CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

[human]

That's just not correct. A 7-8 year-old learning a new language typically can acquire fluency. This is not at all true of adults. All you have to do is listen to the accents of adult 2nd language speakers (usually betraying their native tongues); young language learners can get the accent as though native-born. Also, children have different routes for learning language skills than adults.

My comments here come from personal and professional experience. I have taught in many classrooms with multilingual students, learned 4 languages before the age of 12 (2 in school, 2 immersion), 2 more as an older teen, and 1 more very difficult attempt in full adulthood. The learning process of a child learning a language is light years different from an adult's. Try it?

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The lengthy topic ^^^^^ on language, might benefit from comparing the differences between British (and other countries') children—who might be taught 1-2 languages as a child and 1-4 languages as a teenager—and their general facility with language in general (word play is a national quirk) vs the end result from the delayed foreign language teaching in most American schools. Most Americans, in my experience, really stumble with foreign language mastery.

Also check out the studies done with underperforming elementary children in a special program to learn Latin in Philadelphia (IIRC) public schools. The program dramatically improved their overall school performance.

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Related to a topic that was touched on ^^^^^^^, I have never encountered an "immersion" school in the US that doesn't conduct classes in English. Parents fear, evidently, that kids can't master subjects like math and writing if they are taught in a foreign language. This is not "immersion".

Evidently that parental concern doesn't apply to, e.g. Latino parents and their children.

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Thanks for that info. I learned English at school in Kindergarten. My. father spoke seven languages. Here where I live we are trying to learn the language but we are old. I meet people from all over the world who speak several languages.

What an incredible handicap it is in this world to know only English. I teach my neighbors, some who had no English since middle school and now they are in their 30’s. It is incredible how much they know and how complicated their language expression and comprehension is. The gift of multiple languages for
a child is a gift indeed.

I live in a country where the culture was taken away as well as the language, it is being revitalized but the toll it has taken can be seen. Not providing the child’s background is abusive as far as I am concerned. It is telling a child his roots are not worthy of veing celebrated and explored.

 

[digitaldevolution]

It was pretty clear to me that PinkPrincessPoop wasn't trying to say that was a statistical number, she was imparting an anecdote based on personal experience using colloquial language ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

I doubt it's even possible to get statistics on homeschoolers who are "good" vs "bad" at what they do, given there are probably a lot that are off the grid and off the books, depending on jurisdiction. Anecdotes is probably all there is to go off when speaking generally.

I imagine that the people questioning her must be home-schooling parents themselves, feeling personally attacked. However, it's worth remembering (IMO) that no one knows more about a family's real situation at home than they do, and (especially after THIS story) I wouldn't assume that anyone I've ever met was or wasn't abusive, based on our limited interactions. The only people I have ever known that well were my own parents. Adults do tend to believe other adults (which I believe is part of what got the Hart children where they ended up.)

 

[Whiteorchids]

Here’s another story about the photographer and the famous photo of Devante

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/11/ferguson_photographer_hug_port.html

Portland photographer behind viral Ferguson rally 'hug photo' knew 'this kid was special'

Clipped

Q: Did you talk to Devonte?

A: Yes.

I asked him his name. I asked, "Do you know what's going on?"

He said, "A protest."

I asked him if he knew why it's going on. He said "Yes."

I asked him if he thought it was good or bad. He didn't say anything.

He kept crying, so I gave him a hug.

His mom was standing behind him and said, "Devonte just has a really big heart."

At that point, I could tell this kid was special. He does have a huge heart. But I took a step back and walked down the sidewalk about 10 feet to give him a little space.

I started taking pictures of other protestors along the street. But my gut kept telling me to stay there for a little while. The next time I looked over (at Hart), Sgt. Barnum was talking to him. I was in the zone, so I didn't really hear their conversation. I think they were saying something about school. There were a lot of small questions. They got closer. They went in for the hug. I took seven pictures. By the third one, I knew had something.

(Read about Sgt. Barnum's conversation with the boy.)

Q: So you have this amazing photo. How did it wind up on OregonLive?

A: It was two days later. I was just going to put it up on Instagram. But I decided I wanted more of the world to see it, so I walked into The Oregonian to see if they were interested. (The Orgeonian paid Nguyen for the right to publish the photo.)

Q: Have you talked to Devonte or his family since the photo has gone viral?

A: No, but I plan on speaking to them. I'll try to get in touch with them once things die down.

Q: How did you get into photography?

A: I've been into it since I was a kid. But I've really only been taking pictures seriously for three or four years. I love the fact that you have this tool in your hands and that you can record history in a way that's present and now, but also tells a story in 100 years. I like using a tool that can evoke something, that has some sort of impact, in a way that can't be done without a picture.

Q: You're studying at PCC. What do you want to do for a living? Actually, let me rephrase that: What did you want to do before yesterday?

A: (Laughter.) Something in art. A business, taking pictures. My dream's always been a photography business.

Q: Well, this photo is a good start. Why do you think the image has resonated in a big way – in a giant way – with so many people?

