CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

[fridaybaker]

Devonte looks like he’s pleading for help from the cop in that photo.

Wow. If you forget the official narrative of the Devonte/officer meeting and read this sentence instead, the photo gives an entirely different impression!

 

[Whiteorchids]

Bbm... Interesting... Jumping off your post Gitana1

What is perhaps revealing is the cross generational / cultural choices.

The video of Devonte dancing in his skivvies, listening to Cat Stevens & Joni Mitchell... Huh? Where is Sly Stone & Jimi Hendrix?

The Hippies, the originals, were, yes known for privileged resistance to Victorianism, nudity in the mud, but really were actually quite the amalgamation. Look at the original Woodstock lineup and one can see the breadth of that movement. The astonishing discoveries and gifts that were voiced and shared is really unmatched. -IMO.

Why? Because original movements, good or bad, take in much history proceeding them, like a starburst. Historically, I think the 60's was decades in the making.

We witnessed many, many groups, peoples, causes, cultures come together in what I can only describe as a renaissance of art, music, culture, resistance, and a moon landing.

The west coast, SF, LA, was in so many ways the original image of this hippie movement... Flower power. But the whole country was its soul in an expansion that was like riding a tiger. It's defining force was age, youth had the power and original expression.

The new age festivals now, of the west in particular, to me feel nostalgic. Its peace, love, earth, togetherness, hugs, acceptance, is reminiscent of a time of discovery. And it was the choice expression of J&S, their values, their feeling of acceptance as (I think) a couple. It was about them. It is why we see their "tribe" there, and not at a festival in say, Austin, or even deeper, New Orleans, or Chicago.

The PNW gave us Kurt Cobain. It took me a long time to warm up to him, but I think he was a genius in describing raw soul. And in the videos I've seen of these groups there is perhaps that nostalgia, too?

One of the finest messages of the peace, love movement is the wide angle lens view of the love of planet earth, this celestial being recognized as a gift. Peace, not war. But, in its diluted form, there is subliminal exclusion in its community of predominantly one race posing as a voice for all tribes...

This is the filter that these six children were raised. I am struck by the image of Devonte, Jeremiah, and Abigail laying in the grass, with the books. The politics. The effect of current events. And what was up with Hannah accusing her moms of racism when she jumped out of a window and ran to the neighbors, as was published by many news outlets...
http://katu.com/news/local/neighbor...d-begged-for-food-sarah-jennifer-hart-devonte

I would venture to say that many worlds were colliding when Jen drove off that cliff.

I also grew up in LA in that era. First thing that comes to my mind was flower power, people strung out on LSD, the communes, tie dye, cults and who can forget Charles Manson and his followers. We did have some great music in that era!

 

[Breezie]

Wow. If you forget the official narrative of the Devonte/officer meeting and read this sentence instead, the photo gives an entirely different impression!

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...sf/2018/04/devonte_hart_was_a_crying_kid.html

New article about this photo

From this article:

[FONT=&quot]It was so easy when we saw the picture of Devonte crying to ascribe a meaning to it that bolstered whatever narrative we chose. We projected what we wanted onto that image, instead of asking ourselves, on a human level, why this kid was holding onto this officer. Why was he really crying?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Devonte is now likely dead. We won't get another chance to ask him why he was crying, why he was crying at other times when he was filmed with tears streaming down his face.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All of us who felt moved by that photo must take some responsibility for making Devonte a prop in whatever story we were telling ourselves. He was a child and he was crying. We should have tried to figure out why. [/FONT]

 

[fridaybaker]

12 year boys can't cry?! It's not odd.


MOO*

Sleuth, I certainly didn't say "12 year old boys can't cry". I also didn't say it's "odd". I simply posed the question "doesn't he seem to cry a lot"? In my original post, I mentioned that he had been, apparently, crying twice in a about a 10-minute period, and that he was photographed in several other places/times crying. It just makes me wonder, that's all.

 

[SarahW]

Credibitlity, schmedibility. Or Jen the Queen of BS.

