CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1

[UltraViolet4545]

I think these parents got in way over their heads.

When the kids were younger, it was probably easier to manage the household and keep everyone on a schedule. As the children got older and reached teenage years, I think the parents struggled. Because of the previous court case, maybe they were scared to ask for help or let people know they felt overwhelmed. I haven’t heard anything about current doctors and/or psychologists. I would imagine the multiple moves would be stressful and difficult on special needs children. I don’t have kids myself so maybe I’m way off base here, but it just seems like a “stable as possible” environment would be the best for children. Most especially children that have experienced trauma/loss.

I think the spanking conviction is awful. One thing I don’t understand though is why continued parenting help/checking in doesn’t seem to have been part of the follow up? Maybe it was and I just haven’t heard about it. Rather than convict her and then let things continue on their merry way, it would seem logical to have parenting classes/anger management/family therapy/etc be part of the “after” situation.

 

[everybodhi]

I think these parents got in way over their heads.

When the kids were younger, it was probably easier to manage the household and keep everyone on a schedule. As the children got older and reached teenage years, I think the parents struggled. Because of the previous court case, maybe they were scared to ask for help or let people know they felt overwhelmed. I haven’t heard anything about current doctors and/or psychologists. I would imagine the multiple moves would be stressful and difficult on special needs children. I don’t have kids myself so maybe I’m way off base here, but it just seems like a “stable as possible” environment would be the best for children. Most especially children that have experienced trauma/loss.

I think the spanking conviction is awful. One thing I don’t understand though is why continued parenting help/checking in doesn’t seem to have been part of the follow up? Maybe it was and I just haven’t heard about it. Rather than convict her and then let things continue on their merry way, it would seem logical to have parenting classes/anger management/family therapy/etc be part of the “after” situation.

I think those kinds of classes are often part of the sentence but I haven’t seen her court papers.
I think HIPPA prevents their medical information from being given to the public, that cannot be released, by law.
That includes psychiatric.

 

[gitana1]

I absolutely don’t know the situation here but I have been through more than one false CPS claim - I have a son with Aspergers who told the people at school more than once that my husband was abusing him which he is definitely not. My son feels abused when he has his computer taken away from him after he has caused a fit so badly he broke a window....he told school folks he was abused because he hit his foot during a tantrum. So yes stuff like this does happen and after a while it just becomes demeaning. CPS has never found cause against us and they realize the situation we are in. We are to the point where we are on a no investigation status with CPS but yes I've considered just taking him out of school because anytime he's having a bad day or an accident happens (I accidentally tripped over his foot once so he hit me in the face - he doesn't understand accident vs on purpose) - the school will call CPS at the drop of a hat. At some point you're just done with it. So I'm not saying that is the case with this family but it's not always so obvious.

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The differences here:

1. None of the children have been identified as having an intellectual disability to my knowledge.
2. More than one child, years apart, alleged food withholding as a system
of punishment.
3. One of the parents admitted some pretty harsh abuse in the past and was convicted of a crime associated with that abuse.
4. These people began isolating their family after the criminal case.
5. These people are estranged from their own families.
6. These people did not answer the door when CPS came. Instead, one of them rushed home from work and they took off immediately, leaving animals behind and there is nothing indicating they provided for their care during their absence.
8. These people, with that history, drove of a cliff with their children, to their deaths, directly after leaving the house in what seems a rushed fashion in response to the CPS visit.

We can all give personal anecdotes or anecdotes of people we've heard about, that may possible explain away some part of this story. It's the whole picture that's key here.

 

[Breezie]

http://www.koin.com/news/oregon/quicksand-video-features-reluctant-hart-family/1090191811

This video shows the Hart family, in their home environment, at around 1:30 minutes, into the video.

[FONT=&quot]The band wanted to capture the family in their natural element. Price wrote she "had never met a family like this...They did not have TV, they did not use cell phone, they did not have technology in ways like children are glued. Instead their home was filled with books, musical instruments, artistic equipment like paint and crayons and markers and huge construction paper for art projects, their yard was open and a large part of it was a garden."[/FONT]

 

[gitana1]

Hwy hugs the Pacific Ocean heading north and south along the coast. In some stretches there is land, as much say as a large farm area with animals grazing, between the hwy and the ocean. As you go further north into Mendocino County, parts of the hwy are very close to the cliffs directly above the ocean. It’s not the sort of East coast many of us have seen, which usually has little more than sand dunes and then a flat sandy beach which is on the ocean.Some of the Mendocino coast has high dramatic rocky cliffs below which the ocean strikes the base of the cliffs. Some areas have tidal pools which you can climb down to and there are very few areas that have a small beach area. At night there are no streetlights on Hwy 1 and thus it would be critical when driving not to get close to the ocean side of the hwy. It is beautiful by day but never a place for a casual drive. Because one wrong turn or mistake and you literally would fall over the cliffs and depending on the rocks, either fall straight into the ocean or get smashed by rocks on the way down. The only way to be absolutely safe at night would be to follow any road heading east off of Hwy 1 and thus away from the coast. There is no scenario where GPS would direct you to drive off the hwy into the ocean.