A: In the midst of all the photos depicting Ferguson and the riots and the protests (prompted by a grand-jury decision to not indict Officer Darren Wilson, 28, for fatally shooting unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown), the images have depicted violence, anguish and anger. But this one showed humanity, hope and positivity. I think, deep down, that's how every human being wants it to be. That's what people want to see. It's a reflection of where want to go. The photo shows there is humanity left -- there is hope.

 

[fridaybaker]

Here is a link to an interview the photographer gave about the photo he took of Devante with the policeman. It made me cry.

https://kollaboration.org/3515/inte...nguyen-on-his-viral-ferguson-rally-hug-photo/

I find this strange. Devonte was crying before the hug with the officer? Huh? There are a couple of other photos showing the interaction with the officer -one where it looks like they're shaking hands. There's nary a tear to be seen there, though. So, either Devonte turns from literally bawling to absolutely no trace of it, or the hand shake was before the hug, which was my initial thought on seeing it.

The problem there, though, is this: HE SURE CRIES A LOT. So, he's crying 10 minutes before the hug scene (according to the photographer), then again, 10 minutes later, during the hug. Again, it just doesn't seem right that the photo of the hand-shake would be after the crying --not the slightest trace of a tear. So, it must be before. Odd -crying. Stops crying. Crying again 10 minutes later. Really, really, crying.

Than, the crying in various videos at festivals, etc. Why do I think we're being conned here? Everything about what we see in the way of photos and videos is starting to look and feel very, very staged. (When the friend made a complaint about potential abuse, the response from the police/cps was that they thought the children had been "coached".) I'm starting to think just about everything in life for these children was coached. Including the crying. The laughing. The smiles. Everything.

 

[human]

Here is a link to an interview the photographer gave about the photo he took of Devante with the policeman. It made me cry.

https://kollaboration.org/3515/inte...nguyen-on-his-viral-ferguson-rally-hug-photo/

Hm. No death threats. Only positive. But Jen gets death threats.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Hm. No death threats. Only positive. But Jen gets death threats.

Read the other one I just posted. Heartbreaking he talked to Devante.

 

[digitaldevolution]

...again, 10 minutes later, during the hug. Again, it just doesn't seem right that the photo of the hand-shake would be after the crying --not the slightest trace of a tear. So, it must be before. Odd -crying. Stops crying. Crying again 10 minutes later...

Start a timer and see how long 10 minute is - certainly enough for a crying jag to end and start again, probably even more than once. IDK, I don't see it that way.

 

[fridaybaker]

It was pretty clear to me that PinkPrincessPoop wasn't trying to say that was a statistical number, she was imparting an anecdote based on personal experience using colloquial language ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

I doubt it's even possible to get statistics on homeschoolers who are "good" vs "bad" at what they do, given there are probably a lot that are off the grid and off the books, depending on jurisdiction. Anecdotes is probably all there is to go off when speaking generally.

Well, I guess I'll just share my experience, then, in that for every 200+ homeschoolers I've known, none have been "bad". Of course, since there are literally thousands across the world, there will be some. A minuscule number, percentage-wise, is what I glean.

 

[human]

I am windering about the logistics of the tragedy night.

It appears they may not have been camping.

When one goes on that drive , I assume it is for the incredible scenery.

So what is said that night to get them to go on the drive and take Benedryl. I know we don’t know that it is Benedryl, but for ease of talking about it I will go with thaf.

It does not seem like a drive you would like to take at night. What does she tell Sarah in order for her to take a lot of Benedryl?

They are used to campling, but it appears they may have not taken any tents, sleeping bags, and whatever else they may need,

What is the story they had going for where they were going? What did Sarah think?

Did they think they would find a new place to live? Did they visit with people who they thought would take them in?

I am wondering about that whole nighttime scene.

 

[human]

Read the other one I just posted. Heartbreaking he talked to Devante.

I read them both. What I am referrring to is that Jen said that they had to move because they got death threats alter the photo was released. Yet the pnotographer says it was nothng but positive for him.

 

[fridaybaker]

Start a timer and see how long 10 minute is - certainly enough for a crying jag to end and start again, probably even more than once. IDK, I don't see it that way.

I know what you're saying. However, doesn't he seem to cry a lot? Why was he crying before the police officer interaction? It's not like he was 5. He was 12 years old. All the crying just seems odd to me.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I read them both. What I am referrring to is that Jen said that they had to move because they got death threats alter the photo was released. Yet the pnotographer says it was nothng but positive for him.

I agree I just thought you would find the 2nd article interesting.

 

[mpnola]

Well, I guess I'll just share my experience, then, in that for every 200+ homeschoolers I've known, none have been "bad". Of course, since there are literally thousands across the world, there will be some. A minuscule number, percentage-wise, is what I glean.

Agreed. Sadly, abuse of children is entirely too common. And it has nothing to do with where a child is educated. I went to private, Catholic school all the way through my Masters. Now, as an adult, I am finding out just how many kids were in my class and abused. Schooling didn't change that, at all.