Creating a narrative for the world on SM.

Remember the story that recently came to light about Jen and the kids being in a rollover accident the after Christmas while traveling to see Sarah in Oregon?

"On at least one occasion, Jennifer Hart spoke of the problems she dealt with in Alexandria with total strangers.

"She shared the struggles of living there," said Brian Lee, who lives in Garrison, North Dakota.

Lee and his wife met Jennifer Hart and all six kids the day after Christmas in 2012 while driving through Montana. Jennifer and the children had just been in a roll-over accident in their GMC Yukon along an icy stretch near Missoula.

Lee learned the Harts, whom they met in a gas station, were heading to Oregon to see Sarah, who had recently moved here to look for work.

He and his wife rented a trailer and gave the family a ride to Spokane. Jennifer Hart spoke for nearly the entire three-hour drive, he said.

"She said they needed a fresh, new start," Lee told The Oregonian/OregonLive." source: https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...ons-missed-signals-preceded-deaths/499212002/

Well, this got me to thinking, with some other posting I had seen from both Sarah and Jen. The dates just don't jive.

<modsnip>

Jen posted on her FB page on Jan 1, 2013 telling her story of this event. According to her post, she left MN on December 22 and the rollover happened on December 23. But Sarah had already posted screenshots of the kids on the beach in Oregon days before. Oopsie.

Something tells me Brian and Sarah Lee are fictitious friends of the Harts.

Tryng to get screenshots of Jen's Xmas miracle to post.

or the dates are mixed up... Jen could also have switched up dates for effect. I wonder if the VIN of the van has been made public in accident reports. If it has, a car fax would show any serious accident or repairs. I think it's possible Jen exaggerated the accident.

 

[Sleuth99]

Sleuth, I certainly didn't say "12 year old boys can't cry". I also didn't say it's "odd". I simply posed the question "doesn't he seem to cry a lot"? In my original post, I mentioned that he had been, apparently, crying twice in a about a 10-minute period, and that he was photographed in several other places/times crying. It just makes me wonder, that's all.

12 year old boys can't cry a lot?!** There... I fixed my *question* for you. I never said you said that. I inferred and asked to see if we were on the same accord. I think we can explore the barometer (if there should even be one) of the number of instances a preteen cries which is or is not alarming. I am wondering too. In fact a lot of these things are making me wonder and this thread is filled with so many comments of wonder. I think it speaks to the lack of subjectivity and proper representation young people have. Many of us just don't know and when tragedies arise we are left wondering.


MOO*

 

[Zelda1010]

or the dates are mixed up... Jen could also have switched up dates for effect. I wonder if the VIN of the van has been made public in accident reports. If it has, a car fax would show any serious accident or repairs. I think it's possible Jen exaggerated the accident.

Someone sleuthed out accident reports and reminded us that icey conditions could lead to a fairly minor accident, even if the vehicle did tip over onto it's side.

It reminded me that people who live in these conditions will whip donuts and slide around for fun, but it is scary if you aren't in control of your vehicle. I think Jen probably made a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[LeighB]

12 year old boys can't cry a lot?!** There... I fixed my *question* for you. I never said you said that. I inferred and asked to see if we were on the same accord. I think we can explore the barometer (if there should even be one) of the number of instances a preteen cries which is or is not alarming. I am wondering too. In fact a lot of these things are making me wonder and this thread is filled with so many comments of wonder. I think it speaks to the lack of subjectivity and proper representation young people have. Many of us just don't know and when tragedies arise we are left wondering.

I have 3 sons in the 11-16 age range. They cried a lot before they were 8. By 12, they cry only when they're really mad they're not getting their way, or really, really, really sad. They have never cried in a public crowd. My sons are homeschooled and never told they shouldn't cry b/c they're boys or any such nonsense.

My teen daughter is (like me) more likely to get emotional (without wanting to) in a situation where we're strongly protesting injustice. I really see nothing unusual about Devonte crying at the protest. Crying at the concert is a bit more concerning. Are there other instances? Did this happen a lot?