How many fatal accidents are there along this stretch of road involving going over the cliff each year? Aren't there guard rails?

 

[Zelda1010]

This article has a good timeline.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/articl...sf/2018/03/hart_family_deadly_crash_a_tim.amp

It names the 6 year old, as AH, who reported in 2010 that mom Jen caused the bruising with a closed fist & dunking her head in a cold bathtub. In 2011 mom Sarah pleads to the abuse (with Jen saying she witnessed the spanking, I read in another article). Something is wrong there.




Also, this article says all the children were biologically related? Is this reported anywhere else?

http://katu.com/news/local/what-we-know-timeline-of-the-hart-family-tragedy
And late Thursday afternoon, KATU learned that all six children were biologically related.

 

[gitana1]

http://www.koin.com/news/oregon/quicksand-video-features-reluctant-hart-family/1090191811

This video shows the Hart family, in their home environment, at around 1:30 minutes, into the video.

I'm just not buying a thing about these people. Much like the Duggar's were able to fool people in their circles about the perfect family they were, these people were doing the same in their circles, IMO.

These people admitted to and were convicted of child abuse. Their panicked children were asking for help. I think they knew how to present a certain image and their children were props. Look how progressive and socially conscious we are! An LGBTQ family rescuing all these poor black kids and parading them around to various protests!

I don't like any of it. It smells of staging and trying to get credibility in various movements.

There was something very troubling occurring in that household and all their friends would be unlikely to even be aware of any red flags because they meet all the markrers of social justice heroes. They're untouchable. Any criticism of anything regarding them would've likely been jumped on and attacked by their many friends who view them as heroes. I can see that by posts here discussing their staunch defenders who are already rallying despite the clear information pointing to serious dysfunction in that family.

I'm getting some strong narcissistic parent vibes here. I'm betting these kids were no more than props in the fantasy world the parents had created.

 

[Lilibet]

How many fatal accidents are there along this stretch of road involving going over the cliff each year? Aren't there guard rails?

I don’t know how many fatal accidents happen, but no, there are many stretches without guard rails. Earlier in the thread there is a YouTube video someone took driving that stretch before and after the bridge and you can see some sections with guard rails and some without, that need rails IMO. Of course, if you’re going fast enough a guard rail won’t help.

 

[Stunned]

BBM. I completely agree with this. Especially the first sentence, and as my long post rambles about, I think that inflexible and rigid belief systems are not limited only to fundamentalist/ extremist religious people, or religious patriarchies.

I think these women had inflexible and rigid belief systems that were not based on religion, but on social activism and political beliefs. That doesn't make them "bad" parents in and of itself--but it is how much those beliefs influence parenting and lifestyle decisions that make the beliefs worrisome. IMO, they believed that their kids came first, but their actions belie that, and demonstrate that the women's need to express and indoctrinate the kids with their socio/ political ideology came before the needs of each individual child's emotional and social growth and development.

This family is no different, IMO, than any of the religious child abuse cases we read about. Their socio/ political ideology was their equivalent of extremist or fundamentalist religion, IMO.

This....

 

[Breezie]

https://newsone.com/3786740/devonte-hart-video-surfaces-beloved-festival/

This video of Devonte is beyond bizarre. Everything, Devonte’s costume, his hair, the length of the hug, and the chanting is just creepy. Yuck! Those poor kids!

Xavier summons Devonte onto the stage at around the 8:30 minute mark of the video.

[FONT=&amp]Considering the history of abuse, the video is disturbing. His mother appears to have commented on the video, “I just wanted to take a moment to personally thank you for capturing the video of my son, Devonte, with Xavier at Beloved. I was shooting still photos, so I was hoping that a quality video would arise at some point. This moment is forever etched on our hearts, and most likely anyone who was there to witness this raw human love. Devonte was wearing his ‘Free Hugs’ sign that he travels the country with. He’s hugged thousands, sharing his love for all. There is a long story behind the emotion and why this moment was so special for Devonte. Thank you for enabling everyone to live this moment again through your video.”[/FONT]

 

[Stunned]

I so feel for these folks. They did the right thing, and a terrible thing happened.

