group photo was the striped jacket worn by the guy in the upper right?
I'm still pondering this way more than I should, but nothing makes sense to me in the entire situation. I am truly obsessed with how and why this happened ... however, I do understand that we may never know.
A few quick thoughts that I want to throw out there:
--I can't even watch scary movies because I'm such a baby, so does anyone else feel mystified by Ilona's incredibly calm 911 call? I would have been soiling myself to have witnessed what she did and to know that she was the next target. From the beginning, I've admired her demeanor in the face of certain tragedy. Was the calmness a result of drugs or perhaps expecting what might be coming?
--I don't feel like Ilona would have been shot had it not been for her getting on the phone. The killer had no choice but to shoot if he wanted to try to get away with this.
--Any chance that someone drugged GB and forced him to commit the murders himself? I hate to even think that way (and please don't run me out of here for suggesting that:seeya
, but it seems like the public defender is setting us up for that suggestion.--Gang photos ... great find! The main thing I noticed in that final group photo was the striped jacket worn by the guy in the upper right?
I'm still pondering this way more than I should, but nothing makes sense to me in the entire situation. I am truly obsessed with how and why this happened ... however, I do understand that we may never know.
I have been waiting to post after reading every single one of your comments since the preliminary hearing ... suffice it to say, I was blown away by what came out in the PH with regards to the drugs. I would guess that many of us may have initially suspected drugs before we found out so much about how good of kids these were, no drugs found in autopsies, etc. I'm still digesting everything and I feel a little bit possessed by this case. Here's a "thanks" to everyone for providing excellent food for thought.
A few quick thoughts that I want to throw out there:
--I can't even watch scary movies because I'm such a baby, so does anyone else feel mystified by Ilona's incredibly calm 911 call? I would have been soiling myself to have witnessed what she did and to know that she was the next target. From the beginning, I've admired her demeanor in the face of certain tragedy. Was the calmness a result of drugs or perhaps expecting what might be coming?
--I don't feel like Ilona would have been shot had it not been for her getting on the phone. The killer had no choice but to shoot if he wanted to try to get away with this.--Any chance that someone drugged GB and forced him to commit the murders himself? I hate to even think that way (and please don't run me out of here for suggesting that:seeya
--Gang photos ... great find! The main thing I noticed in that final group photo was the striped jacket worn by the guy in the upper right?
I'm still pondering this way more than I should, but nothing makes sense to me in the entire situation. I am truly obsessed with how and why this happened ... however, I do understand that we may never know.
BBM
I want to know what prompted IF to call 911 in the first place? Usually when you call 911 they immediately reply "what is your emergency?" Per the search warrants it does not state what her initial response was. It states:
"During the 911 telephone call, FLINT began stating she was at the Westfield Mission Valley shopping Center". FLINT abruptly said "Ow, Ow...I've been shot I am at the Westfield Mission Valley Shopping Center". As the call taker requested additional information, there was no further response...
We assume SB was shot first hence the silence and the call to 911 but I wonder how the call started?
Curious Me
Who When Where What Why & How
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2009
- Messages
- 27,595
- Reaction score
- 114,923
OT - Good News. They caught the local North Park attacker!
Curious Me
Who When Where What Why & How
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2009
- Messages
- 27,595
- Reaction score
- 114,923
I know. You'd think if this was the average, small random mall crime that the suspect would back off the minute they saw someone calling 911. Obviously, this person had a gun and was prepared to kill.
Yet, Ilona's call is haunting in how calm she sounded. She handled it so admirable. Sweet Girl.
atthelake
Former Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2011
- Messages
- 9,979
- Reaction score
- 25
I started following this case late...but went back and read the first thread, skipped and read a few on second, and have read all of this thread. I had NOT seen any msm about her calling hospitals and jails...not in the warrants which I read. Can someone please repost for me to catch up on this as I have viewed as rumor...but seems everyone says as fact.
TIA
atthelake
Former Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2011
- Messages
- 9,979
- Reaction score
- 25
?????
jash
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2011
- Messages
- 3,491
- Reaction score
- 21,470
I've been tossing the idea around in my head that maybe Ilona somehow came to believe that Gianni had been in that parking lot earlier (as GB's phone pings suggest). IIRC, the brothers always waited in that same area when picking her up. Maybe the knit hat, cigarettes and/or baggies found "in close proximity" to the car belonged to GB and she recognized it at such? Could the 911 call have been initiated in a panic to find GB?
Something about the timeline bugs me. As laid out in the warrants/probable cause, Ilona was captured on video footage walking out, with someone (CM?) following about 20 feet behind at 00:21. Ilona called 911 at 01:14. That is almost an hour of time that we don't know anything about. I wonder when she called Sal to pick her up. Did she first walk outside expecting GB would be there waiting or had she already made arrangements with Sal before closing the store? If she had to wait, did she wait inside of Macy's (and was CM keeping eyes on her the entire time)?