But how much is this even relevant? We know all 6 kids were grossly under-sized, we know some were bruised widely, and we know they were driven off a cliff by someone purporting to love them. That's quite enough to know Devonte had a reason to cry everywhere he went, whether he actually did or not.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I can only speak for myself but I take Zyrtec for seasonal allergies and Benedryl for my mast cell activation disorder. (Basically, my body can look at any substance at any random point in time and decide that it's allergic to it.) I am meant to take Hydroxyzine 3 times a day for the MCAD, but I sometimes substiute Benedryl for it because Benedryl makes me less drowsy. I know that sounds weird since a lot of people use it for the sedation effect, but if you use it regularly at a high dosage, your body gets used to it eventually. It no longer puts me to sleep. Benedryl is usually a better fit for allergic reactions that have happened, while Claritin or Zyrtec can be more helpful in keeping those reactions from happening in the first place. Both can act as drying agents so if you have a runny nose or drainage it can help dry them out. People's bodies all respond differently to different things, however. That might be the short answer.

As relates to this case as to benadryl/car sickness and Zyrtec...

I too take Zyrtec to prevent severe alleric reactions, but alas and alack, last week I had a major planting at my yard (there is a daily allergy/pollen email anyone can sign up for in the US to know when your trigger pollens are high that I get, so I knew to take prior to my project) when there is pollen season.

A week ago, after I had been taking Zyrtec for a week, my face turned sunburn red overnight, and my eyes were swollen shut right before a road trip.

I started taking benadryl to help. I then this past week took a trip to an area which was in "blooming spring season". And since I have motion sickness ALWAYS on road trips, I was taking Zyrtec, benadryl, and bonine for motion sickness.

And after this trip I come here and learned so much!

I had no idea that benadryl is active against motion sickness! I had no idea this it also was a sleep aid!

That said, I zonked out while others drove.....I was asleep most of the trip. I chose bonine vs. dramamine as it never makes me sleepy, as I had no idea that benadryl makes folks sleepy.

I learned so much, as that benadryl is a sleep aid/antinasea at the same time.

:tyou: :websleuther:

 

[goldenbear]

There is no news from the sheriff department today on the Hart family. They did recover the majority of the family from the eel river.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I have 3 sons in the 11-16 age range. They cried a lot before they were 8. By 12, they cry only when they're really mad they're not getting their way, or really, really, really sad. They have never cried in a public crowd. My sons are homeschooled and never told they shouldn't cry b/c they're boys or any such nonsense.

My teen daughter is (like me) more likely to get emotional (without wanting to) in a situation where we're strongly protesting injustice. I really see nothing unusual about Devonte crying at the protest. Crying at the concert is a bit more concerning. Are there other instances? Did this happen a lot?

But how much is this even relevant? We know all 6 kids were grossly under-sized, we know some were bruised widely, and we know they were driven off a cliff by someone purporting to love them. That's quite enough to know Devonte had a reason to cry everywhere he went, whether he actually did or not.

Bbm... Isn't at the truth!

What is so, so tragic, is not understanding the PR of Devonte's image... Was he crying for justice, or was he crying for help?

 

[human]

Well, I guess I'll just share my experience, then, in that for every 200+ homeschoolers I've known, none have been "bad". Of course, since there are literally thousands across the world, there will be some. A minuscule number, percentage-wise, is what I glean.