Lest anyone see this and think, "Well I'm not going to call on anyone because something really bad might happen to the kid(s)": As a mandated reporter (twice over), I can assure everyone that this situation is quite the exception, not the rule. Many many children (and the elderly and adults with disabilities) continue to be abused or wind up dead because folks are afraid to get involved.

If you see something, say something. If there's smoke but no fire, then the parents and guardians have nothing to fear. If there's smoke AND fire...your call may save a life!

Yes as a mandated reporter we waver between fear and knowing. And then we report and try to sleep while we wait..... and wait.😢

 

[Secrett]

How many fatal accidents are there along this stretch of road involving going over the cliff each year? Aren't there guard rails?

I just happened to read this article right after I read your post:

From

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/03/mystery_only_deepens_of_what_l.html

[FONT=&amp]The SUV was at the bottom of a 100-foot cliff, across a 75-foot dirt turnout, on a straight section of Route 1 just north of the town of Westport. To drive off the cliff, Jennifer Hart would have had to make a hard 90-degree turn from the road, traverse the entire turnout and drive up and over a short berm that sits at the clifftop.[/FONT]

and then says

[FONT=&amp]Investigators with the Mendocino County Sheriff's Office have said they found no skid marks or signs of hard braking in the area of the crash.
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]California Highway Patrol Officer Olegario Marin said roads along the Northern California coast -- winding stretches that often sit hundreds of feet over the ocean -- are dangerous, but he can't remember any crashes at the turnout in question in his nearly six years working the area.[/FONT]

 

[ksprincess]

Has anyone discussed or thought about why if this was a murder suicide that they went that far to do it? There are plenty of places in Washington or even Oregon to drive off of a cliff, or a bridge, or they could have used carbon monoxide on everyone. There are plenty of much closer places that they could have done this at. I'm not saying that's not what happened but if so why drive that far to do it?

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[Stunned]

https://newsone.com/3786740/devonte-hart-video-surfaces-beloved-festival/

This video of Devonte is beyond bizarre. Everything, his costume, his hair, the length of the hug, and the chanting is just creepy. Yuck! Those poor kids!

[FONT=&quot]Considering the history of abuse, the video is disturbing. His mother appears to have commented on the video, “I just wanted to take a moment to personally thank you for capturing the video of my son, Devonte, with Xavier at Beloved. I was shooting still photos, so I was hoping that a quality video would arise at some point. This moment is forever etched on our hearts, and most likely anyone who was there to witness this raw human love. Devonte was wearing his ‘Free Hugs’ sign that he travels the country with. He’s hugged thousands, sharing his love for all. There is a long story behind the emotion and why this moment was so special for Devonte. Thank you for enabling everyone to live this moment again through your video.”[/FONT]

That child is desperate. He is clinging on too Police officer.

 

[Lilibet]

Has anyone discussed or thought about why if this was a murder suicide that they went that far to do it? There are plenty of places in Washington or even Oregon to drive off of a cliff, or a bridge, or they could have used carbon monoxide on everyone. There are plenty of much closer places that they could have done this at. I'm not saying that's not what happened but if so why drive that far to do it?

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I’ve wondered that too. But it could be that the plan developed as they drove and/or they were trying to find a place where they were less likely to be discovered quickly. Had the one person not looked over the edge, we could be discussing this as a missing family case like the McStays.

 

[Stunned]

https://newsone.com/3786740/devonte-hart-video-surfaces-beloved-festival/

This video of Devonte is beyond bizarre. Everything, his costume, his hair, the length of the hug, and the chanting is just creepy. Yuck! Those poor kids!

[FONT="]Considering the history of abuse, the video is disturbing. His mother appears to have commented on the video, “I just wanted to take a moment to personally thank you for capturing the video of my son, Devonte, with Xavier at Beloved. I was shooting still photos, so I was hoping that a quality video would arise at some point. This moment is forever etched on our hearts, and most likely anyone who was there to witness this raw human love. Devonte was wearing his ‘Free Hugs’ sign that he travels the country with. He’s hugged thousands, sharing his love for all. There is a long story behind the emotion and why this moment was so special for Devonte. Thank you for enabling everyone to live this moment again through your video.”[/FONT]

Beyond creepy. The child was the parents billboard. Wait, I get it! My infant/toddler son wore a No Nukes T-shirt in the 80’s. Just kept upping the size. But...he never participated in any rallies at that age.

 

[K_Z]

More bizarre details coming out about the kids in crisis reaching out to the DeKalbs in this couple hour old WaPo article (BBM below):

Sarah and Jennifer Hart and the rest of their children then rushed into DeKalb’s house, looking for Hannah. They found her upstairs, crouched between the bed and the dresser. After Jennifer Hart spoke with Hannah, she came down and apologized to the DeKalbs.