It's really unfortunate that there were no cameras in the parking lot.
http://www.10news.com/news/source-man-questioned-in-north-park-attacks
Those charges shouldn't have been published online, imo. :-(
Those charges shouldn't have been published online, imo. :-(
jash
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2011
- Messages
- 3,491
- Reaction score
- 21,470
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/02/carlos-mercado-hearing-belvedere-flint-murders/
Detective [TN] testified Tuesday that Flint called 911 shortly after 1 a.m. on Christmas Eve after leaving her job at a shoe store in the Westfield Mission Valley mall. Phone records indicate that she tried repeatedly to reach her fiance, Gianni, but he did not answer.
She then made calls to three hospitals and the county jail.
She called Salvatore Belvedere to pick her up, who apparently obliged. They were gunned down as they sat in his car.
Philigumbo... what are your thoughts about CM having Aspergers symptoms? Would love to hear what your thoughts are since there is "rumor" CM may have been on meds for this. Sorry I don't have the medication mentioned handy but as a verified nurse just curious. TIA
Curious Me
Who When Where What Why & How
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2009
- Messages
- 27,595
- Reaction score
- 114,923
Sorry, still OT, but since you asked, here you go.
"A 23-year-old man was behind bars Tuesday on suspicion of carrying out a sex-assault series that has spread fear through North Park-area neighborhoods over the last three months."
http://www.cbs8.com/story/26484363/police-arrest-suspect-in-series-of-sexual-assaults
Philigumbo
Verified registered nurse
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2012
- Messages
- 733
- Reaction score
- 1,276
SDHELPS, I'm just not sure what to think yet. His complete lack of interaction and emotion (as I've seen in pics) is definitely troubling; however, there has been such a lack of information about him (by family, friends, attorney, coworkers), it's difficult to get a grasp on him. Aspergers has so many functional and dysfunctional levels, it's impossible to say. Based on varying symptoms, some of which are hyperactivity, aggression, anxiety, compulsive behaviors, poor communication, etc. (and many more), many different medications can be prescribed. There's no one medication that can be said to just be for treatment of Aspergers.
...who simply decided to kill three people for thrills, unable to differentiate between reality and fantasy because of sleepless, week-long sessions of Grand Theft Auto and stale pizza, no other motivation or selection process required. The murdered could have been anybody. Maybe he would have killed me if I was unlucky enough to have met him and he knew when I got off work in the early morning hours.
Or, another scenario: he became aware of Ilona (how?) and developed a obsessive crush on her, but (a) only encountered her (much less contacted her) for the first time in this neurotic quest hours before she died and (b) decided her boyfriend had to die beforehand simply because he was her romantic partner--you know, a twisted revenge fantasy. Sal was just an unlucky sod who must be eternally regretting that the engine turned over in his dad's car that night, having left the ignition on for hours while he listened to 91X beforehand--but not enough to totally exhaust the battery. It was still good for one, final, startup.
=====================
Respectfully, those dogs don't hunt.
There is a purposeful, non-random connection between this killer and his multiple victims that has nothing to do with mental illness (excluding sociopathy, perhaps)--but it has to do with something that we can only speculate on at this point. Remember, these murders were planned and executed with enough finesse that the perp got away and wasn't detected until he blew his own cover at the San Onofre checkpoint...perhaps dazed, dumbfounded, and overwhelmed with the realization that his secret was unraveling and it was much more likely that he would be caught. Someone who leaves their illegal instruments of death in the back seat while driving through a known security noose is not the most experienced tool in the shed. We already know CM isn't a professional. My guess is that he is somebody else's messenger--and that "somebody" wanted to do this job on the cheap with a person they hope is loyal enough to not rat them out. (I'm sure the consequences of doing that are abundantly clear to CM. Rest assured, it's gonna hurt.)
Unless CM was involved in some direct manner with these three victims (and that isn't apparent in the evidence that we have so far), he probably was carrying out someone else's orders. He was skillful enough to pull the trigger, but he may not have had the cold, steely mindset that was polished enough to deal with the emotional aftermath of these murders. His unusual, bizarre demeanor (and his guns) exposed himself enough to be caught.
What was it about this man's appearance (and afterward, his behavior) that kept the border patrol from just waving him on through? It was obviously very suspicious--and very concerning--and far more revealing than he ever should have let on to a law enforcement officer to avoid standing out from the rest of the I-5 crowd.
Unfortunately for him, though, he couldn't help himself.