I think the point is that no one knows if anyone is good or bad. Look at how surprised people are that their lovely neighbor is a serial killer

 

[human]

I think they just drove up the coast so they wouldn’t have to face CPS when they came back. Go on the run until they decide what they were going to do next. Personally I don’t think it was planned I think once all of them asleep Jen got out her bottle of booze under the seat or in her purse while driving thought about it and in her drunken stupor not thinking clearly drove off the cliff. I’m hoping the kids never felt any pain. I think it’s possible they might not have died immediately. Which sickens me to think they could have suffered. I’m hoping the ones that got ejected into the water didn’t drown. Those Yukon’s are well built vehicles made for made for mountain driving and rollovers I just don’t know if they suffered. I hope they didn’t. [emoji53]

No one had seat belts on. Even Sarah. This is a puzzle to me. Why did they get into the car on that crazy road with no seatbelts? Especially Sarah

 

[fridaybaker]

I have 3 sons in the 11-16 age range. They cried a lot before they were 8. By 12, they cry only when they're really mad they're not getting their way, or really, really, really sad. They have never cried in a public crowd. My sons are homeschooled and never told they shouldn't cry b/c they're boys or any such nonsense.

My teen daughter is (like me) more likely to get emotional (without wanting to) in a situation where we're strongly protesting injustice. I really see nothing unusual about Devonte crying at the protest. Crying at the concert is a bit more concerning. Are there other instances? Did this happen a lot?

But how much is this even relevant? We know all 6 kids were grossly under-sized, we know some were bruised widely, and we know they were driven off a cliff by someone purporting to love them. That's quite enough to know Devonte had a reason to cry everywhere he went, whether he actually did or not.

LeighB, I agree. I've pondered the crying (as well as the fact that they're either laughing, smiling, or crying in all photos -which certainly indicates staging, but anything else?). I think it's out of the ordinary for a 12 year old boy to cry a lot, but his was anything but an ordinary situation. I think I've read that he was quite abused (or was that Jeremiah?) before being adopted by these two. At any rate, there is much that seems abusive of his life with J and S. (Just the posting of photos in underwear seems abusive to me. Really? Child sexual abuse is a huge problem, and exposing children online like this would be out of the question to me.)

So, again, was the crying simply that he had had such a horrific life and all the trauma that came with that, or was it more "staging-inspired"? That's one of the things I wonder about.

 

[fridaybaker]

I think the point is that no one knows if anyone is good or bad. Look at how surprised people are that their lovely neighbor is a serial killer

Boy, isn't this the truth? I guess it's wise to always be somewhat circumspect about people and situations!

 

[NicoleH]

No one had seat belts on. Even Sarah. This is a puzzle to me. Why did they get into the car on that crazy road with no seatbelts? Especially Sarah

I believe they stopped there to rest/sleep, and took off their seatbelts to get comfy. Jen drank some alcohol, and went over once everyone was asleep. I dont think they went over as soon as they got there and I imagine they had their seatbelts on prior to stopping. IMO.

 

[LeighB]

No one had seat belts on. Even Sarah. This is a puzzle to me. Why did they get into the car on that crazy road with no seatbelts? Especially Sarah

This seems obvious to me: they were stopped for the night and asleep.

I think they pulled over to sleep for the night. Took the belts off. Went to sleep. Then drunk Jen drove them off the cliff.

 

[LeighB]

I think I've read that he was quite abused (or was that Jeremiah?) before being adopted by these two.

Does this all come from the one article in New Zealand? I've read about that article, but don't know anything about it. Why was someone in NZ writing an article about a random kid from a rough family in the US? When was it written? Who gave the info (bio family, CPS, Harts)? Is there another source about the stories of abuse and getting shot at other than that one, or do all the reports get their info from that one article?

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I thought LE said they had only been stopped for 5-ish minutes before accelerating over the edge? I had been wondering how much info the black box contained, like how much farther back in time there was data for. Am I remembering this wrong?

If I'm correct, then either Jen had been driving drunk, or perhaps the two women swapped seats during that 5 minute pause... (but since Sarah was also impaired with Benadryl...)

 

[Kajol85]

"It's much more likely that Devonte's tears came from being hugged by someone in authority who could give a great bear hug, with no obligation. Tears like that can easily come from being held"

Likely his tears were from being so close to help, yet so far away! He had to go home with those abusive witches!

I am really flummoxed at all the the attempt to explain away these two women and the sympathy and empathy some seemingly feel for them. It's like two semi attractive white women, and so many excuses/explanations are made.