I would definitely say that 2/3 of any population (outside of the criminal population, maybe) would be about impossible to be "bad". If only it was that easy, like all the bad people sign up for the same magazine or something. I can say with 100% certainty that 2/3 of the homeschooling population is not bad. I speak from experience. On many levels.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Whiteorchids]

I am windering about the logistics of the tragedy night.

It appears they may not have been camping.

When one goes on that drive , I assume it is for the incredible scenery.

So what is said that night to get them to go on the drive and take Benedryl. I know we don’t know that it is Benedryl, but for ease of talking about it I will go with thaf.

It does not seem like a drive you would like to take at night. What does she tell Sarah in order for her to take a lot of Benedryl?

They are used to campling, but it appears they may have not taken any tents, sleeping bags, and whatever else they may need,

What is the story they had going for where they were going? What did Sarah think?

Did they think they would find a new place to live? Did they visit with people who they thought would take them in?

I am wondering about that whole nighttime scene.

I don’t know about the Hart’s taking Benadryl but both my sons take it daily for their allergies we live in CA lots of pollen. The Hart family may have taken it regularly before the trip it’s a common over the counter medication. It was reported early on that LE didn’t find any luggage or anything that led them to believe they were going on a trip. They all just loaded up and left.

 

[RickshawFan]

In this picture of Devonte Hart dated the 2013 Portland viral hug incident, you can see Jen Hart to the right of him. She's clearly not slim.

http://newyorkbeacon.com/heres-how-...rtedly-profited-from-adopting-black-children/


If you look up the photographer credited, you can see more public pictures of the protest event, including a photo I find particularly chilling of Devonte looking up at Jen with tears in his eyes. He looks frightened and appears to be receiving instruction. I presume this is just prior to the meeting with the policeman. I am beginning to think that those claiming that Devonte was pushed into a planned photo op are correct. JMO. The picture is displayed in the photographer's public portfolio gallery, but I cannot link it here without written permission.

Devonte looks like he’s pleading for help from the cop in that photo.

 

[human]

I don’t know about the Hart’s taking Benadryl but both my sons take it daily for their allergies we live in CA lots of pollen. The Hart family may have taken it regularly before the trip it’s a common over the counter medication. It was reported early on that LE didn’t find any luggage or anything that led them to believe they were going on a trip. They all just loaded up and left.

So what is the story that is told about them driving at night? Where are they going, do they think? I mean Sarah and the kids.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, he looks terrified! I believe she was telling him he needed to "face his fears" or some nonsense. That photograph makes me so angry.

I read an opinion piece about it and it compared Devonte's very real, justified fear of police officers to being afraid of bears. Being afraid of bears keeps you alive. You don't go hug a bear because you're afraid of it.

Is being afraid of the police a good thing? I think it is an unhealthy thing because it is better for there to be a positive interaction and understanding.

Maybe if his fear of police had not been fostered by his captors, he would have felt comfortable running to them for help, before it was too late. :cry:

 

[digitaldevolution]

I know what you're saying. However, doesn't he seem to cry a lot? Why was he crying before the police officer interaction? It's not like he was 5. He was 12 years old. All the crying just seems odd to me.

Given everything else we've found out, I just assumed it was because Jen and Sarah terrorized the kids into being there - and I wonder if they terrorized the kids about the cops. IIRC, Jen posted about this incident and said that when they heard the crowd from some distance away, they talked to the kids and prepped them about what was going on. "So spontaneous, we really had NO idea..." riiiight... but it's true they probably sprung it on the kids at the last minute. So this little family of black kids, who may have heard a LOT of hurtful things about where they supposedly came from, is asked to go up to a protest about another little black kid who was killed. I figured the tears had a heck of a lot to do with what his moms were feeding him about the situation and the cops in general.

In fact... the cops in MN commented that Jen and Sarah were very hostile to the authorities intervening in their business, and they backed that up by taking their kids out of school and essentially never speaking to another state authority again (at least as far as I heard). I wouldn't be surprised if they told their kids a LOT about how scary the cops are... and how dangerous cops are to black kids like them, in particular. It would sure discourage the kids from reporting their abuse again.

 

[antechinusRAWR]

I know what you're saying. However, doesn't he seem to cry a lot? Why was he crying before the police officer interaction? It's not like he was 5. He was 12 years old. All the crying just seems odd to me.

The photos were taken in 2014 at a solidarity protest for Ferguson.

In 2014 the police shooting of 7 yr old Aiyana Jones was all over the news. 12 yr old Tamir Rice had just been shot dead by a police officer.

Devonte was the same age as Tamir & was attending a BLM protest at a time that police violence against protesters was being widely broadcast via social media & livestreams.

It's not at all surprising that being "encouraged" to approach a police line all by himself would terrify him to the point of trembling & crying uncontrollably.

 

[Jinkasaurus]

Devonte also started crying when he went up and gave a hug to that guy playing guitar in the video. In that case, I'm skeptical that he could be coached to do that (start crying after he begins hugging guitar-playing guy). If he is being abused by his two moms, and doesn't have consistent male role models around, hugging adult men might trigger some deep emotions for him.