ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[HeidiTX232]

Does anyone know if the aunt and other birth relatives that loved them before they were removed could claim them and bring them home to rest with the love and respect that they did not have from the adoptive family? It sounds like neither Jen or Sarah had family that were close to the children.

Legally, the aunt, bioparents, etc are no more related to these children than you or I are. Obviously, I assume they could make an exception; but typically, these people would have no rights as those were lost with the termination of parental rights.

{Right or wrong. Part of the reason we have ongoing contact with bio family is because I believe 1) children cannot have to many people loving them and 2) family isn’t no longer family simply because they couldn’t raise the children and 3) family shouldn’t lose out because some family members made poor choices, had substance issues, etc.}

 

[Breamworthy]

Hannah may have fallen, but the tooth that Jen posted, was clearly extracted, not chipped, root and all. Presumably, same with the other tooth. Hannah was probably so terrorized by the extractions that she never wanted anyone to mess with her teeth again. The teeth may have loosened....and the post indicated that she either was at the dentist, or had been to a dentist.....which may or may not be true. My guess is that there was never a dentist. And if she had been running and fell on her face, she likely needed stitches to her upper lip. I think that the teeth were yanked out of anger and that no dentist or doctor was ever consulted. JMO

I don't know that it's worth re-posting all the links now, but this was discussed for several pages a while back, and there was consensus from dentists and other dental professionals that teeth do come out in that exact way as the result of certain kinds of impacts. I believe it was called "dental avulsion".

 

[katydid23]

Beyond sad.

This meant that the kids were in the care of family members, removed from the bad situation, yet were still put out for adoption.

Yes, but it is sometimes necessary, even if the children are with family, to place them in new homes, because of the scope of the earlier abuse.

If the abuse had been severe and significant--- the drug usage during pregnancy, and then drugs while kids were in the home, and the neglect, and the weapons allegedly pointed at them---where was the family protection at this time?

And most importantly, is the family too close and interdependent to protect the children from the abusive parents, after they have been moved. If you give the young children to an aunt or a grandmother, what's to keep mom or dad from coming over at will, even taking the kids back for a time?

We have seen that happen here in very tragic cases. How many AMBER alerts involve non-custodial parents rolling up to grandmas and taking the babies?

It is kind of a LOSE/LOSE situation for CPS. It's bad if you take the kids from family and it is bad if you don't.

 

[Breezie]

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/hart_children_should_be_remove.html

This article provides more info on the removal of the siblings from their aunt and her appeals process.

 

[katydid23]

I don't know that it's worth re-posting all the links now, but this was discussed for several pages a while back, and there was consensus from dentists and other dental professionals that teeth do come out in that exact way as the result of certain kinds of impacts. I believe it was called "dental avulsion".

Right, from certain kinds of impacts.

But how often does it happen from a young child running down their hallway? It seems like a pretty severe injury from such a common place incident.

 

[Quill]

If they were adopted through foster care they should have had medicaid till they were adults. Medicaid does provide dental care. But not very good care. IE they will pay for a tooth to pulled in an adult rather than pay for a root canal to save the tooth. Children get better care. But you need documentation of serious issues to get treatment other than the basics.

However if one of my children was missing their front teeth we'd find a way to pay for it! Implants can cost thousands but dentists offer help. And they had money from the state to help the kids. I still think it's so weird they'd not fix her teeth and expect anyone to believe a teenager didn't "care" if she had front teeth or not. :/

I agree with you and I will add that in a case like this, some sort of partial is necessary to "hold the space" of the teeth. Left alone without a space holder, the other teeth will shift. I personally know a 25 year old that lost his permanent front teeth in an accident as a kid. He wore a partial all through his teens and early 20's and then got implants.

Even if they were saving up to pay for more extensive dental work, a dentist surely would have informed them that it would be much more complicated with a partial.

 

[SATA]

True. But that's only in hindsight. They weren't murderers before. The risk of someone who is a known drug user who neglects or abuses their kids is considered a greater risk than an unknown factor who passes the states hoops.

If they'd been allowed to stay with drug using parents we might have yet another thread where people are ranting about how horrible CPS is because they allowed the kids to stay with a known drug user. I think it's ludicrous to hold it against CPS that they removed kids from a parent who was using cocaine while pregnant.

The children needed a good, healthy, stable home. Unfortunately neither their biological parents or adoptive parents provided it. :/

No, but convicted child abuser.

 

[Whiteorchids]

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/hart_children_should_be_remove.html

This article provides more info on the aunt’s appeals process.

That’s really sad the Aunt messed up. That one mistake going against the orders by taking her to her Mom jeopardized the kids too. All it takes is one mistake look what happened in the Bella Bond case her Mom Rochelle Bond and BF Micheal McCarthy being crack addicts killed that sweet baby girl.

 

[digitaldevolution]

I didn't know her personally but she was part of my "world" and we have around 15 FB friends in common. The chatter amongst my friends has been that she was always friendly to everyone, had a good sense of humor, and was very supportive-the first person to reach out if someone was going through hard times. Those who met the children have described them as happy, friendly, and "loving." I don't know anyone defending the mothers, but most people I know appear to be shocked as the news unfolds.

I have two thoughts : first, that I believe Jen probably did reach out to people in need. People who are struggling themselves often have a lot of love and empathy for others' struggles. And sometimes I think it's a cry for help. "I see you - will you see me, too?"

Second: unfortunately, this is a lot like the shock and dismay that would go through any church or group of spiritual people. But ultimately, no matter how well they played their roles (and I'm sure they did enjoy it to a large extent), what people at Beloved/etc saw was a family of kids being forced to act like their parents' favorite artists (Nahko, et al) were also their favorite artists too ("Happy Thanksgiving Nahko!/we are grateful for you!"). I would guess that any family that managed to have six kids even appear to be united in sharing the same hobbies/interests/etc is probably extremely controlling.

 

[SATA]

If they were adopted through foster care they should have had medicaid till they were adults. Medicaid does provide dental care. But not very good care. IE they will pay for a tooth to pulled in an adult rather than pay for a root canal to save the tooth. Children get better care. But you need documentation of serious issues to get treatment other than the basics.

However if one of my children was missing their front teeth we'd find a way to pay for it! Implants can cost thousands but dentists offer help. And they had money from the state to help the kids. I still think it's so weird they'd not fix her teeth and expect anyone to believe a teenager didn't "care" if she had front teeth or not. :/

You can clearly see in all photos that she is very self conscious about her missing teeth, always a closed mouth smile.
Cosmetically it must have been a sore thumb every time she looked in a mirror, but it must also have made it more difficult for her to eat.

 

[Breamworthy]

Right, from certain kinds of impacts.

But how often does it happen from a young child running down their hallway? It seems like a pretty severe injury from such a common place incident.

Oh, I'm by no means saying that's actually how it happened. But the comment I was responding to was that it's not possible for a tooth to come out like that unless it was extracted, which is definitely false.

I'm becoming concerned about the amount of confirmation bias in many of these posts, hence my response. We should be deciding how we feel about the parents based on the evidence, not deciding what the evidence is based on how we feel about the parents. And yes, it seems certain that they were monsters, and we probably only know the very tip of the iceberg of the horrors that went on in that house. But we still need to be careful about the logical processes we follow when making claims.

 

[liltexans]

This thread is closed for review and cleanup. The moderators are very busy at the moment, but a new thread will be started later this evening.

In the interim, I suggest some of you review the TOS and rules of WS.

Thank you.

 

[liltexans]

Please continue the discussion in Thread #5.