He looks profoundly depressed and exhausted to me. It's not difficult to understand why he would be both. He may have some prescription meds on board that are blunting his reactions and making him sluggish as well. His dosage may not be well tuned up just yet.
Clinically depressed people don't give a damn what they look like. He may be sleeping all day but can't sleep at night. Just him and his thoughts. No hope of freedom, nothing to live for. No tough veneer to ride out the consequences.
This kid looks soft to me--just an opinion, of course. Maybe he did have a little fantasy of being a big shot for somebody else's bidding. Now his life is over, he knows it, and he has all the time in the world to think about it--including how delightful a lifetime in prison will be with only a little taste of incarceration under his belt.
The Twin Towers have crashed down upon this guy--not that anyone is weeping for him, necessarily.
If I was in his shoes, I would be just as disconnected from the world as he is.
I couldn't cope well having murdered three people followed by a lifetime of confinement either. He looks no better prepared for what he did than I would be.
He should have chosen his "profession" more wisely. He's not cut out for it. (Just look at all of the tracks he left behind for LE.)
Thank you again for joining us! Based on what has been made public and the appearance and attitude of CM I think there is a lot more to be discovered about him and the possible motive.
:tyou:
Curious Me
Who When Where What Why & How
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2009
- Messages
- 27,595
- Reaction score
- 114,923
In my opinion, this is a key question and sort of a clue that things were somehow risky for Gianni that night.
Apparently, Ilona didn't call any family like cousins, aunts and uncles, co-workers, or friends of Gianni to see if he was there. She might have thought his car broke down, or his cell phone battery died, but those reasons don't warrant calls that indicate she had some idea he was doing something that might put him in some kind of danger. It's possible she knew he had been threatened by someone she could name. JMO. You're right, Sal didn't seem able to soothe her worries.
They could have drove towards home to see if his car broke down, or even gone for coffee nearby and kept making phone calls, but they didn't leave that parking lot, as far we know. What do you make of this?
BBM
geevee
Well-Known Stickie
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2013
- Messages
- 17,621
- Reaction score
- 16,576
A thought just occurred so I checked my notes detailing the phone call info - I'm sure they exist but it doesn't look like the warrants for Sal and Ilona's phone numbers were released, neither are included that I noticed in the warrants and who belonged to which number. "Someone" calling Sal saying Gianni was in trouble could set off a panic, making Ilona call hospitals and emergency rooms, no? We know the numbers called from the 'Events' (as well as the number calling) but not who belongs to any of those numbers.
Maybe it's too late to be puzzling this, probably a crazy thought.
Maybe it's too late to be puzzling this, probably a crazy thought.
I think she was worried because Gianni had never been late in picking her up and he wasn't answering his cell phone. I think she didn't want to leave the parking lot because she thought Gianni still was going to show up late, perhaps with drugs. Because he was a heroin user, I think it makes perfect sense that she was calling the jail to see if he was arrested, and hospitals to see if he had overdosed or gotten into a car crash. Also, perhaps she knew Gianni had purchased heroin earlier that night.
That 50 minutes of waiting in the parking lot may also have been the time frame when the killer moved Gianni's vehicle. But where?
geevee
Well-Known Stickie
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2013
- Messages
- 17,621
- Reaction score
- 16,576
It just dawned on me that someone was with CM, he was seen getting in the passenger door of a waiting car, likely one of the people CM called during the Events (burner phone or does LE know who that was now?) - if another call was to Sal, would CM think taking his phone would be enough to keep LE from connecting him to the killings?
TV - whoever was with CM would have had to follow wherever he drove G's car to, so he could take CM back to the parking lot to kill Ilona and Sal, right? That would leave no one to watch and make sure they were staying in the lot.
TV - whoever was with CM would have had to follow wherever he drove G's car to, so he could take CM back to the parking lot to kill Ilona and Sal, right? That would leave no one to watch and make sure they were staying in the lot.
Curious Me
Who When Where What Why & How
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2009
- Messages
- 27,595
- Reaction score
- 114,923
Wait, what time was Gianni's car seen going westbound? I thought it was soon after SB and IF were shot.
Oh dear, details are slipping from my memory.
BTW, we were talking about benzodiazepines (benzos like Xanax, Ativan, and some of the sleeping pills), and now they are looking into if they might cause a greater risk of Alzheimer's.
http://news.yahoo.com/chronic-common-sedative-linked-alzheimers-risk-234653544.html
Oh dear, details are slipping from my memory.
BTW, we were talking about benzodiazepines (benzos like Xanax, Ativan, and some of the sleeping pills), and now they are looking into if they might cause a greater risk of Alzheimer's.
http://news.yahoo.com/chronic-common-sedative-linked-alzheimers-risk-234653544.html