The family came back the next day with an apology letter, and the parents introduced each of the children to their neighbors. DeKalb said he learned Hannah, who he thought was around 7 years old, was a teenager. She was missing her front teeth.

“They had some story about her getting them knocked out and said she didn’t want them fixed,” DeKalb said.

Sarah and Jennifer Hart told the couple that their children were not being abused, and said that Hannah was having a rough week because her cat had just died.

Then, on March 15, Devonte came over to their house and asked for food, claiming his parents weren’t feeding him, DeKalb said. The DeKalbs gave him some tortillas and peanut butter, and he went home. The 15-year-old kept returning, and last Thursday stopped by three times, including at 11:30 p.m. He asked for six packs of tortillas and a case of peanut butter, some cured meats and apples, DeKalb said.

Devonte also asked the couple whether they had called CPS, DeKalb said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...me-life-neighbors-say/?utm_term=.4112217878c5

Now that is *really* stunning. Why would Devonte ask the DeKalbs THAT particular question?

That is hugely, hugely worrisome, IMO.

What were the kids being told about CPS? Because I think that there was some kind of recent conversation about CPS to prompt that kind of comment by Devonte. The last situation involving CPS was in MN, and was remote at that point-- about 6-7 years prior.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...me-life-neighbors-say/?utm_term=.4112217878c5

 

[K_Z]

https://newsone.com/3786740/devonte-hart-video-surfaces-beloved-festival/

This video of Devonte is beyond bizarre. Everything, Devonte’s costume, his hair, the length of the hug, and the chanting is just creepy. Yuck! Those poor kids!

Xavier summons Devonte onto the stage at around the 8:30 minute mark of the video.

[FONT=&]Considering the history of abuse, the video is disturbing. His mother appears to have commented on the video, “I just wanted to take a moment to personally thank you for capturing the video of my son, Devonte, with Xavier at Beloved. I was shooting still photos, so I was hoping that a quality video would arise at some point. This moment is forever etched on our hearts, and most likely anyone who was there to witness this raw human love. Devonte was wearing his ‘Free Hugs’ sign that he travels the country with. He’s hugged thousands, sharing his love for all. There is a long story behind the emotion and why this moment was so special for Devonte. Thank you for enabling everyone to live this moment again through your video.”[/FONT]

That looks for all the world like a textbook example of inappropriate affection/ reactive attachment disorder symptoms, IMO. Big, big red flags. He appears to be about 8-9 years old in this video.

http://www.ocd.pitt.edu/Files/PDF/Foster/27758_ocd_Indiscriminate_Friendliness.pdf

Younger children that suffer from attachment disorder can exhibit a symptom we refer to as indiscriminately affectionate with strangers. They look for acceptance and regard from anyone other than their primary attachment figures. Primary attachment figures are too threatening to children with attachment disorder because of the closeness of those relationships. They often get stiff when their primary attachment figures hug them or they avoid the situation altogether. Instead, the children seek affection from strangers on their terms in which they can control the giving and receiving of affection. As a result, the children receive superficial affection.

https://instituteforattachment.ong/the-case-of-20-hugs-too-many-attachment-disorder-and-affection/

https://www.families.com/the-symptoms-of-reactive-attachment-disorder

 

[Breezie]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...f-cliff-had-troubled-home-life-neighbors-say/

From this article, there may still be some hope for the missing kids!


“We haven’t been able to confirm that [the missing children] were in the vehicle, so it’s still not definitive,” Van Patten said Thursday. “But it sounds like they are a close-knit family. There would be no reason to suggest that they weren’t all together.”
However, “not finding the three of them at the scene leaves the possibility that they’re out somewhere else,” he said.


One possibility might be that the 3 missing kids and the 2 dogs were left in a remote area to set up tents and a campsite while the others went somewhere to get food or supplies. They could have gotten lost trying to find help when they realized they were stranded.

 

[Lilibet]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...f-cliff-had-troubled-home-life-neighbors-say/

From this article, there may still be some hope for the missing kids!


“We haven’t been able to confirm that [the missing children] were in the vehicle, so it’s still not definitive,” Van Patten said Thursday. “But it sounds like they are a close-knit family. There would be no reason to suggest that they weren’t all together.”
However, “not finding the three of them at the scene leaves the possibility that they’re out somewhere else,” he said.

One possibility might be that the 3 missing kids and the 2 dogs were left in a remote area to set up tents and a campsite while the others went somewhere to get food or supplies. They could have gotten lost trying to find help when they realized they were stranded.

We can certainly hope that’s the case. It’s much better than the alternative. I’d like to know if any of their camping equipment and clothing is missing from home, or did they just leave with nothing, as if they were going out to breakfast.